peter Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 I honestly don't think most people in Hollywood want any of their films attached to Madonna in any way simply because Madonna + Film equals negative publicity to the general public. I agree with what you say here -- that is, of course, the case right now. TNBT and Swept Away have cemented that sentiment. However, Evita was an exceptional moment in her film career, too, and came as a surprise at the time. Let's hope it's about time for another pleasant surprise if she is going to continue on with film (i.e., We). So... I guess I'm saying, in hindsight, Precious also could have been her surprising return to the good side of cinema. But as it is, that's not happening, so... Oh well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 You were making assumptions based on ZERO firsthand knowledge. Digging up old interviews, and quoting other people doesn't change that. As much as you hate being told you don't know what you're talking about because you're white, black people don't appreciate being told how WE think or feel about anyone or anything. And please don't make Madonna out to be some civil rights champion. She's not. The last I checked black people have the same rights and opportunities as everyone else, and we did it long before she came on the scene. Please tell me a statement where I said ALL BLACK PEOPLE FEEL THIS WAY or MADONNA IS THE GREATEST CHAMPION OF BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS? I didn't. For whatever reason, that is the way you are taking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nothingfails0603 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree with what you say here -- that is, of course, the case right now. TNBT and Swept Away have cemented that sentiment. However, Evita was an exceptional moment in her film career, too, and came as a surprise at the time. Let's hope it's about time for another pleasant surprise if she is going to continue on with film (i.e., We). So... I guess I'm saying, in hindsight, Precious also could have been her surprising return to the good side of cinema. But as it is, that's not happening, so... Oh well! True, but Mariah doesn't exactly equal good publicity for a movie either. Hell, Madonna's at least had four movies you can argue were successes (DSS, Dick Tracy, ALOTO and Evita), Mariah's movie career was dead on arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Please tell me a statement where I said ALL BLACK PEOPLE FEEL THIS WAY or MADONNA IS THE GREATEST CHAMPION OF BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS? I didn't. For whatever reason, that is the way you are taking it. "Despite being a long-time supporter of rights and performers from that background" Your words. I told you in my first response to you, that you had no basis to speak for ANY black person. Everything else you've written has been ASSUMPTIONS based on your own perception of how YOU feel, black people feel about Madonna. I think you're really intelligent, and well meaning, and I certainly don't think you're a racist.....but I'd be lying if I said your initial post didn't annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 black people don't appreciate being told how WE think or feel about anyone or anything. Well, you obviously don't apply that standard to Caucasians: YOUR WORDS: Her real lack of support is coming from the white community. They're the ones who own the radio stations that refuse to play her music, and the mass media that is constantly slagging her off as an irrelevant has been. Yes, because all white people own radio stations and we all refuse to play her music. How can you sit there and accuse me of painting the African American community with a broad stroke and yet you turn around and do it yourself? Sorry, I usually enjoy reading your posts Afrolito, but this is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nothingfails0603 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Well, you obviously don't apply that standard to Caucasians: YOUR WORDS: Yes, because all white people own radio stations and we all refuse to play her music. How can you sit there and accuse me of painting the African American community with a broad stroke and yet you turn around and do it yourself? Sorry, I usually enjoy reading your posts Afrolito, but this is absurd. I agree. I normally like Afro's posts but he seems to be way too on the defensive here. We're not a bunch of Klansmen out to lynch him. I just didn't understand why Madonna was refused to right to produce this movie and then at the end of the day, I think Mariah has about as much in common with the subject matter as Madonna does (actually, Madonna has more in common than Mariah does considering her younger days and years in NYC). If anything, saying all black people are all naturally into hip hop culture and people like Oprah (who has been on a lot of rapper shit lists because she invites people like Celine and Babs on her show but usually avoids hip hop guests) and Mariah couldn't possibly be outsiders is a bigger broad generalization than any white person has ever said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 "Despite being a long-time supporter of rights and performers from that background" Your words. I told you in my first response to you, that you had no basis to speak for ANY black person. Everything else you've written has been ASSUMPTIONS based on your own perception of how YOU feel, black people feel about Madonna. I think you're really intelligent, and well meaning, and I certainly don't think you're a racist.....but I'd be lying if I said your initial post didn't annoy me. Well, to me I guess they are not the same thing - that in being a supporter of equal rights is a civil rights leader for the African-American community (they are not one and the same). I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was just saying "this is my impression based on what I've read people in the community say." I haven't polled everyone in the African American community to know the actual numbers, so that is true. I do like discussing it though and I am sorry if it makes you upset. Certainly not my intention. I just feel like talking about this stuff. I'm not trying to pigeon hole or disrespect. I've made a number of general statements about the gay community as well, about Republicans, and celebrities - and none of which are meant to indicate I am an authority or spokesperson for any of those groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Well, you obviously don't apply that standard to Caucasians: YOUR WORDS: Yes, because all white people own radio stations and we all refuse to play her music. How can you sit there and accuse me of painting the African American community with a broad stroke and yet you turn around and do it yourself? Sorry, I usually enjoy reading your posts Afrolito, but this is absurd. I'm willing to bet that most, if not all the major pop radio stations in this country are owned by white people. So yeah...they are the ones not playing Madonna on their pop stations. I understand that you're annoyed with me, but don't twist my words into an absurdity. You know perfectly well I wasn't implying that ALL white people owned radio stations. You're smart, and don't really need to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree. I normally like Afro's posts but he seems to be way too on the defensive here. We're not a bunch of Klansmen out to lynch him. I just didn't understand why Madonna was refused to right to produce this movie and then at the end of the day, I think Mariah has about as much in common with the subject matter as Madonna does (actually, Madonna has more in common than Mariah does considering her younger days and years in NYC). If anything, saying all black people are all naturally into hip hop culture and people like Oprah (who has been on a lot of rapper shit lists because she invites people like Celine and Babs on her show but usually