Jamesy
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Posts posted by Jamesy
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Dunno what this will really show - but here's a clip from my PAL Laserdisc of BA Nice.
And here's same clip from a WB NTSC VHS Promo I got a few years ago. It's the original HBO Edit of the concert:
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Yes I remember the PAL issue being discussed before. I was wondering....if the GS DVD is from a PAL master converted to NTSC then re-converted again to PAL for the UK etc, then would the US GS DVD not have slightly better pic quality than the UK? Not as good as the untouched original PAL of course, but better. The Region 1 is missing the 2 track stereo mix of course which is another dumb WB decision. Also I imagine Ciao Italia was shot PAL as well? then doubly re-converted again.
Definitely the USA GS DVD would have superior picture quality to the PAL one. Although to the casual viewer this would be very slight.
I always preferred having the USA editions of any of the Madonna WMV releases over the years for that reason (CIao Italia, IC, 93-99 all look better).
On the flipside - many of the UK *promo* videos were way better quality than anything that was released, cos they used unconverted PAL versions of her music videos that were mastered originally in PAL (these have never been released to this date without an NTSC conversion).
Examples include JML, Frozen, RoL, Drowned World, Music.
There's a vivid difference between the PAL versions of these which aired originally on TV channels in Europe and were issued without conversion on UK promo videos - to the NTSC conversions that WMV eventually released!
Getting into Geek territory here tho.
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I remember something in Icon magazine at the time stating that the original intention was some sort of mash-up type BA release with performances from different shows, but then at the last minute they decided on the HBO show. I wish I could track down the original quote.
Yeah I have that ICON magazine issue you're talking about - and someone from Pioneer says in a Q&A that they didn't know which show they were gonna be using up until "the last minute" and that they were originally going to include a mini documentary with clips from lots of different shows throughout the tour - but that copyright issues stopped that happening.
I will dig it out when I am home tonight if I remember.
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The PAL BA Laserdisc is unconverted original PAL - and it would be interesting to know if the PAL master tapes of that show are still held somewhere (maybe with Pioneer?).
I just found correspondence I had with someone about the Reliance BA Nice remaster a few years ago - and it seems they did indeed have the PAL master to work from. And they got their source material apparently not from Warners or Pioneer but from "Music Guide Inc.".
I wonder if Madonna's management (outside of record companies) were arranging all of that?
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BA just stunk of a rush release anyway. They didn't even bother post producing the sound. Just stuck the awful HBO mix on there with a few different camera angles. I've no doubt that (like everything else) no one knows where any of those master tapes are. They could probably formulate a half-decent DVD of the Nice show if they went back to the original elements.
BA Nice is a strange one because it was released by Pioneer back then and not Warner Music Vision (due to the tour sponsorship by Pioneer and a deal that the show would be issued exclusively on Laserdisc, which Pioneer were pushing hard back then).
It's to date the only official Madonna concert release that seems to have been mastered for release, in PAL. WMV mastered everything NTSC - including notably Girlie Show - which was shot in PAL and shown in native PAL on Sky TV in the UK, but all official releases are from an NTSC conversion.
The PAL BA Laserdisc is unconverted original PAL - and it would be interesting to know if the PAL master tapes of that show are still held somewhere (maybe with Pioneer?).
The in-house BA Nice DVD that has leaked is slightly interesting - it comes from the end of 2008 when there was a lot of speculation that her greatest hits end-of-warner release might co-incide with a bunch of other releases.
Then there's the Reliance Mediworks remaster of the show from a couple of years later. They were employed by Warners to produce a 16:9 remaster of the Nice concert and this also leaked out. Definitely signs of a plan to release on DVD IMO and I wonder why that never came to pass either?
My conclusion anyway with regards a future BA release is that we are getting Nice show in some form or other. And I'm not overly bothered about that (except that it will be nice for casual fans and others to enjoy). It will be a downgrade from the 1991 PAL Laserdisc in terms of picture quality.
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It is kinda funny.And when will Madonna fans get a re-release like this?
Who'd have thought in 1986 that Madonna's protogee Nick Kamen would have his album given the deluxe release treatment before any of hers!
We will likely see deluxe editions of Marilyn Martin and Nick Scotti's albums before we see anything like this from Madonna. Sad but true!!
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For me BoE is her best movie after WTG.
I could watch it again - and I've already seen it more than once.
