Darren Hayes Comments On Revolver

[fak]

I think your right. Im defo in team COADF.

I think in a way we are both biased to an extent. I did not want a COADF part 2 but im guessing anything could have been better than HC, IMO. i dont tink its about being a dance or "urban"album. I dont listen to much music that sounds like COADF. However, I think its a brilliant album. i dont care if HC is Timbaland produced. I just think its a poor, shite album which I would expect from Kylie, Mariah - quality (not necessarily sound) wise. It is a very poor effort for someone who has showed so much talent. i can understand nothingfails what he means by he would have expected it from someone else. for Mariah it would be innovative i guess.

Personally i dont think many people actually like HC, and that a few LOONS over glorify it because it is the one album which has received so much flak from Madonna fans themselves. So a few loons overglorify it just to save face.

it seems to me that there are 2 teams

one that loves HC

and the other worships COADF

thank god I like BOTH!!

[funkydita]

Personally i dont think many people actually like HC, and that a few LOONS over glorify it because it is the one album which has received so much flak from Madonna fans themselves. So a few loons overglorify it just to save face.

Maybe they just like it? You know, horses for courses and all that.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Personally i dont think many people actually like HC, and that a few LOONS over glorify it because it is the one album which has received so much flak from Madonna fans themselves. So a few loons overglorify it just to save face.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but...you're wrong. I genuinely think it's her best album in ages, and I hardly qualify for "loon" status.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

"She's doing shit that artists young enough to be her children are doing"

The exact same thing could be said about Mariah,Janet and all the other 40+ artists.

Yes, and people on this very board attack Mariah and Janet all the time for this very thing. If Mariah and Janet look pathetic, why is Madonna off limits doing the same thing?

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Yes, of course, 2005 was POSITIVELY AWASH with Miley Cyrus, Lizzie Macguire and Lindsay Lohan's Moroder-esque disco odysseys exploring the meaning of spirituality and fame.

The sad truth is that Hard Candy was simply a poor album. It doesn't matter now how Madonna got there, because it's too late for anything to be done. The final result is a joyless, workmanlike, over-produced embarrassing mess.

right, the material just wasn't that great, that's the problem. I don't care how many people I piss off for having an opinion, but I still think if Mariah or Janet had put the very thing out, people would still be ripping on it a year later, hell look how long it took people to finally lay off Mariah's YouTube reference in Touch My Body. But yet Madonna is "having fun"? Haven't you ever stopped to think maybe Mariah and Janet are having fun as well when they're doing albums that are well age-inappropriate and trying to appeal to the children of those who were fans from the start?

HC is a poor album and no debating is going to erase that point. Candy Shop, Devil Wouldn't Recognize You and Incredible are three of the worst songs Madonna's done in her entire career IMO. The album is shit even if it was a dance album with that material.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

HC is a poor album and no debating is going to erase that point. Candy Shop, Devil Wouldn't Recognize You and Incredible are three of the worst songs Madonna's done in her entire career IMO. The album is shit even if it was a dance album with that material.

Ha! I'd pick those as three of the best songs she's done this decade, especially "Candy shop."

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Ha! I'd pick those as three of the best songs she's done this decade, especially "Candy shop."

I would like Candy Shop better if it actually went someplace, I like minimalistic music but this song being a huge opening track/tour opener had a lot of unused potential. I hate Devil because I've already heard Justin sing the same song several times better (What Goes Around, Cry Me A River).

[Lucky guy]

My worst thought about Hard Candy, the one even I don't like to think too much. Is that Hard Candy was actually worse for Madonna's involvement in the project. That Timbaland and Pharrell would have actually produced a better album without her there. As a fan, it's a thought that I find upsetting.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

I would like Candy Shop better if it actually went someplace, I like minimalistic music but this song being a huge opening track/tour opener had a lot of unused potential.

See, that's exactly what I love about it - it's propulsive and static. It's all angles and shapes and surface tension and is just so fucking cool.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

Oh come on, M fans are prone to accepting things when it comes to her but not when it comes to others. When Madonna spreads her legs on the HC cover it's "cool", if Janet does it, it's sad. If Madonna is a rude bitch to someone, it's cool, but if Xtina does it she's "nasty and unlikable". Fandom is very blinding.

