Darren Hayes Comments On Revolver

[acko]

I think it feels more like Madonna than the two that came before it, certainly. But the scenario you described sounds like most of Madonna's albums, really. I mean, the only album I can say for sure that she had a large hand in writing was American Life.

No it sounds like the perception of some male chauvinist rock critic.

But from what we know it's closer 2 the truth 4 HC than any other Madonna

album....I mean if Nile Rogers is 2 b beleived she didn't even do that

4 Like A Virgin.. as 4 the writing process I have no reason 2 disagree

with Mirwaïs, Orbit or Price..since I wasn't there..

[Guest Danny86]

You are forgetting that,by the late 80s,Donna's career was in serious trouble.She was dropped by Geffen after a string of flop albums.In 1987,she had to cancel a planned tour because nobody was interested.Working with SAW breathed new life into her career.It brought her back into the Top 10 ("This Time I Know It's For Real") and was well-received by the public.

The point I'm making is,artists sometimes do things like this because they HAVE to.They gotta survive somehow.You claim that APAT is a faceless SAW album,but where were you when she released All Systems Go and Cats Without Claws? Those albums flopped big time.Nobody bought those.

The situation with Madonna is much different.Her career has always been in fine shape.But as was the case with Donna,it was nice to see her reach the Top 10 with a big hit ("4 Minutes").That's her most successful single in America since "Vogue".Despite what many artists say,I truly believe that they're always trying to get a "hit".

Not only that, but Donna's "hit years" were not even a decade long and her SAW single was her first Gold certification in nearly 10 years! Also, the album only went to #53 and didn't even get a certification. The whole situation is completely different, I don't see the obsession to separate pop artists' careers into "artistic music" and "desperate for a hit" periods and base your taste on that. I agree with you that pop artists are always out to get a hit, Madonna admitted this several times in her career. It should be about whether you enjoy the song or not, instead of putting it into boxes/genres and condemn their intentions. It's also not impossible to make cool stuff with "established hitmakers", and I think comparing Timbaland and The Neptunes to SAW should not go any further than chart positions and sales.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

No it sounds like the perception of some male chauvinist rock critic.

Sorry, no. And sexism has nothing to with it! Just because Madonna's strengths lie in her abilities as a coordinator and a collaborator doesn't lessen her stature as a musical force. But she's a performer first and foremost, a musician second.

[acko]

Sorry, no. And sexism has nothing to with it! Just because Madonna's strengths lie in her abilities as a coordinator and a collaborator doesn't lessen her stature as a musical force. But she's a performer first and foremost, a musician second.

Okay..this is something different compared 2 ur previous insinuation...

But as far as the general public is concerned sexism has everything 2 do with it.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

You're absolutely right. And I'm sorry I wasn't clearer initially, my bad.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

^Uhm, no I didn't call you a racist, so no need for the language. I just pointed out that it's weird that you consider Madonna a faceless product when she worked with hitmakers, who also happened to give her urban/black music influences (David Foster is always forgotten in this case by the way).

As Kurt pointed out, it's just weird that if you enjoy other artists doing that kinda music, you're upset when Madonna does it the same, like you decide to put everyone in a box, but while most likely you'd enjoy Mariah and co doing music similiar to Madonna, you think it's "regression" if Madonna does urban. By the way, HC has some Prince influences, yet you always pick on only the comparison to Justin's ballads, as if most of the 12 songs were interchangeable, while they are not.

I still don't see how Mariah or Beyonce could have recorded HC in their sleep, they work with JD, The Dream, Swizz Beats, Darkchild etc, yet you present it like Timbaland and The Neptunes were carbon copies of those producers, while they are very different. Same for The Sweet Escape comparisons, all the tracks Pharrell did on it are ENTIRELY different fro what he did on HC, I actually listened to it a while ago and was SHOCKED how lame stuff he did there in the form of "Wind It Up" or "Orange County Girl". HC also has nothing as minimalist as "Yummy" either.

well, why does it seem to bother you so much that I don't like the album? You always single me out when it comes to people disliking the album, between here and The Other Shore, I know dozens of people who are outspoken that they think HC is a piece of crap. But yet I'm the only one you single out when there's been five or six other people here who have stated they think the album is a flaming turd on this thread. HC is an album that would be long forgotten if it wasn't Madonna and if Mariah or Janet put lyrics out like "my sugar is raw" and "don't pretend you're not hungry", people here would never stop making fun of it. But because it's Madonna, it's automatically a great album?

