The Madonna has no 'real talent' debate..

[Guest]

'Art is the only way to run without leaving home.' Twyla Tharp.

Most art is derived from trauma and fantasy. Madonna has plenty of both. Her talent is understanding exactly where she has to go and making sure she gets there. I don't mean making number one records. She moves forward towards fulfilling her destiny so effectively. It's really a thing of beauty. Her soul is damaged and she's been trying to fix it for ever. I don't really think she knows how beautiful she is and yet she lets the world absorb everything about her. That in itself is a talent. To let yourself be that prone. A British journalist interviewed her and asked the question 'Why have you endured in the public eye? What is it you think that people see when they look at you?' she didn't bother to think before replying 'Themselves. They see their self.' She remains enigmatic while being totally overexposed. Underrated yet super highly celebrated. She's created a massive body of work that can be considered light hearted entertainment, heartfelt poetry and anything in between. Her voice is incredibly diverse and emotive. She has limits, as do all singers...but she has a penchant for character portrayal. She has a very active brain. She can disect, break down and re-build most if not every artistic medium. She is a phenomenal dancer. A visionary. She is an old fashioned Hollywood superstar with extra balls. She's a living dichotomy. People want to discredit her because they are afraid and unaware of what she is. It doesn't work in their heads. Just like Da Vinci or Van Gogh or Beethoven. They are contradictions of human comprehension. They have a heavier connection with intrinsic beauty. I believe that people driven to live through art are somehow imbalanced in their mental stimulations. Her talent is making her 'freak' into 'fantasy'. She's an empty vessel that is spilling over. This may sound like a monologue from a crazed fan, but really I am in awe of somebody that turns their misfortune into something beyond natural comprehension. It's more than

[Guest nothingfails0603]

also: people who say she's "not beautiful" seriously need to learn to actually LOOK at her pictures. Not pictures that only the tabloids allow you to see, but series of pictures of her from the past 52 years.

When I hear people say she's not beautiful, (or not a good singer and dancer) I know they've not done their homework

People always use that one emaciated picture of her after leaving a gym to show how "ugly" she is, but is there any famous person whose looks are on 100% of the time? Like it or not a lot of straight guys in the 30-40 range likely learned to jerk off to and because of Madonna. She was a bonafide sex symbol in the 80's.

[redhot]

'Art is the only way to run without leaving home.' Twyla Tharp.

Most art is derived from trauma and fantasy. Madonna has plenty of both. Her talent is understanding exactly where she has to go and making sure she gets there. I don't mean making number one records. She moves forward towards fulfilling her destiny so effectively. It's really a thing of beauty. Her soul is damaged and she's been trying to fix it for ever. I don't really think she knows how beautiful she is and yet she lets the world absorb everything about her. That in itself is a talent. To let yourself be that prone. A British journalist interviewed her and asked the question 'Why have you endured in the public eye? What is it you think that people see when they look at you?' she didn't bother to think before replying 'Themselves. They see their self.' She remains enigmatic while being totally overexposed. Underrated yet super highly celebrated. She's created a massive body of work that can be considered light hearted entertainment, heartfelt poetry and anything in between. Her voice is incredibly diverse and emotive. She has limits, as do all singers...but she has a penchant for character portrayal. She has a very active brain. She can disect, break down and re-build most if not every artistic medium. She is a phenomenal dancer. A visionary. She is an old fashioned Hollywood superstar with extra balls. She's a living dichotomy. People want to discredit her because they are afraid and unaware of what she is. It doesn't work in their heads. Just like Da Vinci or Van Gogh or Beethoven. They are contradictions of human comprehension. They have a heavier connection with intrinsic beauty. I believe that people driven to live through art are somehow imbalanced in their mental stimulations. Her talent is making her 'freak' into 'fantasy'. She's an empty vessel that is spilling over. This may sound like a monologue from a crazed fan, but really I am in awe of somebody that turns their misfortune into something beyond natural comprehension. It's more than

true words. still sad that after almost 30 years into her career there are still people who feel she has no real talent other than self-promotion...

[Avarice]

also: people who say she's "not beautiful" seriously need to learn to actually LOOK at her pictures. Not pictures that only the tabloids allow you to see, but series of pictures of her from the past 52 years.

