Etips
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Posts posted by Etips
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Another one of the things that makes me benevolently chuckle about the Bedtime Stories era is how much her quest to have a baby was played up in the media at the time. Anyone who can remember that period knows that this was like a sub plot to many of her interviews. And in retrospect it was very foreshadowing.
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^ Should have been for "Love Tried to Welcome Me." I don't know why she left that one off of Something to Remember, but it would have a better inclusion than "Forbidden Love" and a better 'late' single than the '96 release of "Love Don't Live Here Anymore."
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Doing my part.
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I agree. Madonna looked hideous during the very, very early promo she did for this album; like a middle aged hooker with Shirley Temple curls. Then she cleaned up a bit and started looking like Gwen Stefani.
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just to see how strong her voice was back then, try to listen first to 'Like a Virgin' and then to 'Secret'. the improvement is like...wow!!!
Doesn't even sound like the same singer, I agree. Both are equal opposite extremes of Madonna's voice.
Agreed. They sound completely different, HC is mostly uptempo while BS does not have any proper dance track and is filled with R&B ballads. I'd say that "Don't Stop" is kinda a throwback to her roots, it's basically "Everybody" in a SWV remix, but it's not a representation of the album at all.Apart from "Inside Of Me", which totally bores me, I think it's a great album, has a fantastic flow. Lyrically, it's also among her better ones, I'd even say it's one of her more mature albums. And even though it's very IN sounding, I don't think most of the album sounds dated today (in comparison to Erotica for example), "Sanctuary" or "Take A Bow" held up very well.
Indeed. Unlike Erotica, which virtually screams “1991/1992,” Bedtime Stories hasn't really aged at all. I think many of the tracks could be released (or re-released) as singles today and still sound as contemporary now as they did then. Along with Like a Prayer, it's Madonna's best preserved album.
Unfortunately, as pointed out, BS marks the start of Madonna and WB obviously clashing over singles choices (and fumbling with the long term promotion) to the point where it wound up hindering the album. If they had played their cards right, it probably could have yielded four or five hit singles and extended all the way up to the onslaught of “You'll See” and Something to Remember.
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Bedtime Stories is easily the smartest Madonna album of her career. People see the “Produced by Babyface” tag and want to dismiss it as disingenuous, stagnant, or fluff…but it actually clandestinely represents everything she is:
• It’s calculated, yet genuine → on one hand she absolutely was using its assessable commercial softness to slide out from under the negative shadow of the SEX period…but on the other, she implores you to listen to the music.
• It’s sexual → “I’d Rather Be Your Lover” / “Forbidden Love.”
• It’s confrontational and vindictive → “Human Nature.”
• It’s confessional, vulnerable and forlorn → “Survival” / “Love Tried to Welcome Me” / “Inside of Me” / “Take a Bow.”
• It’s experimental and foretelling → “Sanctuary” / “Bedtime Story.”
• It’s got songs with cryptic meanings → “Secret” / “Inside of Me” / “Bedtime Story.”
• It’s dance-y → “Don’t Stop” / “Bedtime Story”
Again, multiple facets of her personality (and the elements that usually comprise a Madonna album) are all over it. With it she proved how resilient she can be. After the darkest, most outwardly maligned, period of her fame, she immediately follows it up with a multi-platinum, Grammy-nominated album that featured the longest running chart topper of her career…and helped set the stage for her to get to play Evita, which had been a longtime career goal, and all seemed to come full circle with Ray of Light. With BS she literally outfoxed the same media that, for up to two years to that point, wouldn’t quit predicting that her career was over. Why so many people are down on this album is a little beyond me.
On one point, though, I do disagree with you. Bedtime Stories—sonically—wasn’t a ‘return to roots’ like Hard Candy was. If anything, it was a ‘moving on’ type of album. Comparing the two because they are both produced by hitmakers and are lightly urban-tinged is actually a gross oversimplification of them both. They have about as much in common as Like a Virgin and Erotica do.
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The funny thing is that during the same award ceremony, Madonna presented an award to Aerosmith. And when she went to kiss Steven Tyler, he turned his mouth away from hers too.
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Exactly!! "Hung Up" features extremely juvenile lyrics,as does "Hollywood","Sorry","Music","Impressive Instant" and numerous other Madonna songs from this decade.What's the difference between those lyrics and the lyrics on Hard Candy? For many years now,Madonna has been doing songs that younger artists could easily record.If you don't like Hard Candy,fine,but let's not pretend that Madonna has suddenly "dumbed down" her music on Hard Candy.