I'm not alone here in disliking the album so why am I the one who is singled out when Fak and several others here have said the same thing?

[Guest nothingfails0603]

You are forgetting that,by the late 80s,Donna's career was in serious trouble.She was dropped by Geffen after a string of flop albums.In 1987,she had to cancel a planned tour because nobody was interested.Working with SAW breathed new life into her career.It brought her back into the Top 10 ("This Time I Know It's For Real") and was well-received by the public.

The point I'm making is,artists sometimes do things like this because they HAVE to.They gotta survive somehow.You claim that APAT is a faceless SAW album,but where were you when she released All Systems Go and Cats Without Claws? Those albums flopped big time.Nobody bought those.

The situation with Madonna is much different.Her career has always been in fine shape.But as was the case with Donna,it was nice to see her reach the Top 10 with a big hit ("4 Minutes").That's her most successful single in America since "Vogue".Despite what many artists say,I truly believe that they're always trying to get a "hit".

Well, I dunno if you're UK or US, but US radio wouldn't touch AL or COADF with a ten foot pole. 4 Minutes for Madonna was as blatant an attempt to get back into the good graces of radio stations as This Time I Know It's For Real was for Donna. Hell, There Goes My Baby off Cats Without Claws fared better than anything off AL here (not counting DAD). I actually like APAT because Donna's having fun there, but Breakaway excepted, there's nothing on there that Kylie, Sinitta, Sonia or anyone else working with SAW in 1989 couldn't have done. Much like how a dozen other r&b divas could've done Candy Shop, Spanish Lesson and Devil Wouldn't Recognize You.

If you're in Europe, you wouldn't understand because Madonna's farts still guarantee big airplay, but US radio shunned AL and COADF and HC was the way to go if she ever expected another airplay smash in her home country.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Not only that, but Donna's "hit years" were not even a decade long and her SAW single was her first Gold certification in nearly 10 years! Also, the album only went to #53 and didn't even get a certification. The whole situation is completely different, I don't see the obsession to separate pop artists' careers into "artistic music" and "desperate for a hit" periods and base your taste on that. I agree with you that pop artists are always out to get a hit, Madonna admitted this several times in her career. It should be about whether you enjoy the song or not, instead of putting it into boxes/genres and condemn their intentions. It's also not impossible to make cool stuff with "established hitmakers", and I think comparing Timbaland and The Neptunes to SAW should not go any further than chart positions and sales.

Donna's hit years were pretty close to a decade. Love To Love You Baby was 1975 and She Works Hard was 1983. In between them, 1981 (a year she recorded an album that was shelved until 1996) was the only year she didn't have a big hit in between, so that was a nice eight year career that withstood the death of disco. The homophobia rumor probably kept her from doing better for the rest of the 80's, pretty much every interview she gave around 1989 had her talking about how she's not homophobic, etc...

I think Timbaland's beats could be compared to SAW. There's certain things (especially in 4 Minutes and Devil... you even hear it in the beats for Miles Away) that completely reek of Timbaland and you could tell it was him even if you didn't know, just like how SAW had certain things that were common in all their productions.

[Kurt420]

Donna's hit years were pretty close to a decade. Love To Love You Baby was 1975 and She Works Hard was 1983. In between them, 1981 (a year she recorded an album that was shelved until 1996) was the only year she didn't have a big hit in between, so that was a nice eight year career that withstood the death of disco. The homophobia rumor probably kept her from doing better for the rest of the 80's, pretty much every interview she gave around 1989 had her talking about how she's not homophobic, etc...

I think Timbaland's beats could be compared to SAW. There's certain things (especially in 4 Minutes and Devil... you even hear it in the beats for Miles Away) that completely reek of Timbaland and you could tell it was him even if you didn't know, just like how SAW had certain things that were common in all their productions.

