Why is Madonna lumped alongside the J. Lo's, Paula's and Britney's?

[Probed By Greys]

I wouldn't go that far She is very good live though yes.

Lots of pop stars can put on a decent vocal performance. What impresses me are passionate singers, not singers that just go out there and scream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzhpTA95Bnc

[loomer]

I think the "screaming" you refer to also has its place. But yes, the post-Mariah syndrome of stretching a syllable to 16 notes where 1 would do is ridiculous. That bytch has a lot to answer for and has poisoned the music industry. Without her we wouldn't have all those awful screaming wannabes on Idull/Shit Factor.

Nobody does did it like Prime Whitters

Except BABS

Or a REAL singer like MJB - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3bn41_mary-j-blige-their-life-hurricane-k_music

Prime Mariblah - love or hate. At her showboating worst? But at least with a good, if derivative, song

[loomer]

More early Mariah. But did she actually have any soul in the note perfect with a VOICE days?

Two more screamers. I cannot decide which performance is better. But I know who I LIKE more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arWV3VZ5ZZw

[Guest bluejean]

when you see Rihanna and Shakira fans attacking M's voice, it seems like unnatural hatred.

Neither of those 2 are great vocalists either.

Really, I don't think anyone relevant is lumping Madonna in with anyone other than Elvis, The Beatles, Michael Jackson, U2, Mick Jagger/Rolling Stones, maaybe Mariah Carey (she has sold alot of records and had alot of #1 hits) and all the greats of the the rock n roll era. All the female pop stars since Madonna are viewed as derivative by critics.

Madonna has done too many average vocal performances to be appreciated for her singing by the masses. But if some Rihanna fans are writing Madonna off, that's a big joke really. Rihanna is a manafactured artist who doesn't write songs, isn't a great singer nor performer. She's done great songs and looks cute. But she's leagues below Madonna and lucky to be there really.

[BabyDietrich]

People who are anal about vocals group any pop stars be them has beens or legends together because they're usually more about the image than the voice and so they probably see them as non-artists (and though M isn't an amazing singer she can do very very well when she's not dancing her ass off and even when she's dancing she can do pretty well). And even if it's a narrow minded way of thinking I can see why some people who are fans of the great vocalists of the past (or present) in R&B etc. may think that way. But as for people who are fans of Britney or Rihanna or whatever, who are also not exceptional singers either, I dunno. Maybe they're threatened by M and so they try to put her in the has-been category. That or they're uneducated about her. Also not all music is just about powerhouse vocals. Different genres have different focuses.

Speaking of Britney Spears why could she sing better when she was 10 than she can now?

Anyway bottom line is not everyone appreciates Madonna, big deal. It's not anything new.

[HolidayGuy]

Anyone without a tin ear would not lump her in with them. Madge clearly has a stronger singing voice than any of them. Tack that onto the fact that's a much stronger artist and force than any of those. The only context she should be mentioned alongside them is when discussing those other ladies as part of the infinite number of "wanna-be's" to emerge through the years.

[MadFan]

People like Whitney Huston and Mariah have "VOICES" and they have ZERO presence on stage. No point having a great voice if it can;t do fuck all for you when you stand in front of 20 thousand people. A voice means SHIT if you can't captivate an audience.

The answer is no bitch. In her day Whitney could bring an audience to its FIGURATIVE KNEES. CASE in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaDbdNOK8sU

Mariah, however

edit - oh did you only mean presently? I'm sorray!!!! if that's the case then I agree.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

The answer is no bitch. In her day Whitney could bring an audience to its FIGURATIVE KNEES. CASE in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaDbdNOK8sU

Sorry sweetums, but that was a load of boring corny pish

[MadFan]

gir' you know they were feelin' the beehive.

[Guest jamesshot]

I notice on many other boards, namely UKMix (where a Shakira fan started ripping on M's voice, as well as a Rihanna fan... these are NOT Mariah/Celine type artists lol) as well as others, people who don't care for Madonna love to lump her alongside the ilk of J. Lo, Paula and Britney amongst other well-known "no voice" entertainers. I refuse to be delusional and claim that as a vocalist Madonna is up there with old-school Whitney or anything like that, but I just never could understand why and how people can seriously lump her next to Paula Abdul as a singer and seriously believe she is talentless.

If Madonna was this terrible no-voice, she would've been laughed out of the audition for Evita, she never would've gotten away with songs like Take A Bow, Frozen and You'll See. I can see where Madonna may not be the alpha and omega for female artists but when you see Rihanna and Shakira fans attacking M's voice, it seems like unnatural hatred.

I have a very simple answer- they have figured out it is an effective way to slam Madonna. Sad thing is it has been repeated so much people start to believe it.

Madonna belongs in the "medium voiced" category and is heads and tails abover Britney, Janet, Rihanna, Shakira, J-Lo and Paula.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

I wouldn't say she's above Rihanna. Especially lately. Listen to the Sticky & Sweet Tour, you'll know what I mean.

