Herfaceremains
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Posts posted by Herfaceremains
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Here’s the article.
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12 minutes ago, Ai Papi Si. said:
Yeah well she made a name for herself throughout the 90s and early 2000s for evolving into not only a pop legend but also having incredible vision with her music. Erotica, Bedtime Stories, and Ray of Light are incredibly different pieces of work and dabbled in multiple genres and are still credited today as career highlights. That was a sign of her creative confidence at the time. I also don’t buy this idea that her early stuff was generic. If that were true, no one would remember it and she wouldn’t be Madonna. Hard Candy was not generic (1-2 of the songs sucked, sure, and that was cuz there was too little Madonna and too much Pharrell or Timbaland) Who knows the consensus reason why general public had a milquetoast reaction to RH & MDNA but she wasn’t doing herself too many favors by letting that gaggle of producers take the reigns on those projects. You can hear it with your own ears on some songs. Doesn’t mean they were total failures, but I don’t know if they’re near the top of any Madonna fans favorite albums.
Madonna is at her best when she’s very confident and self assured. You can hear it on Erotica just as much as you can hear it on Music or Hard Candy. None of those albums sound remotely similar and yet the quality is top notch.
You’re absolutely right regarding her self-confidence, which is why I adore Crave. I hear plenty of it.
Just for the record, I would never have qualified anything Madonna did as generic. I simply mentioned that the producers of her first two albums had signature sounds that had been applied to multiple other productions by other artists pre-Madonna.
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6 minutes ago, Ai Papi Si. said:
I think the resistance on the part of some fans isn't necessarily related to genre, moreso related to wanting Madonna to stand out from the crowd musically. I think it would be the same frustrations if Madonna all of a sudden started working with Max Martin/Dr. Luke in the early 2010's or Stargate in the late 2000s...those guys were never hip hop producers, but they were mass music factories that gave dozens of artists hits that all sounded the same. There were similar concernes in 2008 and 2015 with HC and RH, and I think it's fine to want Madonna to stand out. Let's be real, we like her to be the consumate innovator because that's what a lot of us grew up with. She's mostly done a good job though even with the mainstream guys. Some of the stuff on Rebel Heart was excruciatingly cheesy but so far there's no sign that she's repeating those mistakes again. I like Crave, I just don't care much for the generic instrumental, wish it emphasized the guitar more. But if she's aiming for a hit in the USA, this isn't a bad place to start (I still don't think she'll get one because the music industry establishment is super good at resisting her, even at her best).
I understand the sentiment, but disagree with it. Mostly because much of Madonna’s early discography wasn’t innovative at all. Anyone who was listening to r n b in the late 70s to mid-80s could find a multitude of songs that preceded Madonna’s output and that sound quite similar. Reggie Lucas and Nile Rogers were tastemakers long before they worked with Madonna. And yet it’s with those songs that she made her name. And I loved them all. That’s why I don’t care if there’s a trap beat.
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3 minutes ago, CalinB said:
Love your review! I would like to copy the bolded section and post it as a comment once the song is on YouTube. Hope you are OK with that. But, if you want to post it yourself, just let me know. I have several ready to go.
With pleasure. Be my guest!
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Take away the trap beat and the production and it’s as anthemic as Jolene by Dolly Parton. Sucks for those who aren’t enjoying any of this. The song is gorgeous...sweet, soulful, melancholy, heartfelt. That bridge is so beautiful. But there has always been a fan faction that was resistant to Madonna’s r n b and hip hop affinities. Not sure why.
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1 hour ago, idro said:
Indeed...but you know some can t just take off the leotards...bella pe tutti
The leotard comment is everything.
I love everything Madonna is doing right now. It’s so natural and generous, and she is totally bringing the “high art” grande dame dynamic I have been wishing for for a decade! But that also comes at a cost to her commercial viability imho.