Furthermore, I don't see how walking through alley's, lounging in vans and dancing with young twenty-somethings made her look less silly than hanging out with Justin (who is a hop, skip and jump away from thirty.) Was she not old enough to be the mother of most of that posse she surrounded herself with in the music videos for "Hung Up" and "Sorry?" The excuses are getting thinner and thinner. This has nothing to do with whether or not Hard Candy sounds like it could have been recorded by Beyonce, Mariah, or whoever else was arbitrarily named. As was pointed out, most of that ever so sacred Confessions on a Dance Floor album could have been recorded by Disney Channel starlet, or European dance act. So to shame HC for being too 'common' and not being trendsetting enough, while holding up COADF, is disingenuous as hell.
This is about some people having a problem with Madonna not conforming to the box they feel most comfortable sticking her in and throwing a pretentious temper tantrum about it.
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I agree, how can anyone say COADF is a true return to her roots musically? Her first two albums were R&B-tingled pop, not Giorgio Moroder, ABBA or dozens of synth pop acts that were referred to on COADF. Neither her songs were as repetitive as on COADF (the 2 verse and chorus repeated till no end structure). Of course compared to ROL-Music-AL, it comes closest to her early days because of the fun factor, but HC totally made all the "COADF is back to basics" album theories irrelevant. The producers of HC explicitly stated they were studying her first album, I guess people just can't see beyond the names of the collaborators.
Sorry, but I think you have some different CD under the name Hard Candy, because it has nothing to do with Mariah, Beyonce, Janet etc. I think you have some serious problem with anything labeled "urban" and you totally overgeneralize the whole thing, only because Kanye does a rap in one song and Pharrell comes in for shout outs. If you really think that makes HC equal to "sixty other female r&b/pop albums" then I doubt anyone will be able to convince you... You clearly made up your mind and decided that HC is "not her", because it doesn't fit your vision of Madonna after 20+ years of fandom, but that won't make HC some "ghetto" album still.
Notice the dig he also took at Bedtime Stories. Seems like he made up his mind a long time ago that, for whatever reason, Madonna was supposed to be the “anti-Mariah.” So anything she does that contradicts that perception—his perception—is going to be condescended and generalized. Madonna, however, never promised anyone that she would be forever be their alternative to the R&B diva, or that she shared some covert disdain/creative detachment for that particular genre, or for hip hop. I don't understand how anyone could look at her entire (not just 1998 on up) body of work and still come to that conclusion.
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I actually think that album would be better than Hard Candy.
I dunno, I don't mind the r&b/guest-stars thing when it's Mariah, Beyonce, Mary J. Blige, Rihanna, etc...., but Madonna is supposed to be head and shoulders over the competition and she's always done her own thing with a "fuck the masses" thing, yet IMO Hard Candy is an album that any of the aforementioned artists could've done just as well. She's always been so individualistic and different from her contemporaries. The reason people are still disappointed in the album is because Madonna can do so much better than an album Mariah can do in her sleep.
I think Warner at least expected Hard Candy to sell a million. If COADF could do it, why not HC with the biggest single since "Music" and with several A-list producers?
Right, Madonna's previous music has never sounded similar to what others have had out during the same period. Songs like "Vogue," "Rescue Me," "Deeper and Deeper" were sonically unique, and weren't at all akin to other music at the time by...say...Cathy Dennis, Taylor Dayne, KWS, or Blackbox.
It's kidding oneself to believe that a Confessions Part II, released by a label that is apathetic to promoting new material by the soon departing artist, during a period where album sales are at an all time low would do better than Hard Candy. Meanwhile, I can't think of any Mariah album that sounds anything like it.
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I almost want WB to dig into the Madonna vault and piece together another album of material recorded from 1997 to 2005 that did not make it onto the final tracklistings of Ray of Light, Music, American Life and Confessions on a Dancefloor. Have SP remix it, and release it next month under the title Confessions II. Just so we can see how a sequel to that album wouldn't be a blockbuster. In a climate where a triple platinum album is like going seven or eight times platinum in 2001, I would love to know what Hard Candy was supposed to do in sales, especially considering how she hasn't had a studio album move staggering units since, arguably, True Blue.
Darren Hayes spoke without knowing what he was talking about. It was confirmed weeks ago that there won't be a Madonna/Lil' Wayne collaboration. For him to even go on some cynical little tirade about what doesn't even exist (and therefore he hasn't heard) makes him look ignorant. Maybe even envious. Must have been a real kick in the groin for him to hear gossip that Madonna would work with Lil Wayne (who did not record a silly idol-worshipping cover to "Dress You Up") while knowing the closest he'd get to her would be to buy a concert ticket.
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Say something nice about it? Well, at least Don McLean was gracious enough about her covering it (even if his fans weren't.)
Never really understood the significance of why this was recorded for the soundtrack though. Doesn't match the film. On the radio here, they used to play this really cheesy, hyper tempo'd dance remix of it. I remember being at the gym at the time while the club had the radio on and the song played. One of the guys on the workout floor snidely remarked: 'I can't believe this bitch desecrated a classic like that.'
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I don’t like Lil’ Wayne. I think he’s weird…overrated…and comes off like a buggy cartoon character. I haven’t liked anything he’s done, including that silly “Lollipop” song. That’s just my personal opinion of him. However…
I’m still not totally understanding the tone of indignation being displayed here. From what we know so far, the new song seems to be slated to be on his album…not hers. If this is true, then this probably means that he reached out to her, and that no Madonna fan really even has to tolerate it if they care not. Just don’t buy his album or download the song. Should she have turned him down just for the sake of being superior and above it all?
I don’t see this as being like working with Britney at all. Unlike Britney, Lil’ Wayne hasn’t made a career of playing off hackneyed comparisons to Madonna and he doesn’t idol worship her in the media (while Madonna, herself, blushes with an obviously stroked ego.) This collaboration also isn’t attempting to latch onto the hype of a VMA spectacle at a time when both of them could use fast hit. I assume if they did work together, it was done out of mutual curiosity/esteem; not some compulsive need for her to stay thirty-five. So why not? I don’t remember there being this much ire when it was announced that she was recording a duet Ricky Martin after his Grammy spectacle made him the toast of the town.
I’ll be honest, the level of cynicism Madonna has been garnering from her fans these past two years because she dared to lightly explore the waters of ‘urban’ music, at times, comes off as very…suspect. I wonder if it really makes that much of a difference to some if Madonna worked with Lil’ Wayne or The Roots…Timbaland or John Legend. Hell, Kanyé is probably the ‘Madonna’ of his genre and at times tries to push the envelope…and yet there were those who had a problem with her working with him, and still resent it. Some—not all, but definitely some—folks just have a not so inconspicuous infuriation with their pure pop Madonna messing with “that kind” of music.
Some fans like to think that Madonna exists on her own island and have a snobbish perception who she is and what she’s [not] supposed to be. How and why some think that the woman whose first top five hit had a hook that went “starlight, star bright, first star I see tonight…” and another bouncy hit a few years ago that featured the lyrics: “ring, ring, ring goes the telephone…” is some kind of Avant-Grade ambassador to the mainstream is just baffling to me. Oddly enough, though, that exceedingly haughty outlook willingly embraces Abba samples and the thought of her again collaborating with a producer she worked with twenty years ago on fluffy fare like “Who’s That Girl” and “Cherish,” but nothing overtly American…nothing apparently commercially-friendly…and for God sakes, nothing “black.”
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Noise? What r u..a Donny Osmond fan?
So because I called what is (IMO) a cluttered mix of random, discombobulated sounds "noise," I'm condescended as being a Donny Osmond fan. Sure.
BTW, I do like his song "Sacred Emotion." Like it better than anything on American Life, actually.
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i can assure you that when madonna attended the spice girls or britney - my opinion has NEVER shifted - not even for a second.
Ditto. Madonna's picked up this irksome habit of championing flakey tart singers who have publicly kissed her behind. Her personal endorsement of Kylie, Spice Girls and Britney did not enlighten me to them in the slightest. If anything, it annoyed me so much that I clung harder to my original opinion. I can't be manipulated like that. I don't know much about GaGa. The phenomenon of her has largely flew over my head; I couldn't even hum the tune to one of her songs. Madonna's being seen at one of her concerts, meanwhile, does nothing to inspire me to want to learn more about her either.
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I liken American Life to the sound of a jackhammer running while a cat is having its tail pulled. From start to finish the album is just gaudy. Electronica mixed with folk has to be the tackiest meshing of sounds I've ever heard. It's the sonic equivalent to wearing a green shirt with red pants. Madonna seemed like she was deliberately going for another eclectic/deep type of album, ala Like a Prayer and Ray of Light, then attempted to wing it when she discovered that she wasn't inspired. "Material Girl" did a better job of conveying the message that the whole AL album wanted to, but couldn't.
I suppose the album has this underdog appeal that gives it enigma points to those who get off on extreme atypical, but I just see it as noise.
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Madonna's working with DJ Franke? Uhoh. If some people had a problem with Pharrell and Tim for not being Stuart enough, I really wonder how they will react to her working with this guy. He's not underground electronica or Euro-centric dance/pop. This guy has worked with T-Pain and T.I.
Maybe Oakenfold will cushion the blow.
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Bring Mirwais back..
Meh.
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I think she needs to leave the horses alone after this.
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Yeah, I suppose. But if there were to be a US version of her greatest hits since GHV2...it'd be a CD single. I think the term "hits" is purely semantic in this case.
Pretty much. Just do a six minute melody mix of DAD, AL (since it did manage to crawl into the top 40), HU and 4M. They can tack it onto the end of the Madonna 1983-2008 boxset as a bonus, and name the track "GHV3." Just so there are no hard feelings, Price, Oakenfold...or, hell, even the PSB have my blessing to come in and mash them together.
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IMO, it wouldn't be a Madonna hits collection without TAB.
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Since this is the last thing WB will release with Madonna's involvement, I don't see why they don't just go all out and do a comprehsive collection that includes every top forty Hot 100 hit she ever had. If it has to be streteched into a multi-disc boxset, then so be it. I'd hate to see another hits collection released where real hits are again omitted. One of the many reasons I can't listen to TIC is because I find the exclusion of certain songs to be bogus. I also have no interest in remixes/reworkings either. I just want the version that was popular at the time. If it was a situation like "Borderline," "Express Yourself" and/or "Rain" where the single remix was the radio hit, then fine...but I hope she doesn't get all Madonna-y and decide to have someone tinker with what wasn't broken. Spare me a Price/Oakenfold reworking of "Like a Prayer." Not interested. But my main point here is that I think they, this time, should make an effort to include all of her hits, instead of selecting a tracklisting based on which they think still hold up better than others.
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I don't see what's so terrible about the general public liking a song, simply because they do...as opposed to them liking it because it's Madonna. It's ok to just like something that you hear on the radio and buy it, without suddenly jumping on the artists overall bandwagon.
Last spring when I was at work, someone turned on the radio, and 4M was playing. A co-worker of mine started casually swaying to it like no big deal. I imagine that she wasn't a Madonna fan, but probably was the type who would have went ahead and bought the single if she saw it on display. Considering how polarizing public opinion of Madonna can sometimes be, I actually find it refreshing when she does something that casually appeals to the general public who aren't necessarily fans of her. To stay relevant, you sometimes have to go outside of what your established listening audience would want or expect. Especially when you're someone like Madonna, whose music isn't always mainstream-appealing.
Ignoring that albums, in general, don't sell like they used to...HC and the follow-up singles didn't do as well as they could have because (again) Madonna and WB didn't continue to ardently promote after the run of 4M. GI2M was a poor choice for a second single, but in retrospect any other song probably would have suffered in its place, with WB's aloof commitment and Madonna's pouring all of her energy into the planning a tour instead.
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I doubt that a PSB-produced Hard Candy would have moved more than the 700k units that the one in stores did. I suspect that it would have been off the Billboard 200 in half the time, and probably sold more than 100k less. Nevermind 20 Y.O., I’m imagining a reception closer to Discipline. As for “Give It 2 Me,” didn’t most of us predict that it would flop? It’s not the type of song radio plays. Furthermore, Madonna and Warner Bros. did next to nothing to promote it. So whose fault is it, really?
I think it’s silly to resent a song that brought Madonna the most radio attention she’s had in nearly a decade, just because Justin was attached to it and because some people perceive it to be a sound like “Fergie.” What was the alternative, her churning out more music that sounds like “Kylie,” and being totally shut out?
Bedtime Stories Appreciation Thread!
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
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