avoids hip hop guests) and Mariah couldn't possibly be outsiders is a bigger broad generalization than any white person has ever said. Look...I don't think you're a klansmen with a secret hood in the closet. I think you're cool, and I enjoy reading your posts. Let's just leave it at that, and put a period on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Well, to me I guess they are not the same thing - that in being a supporter of equal rights is a civil rights leader for the African-American community (they are not one and the same). I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was just saying "this is my impression based on what I've read people in the community say." I haven't polled everyone in the African American community to know the actual numbers, so that is true. I do like discussing it though and I am sorry if it makes you upset. Certainly not my intention. I just feel like talking about this stuff. I'm not trying to pigeon hole or disrespect. I've made a number of general statements about the gay community as well, about Republicans, and celebrities - and none of which are meant to indicate I am an authority or spokesperson for any of those groups. I'm over it, and I'm not upset, or even annoyed with you anymore. I think we agree on more things than not, so it's all cool on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 True, but Mariah doesn't exactly equal good publicity for a movie either. Hell, Madonna's at least had four movies you can argue were successes (DSS, Dick Tracy, ALOTO and Evita), Mariah's movie career was dead on arrival. Oh, I agree wholeheartedly on both points. Going off your first point, if Mariah's involvement doesn't detract from the positive buzz for the movie (which it hasn't as yet that I can see), then Madonna's involvement could have been similarly innocuous. (Unless, as Afrolito said earlier, it was in the same vein as the criticism of Spielberg's work in The Color Purple. That an 'outsider' perspective in a leadership/influential position -- not in an acting position -- cut compromise the creative direction and ultimate impact of the film.) Second point, agreed -- all those films can pretty handily be seen as successes, to which Madonna's involvement contributed. Even M's 'near misses' in film have been huge successes: she was almost in the film version of CHICAGO (which one Best Picture); she was originally involved in the film that became Music of My Heart (previously something like 99 Violins or something) and her role was assumed by none other than Meryl Streep, who's regarded as one of the greatest actresses working today; and now Precious. (I don't know that Music of My Heart became a huge success or anything, but the fact that Meryl took the role Madonna would have played if she could have stuck with it is not too shabby. I mean, I guess you could view it as 'trading up' or something, but I prefer to think of it as Madonna *had* the part, which means she could have pulled off a role Meryl wound up playing, all things being equal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Mariah’s in the film because Helen Mirren (the original choice) had to bail on the project. Lee Daniels (the director) is friends with both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck82 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Mariah's in the film because Helen Mirren (the original choice) had to bail on the project. Lee Daniels (the director) is friends with both. He went from Helen to Mimi?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 He also apparently had originally wanted Jane Fonda. Helen Mirren was actually cast and was going to do it and then dropped out for some reason. (Scheduling or something?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nothingfails0603 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 to go from Fonda and Mirren to Mariah would be like having to replace Robert DeNiro or Sean Penn with someone like Channing Tatum Anyways, I actually want to see this movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 to go from Fonda and Mirren to Mariah would be like having to replace Robert DeNiro or Sean Penn with someone like Channing Tatum Oh Channing Tatum isn't THAT bad, he's OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Even M's 'near misses' in film have been huge successes: she was almost in the film version of CHICAGO (which one Best Picture); she was originally involved in the film that became Music of My Heart (previously something like 99 Violins or something) and her role was assumed by none other than Meryl Streep, who's regarded as one of the greatest actresses working today Music Of My Heart was yet another Oscar nomination for Meryl, but I think it's regarded as one of her lesser films. I got the feeling Meryl took that part as a way to get back at Madonna for her getting the Evita role, which Meryl was very bitter about - though apparently she praised her? I know Madonna pulled out of Music Of My Heart because of creative differences with Wes Craven. I thought it was a shame, as she had to learn violin for the part. Would've been interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coked Up Baby Boy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Oh Channing Tatum isn't THAT bad, he's OK When he plays a wigga he's OKAAAAY. When he tries to do anything else he's an ATROCIOUS actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddysMuff Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I skipped most of the posts here. Madonna is box office poison. Why would a person aspiring to make money and have a huge film, or even moderate film, go to a woman who will only kill it? I completely get what afrolito is saying. However, the black community doesn't support anything outside of itself. And that's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I skipped most of the posts here. Madonna is box office poison. Why would a person aspiring to make money and have a huge film, or even moderate film, go to a woman who will only kill it? I completely get what afrolito is saying. However, the black community doesn't support anything outside of itself. And that's the truth. Whose truth? What exactly is the black community? And who are you to speak for all of us? If you had actually did get what I was saying, I doubt you would have made such a ridiculous statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddysMuff Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Whose truth? What exactly is the black community? And who are you to speak for all of us? If you had actually did get what I was saying, I doubt you would have made such a ridiculous statement. I was waiting for this. I was just fucking around. There is no real community of anything, particularly when it comes to minorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I was waiting for this. I was just fucking around. There is no real community of anything, particularly when it comes to minorities. I sometimes think you and I would have been great pals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Madonna had a big black following back in the day. I think she had a top 10 R&B hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddysMuff Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I sometimes think you and I would have been great pals. Oh, we can be great pals on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Oh, we can be great pals on here. That would be nice....finally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddysMuff Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 That would be nice....finally Yeah, a long time coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 drat! foiled by Oscar again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thehiltonsuite Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 And guess who wouldn't be in it if that happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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