Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 At the time, all of the artists mentioned there were "avant garde" to a degree. Not in the classical sense of the term, but in terms of popular music? Of course. Nobody sounded like Bjork or Portishead or Grace Jones at the time they came out. They were appropriating from other genres and artists, sure. Postmodern or not, the overall packages were unique and not being done by anyone else. Portishead and Massive Attack literally INVENTED a genre. GetUnconscious, if you're from the UK, you of all people should understand the impact of the Bristol sound. You can't be Avante Garde to a degree. You are or you aren't. If I make inordinate noise and irregular sounds and record them does that make me Avante Garde? After all, nobody would sound like me. Portishead and Massive attack were inspired by blues, jazz, hip hop, electronic music, choral music and even folk music. You might consider somebody who shapes a recognisable sound a visionary or a leader but you can't call them a creator. If that's so then you have to call gangster rap Avante Garde at its roots. I don't think anybody would think that. :-) Grace Jones was Avante Garde in the way she presented herself but her music was either pastiche or of the time. Bjork seems so different to the world because she was bringing something very cultural through in her music. I think she has an unusual view and sound but I don't consider her a creator. I'm not criticising these artists but rather saying that sometimes expect something/credit something that won't/hasn't happened. Edit: what is your vocal range by the way? I feel like I'm a tenor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You can't be Avante Garde to a degree. You are or you aren't. If I make inordinate noise and irregular sounds and record them does that make me Avante Garde? After all, nobody would sound like me. Portishead and Massive attack were inspired by blues, jazz, hip hop, electronic music, choral music and even folk music. You might consider somebody who shapes a recognisable sound a visionary or a leader but you can't call them a creator. If that's so then you have to call gangster rap Avante Garde at its roots. I don't think anybody would think that. :-) Grace Jones was Avante Garde in the way she presented herself but her music was either pastiche or of the time. Bjork seems so different to the world because she was bringing something very cultural through in her music. I think she has an unusual view and sound but I don't consider her a creator. I'm not criticising these artists but rather saying that sometimes expect something/credit something that won't/hasn't happened. Edit: what is your vocal range by the way? I feel like I'm a tenor. Who is avante garde? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Beethoven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Leonardo Da Vinci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Ahead of its time actually means "having ideas or attitudes that are too advanced to be acceptable in the present." The Sex book could possibly be considered ahead of its time. Hard Candy though Avant garde means experimental, innovative and pushing boundaries. Bjork is the perfect example of an artist that is like that. Maybe the Ray of Light album and the song Music could be regarded as avant garde but as a whole Madonna is a commercial artist. In her concerts and videos is where she has been most innovative IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Ahead of its time actually means "having ideas or attitudes that are too advanced to be acceptable in the present." The Sex book could possibly be considered ahead of its time. Hard Candy though Avant garde means experimental, innovative and pushing boundaries. Bjork is the perfect example of an artist that is like that. Maybe the Ray of Light album and the song Music could be regarded as avant garde but as a whole Madonna is a commercial artist. In her concerts and videos is where she has been most innovative IMO. You got the moves baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You got the moves baby! You got the motion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Ahead of its time actually means "having ideas or attitudes that are too advanced to be acceptable in the present." The Sex book could possibly be considered ahead of its time. Hard Candy though Avant garde means experimental, innovative and pushing boundaries. Bjork is the perfect example of an artist that is like that. Maybe the Ray of Light album and the song Music could be regarded as avant garde but as a whole Madonna is a commercial artist. In her concerts and videos is where she has been most innovative IMO. If that's what it means AMERICAN LIFE is the most avant garde she's ever gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 If that's what it means AMERICAN LIFE is the most avant garde she's ever gotten. How was making Music volume 2 being experimental or innovative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The most avant garde Madonna did was BAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 How was making Music volume 2 being experimental or innovative? The similarities are superficial and the sound pushes forward in a radical way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The similarities are superficial and the sound pushes forward in a radical way. The only thing radical is that awkward rapping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Why? They really went against the grain and brought something new to the world. Or they DISCOVERED something new. Their brains thought about living in an entirely different way. Both were seen as appalling and downright WRONG during their creative hay days. Not the same as being a little eccentric or provocative. Read a biography of their lives and work and you'll see what I mean. Ahead of its time actually means "having ideas or attitudes that are too advanced to be acceptable in the present." The Sex book could possibly be considered ahead of its time. Hard Candy though Avant garde means experimental, innovative and pushing boundaries. Bjork is the perfect example of an artist that is like that. Maybe the Ray of Light album and the song Music could be regarded as avant garde but as a whole Madonna is a commercial artist. In her concerts and