Not that i agree with all that, just saying. There's lots of double standards with M fans, and the argument "yeah but Madonna pulls it off" which fans do 24/7 is a useless one. For every FAN who thinks she does a good job of something, there's about 50 other CASUAL fans who think it's ridiculous

[Pabl0114]

HC is a poor album and no debating is going to erase that point. Candy Shop, Devil Wouldn't Recognize You and Incredible are three of the worst songs Madonna's done in her entire career IMO. The album is shit even if it was a dance album with that material.

hush ur mouth! Incredible is E V E R Y T H I N G.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Oh come on, M fans are prone to accepting things when it comes to her but not when it comes to others. When Madonna spreads her legs on the HC cover it's "cool", if Janet does it, it's sad. If Madonna is a rude bitch to someone, it's cool, but if Xtina does it she's "nasty and unlikable". Fandom is very blinding.

Not that i agree with all that, just saying. There's lots of double standards with M fans, and the argument "yeah but Madonna pulls it off" which fans do 24/7 is a useless one. For every FAN who thinks she does a good job of something, there's about 50 other CASUAL fans who think it's ridiculous

true. I don't get why Janet is sad and pathetic for trying to appeal to Rihanna's audience because Janet's over 40 and she was making hit records before Rihanna was born, but yet Madonna working with Justin Timberlake, an artist who was 2 years old and in diapers when "Madonna" was released is totally different? I like Justin, but he should be taking tips from Madonna, not giving tips to her, she's the one who was a superstar before he was even in kindergarten.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

I don't mind if she works with people who are younger than her. She's in her 50's now, most/if not all of the people she will be working with from now on will most likely be young enough to be her kids. I just thought she could have gone for some fresher producers for the album, that's all. She wanted a current sounding album, but she opted for a sound 50 other people have their hands on. I just don't think she has to be SO obvious, she's better than that. The final result was cool though, HC is a fun listen.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

...I like Justin, but he should be taking tips from Madonna, not giving tips to her, she's the one who was a superstar before he was even in kindergarten.

Since when does age have anything to do with ability, though?

I'm not saying that she didn't want to make a larger commercial splash with her choices of collaborators on this last album, or even that that wasn't a primary consideration in hiring them on. But isn't it also possible that she chose them because she likes their work?

[MaddysMuff]

Since when does age have anything to do with ability, though?

I'm not saying that she didn't want to make a larger commercial splash with her choices of collaborators on this last album, or even that that wasn't a primary consideration in hiring them on. But isn't it also possible that she chose them because she likes their work?

I do think it's because she likes their work. Also, they've been the "go to" producers for those seeking hits for quite some time. And she didn't know what to do creatively after "Confessions". I already mentioned the latter the other week, but those 3 factors, I believe, resulted in "Hard Candy".

[hesser]

true. I don't get why Janet is sad and pathetic for trying to appeal to Rihanna's audience because Janet's over 40 and she was making hit records before Rihanna was born, but yet Madonna working with Justin Timberlake, an artist who was 2 years old and in diapers when "Madonna" was released is totally different? I like Justin, but he should be taking tips from Madonna, not giving tips to her, she's the one who was a superstar before he was even in kindergarten.

Who cares how old he was when the MADONNA album came out? Madonna's 1st album didnt come out yesterday and Timberlake is nearing 30. HC IS THE BEST ALBUM OF MADONNA'S CAREER. Heads & teails better than COADF!

Edited May 22, 2009 by hesser

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Since when does age have anything to do with ability, though?

