Guest ursaminorjim Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 How is his not liking Madonna or Lady Gaga "indie elitist bitterness?" Especially considering his being a huge Michael Jackson fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaacHarris Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 It's almost impossible to imagine one of her songs without thinking of the video, which isn't a good thing as an artist. Videos mean shyt at the end of the day, it's ALL about the music. But THAT statement really applies to Michael Jackson, though. His music is/ was/ will always be secondary to his Music Videos Films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest edsalas Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 She puts every motherfucker in that video to shame. Such a cool whore. I love how she shuts John Oates's mouth. Madonna's so cool!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 How is his not liking Madonna or Lady Gaga "indie elitist bitterness?" Especially considering his being a huge Michael Jackson fan? Maybe he is misogynistic and doesn't like strong/ugly women. I guess I don't need to tell you which is which of the two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_system Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 But THAT statement really applies to Michael Jackson, though. His music is/ was/ will always be secondary to his Music Videos Films. Wrong. Just think about Off The Wall, an album with pretty normal videos. Or even Thriller, only the title track had an EPIC video. Billie Jean is very much a shitty video, the live performance at Motown 25 was the real deal, but still you can't say the visuals were better than the songs. The same happens for Madonna of course, I don't think all her videos are better than the songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Topaz Scorpio Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 He said basically that Gagas songs were mind numbing and superficial. He didn't say that at all, "basically" or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_system Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Madonna wanted to be a visual artist. She never said " I want to be the best singer/musician" She doesn't see herself as a singer but as an entertainment. She knows she has not the voice of Streisand or the music ability of Paul McCartney. And she's pretty much respected in the music world. I usually go to this "indie" club and Like A Virgin is almost always part dj set. And no, it's not a gay club. And we all know she's repsected by other artists. The problem are songs/singles like Revolver, because we all know she's capable of more and she can be mainstream without being actually so mainstream. Up until Confessions she was still cool for lots of people. With Hard Candy (an album I really like and probably one of my fav) people started thinking she was doing stuff they were expecting from Britney and bitches like her. It's true that also in the 90s she did some very mainstream stuff like Bedtime Stories (but only Take A Bow, for me, was something really mainstream on that album) and You'll See/One More Chance and the whole ballad era, but all those songs sounded like a Madonna song. Some friends of mine really thought Revolver was the new single by Britney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I don't think she set out to be an artist, though. She set out to be famous. But as so often happens, when you start doing things as a means to an end, they end up becoming the end itself. Personally, I don't think it was until she hit the point where she realized she could do whatever she wanted and still be talked about that she really considered her work as her art. I mean, just look at the leap in quality from Like a Virgin to True Blue. That takes effort, and a vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_system Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Well, she wanted to be a dancer. Period. She failed and I'm sure her big fat ego was deeply hurt by it and I really believe that was the moment she decided to become fucking famous. Going out with the New York cool arty scene helped too of course. Her first album was very commercial but at the same time it was raw. She wasn't very happy about the production, only Holiday was what she wanted in terms of production (and that song is the most polished song on the album). Like A Virgin was, and still is, her most plastic/commercial album. We should remember that Rogers helped Bowie with his biggest record ever (I'm talking about sales of course) in 1983, just one year before Virgin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 No, her primary goal was always to be an ACTRESS The music career was meant to be a stepping stone toward that a la Streisand and the music rightly superseded the concurrent movie "career". Even if she was a halfway decent actress, I still think her image would massively dwarf anything else and the public still wouldn't buy her as an actress cause of the size of her celebrity. It sure would be difficult. Barbra, Bette and Cher managed it, but they're also old fashioned all round old skool entertainers, Madonna was from a different generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Really, an actress? I thought she was all about being a dancer. I mean, she went to college on a dance scholarship, auditioned for Alvin Ailey...if she was going for "actress," she sure was taking the long way 'round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_system Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Really, an actress? I thought she was all about being a dancer. I mean, she went to college on a dance scholarship, auditioned for Alvin Ailey...if she was going for "actress," she sure was taking the long way 'round. Yes. 1:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jamesshot Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 No, her primary goal was always to be an ACTRESS The music career was meant to be a stepping stone toward that a la Streisand and the music rightly superseded the concurrent movie "career". Even if she was a halfway decent actress, I still think her image would massively dwarf anything else and the public still wouldn't buy her as an actress cause of the size of her celebrity. It sure would be difficult. Barbra, Bette and Cher managed it, but they're also old fashioned all round old skool entertainers, Madonna was from a different generation. I have always contended this is the primary reason some in the music industry resent her and have had a hard time accepting that she is a genuinely talented musical artist. It galls them she never set out to be in music, that it was just a stepping stone yet she achieved the greatest success of just about anyone in this genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I have always contended this is the primary reason some in the music industry resent her and have had a hard time accepting that she is a genuinely talented musical artist. It galls them she never set out to be in music, that it was just a stepping stone yet she achieved the greatest success of just about anyone in this genre. Well Madonna & videos is kinda like the chicken or the egg imo. It's through people like her that it became THE FORMAT. To try & decide wether it transcended the music or not is completely superluous in terms of her being a proper artist. In rock 'n roll 1st there was radio, then there was video ,and she succeeded in incorporating the music in a new proper art form plain & simple. When people listen to TIC I don't think they automatically consider the videos..we've been hearing these songs for 20 years now in elevators, pubs, bars, malls, clubs & radio stations..they're omnipresent in our culture & that's why they are bonafide classics. Which isn't 2 say video didn't play a part in the intitial succes of certain songs. Now wether she 'set out' 2 b an artist or not doesn't really mean anything, she was so informed by what I consider her 'New York Education'..the whole cross fertilization of disco, punk, hiphop, art & her life as a dancer turned her into a female baby Bowie 4 the 80's. Of course many years later when she became her own brand (cynical) people started seeing it as pure corporate image manipulation. But 4 the most part it had integrity & I don't care what anyone says. 