Kurt420
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Posts posted by Kurt420
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Mariah's latest single is starting to take off though right? I know it debuted on the Hot 100 but I haven't really paid attention to it's AI's or anything.
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Etips started the thread asking where 4 minutes stand in terms of most successful singles ever - using SINGLE SALES 4 minutes is probably in Madonna's top 3 bulldozing all but Vogue......then 4 mins might end up being above vogue soon......
Then dicktracey offers his opinion on what her biggest songs are cultural impact wise, chart sales,longevity etc.....cultural impact wise Frozen was MILLION times bigger. it was not a typical ballad - it was far too risky a release for the hip-hop and rock loving american radio - it has a lot of underground influence. it was released at a time when something was needed to divert the attention from sex-crazed madonna who was becoming a bit of a joke. Was it at the brit awards when a journalist asked her "whats next, revealing the insides of your body as we have seen everything on the outside" something along the lines of that.... and after that she released ballads, evita but was becoming a bit stale....someone mentionned the UK Radio Station BBC Radio 1 considering banning her because she was seen a past it............if you talk about cultural impact Frozen is everthing whilst 4 Mins is just bland drivel churned out by a producer who makes JT and nelly Furtado sound better....but does nothing for Madonna...culturally 4 mins is nothing but a an average modern urban american track ......
as for longevity......10 years on frozen is still remembered - might not get much recurret airplay but it is the one song that changed madonna's fortunes.....it was nt a typical drippy sweet ballad which might be guaranted success......Frozen won fans old and new....it persuaded people to invest in the album........it gave madonna credibility and respect........ 4 mins mght have been bought by 2 million people in teh USA but not even 1 in 3 were interested in the album......
Hung up used a sample ofg ABBA music Madonna did nt record a duet with them...theres a difference....Madonna was trying a style of music which may be ignored by American radio as it was one of her "gayest" records for a while.....Hung Up was Madonna alone doing her thing....radio would not have touched 4 Mins if it had not been for JT.....
if you want to answer the question of how successful 4 Minutes is - then one only has to use sales figures to answer that. Stuff like cultural impact, longevity, youtube views is irrelevant..... these are things that cant be measured or may not have any return......i dont pay to watch youtube but i pay to buy a single.......
success has also to be looked at how the project affects album sales, concert ticket sales etc......one of the best ways to measure success is by money made ........success is about the overall package....4 minutes had huge sales yet HC might just sell 1/3 of what its predecessor COADF sold
Yes, but the fact that 4M is with one of the biggest pop stars of the "new generation" (think Britney's, Christina's etc).....wouldn't that fact in itself make it kind of a memorable track years to come? And without the Abba sample HU would've been nothing.....sorry, but any remix I've heard that doesn't include that sample is terrible. The sample makes the song.
You do realize many people (outside of the hardcore fans) consider Frozen to be "techno trash" right?? In the plethora of Madonna's greatest singles (in the US at least) Frozen is not considered one of her classics.....even TAB is more well loved and remembered. No doubt it helped change the course of her career AT THE TIME. But here we are 10 years later and her fans hate her again....so ultimately did it really matter?
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for what Mimi may do now thats she outta the top 40!!!
Annullment?? Affair?? lol
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I agree. I do believe that singlehandedly led to the demise of the recording industry and why illegal downloading exploded like it did. I don't think there's one person here who was a music consumer in the 90's that didn't get burned at least a few times because there was one fantastic song and a lot of forgettable other tracks, and the only way to get that good song was by the full-length album. I wish the labels would take some of the blame instead of just bashing the consumers.
I would say in all honesty that in the past few years, the quality of albums as whole units have remarkably improved becaus the artists are aware of downloading and therefore put more work into the product so the consumer will feel like they're getting their moneys worth, as opposed to the 90's when crap was coming out from the left and right and all it needed was one good song that would be withheld from a commercial single.
All of what you say is very true! Which is why I felt absolutely no remorse in the Napster days......however, I think I've made up for it by now!
But I do still buy albums that I feel are worth it and since I've had an ipod and started using itunes, my "emuling frenzies" have drastically decreased. I try to only "emule" what I can't find on itunes.....but occassionally I still give in.
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I hope all of you people who are selling your tickets plan on selling them at the same price you bought them (or below face value if you are really generous). Otherwise you are just as greedy some of you are claiming she is.
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Ok i dont really know where to post this "correctly"
But anyways, Where is the Think of Me and Physical Attraction lurve ?? Gawd those songs would seriously make me hit the floor in a frenzied mess
lol! Forget Dress You Up and Open Your Heart (well not really, of course)Has she ever performed these songs live? i know she tends to neglect some classics and HARDcore fan faves but these two are soooo GOOD. I know she will prolly never perform, but i can dream cant i? But if BORDERLINE is true, s'all good!