I'm not saying that she didn't want to make a larger commercial splash with her choices of collaborators on this last album, or even that that wasn't a primary consideration in hiring them on. But isn't it also possible that she chose them because she likes their work?

well, it does disgust me that radio jumped on 4 Minutes because of Justin, not Madonna. Technically, Madonna's the one who has been a megastar for 25 years, 25 years ago Justin was probably wearing Ghostbusters pajamas. IMO, she should have the upper hand yet Justin's more attractive to programmers than she is, and I see something wrong with that because I believe a large body of work should be more important than having one really big album recently. Madonna was breaking rules when Justin's mom was still changing his diapers, radio shouldn't have jumped on 4 Mins because Madonna worked with Justin, but because Justin had the privilege to work with Madonna.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Who cares how old he was when the MADONNA album came out? Madonna's 1st album didnt come out yesterday and Timberlake is nearing 30. HC IS THE BEST ALBUM OF MADONNA'S CAREER. Heads & teails better than COADF!

HC is the best album of her career? Seriously? You think it's better than ROL or LAP? Lemme guess, is 20 Y.O. Janet's best album too?

[hesser]

OK I won't argue it being better than LAP. Second best of her career.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

well, it does disgust me that radio jumped on 4 Minutes because of Justin, not Madonna. Technically, Madonna's the one who has been a megastar for 25 years, 25 years ago Justin was probably wearing Ghostbusters pajamas. IMO, she should have the upper hand yet Justin's more attractive to programmers than she is, and I see something wrong with that because I believe a large body of work should be more important than having one really big album recently. Madonna was breaking rules when Justin's mom was still changing his diapers, radio shouldn't have jumped on 4 Mins because Madonna worked with Justin, but because Justin had the privilege to work with Madonna.

Radio shouldn't have jumped on "4 minutes" period, though.

But you're thinking of this the wrong way. It's more to do with radio programmers thinking age has something to do with relatability for their audiences. Ergo, a handsome young pop star is more enticing than an older pop legend. Justin Timberlake is simply more marketable than Madonna is.

Music has nothing to do with it at all, unfortunately.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Radio shouldn't have jumped on "4 minutes" period, though.

But you're thinking of this the wrong way. It's more to do with radio programmers thinking age has something to do with relatability for their audiences. Ergo, a handsome young pop star is more enticing than an older pop legend. Justin Timberlake is simply more marketable than Madonna is.

Music has nothing to do with it at all, unfortunately.

And sadly the ageist BS shows how out of touch programmers are. Bob Dylan hasn't had a top 40 hit in 30 years and today he can sell more albums than Flo Rida can with a #1 blockbuster.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Yeah, but...Madonna is hardly Bob Dylan.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Yeah, but...Madonna is hardly Bob Dylan.

well, she can sell more than a lot of "hot" artists even without airplay. Look at how COADF outsold Shakira's album from the same time even though Hips Don't Lie reached ten times the audience Hung Up got.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Well, I think we're approaching the value of the work in different terms. I don't really place much stock in sales and charts and evidence of popularity. I'm more about the quality of the music.

[coco]

Oh come on, M fans are prone to accepting things when it comes to her but not when it comes to others. When Madonna spreads her legs on the HC cover it's "cool", if Janet does it, it's sad. If Madonna is a rude bitch to someone, it's cool, but if Xtina does it she's "nasty and unlikable". Fandom is very blinding.

Not that i agree with all that, just saying. There's lots of double standards with M fans, and the argument "yeah but Madonna pulls it off" which fans do 24/7 is a useless one. For every FAN who thinks she does a good job of something, there's about 50 other CASUAL fans who think it's ridiculous

actually

m fans happen to be the most overcritical pessimistic bunch

compared to what i've seen at brit/janet/mimi boards

[Kurt420]

Gwen said her SE album was "like a xerox" of early Madonna songs. So by "ripping off" Gwen is Madonna actually ripping herself off?

Also I LOVE COADF and it is my favorite album from M this decade. I just like the atmosphere of it. I also love HC too, it's a totally different vibe than her other albums this decade. That's what is cool about her. Each album is different. Mariah and Janet have been making slight variations of the same album for 10+ years. And I LOVE Janet too. Own every album by her except 20 Y.O. I also own E=MC2 and I'm STILL trying to find the song on there that Madonna ripped off for HC.....HELP!!

If Madonna is still having Timbo and Timber do her beats in 10 years I could understand the aggression toward HC. But as of right now. It's JUST ANOTHER ERA....WHY the dramatics from her diehards who act as if Madonna murdered their mother by GOD FORBID wanting to work with the HOT producer of the moment.

