neutrocks
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Posts posted by neutrocks
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Wow you rock.. I agree 100% with everything you said.. you are obviously a true Madonna fan and I for one can feel the love and respect.
When I came online and first went to Madonna message boards was around the time American Life came out.. to hear so many negative things said about her took away some of the magic of being a fan, that is for certain.
People do need to release that they are not getting the message and they need to get a life of their own and stop wasting countless hours coming up with this shit.. all the press have to do is come to a Madonna board to get all the amunition they need to use against her.
You're absolutely right!! I've thought that for a long time. I mean; sometimes I feel like I stepped in on an anti-fan board when I go to fan boards. It's one thing to bust her chops for shits and grins, but some just take it too fuckin' far. And then they turn it into a fuckin' pissin contest with other fans when in the end, we're here for the same damn reason.
And some wonder why Madonna gets criticize to death in the press/media. The media pretty much are chop liver compared to fans. Shit, Madonna doesn't need critics when she has her fans who criticize her to death.
Oh, I am sure someone will simply try to sum it up as it's "all in fun"... yeah, no different when black people call other black people the "N" word. It's all in appreciation. Sorry, I don't buy that. It's just an excuse to be negative to prove you have some balls on the internet. But you don't, because the moment you sign off from the forum, you're still the sorry ass loser you were before you signed on!
I call it as I see it. Anyone who takes offense to what I say... they probably should because what I said struck a chord... rang home... or why would it even offend them?
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Then what harm is there in poking fun at her inconsistencies, her taste in men, her choices? It's all just chit-chat. It's easily ignored, certainly.
I think there's more appreciation here than criticism, anyway.
I wouldn't say it's easily ignored when it's almost every other thread. I'm mean the stupid ass goon right above me (NOT JIM) just proves my point. He rather pop in here to take pot shots at fans and other entertainers, rather discuss anything intelligent!! He rather assume we're asking people to kiss Madonna's ass, when I specifically stated several times I didn't ask anyone to kiss Madonna's ass or worship her like she's perfect. Hell, I know she's not perfect, but fuck if I am going to spend countless hours dissecting it. It's just stupid as shit!!!
But you're right, I can simply just stop going to Madonna forums. And for the most part, I do!! I occasionally just come in to check what's up on various forums these days. No doubt, there is still some appreciation, but it's pretty buried.
Off my pedestal and crawl back into my corner!!
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Sorta agree but would add not just on Madonna boards but all over the internet on non Madonna boards as well.
I suspect there is some truth to that, but I find it much more on Madonna message boards. The internet fans are highly superficial, judgmental and intolerant and it's getting to the point that I can't stand to come to a fan board anymore. No one wants to talk about their appreciation for Madonna. They rather sit around and judge other people, even Madonna, criticize her every freakin' move. Some fans think they are way better photographers, directors, writers, managers, musicians and so on. Well, if so... why is Madonna still one of the most famous women in the world, while most fans are sitting in their fuckin' bedrooms debating Madonna's personal choices.
And I suspect some smart ass will come in and say.... "Sorry, but we don't suck up to everything she does!" Who said you had too. You certainly have right to dislike or offer your disapproval, but not to the extent that you're spending 60 pages, debating her so called relationship with Jesus or how insane you think she is studying Kaballah, etc.
She's an entertainer to me. What she does in her personal life is her business. No doubt, she'll intergrate some of those personal experiences in her music act. But that's what ALL artists do. Hell, there is no way in hell Madonna would still be as famous as she is, if she just wrote boring old love songs and then disappear for a couple years. Madonna is Madonna because she is a public persona, but even that persona is not true to whom she really is.
