Etips
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Posts posted by Etips
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Let's arrange a lunch for her and Benny Medina.
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As I said in another thread, I think Madonna was trying to make another introspective and eccletic album -- ala LAP and ROL -- but this time was woefully misguided, poorly inspired, and in the end produced sludge. Every time I hear "I'm So Stupid," I think of "Live to Tell" and am perplexed as to how a twenty-something Madonna could write the latter, while a forty-something Madonna came up with the former. The entire album sounds unfinished; like a collection of preliminary scratch demos in severe need of a reworking that they never got. I've never been one of those fans clamoring for the return of Leonard, but if there was ever a time when he was needed to come in and clean house, and work out the kinks, American Life was it.
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Look what someone made! For those of you who prefer the album version....
This is much better. I even like how they edited the dancing sequences in slower motion. Makes the whole thing a little more tempered, and less annoyingly spastic.
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That's a bit of flawed logic, I don't see why would it sell without any exposure. Sales are very connected to airplay, you know the UKers will blame it on Radio 1 not putting it to A-list instantly when "Celebration" fails to become a 3-4 week #1 ("the new Hung Up", as it got labeled).
I think some people were expecting a "Hung Up" type of scenario; where the song gets poor airplay, but it (being the lead single from a new project) generates enough buzz for sales to still be healthy. I knew radio wouldn't touch "Celebration," but I figured Madonna fans would take to iTunes in drones to catipult it to a decent chart position, in spite of it.
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Celebration was DOA. When I heard the snippet I figured it wouldn't do particularly well but I didn't think it would bomb THIS hard. I thought it might limp into the top 40 since it was the 1st single from a new project but dang. This is in the same ballpark as I WANT YOU. lol And this time no one can even blame the flop on ageist radio because it isnt selling either. Maybe REVOLVER can pick up the slack & do something but CELEBRATION is done.
True.
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I think the problem is that every time Madonna starts working on a new album, too many of her fans want another Like a Prayer/Ray of Light. Both of those albums came from an honest, organic crossroads in her life and career. Like a Prayer seemed to be inspired by the introspection that comes from a failing marriage and turning thirty. Ray of Light came from the personal and professional milestones of having gotten to successfully play Evita and becoming a mother. History has shown us that some sort of life-shattering, eye-opening, or enlightening experience has to take place for Madonna to get in *that* kind of a creative mood. She can't forge that sort of thing. That was the problem with American Life. I think she approached that project with the intent of creating another seminally abstract work (ala LAP and ROL) and during the process discovered that she wasn't particularly inspired, had nothing to draw from, and attempted to wing it for the rest of the way through. When Madonna tries to be "creative" and off-kilter, it can be a train wreck. And when she tries to please fans by giving them what she thinks they want to hear, it rings insincere. For the next album, Madonna should do whatever it is she wants to do. If it were up to me, she'd go back to pre-1998, and just do music that sounds good to her...not try to stomp out new territory for the sake of being "creative," high brow or to impress. Maybe without that kind of pretentious pressure on her back she'll inadvertently do something especially "creative" again. In the meantime, fans need to quit begging for Ray of Light part 12, or expecting her to reinvent the wheel with every new release.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BZpnIxqkoQ
Should have been a single. In fact, it should have followed 4M. -
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Should have been a single. In fact, it should have followed 4M.
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Any chance of it pulling an "Obsessed?"
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Wasn't as dramatic as I was anticipating it to be. It looked like she was momentarily disoriented, and then was fine.
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Any word on it yet? I heard it was supposed to be released this month, but now that seems doubtable.
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I didn't like it. The remix is way too fast, the shots were too quick and choppy, and Madonna's dancing was too spastic and all over the place. She looked like she was having a seizure (plus that terrible wig and dress was akin to something a middle-aged swinger, circa 1970, would wear.) The whole thing came off like a Kylie Minogue video. If she's planning on doing a video for "Revolver," I hope it's better than this.