I understand you hate HC and love Loose, FS/LS and other Timbo collabs with other artists over the years. So if you admittedly LOVE that sound, why is it so awful when it pops up on a Madonna album? It would SEEM that when a producer who's sound you love pairs up with one of your favorite artists that it would be a match made in heaven. I'm not trying to pick seriously....but it just comes across that you hate HC simply because it shares production similarities with albums you're already familiar with and the fact that anybody who turns on the radio on their daily commute to work would be able to point out "hey that's a Timbo song".....and honestly that's how many fans' opinions of the album come across. It seems to have less to do with the quality of the music and more with the familiarity of the production and the fact that it's MADONNA singing on it. And some feel Madonna is always supposed to "stand out" from the Top 40 crowd, not quietly blend in as was the case with 4M. It seems like it's ok for her to "ripoff" people as long as that sound isn't what's hot on the US radio airwaves at the time of the "ripoff". Otherwise you should have the problem of Madonna sounding like "this person and that person" with every album she has released. Sure finding a WO album in '98 or a Mirwais album in 2000 to hear what she "ripped off" on ROL and Music may not be as easy as simply turning on the radio in '94 or '08 to hear the songs she 'ripped off" on BS and HC. Either way though, if that is truly the big gripe about HC.....that it's a ripoff and she's copying others..... is a ripoff not a ripoff any which way you cut it?

I mean is it officially a "ripoff" only when the sound is hugely popular on the radio?? I just don't understand all of these rules some fans put in place for music. Quite frankly it's all a bit odd to me. I know I'm the loon and all but geez.....all of these regulations sound far loonier than myself and others genuinely enjoying a current sounding Madonna album and not worrying that a drum beat in 4M sounds like a drum beat on Glow by Nelly F or the straws some were grasping at a while back saying Miles Away is a ripoff of Gwens Real Thing.....when it's ONE LINE....."you're a salty water ocean wave...." is SLIGHTLY reminiscent of the way she sings "I just woke up from a fuzzy dream.." in MA. I mean some of you just can't be serious with this shit right?

[Guest Danny86]

^The thing is, Madonna violated those "rules" a lot of times in the past already, just that they happened in so called golden eras and she gets a free pass. First of, how was Madonna channeling a new sound with her first 3 albums? I understand that "La Isla Bonita" was kinda new with its Spanish/Latin theme, but other than that? Was the drums and synths of "Papa Don't Preach" or "Open Your Heart" that unique in the mid-80s? Or how she basically ripped off herself when recording WTG soundtrack? And couldn't Cyndi Lauper or God knows what other female back then record the first 3 Madonna albums anyway?

When LAP came out, the use of choir was a very common thing, first there was David Bowie in 1986 who had the song "Underground" (which was supposedly the main inspiration for "LAP"), then MJ's "Man In The Mirror" and "The Living Years" by Mike & The Mechanics, both #1 hits on the Hot 100, the latter hitting the top just a couple of weeks before "LAP". But "LAP" is the best song ever, so it doesn't matter if it's not original, right? The rest of LAP was either nods to Sly & The Family Stone, Beatles or 60s stuff, either piano ballads, that definitely ranked her above Tiffany, Debbie, Paula, Kylie etc, but in terms of "not sounding like Top 40", I don't think so.

Erotica had some newer sounds, but she did not release "Secret Garden" or "Where Life Begins" as singles, but she did release "Deeper And Deeper" which might be one of her laziest singles ever when it comes to production and as someone else already pointed out, Shep's sound was already a very common thing back then, but Madonna was rehashing her own sound already (which not happened with COADF or HC). Then "Rain" was compared to girl group Wilson Phillips as well...

I guess this will be done each time she releases a new album (not talking about you now, nothingfails), instead of just admitting that they do not like the music and move on (what some fans DID here actually), they will try to come up with excuses why Madonna does not match *their* expectations and as Kurt says, that is actually the more loony behavior, why can't it be just take it or leave it instead of creating some image of Madonna and ridicule those who like her stuff that does not match those rules?

It doesn't bother me if somebody doesn't like HC (like how it shouldn't bother anyone that I dislike Erotica), just all these assumptions and the way how her past is put on a pedestal but anything she does now is bashed, and that's like the general way among her hardcore fans. The same thing will happen with "Revolver" when her version is out, coupled with "oh now she doesn't even care enough to write her own songs, she's past it"...