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Not the most flattering picture of him. I have to say though, he gets viciously attacked here by some for what reason exactly?? Come on.....he may not be YOUR cup of tea but you can't say he's ugly....get real. I know for the ones who always MUST be "different" to be "cool" will say he's the nastiest, greasiest thing to ever come out of Brazil but get a grip morons. The guy is good looking and recognizing that doesn't mean you want to fuck him or think he's the best thing since sliced bread. I just find it utterly ridiculous and FAKE when some continuously drone on about how worthless and ugly he is. Meanwhile they would be the first ones to hop in bed with him given the opportunity. Rather transparent wouldn't you say?? :vanitybonet:
It's because the majority of Madonna fans are the most intolerant, superficial, selfish, and overbearing judgmental people I've ever come across... especially on the internet. It greatly fascinates me how some fans turn everything in an ugly or beauty contest here. And what's funny is that many of these people rarely show their own face to prove they are any better looking.
I hardly want to step in and make such judgments against my fellow Madonna fans, but I can't lie. I've been among message boards of all kinds throughout the years and the truth of the matter is that the majority of Madonna fan boards are crawling with members who are highly full of themselves and quite hypocritical to the messages Madonna has been conveying throughout the last 25 years.
The huge message over the years that I've always got from Madonna is to be tolerant of others no matter what race, creed, sexuality, etc. And I would think with her fan base being mostly gay, most fans would relate to that, but they don't. They do the exact same things they criticize others who judge them regarding their sexuality, etc.
It's one thing to be proud of whom you are and ignore the ignorance, but some take it way too far.
So anytime I hear someone making a snide remark about other people, celebrities or even their own fellow Madonna fans, especially regarding appearance, my first thought... "show yourself".
Jesus may look stupid, ugly, ridiculous or whatever to you, but he has the last laugh... he's making a lot more money looking "stupid, ridiculous...." while you sit here, wasting your time criticizing him and other people.
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September is the best month to release new album, sales wise. in time for holiday season. Just wait and see this album will earned double than any other past album of M.
and her new single should be released same month. like Revolver perhaps.
Actually, I would assume earlier being she most likely has plans to tour with the new song(s). If not, It'll be the first time since "Like A Virgin", Madonna has performed a new single before it's been released.
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I suspect whatever the set list is going to be, it will include more than one new song. I'm sure the goal is to put out a definitive Greatest Hits that will appeal to the masses, which most likely include all the songs fans already had on her previous compilation albums/studio albums, yet include new songs which will definitely persuade the fans to buy it.
Honestly, I can't imagine buying a GH's that simply add all the songs I've already had. I'm past buying something just for the pretty picture and such. But if you include new songs, I'll buy it.
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Good to hear if true, but it's "The Sun". Isn't that just a tabloid?
Shame that Madonna goes on tour in less than a month. I would think Madonna would want to spend as much time as possible with Mercy to get her settled, before she treks all across Europe to tour again.
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Thanks for the links... for the download.
Being a .vob file, it's even more promising that this very wlll be from the DVD.
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I love Pink!! I love Madonna. Both have unique voices I enjoy!! That is all that matters.
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What a load of crud!! Madonna is a touring act now. That's where her bread and butter is. Albums, singles and videos are only going to be mostly appreciate by fans. If she was "so over", then the woman wouldn't bother putting on extravagant shows as she has.
When will some of you learn? You don't keep milking albums by releasing singles or putting out videos if the demand isn't there. By that I mean... if radio and video stations aren't going to play her stuff.
Some of you are going to get further and further disappointed by setting yourselves up when Madonna is merely going to concentrate mainly on stage shows more and more!!
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Its a no brainer. Its being released to push tour prevelance. They want to sell tickets. As far as being creative visually now...look at her stage performances, her live DVDs and you will realise where the energy is being spent. I love her best music videos. Even her performances. But lets face it, music videos are becoming disposable. For her to make some great visual pieces would be very possible, but for the money to come about for her to do so would be less possible...because singles just don't create revenue and unless you are a tween sex symbol videos dont sell singles these days. WHEN WILL YOU PEOPLE REALISE THIS?
I have to agree with this. I think some people are forgetting this is just a promotional video. It's not intended to be released to the public. I must wonder why they didn't release this when the single was released just to back up the single more, but it seemed by "Give It 2 Me"... Warner abandoned promoting HARD CANDY. By then, Madonna was on tour and that is where she gets paid, not making videos to sell singles that won't sell.