But since the release of the video seemed to be the last piece of the puzzle, let's see if it does anything at all to help the songs airplay, sales, and chart position.
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I think he is her all time tackiest collaborator and would rather she never works with him again. Mirwais' production is akin to wearing a green vest with burgundy pants. Just gaudy. I was able to digest certain songs he did on Music, but his shtick got old quick. The American Life album proved that he was a one trick pony.
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I don't understand why mid-tempos and ballads can't be celebrated, or considered cause for celebration. I think the 'big' production of "You'll See," and the conspicious power house vocals she displays on it, is every bit as exciting as "Music" or "Hung Up." Unfortunately, so many of her fans want her music to be endlessly hyper-tempo'd, and like to discount those middle 90s sing-song years. And I think that attitude has gotten back to Madonna, herself, to point where she over-compensates after doing something that wasn't so danceable. Personally I've always like button-down, serious, ballad-y Madonna equally as much as I do her upbeat side.
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People keep on pointing out that the omitted songs/videos can be found other CD/DVD compilations, but couldn't that also be said about most of what did make the cut? The music videos for "Lucky Star" and "Ray of Light" are on other collections too. What makes them so much more special that they get to be again included on this latest compilation, while a handful of others got the shaft? Look, no one likes seeing their favorite Madonna songs snubbed. And that's sort of what it feels like. Tickled to death that I'll get to see "Borderline" for the billionth time, but pardon me for being slightly insulted that a few other songs/videos that hold extra special significance to me (like TUTBMP) get treated as though they weren't 'special' enough to be included on what's being treated as Madonna's definitive hits collection.
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Absolutely agree. Nobody who is a non-Madonna fan knows these songs. The inclusion of 'Everybody' I can understand because it's her first release...but 'Burning Up' doesn't make sense despite it being one of my all-time favourite Madonna tracks. I don't care if it was a big hit in some underground New York tranny shamehole - that doesn't make it a hit.
I agree. I can narrowly overlook the inclusion of "Everybody," since that was her 'inaugural' single and all. Fine. One flop included for sentimental purposes can be dismissed. "Burning Up," however, makes no sense on any hits collection. It's not as if I don't like the song either; in fact, I like it about a hundred times better than I do something like "Hanky Panky," but since HP was a top ten, gold selling hit, I would give more justification to it being here than BU - even if I don't like it nearly as much. And there's no rationale in the world that will make me concede to respecting BU's inclusion over TUTBMP. A chart topping single being omitted, while one that didn't even make the Bubbling Under Charts sits pretty like it was a torch song is just baffling. It would be different if this was like a Samantha Fox greatest hits album. Someone like her only had so many hits, so including some poorly performing singles to fill up space makes sense. Madonna, though, has enough real hits for literally a box set. I shouldn't be seeing songs like "Burning Up" and "Hollywood" on any of them. Makes me wonder where "Bedtime Story" is.
As far as the lasting impact argument goes...I probably haven't heard Playground played on the radio since 1992, however, to this day I've never heard "Burning Up" (or "Everybody") anywhere except for when one of the video channels decides to get in a hardcore Madonna mood. I was annoyed by the exclusion of "Who's That Girl" on The Immaculate Collection, but unlike here, at least nothing else made the cut over it that was an actual flop.
Oh well. It's Madonna's greatest hits...best of collection, so she decides what makes the cut. Just like it's my $21.99. All I can say is that remaster of "Into the Groove" better be on point.
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Jesus wants to be a deejay? Dare to dream. If Madonna gives him nothing else, she should gladly be willing to pull enough strings to help him out with that career goal. The question is, would he play her records afterwards?
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The versions most people know are what play(ed) on the radio; not Shep's Q-Sound tinkering. Casual fans bought The Immaculate Collection because it was the only near-definitive hits album she had. I'm sure a few of them probably noticed that many of the songs didn't sound exactly the same as they remembered.