Funny as fuck, decent storyline and she looks stunning in every scene.
When I recommend Madonna movies to people I mention BoE, WTG and Swept Away. Pretty much all the others are tough to get through IMO.
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Just kinda interesting that Nick Kamen's debut self-titled album is getting a deluxe 2CD release next month in the UK.
The 1986 album was most famous because it featured a collaboration with Madonna - in a year when she had her biggest ever selling UK album.
Disappointingly, it doesn't include anything previously unreleased, but it's the first time most of the "Each Time You Break My Heart" mixes have been issued on CD. Also a shame there's no DVD included. There were two official videos for "Each Time..." - one featured Felix Howard, who was also in the 1986 Madonna video OYH.
From the press release:
‘Each Time You Break My Heart’ - peaked at #5 in the UK Singles charts in 1986 and was Top 10 across the European music charts.
The single was written and produced by Madonna and Stephen Bray - the writer / producer team
behind Madonna's "Like A Prayer” album.Madonna also unmistakably provides backing vocals on the track. This compilation features six versions of this essential Nick Kamen track - album / dance mix / extended - remixed by Shep Pettibone / dub / extended instrumental version and the US radio mix.
http://shop.cherryred.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=5175
Full track listing:
DISC ONE
1. WIN YOUR LOVE
2. OPEN THE DOOR TO YOUR HEART
3. NOBODY ELSE
4. INTO THE NIGHT
5. COME SOFTLY TO ME
6. LOVING YOU IS SWEETER THAN EVER
7. EACH TIME YOU BREAK MY HEART
8. THE MAN IN ME
9. ANY DAY NOW
10. HELP ME BABY
11. BABY AFTER TONIGHT (BONUS TRACK) *
12. MISS YOU (BONUS TRACK) *
13. EACH TIME YOU BREAK MY HEART - DANCE MIX (BONUS TRACK) *
14. NOBODY ELSE - ARTHUR BAKER DANCE MIX (BONUS TRACK) *
DISC TWO
1. EACH TIME YOU BREAK MY HEART - EXTENDED VERSION *
2. LOVING YOU IS SWEETER THAN EVER - EXTENDED DANCE MIX *
3. NOBODY ELSE - SPECIAL ARTHUR BAKER DANCE MIX *
4. WIN YOUR LOVE - THE LOVE MIX *
5. COME SOFTLY TO ME - 12" VERSION *
6. EACH TIME YOU BREAK MY HEART - DUB *
7. NOBODY ELSE - JELLYBEAN US 12" VERSION *
8. EACH TIME YOU BREAK MY HEART - EXTENDED INSTRUMENTAL *
9. LOVING YOU IS SWEETER THAN EVER - INSTRUMENTAL *
10. EACH TIME YOU BREAK MY HEART - US RADIO MIX *
11. NOBODY ELSE - JELLYBEAN US DUB *
*DENOTES RELEASED ON CD IN THE UK FOR THE
FIRST TIME -
There are
Turn up the radio b-roll
La isla bonita b-roll
Mdna rehearsal video
And lots lots more besides circulating.
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Jamesy: Since you're so plugged into this stuff, do you know why we never got BA or RIT on DVD? They've seen fit to release ever other show she's done, and we they clearly even started editing RIT for such a release. Why haven't they released them?
:-) I don't think I'm really clued into it but I'll take that as a compliment. :-)
Sadly I have no idea at all about why they never got released. Loads of speculation over the years but I don't know anything personally!
Obviously back at the time there were definite reasons why BA didn't get released on home video by Warner - there was the whole exclusivity deal with Pioneer for a Laserdisc-only BA release - and then by the time that deal expired there was ToD and then she was onto her next tour.
And with Re-Invention, the CBS TV broadcast fell through and the fall-out with original director Hamish Hamilton. Then IGTTYAS was probably considered priority. Next thing we knew she was onto Confessions and RiT was old hat.
So if you look at it historically like that and accept that there were maybe valid reasons why the tours weren't released at the time as happened with all her other tours - then the question after that is, how come they never considered releasing them in later years (for BA - in the last 10 or 15 years).
And you're left with the answer that NOTHING seems to ever get released by Madonna's record companies that doesn't relate to what she's doing currently. It's not that we don't specifically get BA or Re-Invention - it's that we don't ever get ANYTHING from Warner Bros! :-) So if it "misses the boat" at the time - then history tells us we can kiss goodbye to getting it later.
Once perhaps WB or whoever is in control of all her back catalogue, decides there should indeed be releases of her former work - hopefully we will get everything and anything re-released, repackaged, deluxed-to-the-hilt. But I am fed up holding my breath for that!
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That re-invention concert that leaked is very different from the final (?) Burning Up and Die Another Day clips that leaked online earlier though. They both looked like they were from the final edit (and both nights going by the changing hair from shot to shot) And the sound is likely just a direct port of the soundboard with no post production and that's why it sounds a bit flat...a bit like BA Nice...but don't get me started on THAT.
Just wanted to confirm that the leaked Lisbon Re-Invention concert isn't just the screen footage from the night.
Nocturne Productions did the screen footage each night on the RIT using 4:3 SD NTSC footage - but as we know, Lisbon was shot that night using PAL HDTV cameras filming 16:9 widescreen.
It was reported the night of the first Lisbon show by fans at the venue that the screens were showing footage in the wrong format. The 4:3 screens were actually being fed live (of course!) footage from the HDTV 16:9 cameras - squashed into a 4:3 format.
The next morning, Portugese TV were given footage of Vogue and Frozen (as was normal for every stop on the tour) and the first thing I noticed when I recorded their reports off Breakfast News TV - was that the footage was 16:9!
So I just now dug out that lengthy clip of Vogue they broadcast that morning - and placed it alongside the leaked Lisbon DVD.
As you can see - the DVD is another edit of the footage. A few wide shots and lots of other angle edits. But definitely a later edit. Something someone had worked on for that eventual (but still unreleased) DVD for sure!
It's interesting! And you can see also that a lot of the footage on the DVD edit is from the first Lisbon night (the news footage is entirely Lisbon 1st night of course).
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The Boston and New Jersey B-roll tapes were given to HBO to help them with pre-production. That was always my take on it anyway. They were never meant for broadcast.
AFAIK, Europe was always part of the BA itinerary. The London dates were announced by Madge during the Jacki Brambles interview from the LA rehearsals I remember.
Yep. NJ and Boston never intended for broadcast.
Europe indeed always announced as part of tour even before it opened in Japan in April. HBO contract not signed until much later!
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Until Madonna or Fincher confirm that Tokyo footage, then no. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this could have happened when Fincher had already dropped out and Alek brought in just before they even left for Japan.
I agree on this.
It also never made much sense to me.
Doing a full multi angle 35mm movie recording of a concert properly, is a very expensive business - and no artist ever wants the opening nights of a world tour to be the movie of the show. I'm not saying I know it didn't happen - it just makes little sense to me on any level.
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1987 Madonna = Amazing.
End of story!
Loved that NBC gave us this full version a few years back - they used like just a couple of minutes of it in 1987 - and that was it!! It took about 20 years until we got all of that!
And does anyone know anything more about Madonna and the Nicaraguan Contras?
She talks about giving money to them at about 21:10 in the interview - and then when asked further says "none of your business" after looking at Melissa.
I never heard Madonna mention Nicaragua anywhere else ever in the 1980s.
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First time I heard BOTH of these things
Yep the CT dancers told us in London they had to go to Wembley Arena early one day during the tour cos they were gonna film Jump in the afternoon with cameras on the stage throughout. Something that wouldn't have worked during the live shows!
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In any case since we now know they have LOST the Paris tapes I think it's safe to assume shows from the screens has not been archived in any real deliberate fashion. They probably have random things sitting around or for in the hands of HBO and others. For eg Reinvention screen footage got leaked but I'm doubtful Madonna or her team has anything to do with that. Someone probably salvaged it from that company that did the screens.
You could be right! But I'd like to live in hope and think that possibly all these tapes are stored somewhere.
With Michael Jackson - it was revealed that Nocturne Productions handed pro-tapes to his people after every show and they were all stored somewhere - most of them though either unlabeled or incorrectly labeled. But they did mostly exist 25 years later.
Who knows with Madonna though.
As for Re-Invention - just to clear that one up - what leaked is not strictly speaking standard "screen footage".
It's one edit of what was gonna be the Re-Invention Tour official release.
At the Lisbon shows, HDTV cameras were used to film for the DVD - and they filmed everything in 16:9 widescreen.
On all other Re-Invention shows, the Nocturne venue-screen crew used SD NTSC cameras and filmed in 4:3.
What we got is some kind of version of the 16:9 HDTV footage.
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Yeah. All her shows since her first WTG concert, were professionally filmed for venue screens (multiple camera angles using broadcast quality equipment and soundboard audio).
Although we don't know for sure, it is reasonable to assume that all were recorded and kept. The video company responsible for these videos also do the same for many many other artists on tour and apparently the video company never keep the recordings themselves.
These videos are not intended for use outside of their main purpose - to show people in concert venues a closeup view of the show. Although excerpts are often used outside of that - most commonly, clips are given to news outlets for their concert reports.
On these videos you rarely see any 'wide shots' of the concert stage or sweeping audience shots - if you think about it, that's cos people watching in arenas or stadiums don't need to see that!
A couple of years ago Michael Jackson's 1988 Bad Tour finally got a home video release - and since (shockingly) no full show had been filmed at the time for home video or TV, their only option was to put out one of the venue-screen recordings. And that's what they did! It is awesome - but it's almost entirely closeup shots and therefore quite different to typically released concert videos.
The same video company shot all MJ shows as has done so for Madonna, and interestingly, it was explained by the MJ estate when they released the Bad Tour, that ALL shows on the tour were indeed recorded onto U-Matic professional tapes at the venues by the video company doing the screen footage and each was handed over to MJ's management after the gig.
It is reasonable to assume the same practice has been in place on all of Madonna's tours since 1987 and therefore we can guess that every show from every tour she has done, might be stord somewhere!
Back to the original question - with regards Blond Ambition, there's no reason they would ever give us one of these shows, because they would never need to. there were a number that were fully filmed for broadcast / release (that do include all the wide-angle shots and audience footage that the others don't):
Confirmed:
Yokohama (NTSC Standard Definiton TV Cameras)
Paris (35mm Movie Cameras)
Barcelona (PAL Standard Definition TV Cameras)
Nice (PAL Standard Definition TV Cameras)
Rumoured:
Tokyo (35mm Movie Cameras)
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Madge was truly snubbed in 1989 when EY lost in all major categories to Paula Abdul.
And in 1990 when Vogue lost in all major categories to Sinead O'Connors crappy video.
For sure she criminally lost out those years - but she was nominated heavily in all the major categories both 1989 and 1990.
In fact Vogue broke the record for the most VMA nominations from one video in 1990.
1993 they really ignored her!
I mean how can LAV (Tod Movie Clips Video) be nominated for BEST FEMALE VIDEO in 1991 - yet Bad Girl, Rain, Deeper & Deeper or Fever not get nominated in 1993. That did it for me with the VMAS! :-)
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Will be amazing for sure!
In Japan, Rolling Stone issued something a bit similar in 2007 - containing all her Rolling Stone interviews from over the years.
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In 1993 when Bad Girl, Rain, Fever, Deeper & Deeper failed to get nominated in ANY of the non-technical categories, I realised the VMAs were just a TV show about promoting whoever was considered "the hottest" at the time.
This was the first year they'd snubbed her like that - even Madonna videos which weren't actual videos got nominated for "Best Female Video" and "Best Dance Video" in 1991 and 1992 ffs!!!
Previously I had stupidly thought the VMAs were a serious annual recognition of the music video artform.
And sure enough when Madonna was "cool" again in 1998, they were falling over themselves to nominate her once more.
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Matthew Rettenmund (longtime NY fan and author of Encyclopedia Madonnica) has just posted on Facebook:
"I can't say much of what I know about the REBEL HEART TOUR, but it has TONS of oldies ..."
"Many '80s hits."
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Big Brother rolling footage is archived
That's a relief. ;-)
I would like to think most stuff is now, but am amazed that some live stuff by major broadcasters still isn't!
And it's the older stuff I worry about. Such a shame!
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Even today, the BBC openly say that much of their rolling News Channel output is "not archived". That fascinates me!
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A crazy amount of TV stuff no longer exists in archives. It's sad.
I even know of some BBC Madonna stuff that seemingly was NEVER kept!!
Fans often have to take the lead on this. No one else cares much.
I talked to a former senior WB exec about this in depth a few years back (who worked with Madonna in the 80s) and it amazed me what WB apparently do not have!
Question: How many Blond Ambition shows were filmed?
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
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It's so sad because, with Nice in existence, I can't see them every bothering to do anything with BA Barcelona.
I liked the band a lot better that night apart from anything else!!!