Nearly 6,000 New Cases of Female Genital Mutilation in England

[jacket]

The way I see it. I wouldn't dare go to a country and disrespect their laws and customs. so I don't see why people go to other countries and try and enforce their way of living on everyone.

Exactly.

Try being an openly gay person, or just a woman that wants to show her knees in their country and see how accommodating they will be...

Change can happen with new generation. It's a cultural thing, the young generation that are here in UK will grow up not wanting this for their daughters. Don't put all these people in one box, a good change will happen.

I wouldn't count on it, second generation muslim migrants can be even more conservative than their parents and there are many cases of their radicalisation.

Pointing at other waves of migration success stories needs to look at why there were successful. I think it was because the people came from countries with a judeo-christian heritage. And even then, there were many teething problems. But at least there was a common foundation in which to bond. Now the West is much more secular and christians on the whole have moderated their views while the muslim world is still highly religious. And unlike other religions, muslims are shackled to some very rigid rules around obedience and how to treat non believers. This makes true integration and living in harmony with non-believers in their decadent countries complicated business.

[elijah]

Pointing at other waves of migration success stories needs to look at why there were successful. I think it was because the people came from countries with a judeo-christian heritage. And even then, there were many teething problems. But at least there was a common foundation in which to bond.

I agree sadly. One has to read up on the differences between Christianity and Islam and see that at the very core those religions differenciate alot. Main differences: the christian idea that you can be forgiven no matter what u ve did (muslims believe that after you die you deeds are weighed and depending which was greater you go to hell or to heaven), the brutal punishments prescribed in Quran (compare that to Jesus words: those without sins should cast the first stone, Jesus picking up fallen prostitute Maria (Magdalene some say but its not explicitly obvious it was her in the bible) etc. The striking difference however is the law: Mohamad was not simply a religious leader, he was a civil warrior and ruler too. According to Quran it contains the real uncorrupted words of God dictated directly to Mohamad through Archangel Gabriel. In short Quran claims to contain all the God rules on how to build up the perfect society: Quran regulated not only the spiritual life but the civil life too. Now compare that to the Bible idea that you should grant the Ceaser his and the God his. There is clear distinction between spiritual life and nonspiritual life (and as a christian you are obliged to follow the state law). The Bible never pretends it regulates all spheres of life (unlike Quran). Thats why there is no conflict between the development of law and being a christian. The Bible never pretends to regulate all the aspects of life. Thats why there is a conflict between being a good muslim and respecting the host country laws (those are not Shariah law so they are not really holy). There are others, but thats for starters.

[elijah]

And lets not touch up upon women rights. In Quran women are an object. In the Bible it was the women who saw Jesus first after resurrection.

[Jaz]

I agree sadly. One has to read up on the differences between Christianity and Islam and see that at the very core those religions differenciate alot. Main differences: the christian idea that you can be forgiven no matter what u ve did (muslims believe that after you die you deeds are weighed and depending which was greater you go to hell or to heaven), the brutal punishments prescribed in Quran (compare that to Jesus words: those without sins should cast the first stone, Jesus picking up fallen prostitute Maria (Magdalene some say but its not explicitly obvious it was her in the bible) etc. The striking difference however is the law: Mohamad was not simply a religious leader, he was a civil warrior and ruler too. According to Quran it contains the real uncorrupted words of God dictated directly to Mohamad through Archangel Gabriel. In short Quran claims to contain all the God rules on how to build up the perfect society: Quran regulated not only the spiritual life but the civil life too. Now compare that to the Bible idea that you should grant the Ceaser his and the God his. There is clear distinction between spiritual life and nonspiritual life (and as a christian you are obliged to follow the state law). The Bible never pretends it regulates all spheres of life (unlike Quran). Thats why there is no conflict between the development of law and being a christian. The Bible never pretends to regulate all the aspects of life. Thats why there is a conflict between being a good muslim and respecting the host country laws (those are not Shariah law so they are not really holy). There are others, but thats for starters.

This was very educational for me. Thank you!

[Guest Mauro]

And lets not touch up upon women rights. In Quran women are an object. In the Bible it was the women who saw Jesus first after resurrection.

New Testament

[elijah]

New Testament

yes real christianity=new testament, old testament is basically the torrah.

[karbatal]

You know my opinion Elijah. New Testament is cool and all that (except the Saint Paul vision of women and other issues) but the Old Testament is used by the Church too and part of Christianity. Look at the Evolutionists.

[Jazzy Jan]

I always feel like banging my head against a brick wall at times when discussing the rights of women over the rights of religion with people. Still remember having a discussion about this when I was about 12 and asking how so many women could just say that it was no one's business how women were treated in other cultures and also in the Christian religion. Just look how women were described in the Old testament as well which is sexist and barbaric to the extreme too.

Had other women tell me that women in different countries should just put up with it as it is part of their culture. Still does not make any sense to me why in some cultures women have to cover their bodies up, feel shame and be called dirty for menstruating, not be allowed in to places of worship while men can and be killed for bringing shame on the family. Similar with how women are described and told to obey men in the Old testament. Sorry if this offends people but human rights should always come above religious rights that are based on books that were written so long ago and are proved to be grossly wrong and inaccurate.

[elijah]

I always feel like banging my head against a brick wall at times when discussing the rights of women over the rights of religion with people. Still remember having a discussion about this when I was about 12 and asking how so many women could just say that it was no one's business how women were treated in other cultures and also in the Christian religion. Just look how women were described in the Old testament as well which is sexist and barbaric to the extreme too.

Had other women tell me that women in different countries should just put up with it as it is part of their culture. Still does not make any sense to me why in some cultures women have to cover their bodies up, feel shame and be called dirty for menstruating, not be allowed in to places of worship while men can and be killed for bringing shame on the family. Similar with how women are described and told to obey men in the Old testament. Sorry if this offends people but human rights should always come above religious rights that are based on books that were written so long ago and are proved to be grossly wrong and inaccurate.