I also wonder if this isn't going to part of the extras on the DVD. It would be cool to finally get a tour DVD with a lot of cool extras. We got a few last time around, but let's hope this time, they go all out. I mean it's not like they had to rush to put it together since the DVD isn't plan to be released after more than a year when the first leg of the tour began.
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What she ACTUALLY said was that she wouldn't be "running around in limos at 50". Don't make her repeat the lyrics of Give It To Me (or more to the point ask someone else what they are!)
For anyone not able to access the clip it's the one where she bare facedly denies saying saying exactly what she DID say and getting all arsey with John Norris over it who in turn gets all snippy with her. It's a little uncomfortable for both. Justin's a twat. And a stoned twat by the looks of it.
To be fair, John Norris was prolonging this interview more than needed. It was apparent to everyone including John, Madonna was ready to go. It was becoming like a guest over staying his welcome shortly before it got to this point.
By the way, why do say "Justin's a twat". Also, why do you assume he's stoned. What I got out of it, he felt the uncomfortable moment and was trying to change the tone by joking it was getting too serious and needed a drink.
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WHY do we keep talking about it being a 1-cd GH album????
It's NOT going to be!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will you people please get a clue and think with your brain?????????
Umm? What is your source that it's not?? I've yet to hear either way.
Anyway, "worst case scenario"...
I agree that just including the songs from 2002-09 will most likely bomb unless the lead single and the follow up single are huge successes. And honestly, I am not sure it's possible because radio will have to be willing to play it. And to be realistic if it's just a track with Madonna's vocals, I doubt radio will play it. This is why if she's considering a guest rapper/vocal from another current artist, it may have a better chance. Fans may not like that, but it's true.
I have no objections to her using older tracks on the set. I mean; these are the songs people fell in love with. GH's used to be a great substitute for casual fans or non-fans to pick up rather specific albums, so no doubt they are hoping to hear some of their favorite tracks. If there is a new spin on them, it may not do as well.
However from a huge fan like myself... perspective... I rather it features some new mixes of the song. But we've seen those CD's from other artists and they don't usually do as well.
"Best Case Scenario"... they make a GH's set that will appeal to everyone and it creates a great interest and appreciation for Madonna again.
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Being a pop star at 50 is no big deal. Our definitions of age and all that is rapidly changing. Plus, plenty of older acts have been successful well into their middle age. When a good song came on the radio when I was growing up and even into my teens I did not care how old the person was. At all. Never even entered my mind. If the music is good that is all I cared about.
I totally agree with the exception that I don't think a lot of people "in the business who are pulling the strings" think the same way. And unfortunately, the general society do not all think that either. Women are victims of ageism more than men. "40" for the longest time was an age a lot of women in the entertainment business were pretty much written off. It's change some, yes, but our society is so fixated on youth, so a lot of people cannot wrap their head around a 50 or 60 year old woman releasing good pop/rock/dance records. It's just unheard of. And I think that is something Madonna was probably thinking at the time when she made those statements. And people change a lot within a short amount of time as well change their minds about things. I suspect Madonna didn't really think she would still be making pop records in 2008/09 if not before.
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Let's have this discussion when GaGa puts out an album as good as Like A Prayer or Ray of Light.
You do realize that by then... that it took her 3 studio albums, multiple soundtracks, singles that got to those albums... you claim are "good". No doubt, I agree those two are Madonna's best yet, but by saying this, it only means all the years before it, she wasn't that good. Oddly enough, she had already captivated the world and made numerous transformations and huge hits.
I've said this before and I'll say thing again... Lady Ga Ga is one step ahead of Madonna regarding the fact her debut album got buzz long before it was released and her first single became an instant hit, unlike Madonna's first. Sure, we can sit here and mention all the advantages Lady Ga Ga has had compared to Madonna, but the fact remains if Lady Ga Ga wasn't interesting and didn't make music that fits in today's scene, she wouldn't be as popular as she is now. No amount of money, connections and what not will change that.