Madonna’s narrative heavily incorporates the ageism issue now, and there is indeed a great deal of truth to the phenomenon. It is a reality that 60 year-olds don’t generally resonate with the much younger pop demographic.
However, at the risk of incurring some wrath, I honestly think Madonna is simply not that popular anymore, particularly in America and the UK, because she is so associated with a cartoonish composite image of the negative end of the polarizing public dialog. She is being punished, but more because she is defined by an almost tabloidesque version of her accomplishments, rather than by her artistic legacy. I hear so many people immediately dismiss her music history in this age of totally bombastic revisionism that I have stopped caring what anyone else thinks.
I love Madonna. I feel so incredibly lucky to have lived her entire career firsthand as it happened, and the fact that she is giving me even more authentic Madonna vibes at this point than I could ever have imagined is just AMAZING!
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27 minutes ago, bardo said:
it's "allow them to." it's hard to tell because of the way she sings it and the effects.
Exactly. Sadly, I may have corrected that part, but managed to maintain the “too” instead of “to”. Now corrected. Lord have mercy. This is gonna be a long week!
Regarding the meaning @FeTuoni I totally see why you could understand the lyric that way. That was indeed the case for the sado-masochism of Justify My Love. However, it makes more sense in the context of a self-empowerment anthem that we can only be hurt if we allow someone to hurt us. Otherwise the message is anti-love. That doesn’t really fit in my opinion.
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On 5/4/2019 at 9:34 PM, CalinB said:
Freedom's what you choose to do with what's been done to you
No one can hurt you now unless you want them to (Unless you want)
No one can hurt you now unless you love 'em too (B.S.) Unless you love 'em too(I rise) I rise, I RISE!
I’m pretty sure she is saying “unless you allow them to”, not “unless you love em too”.
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The guitar gives me serious Physical Attraction vibes. The more I hear the song, the more complex it seems...like all of Madonna’s greatest.
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This is an amazing song. There may be elements of familiarity, but it’s totally unique, and perfects a style she’s been honing for a little more than a decade. I don’t think balladry is popular enough right now to make it worth releasing as a single and so they have wisely made it a tastemaker track, but it is easily as masterful a song as Frozen in my opinion.
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Perfect pop. Contemporary. Effortless. Light and dreamy. As the Guardian review mentions, there are some lyrical clunkers, but that has almost become a prerequisite for Madonna...just another expression of her uniqueness. And when The Guardian reviews a Madonna single within hours of release, you know it’s on fire. This will be a hit. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just not paying attention to how a global success works nowadays. This has a sliver of La Isla Bonita to it guaranteeing familiarity, but it builds into something less longing and melancholy and more celebratory...and I do hear a little bit Rythmn Divine by Enrique Iglesias in there! And essentially Maluma is the new Enrique.
Fine by me.
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The Libra full moon will have the contrarian voices out en masse! People are having a rough time with the energies of late. Looking for value outside of themselves...
But seriously...back to Madonna. Everyone should remember that how we experience anything is entirely dependent upon ourselves. You wanna hate the song, the album cover, the font, the video...then that’s what you’ll get. You don’t traditionally like reggaeton, or hip hop, or freakin opera for that matter, take a deep breath and ask your mind to be a little more open and make the experience one of discovery and joy. Because when Madonna does something, it is always different.
You love Madonna? Do yourselves a massive favor and get onboard. Otherwise, prepare to be disappointed. Experience is what makes a masterpiece.
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Maybe it wasn’t the planning of the album promotion that changed. Maybe her creative direction did. Madonna is an artist after all...She sort of announced this change herself when she complained about songwriter camps. Next thing we knew Mirwais was onboard, and his album was delayed. It all makes sense, and it’s kind of classic Madonna...Erotica, Bedtime Stories, Confessions, Rebel Heart. They all started one way and ended up another. the clues were all there. We even got Ray of Light demos leaking as if to guide is into understanding Madonna’s creative process!
