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Madame X: Misogyny and Ageism


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Since about Madonna hit 50 we see the return of common attacks with every new musical venture or release, so I thought I would start a thread to address those. All of them seem to be rooted in ageism and misogyny. 

The one I absolutely abhor is the trend-chasing one, which is commonly used to put her down.

Normally people just shut the conversation without even thinking that she authentically produces the music that she likes and continues to put it out there. I think that charts-wise, she is not even given a chance because of her age and very misogynistic view that she should just “pack it up.” You see that everywhere - in forums, comment sections, etc. You don't read any of those sort of very personal attacks towards the Rolling Stones, Elton John, or any other male artist in their 60s, 70s, or 80s. She however chooses to keep going, producing music that she loves, despite the constant barriers put in front of her. I do honestly believe that she loves to do what she is doing, even at 60, because she was never one to stay still. She could simply “pack it up”, enjoy her domestic life with her kids and family and enjoy her multimillion fortune and rest on her many achievements.  But no, she keeps going, she keeps producing original music, being a forward thinking pop star, who owns her body, sexuality, and strong opinions at 60, and I do believe she will be the first of its kind in that sense -- that she will open the doors for Katy, Beyonce, Gaga, any other female pop stars to still continue being pop stars in their 60s and 70s if they so wish. The other thing that happens in her case in the charts context is that people in general place her in competition with artists who are 20, 30 or even 40 years younger than her, and she clearly does not have a fair chance to do achieve that level of success commercially with her age. 

The second one is that she is collaborating with other artists because she is chasing relevancy.

With Maluma for example, you see comments saying just that. In this short clip from Beats1 interview she did, she discusses how the collaboration came to be:

So they met at the VMAs,  he sent her flowers, Maluma's manager expressed an interest in collaborating, and she start exploring what they could do together with Mirwais. To me this is quite revealing. It wasn't her that initiated contact, she wasn't chasing Reagaton sounds in particular. He expressed an interest, and because Madonna and Mirwais were already working on Madame X, world music infused album, and a potential collaboration would fit with the overall concept of the album, they pursued the collaboration. Fellow fans that don't like the music is absolutely fine, of course, but she wasn't chasing trends and per the above clip. It evolved by itself, and fitted with the project. The song, despite being latin-infused, is totally a Madonna and Mirwais song. Just pay attention to the production, the play with the vocoder, sounds very reminiscing of Ray of Light and Music, the sweet tone of her voice. This is a 100% Madonna/Mirwais product, which sets itself apart from current latin sounding songs that we hear over and over in the radio. I can see that this might not the kind of Madonna song people want, but it doesn't come down to being Madonna chasing trends.

Do you agree with this? Are there any other type of common attacks towards her that you have seen/experienced?

As fans, we must challenge this.

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I'm pretty sure those comments came from gaga/trump/beyonce fans, she is their biggest enemy, the worst are the ET canada people talking about she must retire, those old men attacked her reading only horrible comments to put her down, we must stop those people on tv, we Madonna fans are too quiet and we should do something about it

 

 

 

Edited by dario
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3 minutes ago, dario said:

I'm pretty sure those comments came from gaga/trump/beyonce fans, she is their biggest enemy, the worst are the ET canada people talking about she must retire, those old men, attacked her reading only horrible comments to put her down, we must stop those people on tv, we Madonna fans are too quiet and we should do something about it

 

 

 

i don't think they "only read" the bad comments. 

even we have to admit that they were out there. 

in spite of this i do hope the media gives her a chance this time. we shall see when the video gets released and interest peaks again

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1 minute ago, motherandfather03 said:

i don't think they "only read" the bad comments. 

even we have to admit that they were out there. 

in spite of this i do hope the media gives her a chance this time. we shall see when the video gets released and interest peaks again

Have you seen the video? they started with..... we won't listen to THAT......of course there are negative comments but they ONLY read the negative ones, I haver never seen any videos of other artists like that and I'm pretty sure there are haters everywhere but focus on that is like those guys had and agenda against her..Guy Oseary should make some calls there and protest, negative press also kill the chances of a song being a hit

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1 minute ago, dario said:

Have you seen the video? they started with..... we won't listen to THAT......of course there are negative comments but they ONLY read the negative ones, I haver never seen any videos of other artists like that and I'm pretty sure there are haters everywhere but focus on that is like those guys had and agenda against her..Guy Oseary should make some calls there and protest, negative press also kill the chances of a song being a hit

i did listen. 

 

and they didn't say that. 

 

they actually like her... did you listen?

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9 minutes ago, motherandfather03 said:

i did listen. 

 

and they didn't say that. 

 

they actually like her... did you listen?

They said in the end she is a legend bla bla but most of the time they were sarcastic and offensive, please check 1:03 he said wow we didnt play a whole of that, and a awful face...the first 20 seconds they were so stupid. If it were a gaga/swift/beyonce review like that, man fans would have been furious, Madonna fans just don't do anything, just watch the comment section people are mad

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15 years after this interview. Madonna is on her 14th album.