Again, I really don't see Lady Ga Ga the "new Madonna". She is definitely a unique artist in her own right. And while we can say she's borrowing fashion from the past and her music isn't that much different to what we are hearing today, they really were saying the same of Madonna back in the day. In fact, all the fashion Madonna sported was already on the upswing. Hell, Pat Benatar and Cyndi Lauper were wearing much of the same. Though Cyndi took it to another level of wildness.
I do see a little of Cyndi and Madonna in Lady Ga Ga when it comes to fashion and standing out. And after watching Lady Ga Ga's new video "Paparazzi", I am more convince this woman is going to be huge for sometime to come.
It's weird how we sit here and have to make these comparisons, where some fans are constantly trying to still prove Madonna is top dog here. Sorry, but if you have to continually try to prove Madonna is better by discrediting other pop stars like Lady Ga Ga then maybe a part of you feels Madonna is no longer as relevant as you wish. I don't agree with that. But the fact is Madonna is an older artist and the entertainment business will continue to shove her to the side for other up and coming artists. The same happened back when Madonna came on the scene. Even Blondie saw that Madonna pretty much picked up where she left off. I also feel Madonna picked up a bit where Pat Benatar left off and was able to prove that she wasn't going to be a flash in the pan as the critics predicted.
If you genuinely don't like Lady Ga Ga... fine. But don't get all threatened and defensive when she makes a big splash and actually may become the most biggest star we've had in a long time.
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I'm not sure what you are trying to say -that Madonna does understand the culture or that she doesn't and it's ok that she doesn't.
Of course an artist is going to get naturally less relevant as they get older, and Madonna has done great to still have the notoriety and incredible success she still enjoys. Look at people like Annie Lennox; still producing great music, still popular, but has limited apeal to a younger market nowadays, and you are right, that IS no problem, but it would be a problem to a lot of Madonna's fans, who have a lot invested in Madonna remaining youthful and hip forever, as Madonna does herself. She probably faces more of a problem because she is not an avid consumer of popular culture (magazines, TV) so is even more disconnected.
So if she does want to remain a force in popular culture and ahead of the curve, she needs to connect through others, which I think she was doing through Stuart Price. I think in a very down to earth way he connected her with what was current -not necessarily what was cutting edge -I mean the snobs had already moved on to new things long ago when Madonna said how much she liked Goldfrapp's Supernature, just what was current and kind of cool. I don't think she has found anyone like that in this era yet.
I'm saying why say she isn't connecting with the current culture when it shouldn't matter? Why can't we just appreciate where she takes us, rather her trying to connect with what you and some others think is impacting the current culture these days.
But I pretty much disagree with that statement because I feel she is connecting to what is current these days. Yet at the same time, I feel she's going her own direction as well... as she always does. Like Zezwer stated, I don't think her connection with Stuart was connecting her to what's current. It just seemed to connect more to what her fans like the most.
Though, let's be realistic here, there is no doubt she is eager to grab a couple more hits in the U.S., and that is why I feel she worked with Timabland, Timberlake, Kayne, etc. Obviously some fans just didn't like it. I understand that. Although, it initially did work out for her with "4 Minutes" being a huge hit for her. Unfortunately, that success didn't carry over to her album. Her fans weren't strong enough to make the album a huge success and I think she kinda knew it would take more than her fans to make "Hard Candy" a success.
You and I are pretty much hooked. We're most likely going to buy whatever she shits out. We may not like it, but we'll still buy it. However, I really feel that she's been wanting to capture the eye of America and that's why she did "Hard Candy". Again, you and others may not really like the direction, but she took a chance. She experimented with a sound that we all could argue is not so cutting edge. But the thing is she did record a current record with "Hard Candy". It may not have the same feeling that "Confessions..." had, but it was something she had to do.
All in all, "Confessions..." was an album for the majority of her fans. "Hard Candy" wasn an album she was trying to reach further than her fans. It may have failed, but the first single was promising to her. The proof is that most of Madonna fans would pass on much of "Hard Candy" for any of her other classic DANCE albums.
