Ai Papi Si.
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Posts posted by Ai Papi Si.
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Wow, you really have a booty fetish. You like female booty as well?!
Hahaha. No not really. I like the human body in general. I find well proportioned/accentuated physiques really fascinating. Even with girls. There's something powerful about showing off a good body. And that's my GetUnconscious moment for the day.
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You see I don't think you can say numbers and chart positions mean nothing when determining somebody's relevancy in the current music scene. A big part of being relevant is if people are willing to spend their hard earned money on you, that's the bottom line. You can be talked about until the cows come home (and buzz IS important too...don't get me wrong) but if you're talked about and talked about but you aren't generating revenue for anybody then you won't be talked about for much longer. There have been acts in the past who's hype doesn't match their actual "success" (or lack thereof) and we don't hear about them anymore.
YOU may have liked HC for only a few months and YOU may find her work lazy in comparison to Gaga and Beyonce and that's fine. You are obviously entitled to feel however you want. Fortunately for her though, her commercial success in ALL areas recently doesn't reflect that opinion. I keep reading how Madonna was still "the pulse" in the Music era and that I definitely do not agree with. Madonna had incredibly good buzz surrounding her at the time after the success of ROL which IMO made people more open to hearing her "Music" when it was released. But "the pulse"?? No...I don't think Madonna has been that since 1985. Just as many thought in 2000 that she was old, past it, desperate and needed to let it go as they do now. In fact many people have had that mentality since 1993.
And you are right, she is putting her efforts in other places now because that's what EVERYBODY (if they are smart) will be doing within the next few years. Of course she's AHEAD (as usual) of these novices so she's got a step up on 'em (again as usual). But does putting more focus into live shows vs. music videos make her irrelevant?? Or do YOU just not like that she's not paying as much attention to her videos. Again, regardless of your personal opinion on it, those videos helped inspire enough people to buy Hard Candy to push it up to one of the highest selling albums of the year last year. I think many of us who grew up in the "golden age" of MTV are having a hard time with the fact that the "golden age" is over. Videos aren't irrelevant by any means, but she conquered and changed that medium when it REALLY mattered. Video was THE means for promotion to sell your album...which was her top source of income...more than the tours in those days. Now of course, that's all reversed and where she's focusing her efforts is a reflection of that change. Can you blame her?
I think the power of video is just as important as it was 15 years ago. A little something called YouTube has reinvigorated the medium. How quickly we all forget that 4 Minutes was on its way to becoming one of the most viewed videos of all time on YouTube before Warner pulled it. We're talking close to 100 million views by now had it not been yanked. For all the flack I give 4 Minutes, it was the perfect video for her to release at the time, and it paid off. So I don't agree that video is unimportant or that its over now. All you have to do is search "Beyonce" or "Kings of Leon" on youtube to see how many millions of people still love to watch music videos.
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This is confirming what I say. You're missing the eras and you're blaming that on Madonna, ignoring that things can't be like what they were. Gaga HAD to do the era and visual stuff because she's a NEW artist breaking in and has record label backing to achieve that. But it's weird to expect Madonna to continue with all that just because it's always been like that. Her realizing the need of change is actually a sign of relevance. She is NOT abandoning musical projects if she BUILDS A TOUR AROUND THE RECORD! I know it's a matter of opinion, but come on, I get more joy from a 2 hour long Madonna show than 3-4-5 Madonna videos that can be watched on the pc screen.
Well I agree with you here, that I do miss the times when MAodnna would make good videos, but really, is that so bad? And I only referenced the awful Gaga because she really gives the fans a lot to play with. I miss that about Madonna and that's one reason non-fans may see her as "over" because well, all she does is tour and release really frilly fluffy videos. I dont see it that way of course. But I do wonder f its because she's abandoning record labels in favor of touring or if its because she's just really sick of it? I don't have the answers, I guess you have them all.
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First of all Danny, I don't get this aggressive attitude you're giving me, as I was pretty civil and calm with the way I responded to you and I never implied that my comments about fans "settling" were directed toward you in specific, yet you're giving me the business. If you want to have a convesation about this, don't act like a fucking baby. Moving on...
In that case, why was Janet's tour a flop? She used to be a huge tour draw and like I said in one of the earliest posts in this thread, the RN tour was more likely bigger than BAT in terms of commercial success. If people flock to Madonna show because of her name, doesn't that mean she still has that IT that her contemporaries lost? And why is that not "relevant"?
Do you really think people in the biz think like that as fans on forums, who set fireworks for a #1 single but dismiss tour success of the big acts as something that comes by itself, as in Madonna's case, performing ITG and LAP? If that was so easy, why is it always the same 5 acts getting the huge touring success?
Janet to me was never a contemporary of Madonna's. Success for her was limited to the US. All I hear about Janet is how badly she does worldwide. So I don't even think of Janet hwen I think of Madonna. Her tour flopped because she truly, utterly lost the plot. Madonna has not.