When I hear people say she's not beautiful, (or not a good singer and dancer) I know they've not done their homework

Or seen her in real life.

I was lucky enough to see her up close during "Up for Grabs" and she is gorgeous. A-ma-zing eyes.

[Phantom Pain]

I think people say she's not talented because she doesn't have an easily definable , obvious talent , like singing or songwriting. that doesn't mean she doesn't have it , otherwise she wouldn't have gotten as far as she did. It's there but it's not easily seen.

[Arnotts]

I think people say she's not talented because she doesn't have an easily definable , obvious talent , like singing or songwriting. that doesn't mean she doesn't have it , otherwise she wouldn't have gotten as far as she did. It's there but it's not easily seen.

Thats so true. The main 'talent' she has is herself. The unique looks/personality/message. And the amount of confidence she had to back it up should be seen as a talent as well. Her music and singing abilities are average (for a a professional, shes much better than the average person though) but most people with average talent dont have everything else going for them the way she has.

[Apples388]

sex

[Ai Papi Si.]

listen to "OH FATHER" and tell me your heart doesn't break and understand...what she is singing and how hurt she is.

Oh lord - the CHEESE

Anyway I don't disagree with the rest of what you wrote or what anyone else wrote really. Madonna's talent is unique in the sense that not many people in Hollywood do what she does. Sometimes her drive makes up for some of her shortcomings. As awful of an actress as she is, I bet with some work she would have gotten better at that too. She just had an uncanny ability of picking the worst possible movies EVA.

[5iVe Elements]

For me, her biggest talent is picking up new fans every time she releases new music. Sure some old fans abandoned her along the way, but there are always new one who come along and stay (myself included ). And for new fans to be interested in her back catalogue and like it, that's something impressive.

[roma]

'Art is the only way to run without leaving home.' Twyla Tharp.

Most art is derived from trauma and fantasy. Madonna has plenty of both. Her talent is understanding exactly where she has to go and making sure she gets there. I don't mean making number one records. She moves forward towards fulfilling her destiny so effectively. It's really a thing of beauty. Her soul is damaged and she's been trying to fix it for ever. I don't really think she knows how beautiful she is and yet she lets the world absorb everything about her. That in itself is a talent. To let yourself be that prone. A British journalist interviewed her and asked the question 'Why have you endured in the public eye? What is it you think that people see when they look at you?' she didn't bother to think before replying 'Themselves. They see their self.' She remains enigmatic while being totally overexposed. Underrated yet super highly celebrated. She's created a massive body of work that can be considered light hearted entertainment, heartfelt poetry and anything in between. Her voice is incredibly diverse and emotive. She has limits, as do all singers...but she has a penchant for character portrayal. She has a very active brain. She can disect, break down and re-build most if not every artistic medium. She is a phenomenal dancer. A visionary. She is an old fashioned Hollywood superstar with extra balls. She's a living dichotomy. People want to discredit her because they are afraid and unaware of what she is. It doesn't work in their heads. Just like Da Vinci or Van Gogh or Beethoven. They are contradictions of human comprehension. They have a heavier connection with intrinsic beauty. I believe that people driven to live through art are somehow imbalanced in their mental stimulations. Her talent is making her 'freak' into 'fantasy'. She's an empty vessel that is spilling over. This may sound like a monologue from a crazed fan, but really I am in awe of somebody that turns their misfortune into something beyond natural comprehension. It's more than

++nicely expressed. Madonna is art.

[Guest bluejean]

you could 200 million dollars into marketing a shit pop artist.....will she have a hit?....maybe........will she last........no.

Paris Hilton, one of the worlds most brilliant self marketers, proved this!

[Guest bluejean]

A British journalist interviewed her and asked the question 'Why have you endured in the public eye? What is it you think that people see when they look at you?' she didn't bother to think before replying 'Themselves. They see their self.'

Wow, I have never heard that quote. And that is exactly why Madonna is so good. All that searching she has done publicly is exactly what people spend their lives doing. It was never contrived or prepackaged, it was just a natural exploration imo. I think that's why it's lasted so long too, because she has mostly followed her gut instinct and done what she wanted rather than trying to appease the public. And being someone that's bored easily, she usually wants to do something different each time. It's Madonna's pain and struggle that made her so great, because it made her relatable on different levels to so many people.