And yes a new setlist (updated) would be nice, anyone?
I think she performed PA during some of the promo shows for her first album. TOM has never gotten the live treatment to my knowledge. And hey....who in a million years would've guessed she'd perform You Thrill Me of all things....so you just never know!!
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So what is the latest rumored set list then?? The last one I heard didn't have AL in it even as an interlude. Anyone mind posting?
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Regardless of how big 4 Mins is commercially it owes half of its success to JT and is not a new fresh sound which the others were.
4 Mins may have sold so many and been watched by so many but it owes half of its success to another artist - without JT the song would nt even have surpassed HU's airplay and I dare say its sales, youtube count would have been lower. 4 Mins did nothing for the album. HC would have sold that much without even a lead single.
How anyone can rank 4 Mins higher than Frozen is beyond me.
You say those things with such conviction. You don't KNOW that it wouldn't have done well without him or not. Even with HU being a "Euro sounding dance" song, at a time when digital sales were not what they are now it STILL managed to go to number 7 and sell nearly 1,000,000 and that was just HER name alone.
All we can look at is the bottom line, not "what if". And the bottom line is....Madonna is 50% of the song, it's the lead single from her album, it sold 2,000,000 copies in the US....waaaay more than Frozen. 4M is the ONLY thing that has helped HC sell what is has sold in the US at this point. It is the only thing that has kept it from dropping like a stone the way AL did when it had NO hit single to push it. The HC percentage drops have been smaller. The difference between Frozen and 4M is that her fans WORSHIP Frozen and see it as the ushering in of the "new Madonna" whereas 4M the hardcore fans don't like but the casual fans ate it up. The reality of the situation is though, most casual fans 10 years after Frozen probably can't even hum it to you. It gets little to no recurrent airplay in the US and sold a quarter of what 4M did. So looking at the "bottom line" it's VERY easy to rank 4M above Frozen. Just because it doesn't have a new or fresh sound doesn't mean what it achieved is any less. Just because JT is on it doesn't mean it's any less of a hit either.
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Higher than most would like or thought it would be
I guess it's how you determine what is most successful. In terms of sales like you are suggesting, to my knowledge, only Vogue and LAP have done 2,000,000. But it "only" peaked at number 3 so she's had 12 US number ones, plus something like 5 or 6 number 2's I think and a couple other number 3's. I do believe among the number 3's though this is the most successful in terms of sales (definitely) but also in terms of the amount of time it spent in the top 10. 4M spent 11 weeks in the top 10. Her other number 3's were True Blue, Secret and Erotica. I'm sure someone with a little more chart knowledge could give you a clearer answer. But bottom line as far as I can tell:
In terms of single sales it's among her Top 3 most definitely.
In terms of chart positions only and amount of weeks spent in the top 10, it would most likely be in the top 20.
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is there any chance to found out what themes will have all those sections? i cant really imagine is it going to be theatric or just changing costumes...? is there going to be gipsy theme like on live aid? or...something new stlye theme like on drowned world like geisha but something else? where is her inovation last few years...?
i am starting take her like person who is doing her job and nothing else...
about the setlist...well...probably she knows what she is doing...and she usually does what she wants with setlist...so...if she like hung up...she'll do it....even i don't understand last section? hung up in hard core-4 minutes in beats and grand finale with give it to me in dance moves? really don't get it in my head....how those can get together? you know...at the end she is singing give it to me? saying thank you and goodbye after it? and fans will sing give us more...its stupid...
Well I can assure you the casual fans at the US dates of the CT were probably screaming "give us more" when she closed with HU. Here in our little Madonna infested world we forget that HU was not exactly the phenomenon that it was everywhere else in the world in the US. Sure it was way bigger than GI2M but most casual fans (the ones that many fans in this thread seem to be concerned about) could give a shit about anything past 1990 anyways. Two months ago fans were claiming GI2M as one of the best tracks she's done in a long time, now that it hasn't been the HUGE hit many thought it would be of course it's not good enough.....or BIG enough I should say to close the show. How about she switches 4M and GI2M on the setlist....would that be better?? A very recent worldwide (INCLUDING the US) smash to close the show with?? We haven't had that since Music on DWT.
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Maybe TEAM MADONNA have been surfing fansites and have read that fans are pissed of with the crappy setlist.
The only thing that's going to please some of the fans is if she drops most of the HC songs since many hate the album. So no matter what classics she throws in between the HC songs people will still bitch because this tour is all about HC.
WOO HOO!! Can't wait to see these songs performed live.
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In all honesty, you grew up. It's never gonna be like it once was, with her or anyone else, because you know better now.
That's an excellent point too that I meant to bring up in my little diatribe...lol....but I got sidetracked. I think most of us here are adults who have been fans for years. It would be almost impossible for Madonna to continue to..... or any act for that matter to give us that feeling that we felt when we first "fell in love" so to speak, because most of us were kids.