It’s a good thing to be impatiently awaiting new material, but hold onto that feeling because it might be one of the last times you feel it for a Madonna release. Things come and go so fast these days that people will be onto something else two weeks after the album is out. Madonna knows this, and that is why she has some tricks up her sleeve for 2019.
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Perhaps some of the posts are meant with humor, but all the baseless and hysterical speculation regarding delays and misdirection is completely offensive to Madonna. I’d like to chime in to underline that the majority of her fans seem to be extremely excited about the potential implied by the length of time Madonna has spent focusing on creating this album...a year ago we were being told she had two films to direct, and her sole “creative” output appeared to be MDNA Skin. Now we are (naturally impatiently) waiting in anticipation of a new musical style and era, including a tour, that looks to be career-defining, groundbreaking and, dare I say, positively challenging; a dream for any fan considering she has been an active popular musician for 36 years! She’s chosen to focus on the part of her career that is most heralded and dearest to her fans. To me, that inspires nothing more than enthusiastic devotion and respect for her creative process. Artistry cannot be rushed, and if you want fast food, you go to MacDonald’s, not a 3-star Michelin rated restaurant. There are plenty of lower quality, and perhaps more prolific yet fun pop stars releasing singles and albums all the time. Enjoy those while you save up for the special occasion meal Madonna will deliver!
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Here’s an interpretation of the gay male perception of Madonna for anyone with the patience to read:
Gay men have always had a generationally-appointed diva, and each new generation rejects the previous one’s because gay culture has traditionally been defined by late-onset individuation due to the experience of societal intolerance. The narcissistic pursuit of belonging to the Zeitgeist is ironically the antithesis of individuation and Madonna’s entire philosophy, but Madonna always offered the opportunity to conform and rebel in equal measure, and sometimes concurrently. This gave us options. She also shared a strong sense of queer politics and aesthetics due to the culture she gravitated toward and was shaped by.
Gay people used to look to the cultural past for glimmers of familiarity, acceptance and acknowledgement coded into the works of those who didn’t fit in and who either overcame the odds (individuated triumph) or were consumed by self-destructive tragedy (toxic shame). The mainstreaming of gay identity politics has essentially erased the need for an isolated community of support, and now belonging to the gay collective is more like a country club membership system, hierarchy and discrimination included. In addition to this shifting dynamic less and less people under the age of 30 seem able to retain any information that isn’t condensed into an easily transferable sound bite to convey their “identity”, and so the past has become too arduous and dense to experience. It requires investment to attain multi-layered context; the historical, the cultural, and the individual.
Madonna was extraordinary in that she captured two distinct generations of youth culture in the mainstream, something that no other “gay diva” ever did, and probably never will again. Her rise coincided with a massive socio-cultural and economic shift in America, which she seemed to encapsulate perfectly, whether perceived with irony or taken literally. Her anthemic presence was a counterbalance to the dirge of AIDS. Some gay men who were either her peers or older hated her publicly, but followed her every move privately. Often those who hated her felt threatened by her because she challenged them to take ownership of themselves. Essentially Madonna rubbed people’s noses in their own shit, gay or straight, black or white. She wasn’t seeking the approval of anyone, and that irked a lot of people. When Madonna pursued a life that wasn’t relatable to some gay men by focusing on her family, seeking to address the problem of AIDS across Africa rather than America or Europe, and shifting her interest away from club culture, she became a pariah to them. A specific gay demographic that didn’t wish to conform to heteronormative values found itself faced with the dilemma of finding purpose beyond the clubs, the gym and grindr. Ironically, Madonna’s path is quite parallel, only she found something else, and this made her repellent to them, awakening their deepest insecurities.
For all the sociological exploration herein, one thing is certain. Madonna is exceptional, and will eventually be re-embraced as supreme in her support of the community and mainstream representational pioneering of queer and underground culture.