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I understand you hate HC and love Loose, FS/LS and other Timbo collabs with other artists over the years. So if you admittedly LOVE that sound, why is it so awful when it pops up on a Madonna album? It would SEEM that when a producer who's sound you love pairs up with one of your favorite artists that it would be a match made in heaven. I'm not trying to pick seriously....but it just comes across that you hate HC simply because it shares production similarities with albums you're already familiar with and the fact that anybody who turns on the radio on their daily commute to work would be able to point out "hey that's a Timbo song".....and honestly that's how many fans' opinions of the album come across. It seems to have less to do with the quality of the music and more with the familiarity of the production and the fact that it's MADONNA singing on it. And some feel Madonna is always supposed to "stand out" from the Top 40 crowd, not quietly blend in as was the case with 4M. It seems like it's ok for her to "ripoff" people as long as that sound isn't what's hot on the US radio airwaves at the time of the "ripoff". Otherwise you should have the problem of Madonna sounding like "this person and that person" with every album she has released. Sure finding a WO album in '98 or a Mirwais album in 2000 to hear what she "ripped off" on ROL and Music may not be as easy as simply turning on the radio in '94 or '08 to hear the songs she 'ripped off" on BS and HC. Either way though, if that is truly the big gripe about HC.....that it's a ripoff and she's copying others..... is a ripoff not a ripoff any which way you cut it?

Hmm, since you demand the answer. I don't like that sound for Madonna, she's not a convincing r&b artist to me (before some older fans point out she was r&b at the start... r&b in 1983 and r&b in 2009 are two totally different genres), especially when she uses beats that 50 other artists used before. I love electronic dance music, but I certainly wouldn't want a dance album by Coldplay or R.E.M., and lord knows U2's attempts at electronic music were patchy and forgettable at best. I love disco music and I love Elton John, but Elton's disco album from 1979 was a musical abomination because they don't fit. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Plus, the sound was FRESH with Loose and FS/LS, those albums have been cloned by everyone in the past 2 1/2 years and Madonna was one of the last to do so, and coming from someone who used to set the trends, following the trends is beneath her. She's doing shit that artists young enough to be her children are doing. Justin was 25 when he did FS/LS, Madonna was 49 when she did Hard Candy. I am all about older artists making music (and IMO, Madonna isn't all that old) but what's appropriate for Justin isn't quite the same for Madge.

The reason I'm probably so harsh on HC is because it's Madonna, if this was some other r&b diva, I might've enjoyed the album better. But Madonna, at least in the past decade, kept setting such high standards for herself and ROL, Music, AL and COADF were my #1 albums for their given years, and this album was just "okay" and there were a lot of other albums last year I liked better, and that just felt weird because I've become accustomed to Madonna's album being my fave of the given year and playing it to death.

[Guest rocketman]

i love darren hayes

but he is wrong

Revolver would be a huge hit for M

hell if M doesnt want it maybe Adam Lambert can do it..... hehehe

[Guest Danny86]

Plus, the sound was FRESH with Loose and FS/LS, those albums have been cloned by everyone in the past 2 1/2 years and Madonna was one of the last to do so, and coming from someone who used to set the trends, following the trends is beneath her. She's doing shit that artists young enough to be her children are doing. Justin was 25 when he did FS/LS, Madonna was 49 when she did Hard Candy. I am all about older artists making music (and IMO, Madonna isn't all that old) but what's appropriate for Justin isn't quite the same for Madge.

You're way too exaggerating it. Nobody denies that the Timbaland sound was very prominent in 2006-2007 but mostly it was limited to those 2 albums and his OWN record. Far from "everyone" copied that, and if they did, it was the "SexyBack" sound (like Janet's "Feedback") that has nothing to do with Hard Candy. Timbaland is far from as overused and copied as Stargate/Ne-Yo/JD or any of those mid-tempo R&B producers (Babyface & David Foster were also a lot more used back in the day), I know Timbaland was used in the early 2000s, but he was far from as successful as in 2006. It's not like Madonna waited years to get that sound, she enlisted him for her next upcoming album after he got big again, unlike Mariah, who's only working with him NOW. Apparently not everyone considers him tired or overused, if he's still good enough to produce songs. Oh and I know he (or Danja, more like) was also used on a Duran Duran album that came out not long before HC and crashed and burned, not to mention that it sounded quite different from his usual stuff anyway.