I remember when Britney hit the scene and kids were falling in love with her and even now we have posters here who absolutely love her. I enjoy her past couple of albums, but *I* don't get how anybody could like her first couple of albums.....they are trash to me. But then I realized that most of those people were the age I was when I became a hardcore M fan (12-13) by the time Brit hit I was 18 so there was no way she was going to affect me the way she affected someone who's 5 years younger than me. But to them Brit in her little school girl uniform chirping her insanely catchy pop songs was THE DEAL and SCANDALOUS....it caught the youngsters eyes. I just said "Madonna did/does it better....this girl is a joke". JADED I guess!
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I think that "Hard Candy" has left a lot of us with a bad taste in our mouths (no pun intended) and, had the album been different (or the whole era/image/presentation for the matter), there would be more excitement. Instead, it's almost a sense of dread... and a feeling that she's going to keep repeating herself. We've all come to expect so much out of a Madonna concert because she has set the standard so high, that it is very disappointing to see such a bland setlist and you just have to wonder what she's going to do with it. In recent years, it seems that she has been relying more and more on the people around her to do the work and keep her popular, rather than her being innovating, interesting and captivating. It's like, without them, she's got nothing left to give us. Her interviews are boring. Her performances, a little uninspired. You can't just stand on stage and say "fuck" a lot and think that's all you need to do to entertain a crowd. Grow up, granny... it doesn't look good. She seems disinterested in everything. I think she's realized how much help she can get from others and she seems to use it to her fullest advantage now. It's almost as if she's just sitting back, letting her "people" keep her career going.
She used to be the definition of a megastar... Untouchable and even mysterious. That magic just doesn't really seem to be there anymore. I don't look at her and get that "Oh my God, what a fucking ICON!" feeling anymore. It's sad...
Please don't attack me for my opinion... that's all it is, my opinion. I'm still a fan, just hitting a bump in the road.
In fairness, it's hard for someone to maintain any sort of mystery when every single move they make is documented and plastered all over the net for us to see within minutes. Back in the day part of the mystery was not knowing what was going on. There really is no newer star out there that has the air of mystery and larger than life status that acts like M, MJ and Prince had in the 80's....it's almost impossible to do that these days. Back then, Madonna would just drop out of sight for a year and MAYBE you'd see a pap pic here and there if you went to the magazine racks and flipped through People, Us, Entertainment Weekly etc. If some of us would lay off the "Nation" (not suggesting YOU should....just generally speaking) for a while and not watch every single thing she does and every pap pic that's taken of her when she leaves the gym, maybe when she does do something it would be more appreciated. It's like people complaining about doing the same routine for HU on CT that she did in the COADF album promo performances. Well.....maybe if you wouldn't break your neck to search for every single performance of the song on every single show she went on maybe you would have no problem with it when you actually see it live.
It's just odd to me that people are making the worst judgements and predictions when most of us here adored the last tour. Not liking the current album is one thing but what would indicate that she's no good at live performing anymore? The 5 song promo gigs she did a couple months back?? Not a fair way to assess the upcoming tour IMO.
Also it seems like a lot of times M fans have the tendency to over do it a bit when she tours....the past 3 anyways. People were going to 3, 4, 5 and even 10 shows.....no wonder the excitement isn't as high this time around, kind of inevitable. Even if you just went to 1 show each on the past 3 tours I still think it's normal not to be as excited this time.
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How do some of you people enjoy tours by other acts who don't have 30-40 hit songs to choose from on each tour?? Those artists have no choice but to do some of the same songs on consecutive tours. You guys act as if you HATE ROL, Music, LIB, ITG etc. and they are all classics which up until now get praised constantly now they aren't good enough all of a sudden? What's up with that? It's not like any of them are going to be the same as they were on any previous tours anyways.
I just think it's lame that some fans are opting out solely because of the setlist, unless they aren't feeling HC. If this were the old days we wouldn't even know the setlist, we'd just be excited that Madonna is touring and be surprised at what she sings when you go to the show. Imagine if we had known the BAT set before seeing the show and chose to opt out of it because she was doing LAV, PDP, ITG, WTP, LTT etc again?? A couple of those named songs were some of the best performances she's ever done and they were all done on the tour prior.
And bitching about HU being performed; a song that is possibly the biggest hit of her career, certainly the biggest worldwide hit she's had this decade AND it's only been performed on ONE tour is just STUPID. OF COURSE she's going to do that song. Leaving it out would've been the equivalent to leaving LAV off the WTG tour setlist simply because she did it on the VT.
GET
A
CLUE!!!!!
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Not true, Madonna was the best selling female in 1985 with her Like A Virgin album.
Best selling albums of 1985 according to BillBoard:
1 Bruce Springsteen
Born In The U.S.A.