What happened a decade ago is, in my humble opinion, a total fabrication. Corporate culture essentially annointed the next Madonna because no one seemed to ever manage to eclipse her, which was extremely problematic for an industry that is all about youth...She wasn’t playing by the rules by outshining everyone ALL the time! Even when she didn’t sell, she was still top dog. I’m not sure why they picked Gaga to be elevated, but there must have been a checklist, and she matched the criteria required. The consistent erasure of the dialog about her mimicry as mediocrity, the lack of substance in her work and message, and her inability to connect with both mainstream and fringe cultures simultaneously (perhaps as a result of LGBTQ culture having fully integrated into the mainstream) make the Industry-wide support of her beyond questionable, but they have succeeded in creating a myth thanks to the generally uninquiring mind syndrome that plagues this rather peculiar generation. They have nothing to fight against as they are all defined by victimhood as the celebratory catalyst, whereas Madonna was about empowerment and transcendence. Some day soon intellect and curiosity will be traits to aspire to once again, and Madonna’s legacy will obliterate the falsehoods. That she seems intent on reminding the gays of her illustrious journey with the launch of her next era is definitely indicative of that resurgence.
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Speaking up about injustice and inequality isn’t actually political. It’s humanitarianism, which is what Madonna has been about for her entire career. It’s literally THE most Madonna thing she could do in order to continue on her journey as a world-renowned Activator.
Regarding the drag queens, it’s also kind of normal for there to be bitchy ego throwdowns...Madonna chose one over another, or one of them had the balls to take the risk and the others played it safe, then they got nasty and passive aggressive with each other, all tied up in a ribbon of defensive irony and attempts at humor. That’s been the essence of the community ever since its inception as far as I’ve been able to experience!
Long live Madonna! Everyone wants a piece of her. Even Beyoncé...who was in Bitch I’m Madonna after all.
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I think there’s a mixtape and an album.
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4 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:
So we have to be like fans of Kate Bush, Bjork etc now. Because you know fans of Madonna are not intelligent enough.
How you got there is unbeknownst to me, but that was not what I meant. Sorry you took it personally. Cheers, as always!
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Magic is the art of illusion. Perhaps that was the point of a mask and a filter? Where does reality begin? What I’ve noticed about a lot of our dialog as fans is that as the culture at large has been dumbed down, so has the search for meaning in Madonna’s work. Fanbases of singers/artists as diverse Kate Bush, Björk, PJ Harvey or Mylène Farmer seek symbolism and hidden reference in everything they do, but we complain about filters!
Year of The Pig! Time for us to step up and give Madonna what we want from her.
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On 2/4/2019 at 7:09 AM, loowee said:
Oh please who gives a fuck about Eurovision’s tackiness. It’s basically the biggest TV exposure anyone can get (even bigger than SB). M needs this platform to launch her new music/tour.
Exactly. If her performance is of a certain caliber and she makes herself newsworthy, the exposure worldwide in addition to the fact that everything she does gets talked about, if not necessarily out of popularity then out of legendary notoriety, is about as impactful as she can hope for. And to those saying that no one knows what Eurovision is in a America, I am American, and I witnessed the majority of online news sites increasingly feature talk of Eurovision In recent years. Every year they report on who won. Maybe we just don’t visit the same news portals? It isn’t about public interest...most of what appears online isn’t interesting to people. It’s space filler, and the press sees their role as being to dictate public interest.
I can also see that the potential to push the ABBA origins could be a great way of distinguishing Madonna from the trash of the competition itself! I mean, in addition to the Lottery Show in 98 she was dancing with dancing with Star Academy contestants on French TV in 2005.
Basically, when Madonna wants a hit she goes for the biggest audience, and it’s worked in the past.
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Everyone in America knows what Eurovision is if they go on the Internet. We don’t watch it, but we hear about it. If there was a viral moment, it would register with everyone online for at least a 12 hour news cycle. That’s massive in this retarded era of integrated numbskull attention spans.
British Vogue June 2019
in ARCHIVE - The MADAME X Forum
Posted
You’re welcome! It was a fucking nightmare finding it!