The "supposed to set trends, not follow them" is also a very cliche argument when it comes to Madonna, sorry, but she did not set any trends with her music in the US for a long time now, definitely not her last 4 albums. Outside the US, ROL was the last trendsetting album with several UK acts copying that sound by using Orbit. Just because US radio didn't bother with COADF, it doesn't mean Madonna was cutting edge or groundbreaking with that record, many compared it to Kylie, Goldfrapp and even Rachel Stevens outside the US. Songs like "Get Together" could not have been less fresh as it copied typical Euro trance that was big in the beginning of the decade, yet it's hailed as a fan favourite gem. I don't see what you expect from Madonna when it comes to "fresh-ness". Should she have canceled the Confessions Tour when Loose got big so she could have rushed to the studio with Timbaland to release a record just in time when Justin would release his? It doesn't work that way and contrary to popular belief, producers are not limited to one single year. Calling AL fresh is a huge stretch as well. Her success and career is not built around discovering fresh and cutting-edge sounds, no matter if you got that impression in the last decade.

Also, I don't see the age argument either, how was most of Music or COADF anymore mature than HC? Just because she was singing about fame? In fact most of COADF is a lot more generic in terms of lyrics and theme, just because of "my sugar is raw" and "see my booty get down", it doesn't mean HC was a huge drop in terms of maturity.

[SkyHigh76]

"She's doing shit that artists young enough to be her children are doing"

The exact same thing could be said about Mariah,Janet and all the other 40+ artists."Touch My Body" by Mariah,"Feedback" by Janet,etc.Just because Madonna is 50 doesn't mean that she should stop making fun pop music.Do you want her to do a "serious", inaccessible album where she sings about Kabbalah,spirituality and starvation in Africa? Come on now! Who would go out and buy that? 'American Life' (her last "serious" album) was heavily panned by many people.I personally think it was a good album but when Madonnna takes herself too seriously,she flops big time.

[SkyHigh76]

"....coming from someone who used to set trends"

I never understood why so many fans believe this.Madonna has made some incredible music,but most of it did NOT set any trends! First of all,how could she singlehandedly set any trends when she doesn't even produce herself? Any album that she has done features music that was created by her collaborators/producers.None of her past producers have set any trends with the music they produced for her or for other artists.Sure,she has done some cutting-edge work with non-commercial producers but I wouldn't call it trendsetting.COADF certainly didn't set any trends.Like I said before,I don't know why so many fans expect Madonna to re-invent the wheel when she does a new album.What's wrong with good,pop/dance music? I don't really care if other artists have the same sound because nothing done in pop music is unique anyway.It's all been done before."Heartbeat" isn't the least bit original but it's still a fun,catchy song.

[hesser]

She's doing shit that artists young enough to be her children are doing

But you have no problem w/COADF??? Hillary Duff or Miley Cyrus coulda got away w/ making Hung Up/Sorry/Jump. Why is it that dance music is A-OK for a middle aged woman to make but commercial r&b/pop isn't? How is the latter less mature than the former? If we are gonna restrict Madonna to being "age-appropriate", then she should be making nothing but lite FM ballads.

Edited May 21, 2009 by hesser

[Guest Danny86]

"....coming from someone who used to set trends"

I never understood why so many fans believe this.Madonna has made some incredible music,but most of it did NOT set any trends! First of all,how could she singlehandedly set any trends when she doesn't even produce herself? Any album that she has done features music that was created by her collaborators/producers.None of her past producers have set any trends with the music they produced for her or for other artists.Sure,she has done some cutting-edge work with non-commercial producers but I wouldn't call it trendsetting.COADF certainly didn't set any trends.Like I said before,I don't know why so many fans expect Madonna to re-invent the wheel when she does a new album.What's wrong with good,pop/dance music? I don't really care if other artists have the same sound because nothing done in pop music is unique anyway.It's all been done before."Heartbeat" isn't the least bit original but it's still a fun,catchy song.

I guess it has to do with critics, apparently several of them repeated the same argument in HC reviews, especially the American ones, which is weird because nobody can claim Music, AL or COADF were trendsetting in the US.