Columbia
2 Bryan Adams
Reckless
A&M
3 Madonna
Like A Virgin
Sire
4 Wham!
Make It Big
Columbia
5 Tina Turner
Private Dancer
Capitol
Yeah, 1985 was the only year Madonna was THE RED HOT female performer and no other female artist could touch her that year. After that though, she's always been there but you guys have made excellent points. At any given time (except '85) throughout her career there has always been some other female artist who was bigger than her at that time. Typically though, they are nowhere as consistent as Madonna.
I wouldn't dare call LAP a flop, but to me just looking at the bare stats and all the good it had going for it and the music market in 1989, I have to say I've always felt that album underperformed.
And do TRUST AND BELIEVE had this forum been around in 1989 this forum would've been a madhouse. "OMG LAP ONLY went to number one for 3 weeks but the song and video are her best EVER. I thought it would beat LAV 6 week run at number one. She's a flop if she can't beat LAV with THIS masterpiece. OMG LAP is only at 4 million in sales. True Blue sold 7 million and Like A Virgin 10 million....does this mean since the 80's are over she is also since her sales keep declining with each album!??!?!" MAYBE PAULA ABDUL IS THE NEW QUEEN OF POP FOR THE 90'S....AFTER ALL HER ALBUM SOLD WHAT TRUE BLUE SOLD. PAULA IS THE NEW MADONNA!!!" Madonna's old now. I'll be forever your girl Paula!!!
"so funny.....and the Erotica years around here would've been a real hoot I'm sure....lol
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You would think since 4 Minutes was massive by me that some stations would be picking up on GI2M, but nothing so far......*sigh*
You would THINK....but who knows anymore with US radio it's so damn fickle. To me GI2M is a perfect "pop" song. Maybe not so current "typical" radio friendly, but it's just got "it". BTW I never listen to radio only if someone else is in the car or if I'm at a party/get together where they are playing radio (like yesterday when I heard it). But I swear, EVERY TIME I happen to listen to the radio I hear GI2M here in Puerto Rico. I was on a 5 minute ride up to Papa John's earlier this evening and I heard it AGAIN!
And they do not edit out the "get stupid" part. Not sure if the "pop" stations that are playing it in the States are editing that out (it seems they would) but they aren't here. -
I'm hearing quite a bit here in Puerto Rico and looking at Botoxic it looks like .843 of it's 1.942 total is Latin.
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Hmm, yeah certainly better, though WTG to me was her best though it still contained some very off moments. Its quite simply really, the easiest way to deduce if I like a performance is to see the amount of theatrics involved. More theatrics=worse performance. I do make exceptions, EY for BAT being an example.
Dont really like the dance TIC version of LAP, thats why I dont like the live performance ot it...Ok....you rock right now then.
VT and WTG are the deal! Now don't say anything else the rest of the day and ruin it!!! 
j/k
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Hmm, no, that was was pretty bad aswell. Never did like the majority of her live performances on BAT or GS.
Virgin tour??
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Kind of my point really...
....and he hates the Girlie Show too.....SHOCKED!!
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@ some of the comments.....
NO Hung Up, Music or Holiday but damnit I'm soooooo excited that she may do Buenos Aires....lol. Maybe she'll throw in Freedom, Little Boy and Shine A Light over Borderline or Dress You Up too!! YAAAAY
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I think it was Zezwer.
Awww.....well, he's a sweetheart. If it was him, it's ok....we all get a little excited about things sometimes.
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You tell 'em Kurt.
:vanitybonet:
SNAP
SNAP
SNAP
:vanitybonet:
It's just funny....I'm not trying to dis anybody or anything...I don't even remember the people who were doing it honestly. I just remember laughing because, my gosh it was NOON where I live....the song had literally been out like 5 hours and because it hadn't SHOT to number one on Mediabase (or WHATEVER damn chart...there are like 80 of 'em it seems) it was a FLOP FLOP FLOP!!
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What is this bitching about GI2M being a flop all about? I thought that the song went to the US radio just yesterday, no?
I see you joined in April so you missed the whole fiasco in March when 4M was released. Check this out....lol....I remember the day they sent 4M to radio and it was around 12 noon on the east coast of the US....so that makes it 9 AM on the west coast. There were people in here FLIPPING out that 4M wasn't being played like every hour and they were screaming flop....keep in mind this was literally HOURS after the song had been sent to radio officially. LOL
Welcome to MNation!!!
Now, I don't think GI2M is going to be a hit honestly, but still it's just hilarious that here we are 1 DAY after it's official add date and here we go with the "chicken little" B.S. already.
Sticky & Sweet tour rumours
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
Posted
I'm thinking that Paolo's setlist is bogus or just heavily based on the other rumored setlist. "Candy Girl" is not a Jackson 5 song, it's a New Edition song.