You're speaking from a fan's perspective. In all fairness to you and her fans, I understand why you want an album you're going to enjoy, not something just to appeal to what is current. Yet, isn't that what you're criticizing her not doing??? Not doing something that is "current" of this culture?? I'm sorry but I think "Hard Candy" is quite current. It may have been the tail end of what is current, but it's quite current.
In the end, I am able to admit it's just stereotypical agism for her. She could put out a stellar album and it still won't do as good as when she first was popular in the 80's. The only chance for her to be as successful as she was in the 80's and early 90's, is to keep making albums and hope one or two of them will be a fluke of success and everyone around the world can admittingly enjoy at the moment. But it can't be contrived which I would agree "Hard Candy" was to a point. It has to be something different where she isn't looking for a hit. I think "Ray of Light" was the last time she just made a cool ass album where she didn't worry about if it was going to succeed or fit in with the current culture. And look where it got her. She won many grammys and it is still regarded as one of her best albums to date.
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She's A new Madonna, because she UNDERSTANDS the culture and her place in it. Britney was and is just a product of the culture, Christina has tried to break out but doesn't have the popularity (at the moment) or it would seem the instincts, (though I would not count her out just yet), Whitney and Amy Winehouse are victims of the culture, Kylie is content to be the nation's sweetheart, and at any rate has not translated her success to every territory.
Madonna these days does not seem to understand the culture, and why should she? So she has people to do that for her and they haven't been as ahead of the curve as she once was herself. It's not about how pretty or fit you are, Madonna is prettier and can run round the block more times than Gaga still; it's about the cultural antenae.
I'm not sure if I totally agree with your assessment (in bold). But I am able to comprehend what you mean to a point regarding Madonna. The thing for me is... why does she have to always be ahead? Surely, we could debate that it may make her more popular in today's culture, but let's face it, no matter what she does, she isn't getting any younger. And the fact is, most cultures are geared toward the youth. And if you ask any teenager if they want to be watching a 50 year old woman on stage and videos and buy their records or someone in their 20's, you can bet they are going choose the younger entertainer. Our culture is fixated on youth. Even you proved that for a fact with what you said above. Basically as you stated, if you're not up with the Jones', you no longer (as you put it) "understand the culture"?? Well, why is it that we have to always understand it from the youth's perspective? Why can't we understand it from her perspective too? After all, she's got years of experience she can teach younger generations. I just don't comprehend why people criticize people like Madonna who worked their ass off to get where they are and then the moment they seem disassociated with the current fad or what not, it means you no longer understand the culture.
I personally feel like she does understand the current scene these days. Just because some of us may not like the Britney Spears or Christina A., etc., and Madonna seems to embrace them, doesn't mean she's lost anything. I mean; these girls aren't just one hit wonders. They've had a huge following. Madonna sees that and now I think she sees the same of Lady Ga Ga. I cannot see why you think she doesn't understand the current culture when she constantly is found among it. In fact, some people could turn that around on her and say she's just a "has been" trying to get her last 15 minutes of fame with the younger generation.
The Madonna I see today is a woman who evolved from a street-wise intelligent ambition driven woman to a classy intelligent, ambition wealthy entertainer who refuses to move over just because society wants her to make room for the younger generation. I feel she's making an effort to embrace and understand the younger generation. And no doubt, since society drums into us that you have to be young to be relevant in the entertainment business, she is trying to break that idea. She was tough from the beginning and she's still tough today. There is virtually no other entertainer like her. She probably could physically kick most of the younger generation's asses.
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Why Is she being DISSECTED like a Frog in Biology?
She is GaGa. SHES A POP STAR.
They're ment to be disposable, fun-for-the-moment, flings.
Madonna is the wife you come home too. She cooks your meals, and irons your clothes.
GaGa is the chick you meet in the Hotel at 1:30 AM. Shes fun, but you know theres No Real relationship.
GaGa is cool, for teenagers like me.
We like to party, and we also like to get high, have sex, and party.