That DOES not work in some places. Look at Iraq, Syria, Lybia. Most of the women there accept their inferior position. We should stop pushing our views on them. I think it has become obvious by now. We should leave them be whoever the majority of them wants to be not impose on them some ideas they don't understand. The other way would mean a big fucking mess. Now its different when they are coming to Europe, USA and Australia. Now those ppl should be FORCED to accept values like multiculturalism, women, gay rights etc. or be expelled. Those that are against secularism, rule of law, human rights should be send back. Its time to find out ways to detect those ppl.

[elijah]

You know my opinion Elijah. New Testament is cool and all that (except the Saint Paul vision of women and other issues) but the Old Testament is used by the Church too and part of Christianity. Look at the Evolutionists.

I agree with you on this of course. There are some radicals (weirdos) in Christianity using the Old Testament to justify their narrowmindness/stupidity/evil nature, but those radicals are far from the majority unlike in Islam. Look at the most important islamic state of the world and then look at the Vatican. Not the same thing. And for the last time: the christian values are in the New Testament. The old one is basically judaism.

[Jazzy Jan]

That DOES not work in some places. Look at Iraq, Syria, Lybia. Most of the women there accept their inferior position. We should stop pushing our views on them. I think it has become obvious by now. We should leave them be whoever the majority of them wants to be not impose on them some ideas they don't understand. The other way would mean a big fucking mess. Now its different when they are coming to Europe, USA and Australia. Now those ppl should be FORCED to accept values like multiculturalism, women, gay rights etc. or be expelled. Those that are against secularism, rule of law, human rights should be send back. Its time to find out ways to detect those ppl.

Why is it even acceptable for women to be thought of as inferior though ? I just find it incredibly sad and wrong in every way. Would it be different if men were treated as inferior ? Would people be more outraged then ?

[elijah]

Why is it even acceptable for women to be thought of as inferior though ? I just find it incredibly sad and wrong in every way. Would it be different if men were treated as inferior ? Would people be more outraged then ?

Don't try to turn it into sexism or smh it is not. Why is it acceptable? Because millions of women accept it and won't do anything to change it. Do I agree with it? Hell no! But do i think we should go there and artificially impose on them to grant the women rights they are not ready to give? 20 years ago I would ve said yes, definitely. Now when I see whats happening in Europe I say no. Let them have women rights when they are ready. And I would ve said the same thing if it was the men who were in inferior position.

[jacket]

There are women and men in those cultures that fight it, but they get suppressed, intimidated or killed. And i'm sure there is a silent sizeable minority that wished things were better.

Women I think are similar across the globe in terms of their capacity to dream and wanting a better lot in life (that's not just a western notion). Especially now that globalisation and technology beans around images of alternative lifestyles. However, when you are so completely held back by society you resign to your 'fate'.

How the global community can better support these dissidents, I'm not sure. But invading their countries to 'liberate' them sure isn't the way and only serves to delegitimatise any grassroots revolution.

[Jazzy Jan]

Don't try to turn it into sexism or smh it is not. Why is it acceptable? Because millions of women accept it and won't do anything to change it. Do I agree with it? Hell no! But do i think we should go there and artificially impose on them to grant the women rights they are not ready to give? 20 years ago I would ve said yes, definitely. Now when I see whats happening in Europe I say no. Let them have women rights when they are ready. And I would ve said the same thing if it was the men who were in inferior position.

Elijah, Sorry I was not saying that you yourself was sexist as it is obvious to me that you are definitley NOT sexist by your posts. I was just asking an open question that I always think and ask about the status of women in the world compared to men. It is how I have felt for years and will always express that view.

I find this photo to be one of the saddest moments in history for women's rights. Taken in 1979 in Iran - women protesting in the streets for their rights. Sadly, they would not be allowed to do this today.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

There are women and men in those cultures that fight it, but they get suppressed, intimidated or killed. And i'm sure there is a silent sizeable minority that wished things were better.

Women I think are similar across the globe in terms of their capacity to dream and wanting a better lot in life (that's not just a western notion). Especially now that globalisation and technology beans around images of alternative lifestyles. However, when you are so completely held back by society you resign to your 'fate'.

How the global community can better support these dissidents, I'm not sure. But invading their countries to 'liberate' them sure isn't the way and only serves to delegitimatise any grassroots revolution.

[elijah]

There are women and men in those cultures that fight it, but they get suppressed, intimidated or killed. And i'm sure there is a silent sizeable minority that wished things were better.

Women I think are similar across the globe in terms of their capacity to dream and wanting a better lot in life (that's not just a western notion). Especially now that globalisation and technology beans around images of alternative lifestyles. However, when you are so completely held back by society you resign to your 'fate'.

How the global community can better support these dissidents, I'm not sure. But invading their countries to 'liberate' them sure isn't the way and only serves to delegitimatise any grassroots revolution.

I agree with that too. Forcing some societies to accept western ideas could have the opposite effect as we have seen throughout the Arab world. Some stable and undemocratic regimes are the better option that democratically chosen salafists or muslim brotherhoods. Ask spazz. I m sure he much prefers the undemocratically "chosen" Sisi to the islamists that were devastating Egypt.

[elijah]

Elijah, Sorry I was not saying that you yourself was sexist as it is obvious to me that you are definitley NOT sexist by your posts. I was just asking an open question that I always think and ask about the status of women in the world compared to men. It is how I have felt for years and will always express that view.

I find this photo to be one of the saddest moments in history for women's rights. Taken in 1979 in Iran - women protesting in the streets for their rights. Sadly, they would not be allowed to do this today.

I m all for women rights.