She just has a very limited instrument, vocally - which is fine. What matters most is that it suits her music, and her music is generally pretty damned good.

[Guest jamesshot]

I wouldn't say she's above Rihanna. Especially lately. Listen to the Sticky & Sweet Tour, you'll know what I mean.

She just has a very limited instrument, vocally - which is fine. What matters most is that it suits her music, and her music is generally pretty damned good.

She is above Rihanna for sure. Lately? I dunno but I can't judge a 51 year old seasoned vet to someone in their 20's with no wear or tear on their instrument. Still, Rihanna is shit. Absolute shit. She doesn't have the character nor quality of Madonna's voice.

I hate when people say "limited" instrument. Everyone has a limited instrument to a degree. Madonna's vocals are just fine. She is not a powerhouse vocalist and that is A-OK.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Hate it, but it's the truth. She doesn't have a whole lot of range or stamina.

I'd say Rihanna's voice is very similar in a lot of respect's to early Madonna, actually. Neither of them have a powerhouse voice, but they both manage to sit perfectly within their surroundings. Their voices are more about tone and texture than melody and performance.

[Guest RM25]

i hate Rihanna so much.her voice is annoying.Madonna s voice is way better than her,JLO,Aguilera(she sings so loud).JLO said that all those new girls like Lady Gaga was inspired by her. pathetic

[Guest jamesshot]

Hate it, but it's the truth. She doesn't have a whole lot of range or stamina.

I'd say Rihanna's voice is very similar in a lot of respect's to early Madonna, actually. Neither of them have a powerhouse voice, but they both manage to sit perfectly within their surroundings. Their voices are more about tone and texture than melody and performance.

Truth? It is your opinion. Again, no one is arguing she is Barbra Streisand here. I think her range is actually very decent. Stamina? Hard to tell since she dances so much. But she certainly doesn't have Streisand stamina either. Sometimes Madonna's voice sounds small other times it sounds much fuller.

So, again, we all agree she isn't a big voiced diva but I hate the term limited because it applies to everyone and it doesn't tell anyone anything about her voice. It is a stupid term to use.

Rihanna still sucks. Her voice may be similar to early Madonna but early Madonna shits on Rihanna's voice. anyday.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

In your opinion.

[Guest jamesshot]

In your opinion.

Of course.

[loomer]

Rihanna has a HORRIBLE whiney tone (although distinctive at least), Madonna is actually pleasant to listen to and can communicate emotion better. That's the difference. Although to be fair to RiRi I noticed she has got better and at least tries to sing live.

I think what Jim was saying was that they were similar in power, and well, let's face it.. Madonna has never been good at holding notes for very long and nor has she been known for doing vocal ad libs so people will assume from that she has a weak voice. Especially with some ragged sounding performances at her peak, where she belted it out. May be too raw and rough sounding for some.

BUT... Madonna on True Blue, Madonna on I'm Breathless. Madonna on ROL (completely different singer). Rihanna and the others can't touch that. And she always has Sooner Or Later to show that (as embarrassing as a fan with all those horrific off key performances were) that if she bothered, she could sing live - AND perform - and do it brilliantly. Perhaps better than any studio recording.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

Rihanna's voice would sound better if it actually had some life in it. The girl sounds beyond bored on her albums.

[cosmic_system]

Rihanna has a HORRIBLE whiney tone (although distinctive at least), Madonna is actually pleasant to listen to and can communicate emotion better. That's the difference. Although to be fair to RiRi I noticed she has got better and at least tries to sing live.

I think what Jim was saying was that they were similar in power, and well, let's face it.. Madonna has never been good at holding notes for very long and nor has she been known for doing vocal ad libs so people will assume from that she has a weak voice. Especially with some ragged sounding performances at her peak, where she belted it out. May be too raw and rough sounding for some.

BUT... Madonna on True Blue, Madonna on I'm Breathless. Madonna on ROL (completely different singer). Rihanna and the others can't touch that. And she always has Sooner Or Later to show that (as embarrassing as a fan with all those horrific off key performances were) that if she bothered, she could sing live - AND perform - and do it brilliantly. Perhaps better than any studio recording.

AMEN.

[loomer]

Rihanna's voice would sound better if it actually had some life in it. The girl sounds beyond bored on her albums.

Nail On Head. Madonna (pre-American Life at least) made up for what she lacked in chops with conviction and soul. She sings it like she means it (mostly) and is able to give life to otherwise dull/routine narratives and the odd trite lyric. Her voice is actually the key ingredient for me, cause she elevates her pop towards greatness. I would not care one iota for her if she had the voice of Janet or J-Lo, that shyt gets old fast.

And even Kylie, with her technical strength who seems more in control of her voice and like Mariah is able to move fluidly between chest and head voice (or whatever it is). She actually now has an unusually good and deep back catalogue for a pop star filled with great b-sides and album tracks, but I've always found her voice to be the biggest problem (not live!) cause of that shrill, sharp nasal tone. I can only listen to her for a certain amount of time. Madge's voice can get irritating after so long too, but I can really listen to her non stop for hours.