Madonna undoubtedly created trends when it comes to videos, live performance, fashion and especially general image and behavior of female artists, but somehow her music, especially her sound got mixed up with that. I don't think anybody ever claimed Madonna musically trendsetting in the 80s, the only thing I read was some saying that she brought dance music back with her debut album, but apparently members here proved that wrong, if I remember well.

I guess "Vogue" and the use of Shep Pettibone is the closest thing of setting a musical trend Madonna ever did, she was quick to use Shep's makeovers for the LAP singles and for "EY" she even used the remix for the video. Shep did a lot of remixes in those years for other artists, but undoubtedly the "EY" remix and "Vogue" were his first big successes and ultimately he would remain remembered only for that. Even if "Vogue" is heavily based on his "Miss You Much" remix, it was still a huge success and was responsible for bringing that sound to the mainstream. After that Madonna obviously wanted to expand that sound because she guessed there was more to mine out of it, but I think Erotica came out too late and her other projects messed up with it, but by sticking with Shep for 2 years more, she already broke her "trendsetting" image when it comes to a sound. After Erotica, I think Shep didn't even produce any mainstream artist, possibly because there was no demand for it anymore and the charts went to the power ballads/R&B stuff direction, which Madonna also followed.

As for Orbit, he remixed Madonna 7 years before producing her, but she was the first pop artist to produced by her and he went onto doing hits with All Saints, Pink, U2 etc, but I believe he did not score any US hits and I don't remember the ROL sound being trendsetting in the US, as they were more focused on Lauryn Hill, TLC, Cher, Whitney, Eminem, teen pop and of course the big start of "rent a rappers" with Mariah's Rainbow and then JLo...

"Music" was Madonna's biggest single in 10 years (in terms of sales) and was better received on radio than any of her ROL stuff, since it was more like a modernized version of "Holiday", "Into The Groove" or "Vogue" with its simple but universally appealing subject matter. Many expected the Mirwais sound to catch on but it didn't, and Madonna yet again stayed with the same collaborator, but trying to adapt that acoustic sound. Surely nobody thought in 2003 that Madonna was being original or trendsetting when she used the acoustic guitar in most of her songs, right?

Oh and for the record, if it wasn't for Mirwais trying to break in the US to get a record contract and Guy Oseary asking Madonna if he should be signed, then we would have got a ROL part 2 with the likes of "Runaway Lover", "Time Stood Still" & "Liquid Love" and I doubt that album would have been as big as Music, neither would be fans using the trendsetting argument now. Contrary to popular belief, Madonna did not go on a "underground producer hunt" and it was just a coincidence she discovered him.

I know my post is too long already, but I think some here said that Madonna's debut album would prove to be her most influential musically, as many female pop artists this decade would tap into that sound, like Gwen Stefani, Kylie, Ashlee or Jessica Simpson, who all paid tribute to it.

[SkyHigh76]

But you have no problem w/COADF??? Hillary Duff or Miley Cyrus coulda got away w/ making Hung Up/Sorry/Jump. Why is it that dance music is A-OK for a middle aged woman to make but commercial r&b/pop isn't? How is the latter less mature than the former? If we are gonna restrict Madonna to being "age-appropriate", then she should be making nothing but lite FM ballads.

Exactly!! "Hung Up" features extremely juvenile lyrics,as does "Hollywood","Sorry","Music","Impressive Instant" and numerous other Madonna songs from this decade.What's the difference between those lyrics and the lyrics on Hard Candy? For many years now,Madonna has been doing songs that younger artists could easily record.If you don't like Hard Candy,fine,but let's not pretend that Madonna has suddenly "dumbed down" her music on Hard Candy.

[Guest AshLover1977]

"like a chica cherry cola"

Madonna fans can't be hanging shit on other artists about lyrical content....

Impressive Instant anyone?

[Etips]

Exactly!! "Hung Up" features extremely juvenile lyrics,as does "Hollywood","Sorry","Music","Impressive Instant" and numerous other Madonna songs from this decade.What's the difference between those lyrics and the lyrics on Hard Candy? For many years now,Madonna has been doing songs that younger artists could easily record.If you don't like Hard Candy,fine,but let's not pretend that Madonna has suddenly "dumbed down" her music on Hard Candy.