And there you are again, the usual "some fans are happy to SETTLE FOR CRAP"... WTF?! I get that for you "Die Another Day" is the absolute peak of her career (even though it actually brought NOTHING new FOR HER because it was the continuation of the Music album and I'm glad to reference Bad Robot with that) but why the bashing of those who enjoy her stuff now and ARE NOT FORCING THEMSELVES to do that?Basically you're saying her output is not good enough for you and you're putting a = between that and "relevance". So if YOU personally feel she's not good enough, then no numbers and critical acclaim could be enough to balance that out to make her "relevant", is that correct?
Wow. No, I referenced Die Another Day because it was a good example of her making a really unconventional song and having it turn into a moderate success for her because people were dying to hear music from her. And I do consider it a continuation of Music yes, but it was still a very different twist on what she was doing before and despite some fans hating it, I think it was a very creative single. So shoot me.
I don't reference numbers anymore because like Kurt has been saying to me over and over, Hard Candy was a success. Okay, wonderful. Congratulations Madonna. I think there is a certain amount of buzz that follows Madonna still, but it has dimmed considerably and I think regardless of what I think about Hard Candy, her efforts to tap into the Timbaland world, while not unsuccessful entirely, were pretty much forgotten about within months. What is your theory?
You're not pointing out any facts, just once again letting me know you don't like what she does now. I don't see how "Human Nature" can be a counter example when it reused the "express yourself" message and Madonna basically sang over a hip hop sample (and not saying that because of the R&B thing either), and it's hardly the first time with CS/4M/R that she sings nonsense or fun lyrics, the majority of the Music album is vapid lyrics and has no message... You bash me for saying she was always pop and R&B, but I say you're really overrating her past work if you claim she always had something to say. How many songs on TIC fall into that category? And are "Drowned World", "Mer Girl", "Paradise" or "Easy Ride" a typical representation of her work? And even I am bored of repeating this, but HC is not a message-less vapid album CS and 4M implies, but her singles were ALWAYS the accessible ones with rare examples.The only reason I used the latest work is becuase well, its the most glaring example. I can even reference Confessions, which I love, for lazy juvenile lyrics. That album was saved by really amazing melodies and hooks. And its interesting that you're only using her 2000's work to gage her message when I specifically went into the mid 90s to point out that she was putting effort into what she said all the way up until American Life (although it was a bit clumsy at that point). The lyrics on Music may seem vapid to you but I think a lot of them are great. She doesn't have to be reciting Ray Of Light - style poetry all the time for her lyrics to be good to me. But comparing her poon to lollipops or tlaking about her booty getting down just don't do it for me. Again, shoot me. I think she was trying a bit too hard by that point.
And let me ask you this, what's the need of this "I still love her and support her but it's a fact her career is not the same anymore" attitude? Why are you shoving her down on your throat if she doesn't satisfy you anymore? And by saying she's not the same anymore, do you think that makes you an "objective" fan? Because this is the same attitude the same 5 people are trying to impose on those who are not like "oh I wish it was like the old days again" and is pretty tiresome at this point. You want to get impressed by Madonna the same way you did some years ago when you became a fan, but when she doesn't do that, you immediately say the problem is with her. No, you don't have to like her everything she does, and contrary to popular assumption, I don't like everything she does either. I'm not a huge fan of the "Celebration" song and for me it pales in comparison to anything on COADF and HC but I don't start thinking like "oh this is a lazy song, she's so bored now, why can't she care? what is she gonna happen? are the princesses really stealing her crown?"...When did I call you a NON-objective fan? And when did I say I wish it were the old days? You really have an issue with putting words into my mouth.
Madonna has unimpressed me many times over the years I've been a fan, going all the way back to 2000 when she did that ridiculous cover of American Pie or in 2003 when she did the embarassing Me Against The Music and those stupid books. Or in 2004 with hte terrible Reinvention Tour. Stop painting me as this idiot with no perspective. I don't think anyone's going to steal her crown. Impossible. I just think that in the last year or 2 she's been in a creative lull and it hasn't totally damaged her career but it has certainly been pointed out by critics just as much. So if you wanna reference the CRITICS of all people, I can pull up a bunch of articles from reputable publications that talk about the Madonna of now and how she's changed. Not always for the better.
Because, why is it better if she gets great reviews (which is BUZZ) for an album, but not a show? A while ago you said "HC was one of those albums nobody cared for" but maybe, just maybe, at this point a tour gets more attention from the GENERAL PUBLIC than a CD? There aren't even pop albums anymore that get any attention anyway, so it's not even the gauge of relevance in any possible way by now. And actually she did get some trashing reviews for the RIT in the US and the S&ST in the UK so her tours are not universally acclaimed, but there definitely was an upward trend in the reviews of the 2008 S&ST US leg which was noted in the tour forum back then.Because albums are STILL a big deal. Just because they don't sell doesnt mean people aren't still downloading them and stealing htem. People WANT to hear music. If the music is good, the tours are going to be even more of a draw. That does make sense doesn't it? Madonna's reviews for HC were mediocre and her tour was adored. Okay, so what? The tour was a big deal. It's what has kept her in the spotlight. But not her music. Get what I mean?