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I just don't understand why they don't put the single versions on the tracklisting. Since this is a greatest hits album, they should go with the versions that were hits. In the case of "Borderline" and "Express Yourself," the remixes of both songs became more notable than the originals, so I'd be fine with having them appear here as they did on The Immaculate Collection -- but the dance remix of "Like a Prayer" wasn't the version that was popular. To this day, I've *never* heard that version played anywhere over the air. My biggest problems with the TIC has always been that they butchered most of the songs; making them either too short, cutting out important elements that were originally there, and/or giving them a bunch of unnecessary added effects. Most of them they didn't sound as crisp/refined as they originally did. They, instead, sound faded and dull. Again, what is the logic in not putting on the versions that radio mostly played during their original stint?
It's been nearly twenty years, so I can now shrug my shoulders at my TIC gripes. I don't really listen to it much anyway. But I was hoping that most of what disenchanted me about that hits collection wouldn't be repeated here. This time I would have liked to be able to listen to the album and have the songs take me back, as opposed to listening and feeling irritated or disillusioned because what I'm hearing is a hacked rendition.
All that aside, I'm *still* grumbling over the exclusion of chart topping "This Used to Be My Playground," while a small handful of songs that either modestly performed, or outright flopped, conspicuously made it on. Leave it to Madonna to exclude a number one single from a greatest hits album.
Meh.
Just to keep my collection updated I'll probably buy the album, but I doubt that I'll be making a mad dash to the record store on release day to pick it up. In fact, I don't think I'm going to be all that irked when Mariah beats her first week sales.
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I'm still having a hard time reconciling TUTBMP not being there. IMO, all twelve of her Hot 100 number one singles should have automatically been included. This becomes even more sore when I see the likes of "Burning Up," "Hollywood" and "Sorry" listed.
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A shame they included "Everybody," "Sorry," "Burning Up," "Miles Away" and "Hollywood." In its places, they could have put some *real* hits like: "Angel," "Keep It Together," "Causing a Commotion," "True Blue," "You'll See," "I'll Remember," or "This Used to be My Playground." Seems very silly to me that a chart topper like TUTBMP didn't make the cut, but a mega flop like "Hollywood" (which in my opinion is just another variation of "Beautiful Stranger") did.
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the two tims have released dance music and had no1's - they were not in the vein of hung up/sorry but still its not the style of music.
The two Tim's are popular at radio. They can get away with coming out of left field with a dance song, and have it be embraced. It wasn't their dance music, though, that brought them their clout.
rihanna has released some dance singles and they were huge. over the last years quite a lot of younger artists and "urban-r'n'b" artists have released dance/electro songs and have done well.Acts like Rihanna, Chris Brown, Neyo, Beyoncé are at the height of their fame. They too can get away with sporadically releasing stand alone dance music, in amongst the rest of their music. Neyo's fans won't turn on him for one "Closer." If he started only releasing songs like that, though, he may stand to alienate people. It's not his bread and butter, nor is it the the foundation of what makes him popular with audiences.
madonna's music is not freaky. i dont see how or why americans cant relate to it. too many people talk as if she comes out with something really strange.I didn't say that her music was 'freaky.' I said that she tends to be stylistically out of sync with the general tastes of commercial audiences in the US, and that it has as much to do with her resistance at radio as her age is.
4 minutes was only played because of jt. without him i doubt it would have done any better than hung up.Oh for petesake. If Justin had some sort of magic touch, then he should have gotten Reba McIntyre and Duran Duran airplay too. His duet with Ciara was well received, but didn't match the success of 4M. Hell, some of Justin's own music has failed to do the same business as 4M. Insisting that 4M was played on the radio, or that it was only a success, because of him is a transparent attempt by some Madonna fans who don't like the song to separate her from it.
take a bow was almost 15 years ago. she was younger.She was the same age when "Bedtime Story" and "Human Nature" failed to go top forty immediately after. She was even younger when "Bad Girl" barely did. US radio doesn't hate Madonna like some believe. It just doesn't always connect with her direction, and probably assumes that much of it would be met with an underwhelmed reaction from their listeners. While I do think that those assumptions tend to be too automatic and prejudiced, I also think that there is probably some truth in it too.
In 2001 when the Drowned World Tour was about to begin, the local station here were giving away tickets. When a caller asked why the station didn't play her music more, the disc jockey cynically remarked that she's doing techno now (as opposed to making a crack about her age.) I think that's the general attitude that disconnects Madonna and radio. Of course they don't like her age, but it's more than that.
miles away is not something totally alien. its just a pop song which could cross any culture. theres nothing gypsy in it. its so universal."Miles Away" had the burden of following the flop that was "Give It 2 Me," and worst of all not being promoted at all. The song wouldn't have been my first choice for a single…but it is radio friendly enough. Had Madonna/WB bothered to try and promote it at all, I could easily see it being able to go top twenty with the right push. They didn't, so it flopped. No one knew about the release except hardcore Madonna fans. Hits don't make themselves.
its about time us radio started playing more artists and open up a bit. its changed a lot since 2006 - its been ok to do pop and dance music now. techno/electro/dance has influenced a lot of urban and r'n'b artists now.Very debatable. As I mentioned earlier, young R&B acts at the height of their fame can get away with an intermittent dance song every now and then, sandwiched in between their more standard singles. Their popularity gives the leverage to momentarily step outside of their usual container with something uncharacteristic without it being automatically shunned. However, with the exception of Rihanna (who is so all over the place with what she does that it wouldn't be totally accurate to put a concrete "R&B" label on her) I can't think of too many who do it with enough frequently that it proves much. Madonna is not in True Blue-era anymore. Her challenging the status quo with overstated dance and/or electronic music has a greater potential to be rejected.
who said dance music does nt sell? if it sells, they should play it on radio too.Country sells, but doesn't get exceptional airplay outside country formatted stations. The Eagles sell, but they don't get played. American Idol winners debut singles sell, but radio tends to be very cynical about putting it on. There's always been somewhat of a disconnect between what sells and what plays on the radio.
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I just wanted to add that so many like to say that it was the two Tim's who got “4 Minutes” on the radio, but would their presence on songs like “Sorry” or “Jump” (with the same production, style) made those songs be as well received? I think songs like 4M and “Take a Bow” are harrowing examples that radio will play Madonna when she gives them something not so contrary to everything else on their playlist. I think Madonna's gypsy attitude when it comes to her music often scares or underwhelms commercial top 40 radio, then add her age on top of it, and they probably feel like their listeners won't able to relate to her.
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There’s no question that Madonna’s age hinders her reception at top 40 radio. But is it just that? Or it is it that her typical music style just doesn’t resonate with station managers—and US radio listeners? Personally, I think it’s both…plus fatally sluggish/haphazard promotion from WB. So many are looking forward to Mariah turning the big 4-0, assuming that when it happens radio will finally get off her straps, but I have a feeling that when she is 45+, she’ll be like Elton/Cher/Aretha/Tina—scoring the last of her number one’s.
Despite all the critical and commercial acclaim the album received, I can remember there being a feeling that the Ray of Light singles faced a tougher road because of how dissimilar they were compared to everything else on the radio. I also recall when “Sorry” was the number one song in the world, someone wrote Chart Beat’s Fred Bronson, asking why it was huge everywhere else but America. His answer wasn’t that Madonna was too old for radio, but instead that bombastic dance music like it wasn’t “in” with US radio listeners.
So, in your opinion, what is (or has been) the bigger barrier between Madonna and US radio: her age, or is her music just stylistically out of sync with programmers/listeners?
Does Madonna Need A New Manager?
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
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I don't know why so many Madonna fans have it in their heads that working with an unknown producer means substance or superior quality.