Edited by davejr.
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If I were an editor I’d make a feature length film of these sexist ageist clips that date back to the beginning of her career (Jane Pauley) and go til today. They think if they attack or discredit enough she will go away. I hope in my life there is a shift but I doubt it. 

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Now this stupid man felt the pressure from us M fans, this is how should be done, to attack those ageist people, the other guy with beard is not even there, I dont believe he likes the song now, he is just scare

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On 4/19/2019 at 9:22 PM, Rugbyguy said:

The fact that they had a segment devoted to reactions even tho they were negative just proves her relevance.

Yep!! Well said. 

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Think the negativity partly comes from what type of female artist she is. Don't think people attack Cher and Stevie Nicks (who are in their seventies) because they don't push boundaries or trigger people like Madonna has.

GP would probably love Madonna more if she released an Abba covers album and rely on nostalgic tours full of hits, but thankfully she's still very creative.

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17 minutes ago, dario said:

Now this stupid man felt the pressure from us M fans, this is how should be done, to attack those ageist people, the other guy with beard is not even there, I dont believe he likes the song now, he is just scare

OK.. YAY for M fans speaking out.. thank you

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On 4/19/2019 at 11:31 PM, davejr. said:

 

15 years after this interview. Madonna is on her 14th album.

 

I love this fucking woman!!!

 

She rose above his condescending questions & made a valid point: “I still have things I wanna do. I still have things I wanna say, and if people want to hear, then that’s great!”

 

It’s really as simple as that :wow:

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On 4/19/2019 at 8:31 PM, davejr. said:

 

15 years after this interview. Madonna is on her 14th album.

Those are some Game of Thrones-level comebacks from the Queen. As luck would have it, that journalist actually has also fallen from grace as he was accused of serious sexual misconduct. 

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On 4/19/2019 at 10:31 PM, davejr. said:

 

15 years after this interview. Madonna is on her 14th album.

OMG, I love this! She is so sharp and feisty. Matt Lauer is most definitely a sexist pig and he makes the perfect foil for Madonna, he just trots out the tired, flimsy arguments and she annihilates them. Brilliant.

My other favorite interview between them is from 2005 when she was promoting Lotsa De Casha. He compares her 1993 Esquire cover (with her wearing a latex bikini) with her 2005 Ladies Home Journal cover (white Chanel suit) and asks if she can still be a pop star and she says "Watch me." Classic Madonna moment in my book. And then, of course, COADF happened and she proved her point.

Btw, the word "relevant" needs to do in the trash with "reinvention." Words I am sick of hearing in conjunction with Madonna.

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Those who make the same old ageism comments (why is she wearing that) just don’t get it and never will. If someone asks “why?”, walk away. A conversation was never progressed on ignorance.

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20 hours ago, dario said:

Now this stupid man felt the pressure from us M fans, this is how should be done, to attack those ageist people, the other guy with beard is not even there, I dont believe he likes the song now, he is just scare

even here they take about how they will get in trouble for playing more of the song. 

 

I'm telling you a radio EXPLOSION is happening!!

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1 hour ago, motherandfather03 said:

even here they take about how they will get in trouble for playing more of the song. 

 

I'm telling you a radio EXPLOSION is happening!!

I was thinking he meant it would be pulled from YouTube if more of the song was played in that clip. I hope radio explosion happens though, too.

Glad they got some backlash from the original video and glad he addressed his initial dismissive reaction- that shit pissed me off right when i was riding high on the new M song.

At least in this video he read SOME positive tweets too, and justified his (wrong) opinions.

And the woman chiming in was a nice touch "MA-LU-MA- I love that!"  lol. 

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yes i'm glad they got their ass handed to them by Madonna fans (but probably just everyday listeners as well). but i still hate that show now.

is he a radio dj? i dont think he works on radio does he? the tv network cant just play all of the video is all- just what was allowed.

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I don't think it is agism/misogyny - it is much deeper than that.

There are plenty of other older successful female singers, who have been at times controversial themselves, who don't get the vitriol she does...

It simply has to do with her personality. She refuses to be boxed in; whether she is right or wrong in her approach, that confrontational attitude will make most people uncomfortable. people would rather shut u up than engage  that type of personality in conversation or civil debate about their views. thats how it's always been.  the more unconventional and less willing to conform you are the stronger the opposition and the attempts at silencing you are.

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1 hour ago, tuckeye said:

yes i'm glad they got their ass handed to them by Madonna fans (but probably just everyday listeners as well).

When they attack Madonna they attack us all.

Smash misogyny and ageism. 

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Personally one of the comments I find irritating the most is "Wow she still tours?"

Mostly it happens when say for example I decline an invite to see some irrelevant boring pricks I don't care about, and while politely declining I casually throw there that I am saving up to see Madonna possibly more than once on her next tour, by which point the wow she still tour is the kind of question that truly tests my very limited patience. Right there and then I usually reply, "Yes, she does, unlike your fucking lazy [insert name]!!!" because what they like often is people that do not have the stamina and brilliance in performance art that Madonna has, regardless of their age, which is even more telling considering all the tours M has produced since the Virgin one.

The double standards against Madonna and women in general are so ingrained in people's DNA that it will take more than a century to radically change how people judge women in society.

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