videos is where she has been most innovative IMO. Erotica. Madonna was looking back...not forward. She broke a social taboo. Maybe she made sexual appropriation acceptable for people with a strong media presence but she didn't invent erotica or naked photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The most avant garde Madonna did was BAT You're right...and the accompanying documentary proved so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 They really went against the grain and brought something new to the world. Or they DISCOVERED something new. Their brains thought about living in an entirely different way. Both were seen as appalling and downright WRONG during their creative hay days. Not the same as being a little eccentric or provocative. Read a biography of their lives and work and you'll see what I mean. Erotica. Madonna was looking back...not forward. She broke a social taboo. Maybe she made sexual appropriation acceptable for people with a strong media presence but she didn't invent erotica or naked photography. Well I was thinking more about the exposure of self as a mainstream public figure/pop star. It wasn't til years later people have had the guts to "leak" sex tapes and feature S&M in their videos/Photo shoots. And I said it "could be considered" not that it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Well I was thinking more about the exposure of self as a mainstream public figure/pop star. It wasn't til years later people have had the guts to "leak" sex tapes and feature S&M in their videos/Photo shoots. And I said it "could be considered" not that it was. http://vimeo.com/45462053 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Madonnas genius is in understanding, dissecting and rebuilding the meaning in everything. That's why she's Queen of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I have never heard any of that shit you posted but my god the last one was awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You must have heard of Soft Cell right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You must have heard of Soft Cell right? Of course. Tainted Love. When I click on the link it doesn't give me a name. I'm using my phone while my computer gets repaired. So annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 There's loads of the things in the media that you're probably not aware or which made a big impact in many parts of the world. Madonna has the duality of being a 'pop star' and a provocateur which is why it's so easy to be exposed to it all. Strange though because she's probably the most exposed pop star but totally misread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaacHarris Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 No. It was right on time. Released when it should've been; while everyone was going dance-pop, Madonna did what she always did... Her own thing. She delivered a nice dose of funk into an electronic music scene. HC 4EVER & ALWAYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaacHarris Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 And to think, some simple minded fools STILL have the nerve to associate HC with bandwagoning... Sorry, but that term could apply to everything after 2008 if you want to keep it 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalism Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 GetUnconscious, you're defining "avant garde" as something that is completely new and has never been done before, when that's simply an inaccurate definition. You're saying BAT/TOD are avant garde, but Bjork's Medulla, an album made entirely from human vocalizations, isn't? You're right about Grace Jones - it was her visual presentation that was avant garde, not her music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 GetUnconscious, you're defining "avant garde" as something that is completely new and has never been done before, when that's simply an inaccurate definition. You're saying BAT/TOD are avant garde, but Bjork's Medulla, an album made entirely from human vocalizations, isn't? You're right about Grace Jones - it was her visual presentation that was avant garde, not her music. I was being half serious and somewhat facetious about BAT/TOD. The inspiration for that has to be Vaudeville, theatre, Fosse and the dance world in general. Regarding Medulla, there was music written purely for voice in Medievil times. Full rhythm sections, melodies, percussive singing and lyrical lead. The only difference was the recording or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phineaspoe Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I think, like Hard Candy, the wrong singles were chosen from MDNA. WHich often is said with the benefit of hindsight. But even at the time of the album's release, i think it became fairly obvious to most that the planned singles were not as strong as some of the album tracks. So you would've not released 4 Minutes? First? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacho Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnox Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 So you would've not released 4 Minutes? First? No, I would have released that first. But I think there were stronger singles that would have made a greater chart impact than Give It 2 Me and especially Miles Away. The Beat Goes On was a shoe-in for a single, but I guess she didn;t want to be seen releasing two singles in a row with rappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh76 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hard Candy's Timbaland production sounded old then and it still sounds old now. Timberlake's Mirrors is just so dated but so many other songs are too. Robin Thicke's song is Pharrell's GI2M production ripping off Marvin Gaye's Got To Give. It seems like that there isn't much originality around at the moment in the music or fashion worlds. The thing is...producers have their own "sound" and they can't really create a custom-made sound for everyone that they produce.I think,with Hard Candy,Madonna specifically wanted that sound.She had been listening to Justin Timberlake's album FutureSexLoveSounds and she wanted a piece of that sound.Timbaland and Pharrell were just giving Madonna what she wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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