Furthermore, I don't see how walking through alley's, lounging in vans and dancing with young twenty-somethings made her look less silly than hanging out with Justin (who is a hop, skip and jump away from thirty.) Was she not old enough to be the mother of most of that posse she surrounded herself with in the music videos for "Hung Up" and "Sorry?" The excuses are getting thinner and thinner. This has nothing to do with whether or not Hard Candy sounds like it could have been recorded by Beyonce, Mariah, or whoever else was arbitrarily named. As was pointed out, most of that ever so sacred Confessions on a Dance Floor album could have been recorded by Disney Channel starlet, or European dance act. So to shame HC for being too 'common' and not being trendsetting enough, while holding up COADF, is disingenuous as hell.

This is about some people having a problem with Madonna not conforming to the box they feel most comfortable sticking her in and throwing a pretentious temper tantrum about it.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Madonna fans can't be hanging shit on other artists about lyrical content....

Impressive Instant anyone?

True, but hearing her say "I like to singy, singy, singy/Like a bird on a wingy, wingy, wingy" with her voice autotuned to death overtop "Disco science" on on amphetamines...it's one of those bonkers pop moments that makes life worth living.

The lion's share of lyrics on American Life, however...

[Pabl0114]

True, but hearing her say "I like to singy, singy, singy/Like a bird on a wingy, wingy, wingy" with her voice autotuned to death overtop "Disco science" on on amphetamines...it's one of those bonkers pop moments that makes life worth living.

The lion's share of lyrics on American Life, however...

whts a wingy anyway?

[Guest ursaminorjim]

[Pabl0114]

gross...

[acko]

People quoting 'singy singy wingy wingy'..like r u 4 real & just not familiar

with the concept of having a sense of humour or what?..

[funkydita]

People quoting 'singy singy wingy wingy'..like r u 4 real & just not familiar

with the concept of having a sense of humour or what?..

I LOVE "singy, singy, singy", it still makes me smile, it's genius. Hell, I even like "My mother died when I was five..." for its almost nursery rhyme quality.

My least favourite M line is "I was special too" from X-Static Process, I just hate that "special", makes me cringe and almost ruins a lovely song. One More Chance and Hey You deserve special mentions for being her most wretched songs (both musically and lyrically), especially the awful "Here is the law of the land, you play with fire and you'll get burned, here is the lesson I've learned, that you don't know what you've got til it's gone". Madonna can usually work a cliche well but those songs are just full to the brim with them.

[Lucky guy]

Furthermore, I don't see how walking through alley's, lounging in vans and dancing with young twenty-somethings made her look less silly than hanging out with Justin (who is a hop, skip and jump away from thirty.) Was she not old enough to be the mother of most of that posse she surrounded herself with in the music videos for "Hung Up" and "Sorry?" The excuses are getting thinner and thinner. This has nothing to do with whether or not Hard Candy sounds like it could have been recorded by Beyonce, Mariah, or whoever else was arbitrarily named. As was pointed out, most of that ever so sacred Confessions on a Dance Floor album could have been recorded by Disney Channel starlet, or European dance act. So to shame HC for being too 'common' and not being trendsetting enough, while holding up COADF, is disingenuous as hell.

This is about some people having a problem with Madonna not conforming to the box they feel most comfortable sticking her in and throwing a pretentious temper tantrum about it.

Yes, of course, 2005 was POSITIVELY AWASH with Miley Cyrus, Lizzie Macguire and Lindsay Lohan's Moroder-esque disco odysseys exploring the meaning of spirituality and fame.

The sad truth is that Hard Candy was simply a poor album. It doesn't matter now how Madonna got there, because it's too late for anything to be done. The final result is a joyless, workmanlike, over-produced embarrassing mess.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Yes, of course, 2005 was POSITIVELY AWASH with Miley Cyrus, Lizzie Macguire and Lindsay Lohan's Moroder-esque disco odysseys exploring the meaning of spirituality and fame.

Oh, if only...

[Phantom Pain]

it seems to me that there are 2 teams

one that loves HC

and the other worships COADF

thank god I like BOTH!!

[Lucky guy]

it seems to me that there are 2 teams

one that loves HC

and the other worships COADF

thank god I like BOTH!!

I'm more of a Music man myself.