Her music encourages those things
Yet you pretty much did the same.... dissecting her. That said, everything you mention thereafter was pretty much thought of Madonna back in the day. A lot of people thought she was a one hit wonder and when that proved to be false, many thought she'd be gone within a few years. When that didn't ring true, some try to write her off within the 90's. Nevertheless, Madonna is still here. And certainly Lady Ga Ga could be that second "wife" people come home too.
Whatever the case, she isn't Madonna. She never will be. She is her own unique person. I like her and I like Madonna. If someone said if I had to choose between... no doubt I'd say... "What for? Why can't I enjoy both?" If you pull out a gun, cock it and told me to choose, I'd quickly answer... "MADONNA!!"
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I think we have to remember that Madonna is so huge that there is always going to be these artists who emerge that will be compared to Madonna and thought of as "The New Madonna". In the end, we all know it's impossible. Some may try to emulate her. Some may succeed for a short while, but if they don't offer any originality of their own, they will eventually be written off.
As for Lady Ga Ga, I think she's quite original in her own right. I do understand why people want to compare her to Madonna. It's because she's unique and her music is comparably to what Madonna's been releasing... which is dance/pop music.
LAdy Ga Ga isn't the "new madonna". You cannot duplicate what Madonna did. As someone else pointed out in this thread, the day of the huge mega artists like we had in the 80's are dead. It's going to take a while before we reach a platform like that.
I really hope Lady Ga Ga goes on and sells millions of records for years on. I enjoy her act. She is quite unique. I love the stage antics and the costumes. Again, it reminds me of some of the 80's artists who use such gimmicks (including Madonna) to stand out. Eventually, she will shun all that if she continues to succeed because to succeed in the business... especially for women, you have to keep changing and evolving as Madonna has.
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oh jeez no.. "Madonna Celebrate" as a title of the GH's album. It's just soooo corny. But then again, I recall many (including myself) dismissing a few titles from MUSIC album namely the title track as it seem so unimaginative and simplistic. The same for many of the simplistic names for COAD. I definitely thought "Get Together" was a joke as well as "Forbidden Love".
I hate to be critical here of Madonna, but if these are real titles, they aren't very imaginative. I'm hoping these are just working titles as of now. But won't Oakenfold look a fool if these tracks never show up. LOL!
It's obvious Madonna has worked with a couple people on new tracks and she will choose a couple that best suits the GH's.
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Actually, it's hard to just name one from each show, but here I go...
"Gambler" from Virgin Tour ("Dress You Up" Ties)
The whole medley; "Dress You Up, Material Girl, and Like A Virgin" was fun from WTG.
"Like A Virgin" from BA (Holiday was just as great)
"Everbody/Everybody Is A Star" from GIRLIE SHOW (Like A Wirgin was awesome as well)
"La Isla Bonita" from DW
"Lament" from RIT (this performance just blows everything else away)
"Like A Virgin" from CONFESSIONS TOUR (I love this updated version)
"Like A Prayer" from S&S (though the whole Spanish section was awesome with YOU MUST LOVE ME)
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It's great, But a little bit expensive. $ 40 Euros plus deliver of course. (And to think that Madonna never sees the money of these releases, does she?) I should make myself rich by releasing books of her.
Well, I was about to order, but the shipping cost was the same amount of the book. Of course, I was going to add the "On Stage" book as well, but still $56 additional US dollars for the book is quite expensive.
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Awesome to know there will be an ENGLISH version. MUST BUY!!!
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And will there be an ENGLISH copy?
Madonna's Jesus for D&G F/W 2009
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
Posted
Once again, I never said that. But again, you proved my point once again, where your interest is to discuss/debate the negative in Madonna, rather just appreciate.
This will be my last post in this thread because I refuse to spend anymore time arguing over stupid shit like this. All I was conveying that some fans spend way too much criticizing every fuckin' thing Madonna does, when half the time you don't even know half the shit you're criticizing is even true. And even if it was, who fuckin' cares!! I didn't stick around to be a fan for 25 years to continually bust her chops like some people do here. It's just ridiculous.
Have your say... be negative... throw your insults at me. After all, it's expected and predictable of ya!