Great post GU!

[Guest bluejean]

For me, her biggest talent is picking up new fans every time she releases new music. Sure some old fans abandoned her along the way, but there are always new one who come along and stay (myself included ). And for new fans to be interested in her back catalogue and like it, that's something impressive.

Exactly. Because she doesn't repeat herself. It comes from being an artist and wanting to try new things.

[datf]

to put it simply, it's her ability to captivate people in any ways possible even after 28 years.

[Guest bluejean]

People always use that one emaciated picture of her after leaving a gym to show how "ugly" she is, but is there any famous person whose looks are on 100% of the time? Like it or not a lot of straight guys in the 30-40 range likely learned to jerk off to and because of Madonna. She was a bonafide sex symbol in the 80's.

I guess people have an idea of what is beautiful, and Madonna doesn't have model looks as such. She is sexy, she exudes sexuality and charisma. As a person I believe she is beautiful but very misunderstood in the public eye. People say she is a bitch when they've met her briefly, but people that know her or who have worked with her more closely always say wonderful things about her as a person.

[albertogerard]

Oh lord - the CHEESE

Anyway I don't disagree with the rest of what you wrote or what anyone else wrote really. Madonna's talent is unique in the sense that not many people in Hollywood do what she does. Sometimes her drive makes up for some of her shortcomings. As awful of an actress as she is, I bet with some work she would have gotten better at that too. She just had an uncanny ability of picking the worst possible movies EVA.

Don't delude yourself. Exactly how much more work did she need? 18 more movies? If that was the case, by the time "Swept Away" came out, she would have won an Academy Award. Madonna has had the longest on the job career training of any actress. Face it, a lot of people who think Madonna is "untalented" are aware of her track record as an actress.

[acko]

^ The longest on the job training in history

It's interesting though, why u'll never read stuff like 'Kylie has no real talent..'

But that's rather transparent (wouldn't u say?) I mean those other bitches aren't

threatening.

What's also interesting is how people react 2 her 'changeing'. For some reason

it's perceived as a negative, evil, manipulative thing..the lesbian academic in me

thinks our patriarchal society has a hard time dealing with that. A woman is not allowed 2 b

many things. But just look at the scene she emerged from, interpolation of the arts is

what that period was all about..& that's what she's been doing ever since.

To quote Shirley Manson : 'What Madonna has done within the boundaries of pop music is amazing.'

*Note to Lucie O'Brien, u can steal my opinions for ur next Madonna bio but this time I want credit.

[Guest]

Wow, I have never heard that quote. And that is exactly why Madonna is so good. All that searching she has done publicly is exactly what people spend their lives doing. It was never contrived or prepackaged, it was just a natural exploration imo. I think that's why it's lasted so long too, because she has mostly followed her gut instinct and done what she wanted rather than trying to appease the public. And being someone that's bored easily, she usually wants to do something different each time. It's Madonna's pain and struggle that made her so great, because it made her relatable on different levels to so many people.

Great post GU!

When I heard it expressed, it really sent chills down my spine. I love in Madonna: Evolution when her old flat mate talks about how she could take any piece of clothing and make it look cool. She has a quality that you can't buy steal or borrow. You can't learn that sort of thing. I don't really know what 'talent' is. I think it's mostly a silly word. If it's something that is intrinsic to a persons nature then Madonnas talent is just being herself and allowing the whole world to be captivated by it. Super bitch.

[loomer]

So what's the deal here, is it her erratic quality of live vocals? High trees catch a lot of wind

& that's why lesser vocalists & performers aren't singled out as she is? (hello, Janet?)

Tranice fans think she's a better singer than Madonna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx4oyv8mY_o

[Apples388]

This is Esther's reaction to this thread (and mine):

Make of that what you will

[acko]

This is Esther's reaction to this thread (and mine):

Make of that what you will

[Apples388]

[stumble upon]

Well my interpretation of madonnas talent is that she speaks the truth and is an artist because she takes her inspiration and makes it hers by interpreting it. Her voice is expressive which is more important to a song than the range of your voice. She's very visual and visionary.