vocalism
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"Waiting for Tonight" is a good one. He also did "I'm a Slave 4 U," right? And "Bad Romance." Honestly, his stuff is decent, but he's not amazing and I think BR is overrated by everyone.
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Kurt, I totally respect what you're saying. And again, I do think what Madonna was going was leaps and bounds ahead/more controversial than what Gaga is doing, partly because of the time period and partly because it was just more sophisticated and "new." But I think what Gaga is doing falls into the same "brand" of provocation. She's obviously influenced by that period of Madonna's career and it shows. I'm not saying it's on the same level, just that I think part of her decline in popularity right now is because of it.
12:51, I'm not sure it's just because Gaga won't "go away." There are plenty of artists who have been as prolific and in your face (Rihanna, Beyonce, Mariah). Hell, she's only been around for four years. Mariah put out an album a year for a decade! I think overexposure definitely plays a part, but I think if she were still releasing songs like "Just Dance" or even "Bad Romance," she'd be doing better. (Not that she's doing bad - she sold the same amount of albums in 2011 that she did in 2010 and 2009, and BTW was the third biggest selling album of last year, and it included four Top 10 hits, one of which was #1 for six weeks.) But I truly believe that the "Gaga fatigue" is partly due to her pushing certain cultural buttons. When BTW came out, I saw loads of people on other boards saying that she was instantly going to shrink her fanbase because the song was so "gay." To keep things on topic, Madonna was always popular with the gays for obvious reasons (like Gaga), but it's when she really started mining that demographic (LAP, "Vogue," Erotica) that she became a gay "icon."
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I suppose it is. After all, she was recording "Justify My Love" around her birthday in 1990, so it is likely that "Rescue Me" was done around the same time (Aug-Sept).
And Shep, Junior and all those people were part of the same DJ/club scene as Deee-Lite.
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Lady Miss Kier is amazing now and then, shes allowed an opinion. 
LMK shes actually quite nice about M, this sounds like its had a negative spin put on it. (Lets be honest, they do sound similar even though I bet M has never heard of it).I love Lady Keir. I'm friends with her on Facebook and she's really cool. Maybe she's just sensitive because she thinks Madonna ripped her off in 1990. We don't know the truth about what happened. I love both of those songs though!
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^ The conversation started because someone said that you can't expect Madonna to be on top at this stage in her career, that even Gaga was started to fade. We went off on a slight tangent about WHY Gaga's popularity has started to fade - and it's 100% relevant to Madonna's career. If you think we should start a new thread about this specific tangent, that's fair, but at what point does someone decide to do that. I don't think anyone intended it to go on this long. It happens. It's a forum! (And it's not like the title of this thread makes much sense anyway!)
I know it comes across that I'm just trying to dispute everything you say "just because" but I swear I'm really not!! I just find it interesting that you have observed this extreme vitriol towards Gaga because I just don't see it with the general public or the media. I'm not saying there aren't people out there that despise her because of Judas or BTW because I'm sure there are plenty, but I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't like her for any other reason besides "she's weird".....and I don't think those people HATE her.
Anyways, again, the things you mention in a somewhat jestful way in this post regarding Madonna's "controversies".....extremely sexual, nude photos leaking, Moral Majority against her.....from what I can tell all of those things caused far more of a "ruckus" and divided people about Madonna pretty early on moreso than Gaga at this point. Yes, through TB she was MORE accepted by the general public....as witnessed by the BIG drop in sales from TB to LAP but she always walked that fine line and I think with burning crosses and black Jesus' (in 1989) she finally crossed it and from that point on the
factor from her sexual image turned into more vitriol because of what was perceived to be her beliefs at the time. I mean when I think of Madonna at the very peak of her provocation she had America in complete meltdown mode (somebody actually said this recently in here). I just don't see where Gaga's provocation comes anywhere near that at this point in her career. Again, I'm not disputing what you say, I believe you have encountered people that HATE her in the way Madonna was hated....I'm just trying to figure out why??
I think I'm just desensitized at this point because there is absolutely nothing offensive about Gaga to me. I can't even look through someone elses eyes and see how she's THAT offensive.....kooky yes....weirdo yes.....annoying yes.....but offensive enough to provoke the strong hatred Madonna provoked?? That's just crazy to me!!
Well, I don't think we disagree all that much. I just think we keep getting away from the point. I'm not trying to say that Gaga causing as much controversy, or that the media has bashed her as much as Madonna. Hell no. All I'm saying is that Gaga's popularity has leveled off partly because she's taking on less mainstream topics and imagery. It doesn't compare to the Justify My Love/Sex period. But above and beyond what Madonna was doing circa Who's That Girl! Automatically when you start exploring more arty things, you're going to lose some of your audience - and THAT was all this conversation started out as. If Adele started using hyper-religious imagery and homoerotic imagery, her sales will drop.
Regarding the Gaga hate, I think the hate toward her among some Madonna fans is obvious, so I'm guessing you see that. But I've also seen online and in person people who think Gaga is manipulative, calculated, fraudulent, trashy, and completely unoriginal. They absolutely despise her and think she represents the worst of pop music and that she's even the END of it. Silly. Maybe all those people are secret Madonna fans, but I'm pretty sure some of them also think the same of Madonna.
I think there are always going to be conservative/puritanical/religious people who will never like someone like Madonna and Gaga because of what they stand for. But in Madonna's case, I don't think the average American really had a strong opinion about her. They either liked her music or didn't. By the early '90s, though, I think many, many average people thought she was a "slut." I'm not sure they "hated" her. I don't think anyone was sitting there going "I hate her for her progressive, subversive ideas!" They just thought she was trashy and flashing her tits all over the place.
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Okay, let me clarify a couple of things. I'd love to go through a react specifically to what each person is saying, but I still haven't figured out how to quote one person, respond, and then quote the next all in one post.
I completely disagree with those of you who don't think Gaga provokes strong reactions from people. I mean, all you have to do is look around a Madonna forum. I know, most Madonna fans don't like Gaga because they DON'T think she's being original or truly provocative, but you have to understand that most of America thinks she's outlandish and weird, and while much of that has to do with her crazy outfits, a lot of it has to do with her music and her messages, including "Born This Way" and "Judas." I know people who hate Madonna that hate Gaga ten times more. I mean, the amount of vitriol that people have for Gaga really is only comparable to Madonna in the early '90s. I was young in the '80s, but I honestly don't believe that Madonna received the same amount of criticism and hate at that point in her career. Sure, she was sexual, had nude photos, etc. etc., and while the Moral Majority of the '80s didn't like her, the majority of Americans and the world loved her and her work. That's why she was so popular. Her popularity started to decline a bit when she started exploring truly subversive topics like religion and homosexuality.
Point being: WE here might not think what Gaga is doing is so provocative and controversial. And most other people probably don't either, but the reactions she's getting are MUCH closer to Madonna circa 1989-1993 than Madonna in the '80s.
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Because it's not 1998 anymore.
Fair enough, but that didn't stop her from working with Paul Oakenfold or William Orbit again. And what I meant is that I'm surprised she's never worked with them, just like I'm surprised Michel Gondry has never directed one of her videos.
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No, I was just responding to someone who said that Gaga is starting to decline and that at this stage (four years into her career) Madonna was still on "top." So what I'm saying is that Gaga is attempting to provoke and deal with controversial issues much sooner in her career than Madonna did, so you can't really compare Gaga circa 2012 with Madonna circa 1987. Madonna was provocative, but not quite to the same level yet. She evolved more naturally and slowly into the angry, rebellious button-pusher that we all (presumably) came to love.
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You're all taking what I'm saying too literally. Of course Gaga doesn't compare to Madonna. Yes, Madonna was more controversial. Yes, Madonna had better songs. Yes, Madonna's pussy smelled better. My POINT is that Gaga provokes people in a SIMILAR way. The POINT is that she's ATTEMPTING to do things that Madonna did much further into her career. What Madonna was doing/wearing/saying in 1987 wasn't that far out of the mainstream. She wore leotards with cone tipped bustiers and sang songs about being a virgin and keeping her baby. It wasn't until 1989 and the early '90s that she really started getting under people skin in a big way and which started to turn people off. Gaga is doing that much earlier, for similar and different reasons. It's just a comparison. I'm not saying they're twins. Madonna is superior in almost every way.
Xanthie, I'm 32 and am well aware of the Erotica/Sex period and what it was like to be a fan at that time.
And neutrocks, I didn't join this forum two days ago. I don't know what you're talking about. Even if I did, people are only allowed to join a forum if they like the current single by that artist? That's fucking retarded. I love Madonna, but GMAYL sucks. Deal with it.
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I don't see why the album wouldn't hit #1 unless Adele dies the week before.
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Sure, Madonna's a housewife and mother, decides to ditch her baby and family like so she can strut the streets like a hooker, go to the club and try to relive her heyday as a Marilyn Monroe impersonator. Duh.
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^ Of course. Madonna scoring a Top 10 hit today is impressive. Every new hit she scores is a big feat. The odds are stacked against her. But GMAYL could have been bigger if it didn't suck so much. I'm not saying a truly innovative, brilliant song would do any better, because those kinds of songs don't do well in the U.S. (look at Robyn), but it could at least not suck so much.
I don't think this is true at all. Madonna's self titled basically was the first post-disco Dancepop album to hit the mainstream.
Also, Madonna's singles in the 90s and late 80s were musically challenging and innovative along with being lyrically good. Yes, Born This Way had more "challenging" lyrics, but hte production wasn't exactly innovative. None of the production on any of her singles this era really were.
I disagree, but I see your point. More importantly, her image wasn't as out there or button-pushing as Gaga's is. What Gaga is doing today is akin to what Madonna was doing in the early '90s.
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I may agree with you. The part that i like the most of it is the baby part but i guess the video could do without it. It's like the Material Girl video that has the musical part and the outdoor scenes throwed in the middle. It doesn't really breaks the fluidity but it would make more sense without it.
Still i love the baby part!
The baby part is kind of creepy. Not a fan. And the dancing in front of the wall is lame. So I'm sad to find out that the weakest parts of the video were M's idea. I like the idea of it being shot as if it's one long take. (Come to think of it, that's my favorite part of "4 Minutes" too.) Too bad Madonna ruined their idea.
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It could rebound the week the album drops. Just saying. It's less likely than it was with HU because the album is coming a few weeks later than usual, but I wouldn't say this is its peak necessarily. For now? Probably. Bring on single #2, although from what I've heard I don't think I'm going to like that one much either.
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I don't think many would be surprised if Mimi performed this way with a lead single these days. Like Madonna, she's "old" and not the "hot thing" right now. In fact the way GMAYL is performing worldwide (number one a couple places, top ten in many others) seems like the way a Mimi lead single would perform these days.
As far as Gaga goes, she's basically at the peak of her career (or was until very recently). Considering she's touted by many of her fans and media outlets as the "new Madonna" and current "Queen Of Pop" and often cited as the biggest pop star in the world at the moment, she should be scoring massive hits at this point. Let's look at Madonna when she was 4 years into her career, she was on top of the world. Between TB and WTG she scored 4 number one singles in less than 2 years in the US plus many more top 10's. Madonna however has LONG been past her peak and with each release it gets more and more difficult for her to get the hits. So yeah, if this were 1987 and we were going on about how great she is doing then it would look a little odd but being that it's 2012 and the stage she's at in her career I'd say she's doing quite well.
This isn't directed to you, just a general comment but I don't see how fans can hold her to the same standards when it comes to charts/sales that they hold the "current" stars to or to how Madonna performed in the past. Hung Up's and 4 Minutes' just aren't going to come as effortlessly these days. What's funny is I can DISTINCTLY remember fans being extremely dismissive of 4M chart performance. People that didn't like that song would come up with every reason in the book to dismiss it's massive success. I mean the song spent a month at number one in the UK and some fans were still finding ways to complain about it so basically Madonna can't win anyways. It seems like some were almost mad that it didn't fail because if it had they could say "see told you it's such a bad song nobody likes it" kind of mentality, but it didn't. If GMAYL had reached the top in 100 countries people that hate it would do the same thing and say "well it's JUST because she paid for plays....or it's just because Nicki....or it's just because she dumbed down her music." Now of course the reason that's it's NOT charting is because it's "just a terrible song". So if it were number one would it not be a terrible song??
Also I find it funny how haters of the song are completely dismissive of the special circumstances in the UK when it comes to this single. OBVIOUSLY it would've charted higher if the charts over there didn't have such stupid rules. It used to be the US charts were ridiculous with it's rules and the UK was getting it right....the US has stepped it up though, time for the UK to follow suit.
Except Mimi has the advantage of being a multi-format artist. Urban radio will play her new songs, but they wouldn't be caught dead playing a white artist, let alone Madonna. They didn't even play 4M. And Mariah is still young enough that she can pull off a big hit.
Regarding Gaga: While she's not as sophisticated (for obvious reasons) as Madonna was in the early '90s, she's basically pushing the same buttons Madonna was at that stage in her career. So even though Gaga is only four years into her career, I don't think you can compare "Born This Way" (which was #1 for six weeks btw) to the kind of mainstream, pretty unchallenging pop that Madonna was churning out in 1987. It wasn't until LAP and beyond that Madonna really pushed the envelope musically and culturally, and that's when her sales and chart stats started to dip, just like Gaga now.
I dislike 4M, but there's a difference: I heard it and thought it would be a big hit. The hook and production were strong, even if Madonna's vocals and lyrics irritated me. And even if it felt like a cheap ploy to score a hit. GMAYL, on the other hand, was shit from the beginning. If 4M had the promo GMAYL got, it would have shot straight to #1. The reason GMAYL is underperforming is because people don't like it very much. If it went to #1, it would still be a terrible song. I see what you're saying about the hypocrisy/double standard, but I'm not really convinced by your argument.
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TPOG had potential to land her another top ten if they dint change the rule. TPOG was much stronger single than GMAYL even if it was the 3rd/4th single!
Yes, I'd say ITG, TPOG, and "Beautiful Stranger" are the three singles that were hurt most by chart rules. All three would have likely cracked the Top 10, if not the Top 5. And ITG probably would have went #1.
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Can you imagine if the rule change that allowed Whitney to re-enter the Hot 100 at #7 had kept Madonna out of the Top 10? Bitches would have burned the Billboard offices down to the ground.
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Why is everyone acting like the song is over and that this will be its peak? "Hung Up" peaked the week the album was released and the same very well may happen this time. Also, Rihanna's "Only Girl" reached its peak when the album dropped too - and that was AFTER the second single had already hit #1. Granted, Madonna's not hot shit anymore, so that's unlikely to happen, but she could crack the Top 10 at the end of March when everyone will be buying the album.
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Who the fuck are those people? And why hasn't the Chemical Brothers remixed one of her tracks yet?
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Tired of the drama. Who the fuck produced Im Addicted and Superstar? Pleaseeee, no Benassi.
Rocco. With additional production by David.
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She should go on Suze Orman. She'll sell zillions.
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When are we going to stop blaming record labels and start blaming Madonna for making shitty music and trying to pass it off as art?
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Except 'Feedback' was a way better song.
And GMAYL is doing way better than "Feedback." GMAYL is more like Mariah's "It's Like That." So maybe there's a chance for a huge second single. I doubt it, but just hoping...
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^ When the promotion for the pre-order ended on Monday night, the reduced-price album was removed from iTunes and re-added at its normal price. Since GMAYL hadn't yet been released officially as a single (the release date was 2/7), the iTunes exclusive for GMAYL was removed as well and re-added as a "single." Until Tuesday, it was being sold exclusively on iTunes as part of the pre-order promotion.
It makes "sense" to me, but it's just idiotic. When Celebration's price went back up to normal, it wasn't removed and re-added, so I don't know why they couldn't just do the same thing with MDNA and GMAYL.
Turn Up The Radio vs. Girls Gone Wild for 2nd single
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
Posted · Edited by vocalism
I don't remember that. Only GMAYL. I think production wise it sounds like it could do well on American radio, but those vocals and lyrics are just...a step back again. Too similar to "Revolver."
Actually, I'm more interested in the track that was playing at that dancer contest at Webster Hall last year. The song that played when she walked out...