It's all about TONE for me. Give me Whitney or Barbra over the "technically perfect" Mariblah any day. And their voices were more powerful anyway - still is in the case of nearly 70 year old Babs who took care of her voice! Madonna at her peak DID have a little bit of vague "richness" to her voice as well. Now I agree, she's looking in bad shape.

[Probed By Greys]

Madonna belongs in the "medium voiced" category and is heads and tails abover Britney, Janet, Rihanna, Shakira, J-Lo and Paula.

You can't really compare Shakira's voice to Madonna's because their vocal style is different. There are different types of singers out there, you can't just group them all together and say who's better. Why you're at it, why not bring Dolly Parton, Emmylou Harris & Aretha Franklin into this? Shakira excels when she's singing Latin Folk music. Shakira is famous for her pop music, but her vocals are best suited for folk music. I'd pair her up with Mercedes Sosa, Dolly Parton & Emmylou Harris. All those are folk singers.

Shakira performing a folk song:

Shakira also sounds best singing soulful songs, like the one below:

Shakira - All Of Me (Billie Holiday cover)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRNmL4m5OIk

[Guest jamesshot]

I think Madonna's voice has always been fairly rich. She can sound gorgeous throughout her career. She has power (enough) but she does lack fluidity in her vocal movement at lot of time singing live. Madonna is most definitely not in the small voice diva catagory. She is firmly in the medium voice category which is fine since most popular singers are in this catagory. I once heard someone say "Madonna and Shery Crow have similar vocal strength. But Sheryl gets far more credit because, unlike Madonna, Sheryl doesn't write and sing songs made for a powerhouse singer whereas Madonna often does sing songs that can be tough for her to repeat live because she writes bigger than her voice" or something like that. Which is true. Madonna does often tackle songs that are challenging like Ray of Light, You'll See, Sooner or Later, More, Take A Bow, Papa Don't Preach, Open Your Heart, Like A Prayer and so on and she does pull them off usually though as we have heard not always.

I thought Madonna put the whole "can't sing" thing to rest after Evita and nailed the coffin shut with Ray Or Light but a few badly timed live performances totally undid that perhaps.

Although, I have heard many Madonna haters admit she can sing but they just say she can't because it is such good weapon to use against Madonna fans.

[loomer]

Shaki sounds like Celine with GOAT vibrato

[loomer]

Cheryl Crowle was RUBBISH when she did back up for Jacko. She improved later on. I find her music and voice VERY bland. But she does have that smooth MOR tone, that might fool people that she's better than what she actually was.

[Guest jamesshot]

You can't really compare Shakira's voice to Madonna's because their vocal style is different. There are different types of singers out there, you can't just group them all together and say who's better. Why you're at it, why not bring Dolly Parton, Emmylou Harris & Aretha Franklin into this? Shakira excels when she's singing Latin Folk music. Shakira is famous for her pop music, but her vocals are best suited for folk music. I'd pair her up with Mercedes Sosa, Dolly Parton & Emmylou Harris. All those are folk singers.

You know you make fantastic points and I totally agree. I am happy you mentioned those other singers as well. We do Madonna an injustice when we play into the haters who say she has a "limited" range or whatever. Bob Dylan is considered a great singer yet he couldn't hold a fucking note or sing like Adam Lambert to save his life. Singers should be judged by a host of different standards and at the end of the day if you think Madonna or Sheryl or Kylie are the singers you most like then who is to say they are any less than any other singer.

[Guest jamesshot]

Cheryl Crowle was RUBBISH when she did back up for Jacko. She improved later on. I find her music and voice VERY bland. But she does have that smooth MOR tone, that might fool people that she's better than what she actually was.

And she doesn't attempt Evita or other songs that might challenge her. Of course I am making generalizations but for the most part Sheryl plays in safe.

[loomer]

I thought Madonna put the whole "can't sing" thing to rest after Evita and nailed the coffin shut with Ray Or Light but a few badly timed live performances totally undid that perhaps.

A lot of haterzzz insist her recordings for that were computerised. Not bothering about the fact they had to transpose the score a few keys down from the original "opera".

And some naysayers use the fact she didn't and couldn't sing the score as intended to knock her down - like bitter Miss LuPone - although at least she isn't the VILE Elaine Paige who when asked what she liked about the movie version, said, "I thought she died well"

One reviewer on a blog said for "Music" Madonna had returned to the childish range she had before ROL. Which is kinda true. "Music" was never one of her best vocals - but it was never the point. At least we have WIFLFAG

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Well, it's not as though Evita is some sacred, difficult, challenging piece. It's a fucking pop opera.

I really wish she hadn't had such intense vocal coaching during that era. It may have blanded out her voice and made it nice and pretty for the film, but she's been so mannered ever since.

[cosmic_system]

American Life was the last album where I adored her voice. Confessions was half good (I love the Jump vocals). Hard Candy...only Devil and Voices.