Sorry....it's just all so overdramatic and whiny to me. Boo hoo....Madonna stepped out of the little "box" you placed her in. WAH WAH. To quote a brilliant songsman "Cry Me A River". It's not about the HC fans not accepting that people don't like the album....I don't think anybody truly gives a fuck what anybody else in here chooses to listen to. But why act like a bunch of little Roger Friedmans over this?? It's not that serious. The HC dissenters GENERALLY sound like longtime Madonna detractors.

[peter]

Gwen said her SE album was "like a xerox" of early Madonna songs. So by "ripping off" Gwen is Madonna actually ripping herself off?

Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned "The Real Thing" earlier -- that some fans claimed Gwen was being ripped off -- because the "don't go away / want you to stay" line sounds an awful lot like "holiday / celebrate" to me. I mean, I love Gwen and I don't see anything wrong with her solo efforts. (I like some of her work on the albums better than others -- but I still love Gwen.) So yeah, to say Madonna ripped off "The Real Thing" is kind of like saying she ripped off "Holiday." The burbling synth line is pretty similar, too. But it's cool -- Gwen admitted readily Madonna's sound was an influence. And Madonna admitted she borrowed the tick tock from Gwen for "Hung Up" -- through Stuart, who was remixing the track for Gwen and working with Madonna in the studio at the time. No great shakes. It's all fun pop music. There's bound to be some borrowing going on.

I haven't read this whole thread because I'm not going to get drawn into a COADF vs. HC argument. It just will never end. I'm in the "I like both" camp.

I will defend "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" though... Lyrically, it's more sophisticated/developed than some of the other tracks on HC. And just because the production sounds similar to a few other songs (which were popular, by the way) -- I don't get it. I still think the dark and brooding lyrics lend the track a gravitas that, in my opinion, is lacking from the tracks some claim "Devil..." is knocking off. I mean, I'd have to go back and listen to "Cry Me a River" and "What Goes Around..." because I was never really fond of those songs, despite the fact that radio loved them -- but I really think M's is different enough to stand on its own merits. Like she said about the song herself, I like the idea of someone being more clever than the devil. (And not just the person Madonna's singing to -- but she herself as the singer is more clever than the devil, too. Because she's able to see through the subject's disguise, too, even though the devil can't. It's just an intriguing idea -- that someone in her life gets away with mistreating and her comes out smiling and smelling like roses. Wonder who that could be? Hmm... If it's Sean -- or a similarly dark relationship -- I'd say that has considerably more trauma/drama to it than the Britney-Justin teen romance break-up that inspired "Cry Me a River," for example.)

I can understand complaining about "Incredible" -- and "Candy Shop" is an acquired taste. So I can understand that -- but I don't get slamming "Devil..." Even if you don't care for the production, that is a solidly crafted song. (It can be salvaged from the production, if you don't like it, I guess is all I'm trying to say.)

[Guest blueferris]

yea madge . . . keep away from that SCARY SCARY "black" music

made by those SCARY SCARY black ppl. . .

thats what it all boils down 2.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

yea madge . . . keep away from that SCARY SCARY "black" music

made by those SCARY SCARY black ppl. . .

thats what it all boils down 2.

and here comes someone with the race card.

You talk about how bad dance music is and how horrific COADF is, shall I assume your hatred for the album stems from issues with gay white Europeans?

I've already namedropped about 30 black artists I like, and I also like white artists such Justin Timberlake and Nelly Furtado doing r&bish music (and George Michael's best music was when he was courting the r&b crowd IMO), so try again instead of thinking it all boils down to race. Why again do I not want Coldplay to record a dance album? Am I self-homophobic and don't want SCARY SCARY "gay" music from them?

[Kurt420]

Another thing I recall from a few years back......when Nelly Furtado's album came out people were saying she "sold out" after the brilliance of her first 2 albums by hooking up with Timbo. Nelly going from Folklore to Loose seems far less organic, forced and obvious than Madonna going from making a Euro influenced DANCE album to a US influenced DANCE album. The type of music on HC IS dance music right now in the US.