'I don't care what anyone says, there's something valid & artistic about a Lionel Richie song.'- Madonna, 1985. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Madonna wanted to be a dancer until she realised she wanted the whole world to hear her thoughts. Then she realised that music was the only universal language world wide. MU-SIC, MAKES THE PEOPLE, COME TOGETHER!!! YEAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 He didn't say that at all, "basically" or otherwise. I think you will find that he did. It's not hard to see, but if you re read it and still can't find it then I will be happy to point it out for you. Jeez, the Gaga fans have like Gaga-goggles, which totally block reality from their vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip The Switch Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 She wanted to be a boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 See...She get's what she wants. *snaps fingers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Vavance Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 mhmm, I agree with loomer about the actress part, it was evident, it was her primary goal in life I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 NO WAY! She just did it for kicks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 mhmm, I agree with loomer about the actress part, it was evident, it was her primary goal in life I think Then why does she herself say she only ever wanted to be a dancer? Unless she was pretending the entire time. Which is more than unlikely because she's a terrible actress. Oh, the conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_system Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Then why does she herself say she only ever wanted to be a dancer? Unless she was pretending the entire time. Which is more than unlikely because she's a terrible actress. Oh, the conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Topaz Scorpio Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I think you will find that he did. It's not hard to see, but if you re read it and still can't find it then I will be happy to point it out for you. Jeez, the Gaga fans have like Gaga-goggles, which totally block reality from their vision. The insanity disguised as text that you like to call posts are not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Madonna did not set out with the primary goal of becoming an actress. In what way is that even slightly obvious from her early days in New York? ...Truly the most ludicrous thing I've ever read on here. She knew she wanted to be in the arts, she just didn't know what path that was gonna take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 'I don't care what anyone says, there's something valid & artistic about a Lionel Richie song.'- Madonna, 1985. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missy bi_tch Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 he just lost respect...for being a michelle fan and all that peace loving, children loving turned molestation acts arent superficial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 The insanity disguised as text that you like to call posts are not reality. Take those Gaga Goggles off and you will see the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 I didn't just pluck that out of thin air. And I wouldn't necessarily take her word on anything cause as we all know she's the Queen Of CAPRICE and changes her mind/contradicts herself at the drop of a hat as she evolves. Technically she started off wanting to be a dancer, yes... but she found the competition too tough and it too hard work did she not, even though she was brilliant and it's clearly her greatest natural talent. But remember the plays she starred in at high school? From Encyclopedia Madonnica: acting: Will she ever give it up? To the disappointment of some filmgoers and critics, the answer is an emphatic "No!" Madonna has been involved in acting far longer than she has in singing, and it's obvious she enjoys the performance aspect of her music than the actual belting. Madonna starred in plays in high school, and from her earliest interviews has referred to herself as an actress. She is not a singer who tried her hand at acting (like Elvis, Prince, Michael Jackson, or Diana Ross) but an actress whose singing career has rightfully superseded her acting career. Madonna's first agent, Camille Barbone, sent her off to acting lessons with coach Mira Rostova, who hated Madonna's guts at first sight. After only one session, their association was dissolved. "This girl will never be an actress," Rostova spat. "She is too vulgar and thinks she knows it all. Besides, I do not like her." [it continues with some VERY optimistic assesments of her acting abilities, saying she was dreadful in Shanghai Surprise and not so hot in Body of Evidence, yet says her best work on film was in Dick Tracy and Dangerous Game Although the book was published in 1995, pre-Evita and most of her celluloid atrocities.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 He has a point The most valid criticism of her is the image overshadowed the music and she's all about marketing and self promotion. It's almost impossible to imagine one of her songs without thinking of the video, which isn't a good thing as an artist. Videos mean shyt at the end of the day, it's ALL about the music. Since she's the best video artist ever (though not risk taking like Bjork) it doesn't matter. But it's a real shame that she never got the respect she deserved cause of her focus on image and wanting to be a movie star. She sort of achieved her movie star dream through the video medium at least. It's the same as how Lady Gaga's videos and costumes overshadow the music. The same can be said for Michael Jackson anyway. And then on top of that you have the controversy about his personal life that overshadowed everything. So I don't see what Michael Gondry's point is. Maybe he just doesn't really like Madonna's music but liked some of her music videos? MJ had to die before people really appreciated the actual music again. And even then, there was a huge focus on music videos and live performance. I don't see anything wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 It's the same as how Lady Gaga's videos and costumes overshadow the music. The same can be said for Michael Jackson anyway. And then on top of that you have the controversy about his personal life that overshadowed everything. So I don't see what Michael Gondry's point is. Maybe he just doesn't really like Madonna's music but liked some of her music videos? MJ had to die before people really appreciated the actual music again. And even then, there was a huge focus on music videos and live performance. I don't see anything wrong with that. That's putting it mildly! It ultimately killed him. Neither Jackson or his fans were ever able to find closure, which makes this tragic. Whereas convicted paedophile Roman Polanski was able to do what he wanted and win an Oscar. But those were different times. I do believe though that regardless of what really happened, like Polanski, that Jackson's contribution to art and pop culture and legendary status was too strong to simply erase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts