neutrocks
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Posts posted by neutrocks
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Idk what you're talking about because I'm barely in here talking about how much I hate gaga, I never was from the start
Actually, I was speaking in general in regards to you quoting me. So my apologies if you thought I was directing it all at you. And truth be told, with a few times here and there in all these bashing threads, I'm barely in them too. It's a bit humorous to me. how much emphasis is put on anyone coming here sharing a different opinion, and then being told to "shut up" and insulted. Then those people who object to people like me, say they have the right to dislike Gaga and the right to express that. Yet, someone like myself isn't given the same respect to express my opinion, just because I'm not jumping on the bandwagon of trashing Gaga.
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Why the fuck are we having this discussion again?
And why the fuck not?
I think it's quite hilarious the few times I come in to express my opinion, you seem to think it outweighs the many many many times you and others have repeatedly discuss your hatred for Gaga. And contrary to somes beliefs here, I've yet to ask anyone to stop. I've come in simply to add my opinion, and it's you who are trying to dictate what is okay to be expressed in this thread.You might not like what I say, and that's why rather actually refute anything I say, you resort to insults. It's quite the easy thing to do, to insult someone rather just be tolerant to other people's opinions as "Pink Matters" mentioned earlier in this thread.
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if u dont get this thread, then why bother coming in trying to dictate to everyone how to act and what to say and how to think. who u think u r? elton john? LOL
Where have I told you how to act or what to say or think? Read back please? Am I'm the one telling people to "shut up"? No. Did I say once you can't say what you like about Gaga? Am I calling people "asses" or "annoying"? Not once have I done that. I simply came in to make some sensible comments about Billboards charting system and the fact I didn't agree with comparing Artpop's success with MDNA's.
It isn't me the one telling people what to say or not to say. It isn't me who is keeping you from saying what you want to say. After all, how many millions of threads bashing Gaga has been there? If you look back, how often have I really commented in them on my personal opinion? And when I have, how many times have you seen me personally attack others or insult them for their opinions? Again, I am not the one telling people to "shut up" or calling them names. It seems you have your facts mixed up here. It seems to me it's you and others who are trying to 'dictate' how I should or shouldn't respond!
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THIS!!!! THIS RIGHT HERE!!!!
We have this argument every damn few weeks (often by the same people).
People have the right to hate Gaga...and express that.
Yet people don't have the right to express anything different than you? Don't you see how contradicting that is? You allow people to say whatever they want as long as it's in agreement with you, but once someone comes in with something different to say that isn't necessarily bashing the artist, people start insulting them or saying "you're taking it too seriously", and/or "You're a monster!"
Certainly, I could take one's advice not to come in here if I don't like it, but you do realize that if I started a positive thread on Lady Gaga sharing what I like about her, you and others would come in trashing her and insulting anyone who likes her. Yet, if I said the exactly the same in my thread as you have above... "People have the right to LIKE Gaga... and express that." would you stop coming in there bashing her? So why isn't okay for me say what I want of Lady Gaga or bring up some valid points in this thread if you're allowed to say what you want about her? Don't I have that same right?
Face it, you can insult me, call me a monster or say I'm lecturing, but the truth is, you just don't like the fact someone has something positive to say about Gaga. Not only that, you rather claim I'm taking things seriously, when you and others are attacking and insulting other members of this community (many who are proven to be huge Madonna fans) for expressing something differently than you.
Again, I have just as much right to express what I like about Lady Gaga as you have the right to express what you dislike, but please point out anywhere where I asked you to stop or told you to "shut up" or where I call anyone an "ass" or "annoying"? Not once! I've been respectable and calm, yet the rest of you are the one going ape shit on anyone who has a differing opinion, and then have the audacity to say they are taking things seriously? Seems to me when you resort to attacking someone as some have here, you taken it a bit too seriously yourself.
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And if YOU weren't there, then how do you know this? It's naive to think her process hasn't changed, what with four children and an entire empire to manage. Of course she's outsourcing more and more. We've seen the Erotica diaries. We know she wrote the vast majority, if not 100%, of those songs in the studio with Shep and Andre. Yes, "Ray Of Light" was largely taken from an existing song, but we've seen the footage from the ROL sessions. We know how much of herself she put into that album. We also know that she split her studio time up between doing plays and movies during AL. We know that she was busy editing her film for months during the recording of MDNA. We've heard the demos for GGW, etc. Yes, yes, some fans claims (with zero evidence) that those were made after she wrote/arranged them, but that honestly doesn't make sense to me. Madonna can throw down a scratch vocal in 10 minutes if the producer needed her to. I don't think anyone would be saying she shouldn't outsource if the stuff she was outsourcing was actually as good as the stuff we know she's written on her own.
Oh c'mon now? And you were there to know that she didn't? I am not the one who is claiming she doesn't put any effort in her albums. I'm also not claiming I was there to know how much effort she does put in her album. I just find it absurd for any Madonna fan to really think, knowing her 30 year history in conceiving albums, that she actually goes in to make an album with very little effort. Hard Candy is heavily criticized by some fans as an album she didn't put much effort in. Yet, Justin Timberlake vouched for what other producers have said of Madonna that she came in with journals of written stuff and had a lot of input in her songs.
And the fact she's splitting her time between recording an album and other things, do you really think that's new? In fact, if I recall correctly, Madonna had already started working on the LIKE A PRAYER album when she was on Broadway doing 'Speed The Plow'. What about when she filmed "Desperately Seeking Susan"? She was filming that movie while working on LIKE A VIRGIN. What about the EROTICA album? She put together a sex book and was filming "Body Of Evidence" all at the same time?
My point is, Madonna has always multi-tasked. She's never just locked her self in a studio to only concentrate on recording an album. She's always been doing other projects near and around making music during her whole career. She's always had songs just handed to her where very little lyrics changes were made. "Papa Don't Preach"??? But it doesn't change the fact that she has put a lot more input in other songs whether handed to her or not.
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neutrocks is annoying bc he says the same shit over and over and it's always in essay form. He's a finger wagger and that tends to put ppl off. He's been told time and again not to take this thread too seriously but he won't get off his soap box.
Well, lets go through the kazillion posts you made simply on Lady Gaga and how much you dislike her. I'm certain that if we add up all your words, sentences and paragraphs, you win in the essay department. In fact, how often do you even post about Madonna here? It's funny that some of you say I'm a "monster"or claim I just showed up when Artpop was released? Hmmm? That's just untrue and if some of you who make that claim actually participated in this community as it was intended for... then you would know that I'm quite active in the Madonna forums and always have been. So tell me again who is really on their "soap box" and taking things serious though? At least, I'm not spending the majority of my time at a Madonna forum slamming other artists and members who dare to have a different opinion than you. Seems like you're the one who is taking things a bit too seriously to resort to attacking others for not agreeing with your hatred for another artist.
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Oh I know, he's like a...broken record.
I think that's quite hilarious for you and others to make that claim when I haven't spent 30 million threads repeating myself in how much I hate an artist.
Face it, you people can't handle anyone who comes in with a differing opinion that sheds even the slightest positive light towards Gaga. When they do, you insult them, and insist they are a "monster". And my latest posts weren't really defending Gaga, it was to mention how her song was tallied for the Billboard Hot 100 charts based on sales, airplays and streams, and there are individual charts such as sales charts which could make one's argument that she's flopping.
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it's funny that he reappeared when ARtflop was released
Wrong!! I've just never posted much in this particular forum. You can do a search, I post a lot in the Madonna forums. Forgive me for using the forum how it's intended and not coming in and slamming every artist I dislike.
And I'm a "monster"?? Ha! I can guarantee I am not. Other than a few of her earlier songs, I am hardly a fan of her music. I don't own one album by her. Can't even say I've seen many of her videos.
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just dont let her write any lyrics..
Bday Song
Superstar
GMAYL
?
You're right.... she's just a horrible song writer....
Lucky Star
Holiday
Borderline
Into The Groove
Live To Tell
Vogue
Like A Prayer (and most of the album of the same name)
Express Yourself
Music (and most of the album of the same name)
Take A Bow
Most of the Ray of Light Album
Wow, just a horrible song writer. How the hell did she even become the music icon she is??
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I'm not sure if you're even trying to understand other people and other point-of-views or are you just twisting other people's words into something you can then oppose and reject.
No one is saying she needs to be all serious all the time. But you can be fun and silly in a way more clever, mature (yes, breaking news: even mature people can be fun, can you imagine?) and creative way than she has been.
Besides, I'm not sure how much she's been herself in HC and MDNA. She put as little effort into them as she could get away with. She accepted songs for them that were rejected by other pop stars (I don't even call them artists). That's what I mean. See, I haven't really been talking about music genre. I don't care if it's dance although unlike a lot of others I don't need her album to be danceable stuff. I'm fine with everything as long as it's clever, mature and creative. And, dare I even say it, preferably a little bit artistic. Or should I fear that word is going to get twisted into something bad and horrible?
Anyway, I don't care about anything else as long as she puts herself into it. That's not happened with her last two studio albums. They feel a lot different than COADF (which is an album I don't like either) that is clearly all hers. That's what I'm interested in. Either commit to creating an album or don't do it at all. I don't want other people to do and write what they think Madonna is/feels/thinks. That doesn't feel real nor authentic. And for the artist that Madonna claims to be... It shouldn't be acceptable.
See, I don't get when people say she hasn't put much effort in certain albums? I think that's just an absurd statement to make for those who aren't really into Madonna much anymore. It's like you seem to think you were there when she was making these albums and just laid around the studio letting people hand her songs, without any input. That's just bull! Just look at the song "Gang Bang". We all heard the earlier version. And then there's the album version.
Madonna's input on all her albums have pretty much been the same from the beginning of her career. She has someone who comes up with the music while she usually writes lyrics. From there she works with the writer and/or producer and refines the sound of the song until it works for her. Several of the songs from Like a Virgin were songs handed to her. For instance "Like A Virgin", the song that catapulted her to a phenomenon. She didn't write that or even come up with that song. But she embraced it and molded it to fit her. "Papa Don't Preach" was handed to her, but do you think she put no effort in that song either? What about "La Isla Bonita"? Oh wait, are you a "Ray of lighter"?? What about "Ray of Light"?
I just want to know how you seem to be so sure Madonna didn't put much effort in her last two albums simply based on the fact, you didn't like the direction of it personally? Because that's what I think it comes down to certain people who keep saying "Madonna put no effort in the album" or "she phoned it in". That's just ridiculous, and any fan from the early days will tell you, Madonna isn't the type of artist who lets her producers to take complete control. How do you not know Madonna didn't go into the studio with the mind set that she wanted Hard Candy to have the Timbaland/Timberlake style? I mean why else would she work with them? I will agree that she probably was two years too late to go that route, but obviously that was her choice. But then we have a song like "Beat Goes On" and again we all heard the demo of that, and then the album version There was a huge difference between the demo and final product. Yet, you still think she put LITTLE effort in it? C'mon please? Of course, she accepts songs from other artists/producers/writers, but that isn't anything new. She's been doing that all her career.
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Okay, I tried to do this several times, but had a hard time. Of course, her known hits stand out and there are more than 10, but I love many of her non singles as well. And my favorites always change, so here goes...
1. Live To Tell
2. Devil Wouldn't Recognize You
3. The Power of Goodbye
4. Like A Prayer
5. Vogue
6. Burning Up
7. Falling Free
8. Take A Bow
9. Love Spent
10. Stay
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Well, we can argue back and forth if she's "being herself" or not and she needs to do more songs like this and that, but I became a fan early on in her career. It was light and fun songs with not much profound lyrics that hooked me to Madonna... "Lucky Star", "Holiday", "Everybody", "Burning Up" and "Into The Groove" anyone. Most of her songs loved by the general public are those earlier songs. But of course, she has had many great songs enjoyed by the public that had much more to it than just fun frivolous lyrics such as "Live To Tell", "Papa Don't Preach", and "Like A Prayer". All in all, she's always given us a mix balance of that for each album. And I agree, Madonna has always been herself. Yes, she's matured a lot with her music, but she hasn't lost that fun side of her that I remember falling in love with in the 80's. Do I want her to repeat that? No. I want her to do what she wants to do whether it's fun or serious. The fact is, the general public has issue with 55 year old women still having fun like Madonna does. But to say she's not acting her age, is just ridiculous since her draw to social causes have been more and more prevalent. When she started out, it was usually all about her, but you can tell that she's matured and her kids and her causes are just as important to her, if not more.
It seems to me that Madonna isn't the problem here. It's societies views of how a 55 year old woman should be acting. Who makes these rules??
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I wouldn't say he's annoying, it's just a different point of view, and he makes a valid point.
Some of you are blinded by hatred when it comes to Gaga, please learn how to be more tolerant, especially with other Madonna fans, that's the main reason we're all here isn't it, we're Madonna fans.
Thank you. I provided known facts in my argument. I wasn't even arguing if she's a flop or not, or if she's this great Queen of pop or what not. I'm not much of a fan of Artpop! I just provided the facts in how Billboard Hot 100 works. Also, I still think some people are putting too much emphasis on Billboard Hot 100 here when you can easily use your argument by looking at the separate charts available. There is a:
Hot Singles Sales Chart (tallies only sales)
Digital Sales (tallies only digital sales)
Billboard Hot 100 is a combinations of SALES, AIRPLAYS, and STREAMS. It's a chart to measure popularity of a song using those formats. It's always been that way with the exception of adding Streams recently (which is quite fair since Streams is what people are actually playing) I didn't make up the rule. Yet, you guys are screaming "shady" chart position and that the charts should only tally sales, when they do. As mentioned, Billboard has many different charts. It has for a long long time. Long before Gaga was around.
I'm not defending how she got that top 8. Simply pointing out that her top 8 is fair and square within HOT 100 guidelines. If UMG padded those counts, then so be it, but again, I think some of you are putting too much emphasis on Billboard Hot 100 when you could easily be looking at the separate charts to make your argument that Gaga is flopping.
If that makes me "annoying" or an "ass" then so be it. But Pink Matters is right. I offered my perspective on it. I didn't make it personal. I didn't insult anyone. And I won't! I'm not here to make personal attacks on members simply because they have a different opinion or perspective than me. I'm a Madonna fan first. My bulk of conversations here at this community is sharing my interest and love for Madonna like other like minded fans here.
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Regardless if he has or not a counterarguement, you are.
Well, I trust you know what you're speaking of, since you're such an expert on the subject!
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Rationalize however you want, Germanotta is going down. Doesn't matter how many desperate collabs, how many deranged cult members defend it, how many spin pr articles it's team buys, how much Bill Werde promotes it. It's done.
Maybe she is. I never said she wasn't going down. I simply just was trying to point out that comparing her lack of success with Madonna's last album seemed a bit ridiculous and the numbers are there for her DOPE top ten song. Though, I'm still curious where the song went the next week it went top ten?
You're being as ass!
In other words, you can't refute what I say, so instead you resort to a personal attack. As if I didn't see that one coming!!
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Im not going to dig up the receipts posted on this thread a couple of days ago by me, but a creature with a 5 year old career who is supposed to be the biggest female popstar -according to the corrupted media, bill werde and it's fans- should have no problem outselling a 'flop' album with no promotion from a popstar 30 years into her career. Whichever way you try to spin it the fact remains that artpop with an app, deep discounts, 20 million high profile performances and promotional stunts hasn't been able to outsell Madonna's non-promoted 'flop' album.
Seems to me you're putting a little too much emphasis on her being "the biggest female popstar" when in the grand scheme of things other than Beyonce, who is outselling her right now? You're comparing a two month album to an album that's been out for nearly two years. Not only that, the sales are quite close to one another. How she got there, what does it matter? If some dumb fuck bought her album even at a discount price, it still sold. I've yet to hear Gaga or anyone say they were trying to outsell Madonna's MDNA album. Once again, if you're going to try to discredit Gaga, at least pick someone who has managed to sell more albums than her in less time, with less promotion such as Beyonce.
Right now Joannes album has sold 73k more than MDNA worldwide after 7 weeks. Of course Joanne has had Xmas sales to boost her total but we all know if the album weren't released for during the Xmas season it would have sold less than what it has.
And Madonna's had two Christmases to boost her sales for MDNA, so your point is?
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Not so decent if artpop can't even surpass Madonna's 'flop' MDNA album sales
Serious? You're going to make me go there? I'm a huge fan of Madonna who would love to see Madonna's latest album outsell any of her younger contenders? Serious?
Artpop has only been out since early November. In the U.S. alone in less than 2 months, it has managed to sell nearly 500,000 copies so far. Yet, Madonna's MDNA has been out since March of 2013, and it's only sold about 20,000 more? Another strong market, the UK, Artpop sold about 94,000 copies in less than 2 months, though MDNA has sold 130,000 copies in the nearly two years it's been released. If I recall, MDNA didn't have those numbers in two months time of it's release.
Please, you can do better than that. Don't bring up an artists who has had an album for more than a year, comparing it to someone who is being out only a couple of months and has nearly caught up to them in far less time. Not only that, many Madonna fans have constantly argued that Madonna has pretty much kept up with the Jones since MDNA pretty much sold around the same amount of albums in 2012 as other releases that year with the exception of ADELE who has sold a ridiculous amount of albums that no one else has seen since.
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I'm not saying it's not legit, I'm saying that Billboard Hot 100 doesn't really represent the popularity of a song in America with their current rules. Do What You Want is clearly more popular and better known than Dope.
You're right in the grand scheme of things DWUW is more popular at this moment. But we're talking about one week where "Dope" was #8. I haven't been paying attention because I'm not really a fan of her latest album, but where did the song (Dope) place the next week? A huge significant drop could definitely prove that her placement was padded by the streams.
Funny how the one performance billboard used for the charts has 15m + views and all the rest of the performances she's done for the album range from 300k to around 2m w/some that are just a little higher. Why aren't the monsters watching the other performances? Why is there such a difference in views from the one Billboard counted vs. the others? Did Billboard over-inflate those #'s? Are they doing the same thing for other artists?
Well, that video with 15 million views is linked through UMG. Gaga is signed to that company, so why wouldn't they count those views from a major distributor? And how do you know they didn't count others videos? I never said they didn't. But it's quite evident, the majority of the counts came from the video that is linked to her label. I am not sure why that seems unrealistic to anyone. If this was Madonna, wouldn't you expect the same?
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But in the 70's and 80's it was 70% sales right?
As far as I know, it's been the same ever since the 50's. But then again, we have a group of people who completely despises an entertainer and is willing to insert any possible conspiracy theory. I do not believe Gaga is any media's darling right now or ever was. 8.1 million people isn't a lot of people in the world if you think about it. Just in the U.S, that's about 2% of the population out of 300 million people that got her to to the top 10. This should tell us that Billboard Hot 100 is hardly a measure of anyone's popularity in the grand scheme of things. It's just whomever is interested in music to any degree. Still, Gaga has a decent fan base since we can apply the same sort of statistics to any entertainer.
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Most likely because it was rigged.
Look at my above reply. The views for that performance are 15 million and counting. So if it's top ten status was based on 8.2 million streams that week of that performance, then it wasn't rigged... at least from Billboards rules in entering the charts.
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Lady Gaga got a top 10 with Dope, because a lot of people were watching some music show somewhere, yet her song that's all over the radio has yet to crack the top 10, so something seems off.
You're right... it is said 8.2 million streams of that song, managed to help it gain a top 10 hit on the Billboard 100's chart.... which again measures popularity of music combining radio, sales and streams. Fortunately for Gaga, her charting came from streams specifically from her Youtube Awards appearance. But let's be rational about this, wasn't this Youtube event very highly viewed? It was the first streamed awards show. Factor that in with the the fact that Youtube is considered to be the largest internet streaming company, one could say she was just lucky that she was at the right place at the right time since her appearance alone drew in the most viewers. Also, people could re-watch that performance contributing more views. We can look into conspiracy theories, but if the numbers aren't lying, then nothing is "off". You might not like that it got that attention or how it charted, but it charted fair and square, which I'm basing it on if the streams of her appearance were counted correctly, but we all can easily check that by finding that performance and see how many people have viewed it so far.
Edit.. I just found the video. UMG's clip of her appearance has got more than 15 million views:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAVgwA9Gx1A
The billboard stats seems legit to me. Now how she got those views, I can't really defend.
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Honestly it makes you wonder why the public and the industry focus so much on the Hot 100 when the sales chart is really what everyone should be looking at.
BINGO!! I thought that long ago, even when Madonna was first hugely popular. And as her career went on, especially in the last 10 to 15 years, you would see a number of her singles sell very well, but her song didn't do well on the HOT 100. That was due to lack of airplay. Then again, the reverse happened when she didn't release "Beautiful Stranger" as a single, yet airplay got her in the top 20 still. "Into The Groove" worked very similar where airplay was a strong contender for her even though a single wasn't available. So it does work both ways.
At least with the new ranking in streams, you know there is a more chance that they are being charted because the song is actually popular at the moment by the people, not what radio DEEJAYS are force feeding the public or being paid to play.
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i'm saying that she makes her best music on tour. the album's are just sketches for the live shows, which are so much better musically than the album versions.
See, I don't necessarily agree with that. In fact, you have to go back to when albums started becoming the norm and popular. Albums were always conceived based on the fact to get the music distributed to more people who couldn't necessarily go to a concert/show by the artists. It eventually gave the artists more room to be creative. However, most artists start off writing songs to perform in front of people. Before albums were bankable, it was always about the artist going to gigs and performing their songs. It would be insane to think a band or an artist could just release an album and think they could just make their money from that. Though, that became more and more possible with higher profile artists when Rock and Roll emerged. Madonna did it in the 80's and somewhat the 90's where she didn't have to tour with every new album. But now we're back to albums not being bankable anymore. So artists now have to rethink how they can get their music out to people. The internet is pretty accessible to the mainstream public. Unfortunately, it doesn't make the artist money if people can stream or easily download songs for free. So now artists who used to be able to make money from their albums, must go out and tour more.
I honestly don't think when Madonna's creating her albums, she's thinking necessarily of how it's going to work on tour. I think it's about the art/vision/message she wants to share. I think most artists are like that. But once the albums is created, an artist must think, "okay, how am I going to get people to hear this?". And of course, any successful artist will look for a way to make the biggest bang for their buck. Right now, Madonna is fortunately a bankable touring artist. She'll probably always be as long as she wants to keep touring. If she wanted to, she could easily tour on her her catalog of hits from the past without any new material. At this time, she doesn't give me the impression she's willing to do that. She still comes off as if she's inspired to create new work. So it's quite ridiculous to me, to hear from fans that Madonna lacks inspiration or doesn't put any effort in her albums. The fact is; she is a 30 year veteran to the music world, and could easily just stop making new music and rely on her old stuff. To me, that would be lack of inspiration or effort. Yet, she still creates new albums, and not only that she puts on these meticulous tours. She doesn't just stand behind a microphone and sing She's actually moving. Not only that, she realizes VIDEOS take money, so why not pour that vision into her tour? It all makes sense to me. Yes, you would be lying to yourself if you didn't think Madonna wasn't thinking how she could make the biggest buck from her art, but I don't believe for a second she creates her art with very little effort to simply sell concert tickets.
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Just go by what song sells the most for the week plain and simple like albums.
Then maybe you need to focus on these Billboard charts instead. The Hot Singles sales charts have always been a separate charting system.
Hot Singles Sales
Digital Sales
and
Hot Digital Tracks.
You're criticizing a chart (Billboard Hot 100) for pretty much doing what they've been doing all along, measuring the popularity based on a combination of factors.
My dream producer for the next album is...
in ARCHIVE - The REBEL HEART Forum
Posted
That's what I'm saying. It astounds me that some people actually think she put little effort in MDNA and HARD CANDY when as you pointed out, she has a lot input in those songs you mentioned.
Madonna has never been an artist that just puts out one kinda sound. And just because she teams up with even a Sound of the moment, doesn't mean she's relinquished all her inputs to these people. Certainly, she's in control.
I'm not a huge fan of the Erotica album, but I also know she wrote a lot on that album. It's the sound that I am not fond of, but yet there are a number of songs I do love on that album, but. Just because it didn't become a huge record like her past albums, makes me think she didn't put much effort in it. For some reason, I'm getting the impression once some fans think the album didn't perform well, it must mean she quickly slapped the album together with no effort, when in truth, MDNA and HARD CANDY were created within the same time frame of a number of her most popular albums.