How is pushing forward the industry with new and groundbreaking deals NOT making anyone relevant? I think it's ridiculous to imply Madonna and Prince can get the biggest slice out of the industry BECAUSE they were huge in the 80s. And I don't see why any of that should come below kids playing a songs on their iPods on the way to school or you driving to work and hearing a song 10 times on radio while driving. Like I said, that's an ancient way of thinking when it comes to relevance, just because radio makes a hit for you (like, Mariah's "Obsessed") it won't be considered as a relevant thing for 2009.Madonna would not be on the level she is today if it was all depended on the 15 huge hits she scored from 1984 to 1990. If she stopped making new stuff after 1990 and had to live on the TIC era hits forever, she'd obviously be still above Cyndi, Donna etc but would not be creating the buzz and earning trendsetting contracts for herself with that.
Well when have I argued that Madonna is not still A-list? I guess you just don't really get what I mean. And maybe I don't get what you mean. FOr me, her window of hype has eroded cosndierably in the last 3 or so years. That is ALL I am getting at. I am not saying she's lost her mojo completely. I think she's just lost it lately - STRICTLY musically. And again I will say that I am not just talking about Hard Candy. Although I did enjoy HC in parts, and loved hte 2 albums before that, I will admit that all 3 of them had a distinct air of fluffiness about them that wasn't seen prior with Music and its predecessors.
Anyway...
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It's impossible for Madonna or Prince to have the same relevancy that Gaga and Beyonce have. They are 20 something "it" girls who are most likely at the beginnings of long careers. So no, she's not going to get the same kind of "buzz" that younger acts get beause that type thing can only happen to younger, "cool" acts. BUT Madonna shares (many times surpasses) them in terms of sales, airplay and gossip/buzz AND critical acclaim on a worldwide level. Last year Hard Candy was a bigger success WW than the latest albums of Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Britney Spears, Kid Rock, Alicia Keys, Pink, Kings Of Leon, Miley Cyrus, Jonas Brothers, Nickelback, Mariah Carey and Usher....just to name a few. Major corporations want her face to endorse their product. I would assume that's because they feel Madonna is RELEVANT enough to hopefully push more of their product off the shelves.
I'm sorry but irrelevant people don't have this MASSIVE of successes....they just don't. AGAIN...I'm not saying she's the "pulse" right now. But to call her completely irrelevant to current music, when her CURRENT music is bigger on a worldwide level than most acts named "relevant" (due to undefineable "buzz") in this thread is borderline stupid IMO.
Consider this, people are suggesting someone that has generated nearly half a BILLION dollars for the music/touring industry this past year is irrelevant to the current music scene. I'm sure some bigwigs at WB and LN would fail to agree.
Well unlike you, I don't break Madonna's relevancy down to numbers or chart positions. That to me means absolutely nothing. To me, Hard Candy's success lasted all but a few months. We never heard anything about it again. Glad that it sold well, though.
Relevant in the touring industry? ALways has been, probably always will be. Relevant in terms of still being able to sell a solid 4 million around the world? I guess. Good for her. But releasing a mere 2 videos for the album, making an oddly pathetic album sleeve, completely abandoning musical projects in favor of touring (which is fine!)just seems to me like her focus is somewhere else. I brought up Lady Gaga and Beyonce NOT because they have hit singles. I bring them up because they're contemporaries of Madonna who have generated a considerable amount of palpable buzz just by releasing great videos, putting a lot of work into the visuals, and really fixating on putting out the best possible product for the fans. And this is coming from someone who pretty much detests Lady Gaga's music.
I do think buzz is definable. Have we all forgotten what it was like before American Life came out? Madonna was "the pulse" right up until that moment. Things aren't the same anymore not because she's flopped a whole bunch of times. It's because she's not making much of an effort to build on the projects she's created like she used to. Even Music, with its 3 singles, had an "era" feel to it. She last did that with Confessions, only she released 1 good video and pretty much slept her way through the other 3. I mean, that's fine if she doesn't wanna make videos, but I'd rather her just pull a Trent Reznor and not make any at all if she hates doing them so much now. This kind of "brushing off" of the mediums she used to dominate is what makes her seem irrelevant to me. She's putting her efforts somewhere else.
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Well... isn't he? He had his comeback in 2004 with a top 5 album, his first major performance in years (with Beyonce at Grammies), made a successful tour, I think on one list, not sure if Boxscore, Pollstar or Forbes he was #1, ahead of Madonna. Then in 2006 he got a #1 album without any radio play, performed on American Idol, in February 2007 he got the Superbowl performance which was named one of the best Halftime shows ever in the press, and not just because he was literally bathing in purple rain. Then he pissed record labels off when he gave away a CD for free with a newspaper, his O2 residency proved to be not only a huge success, but also trendsetting and this year he got the Target deal which was dubbed as the "future" for artists and his sentiments about record labels are now repeated by Madonna, not to mention all 4 albums in this period got favorable reviews and he even got some Grammies. That's quite a lot of things going on for someone who made zero dent in the business from 1997-2003 and kept releasing self-indulgent mess like The Rainbow Children... Dismissing all that by saying he had no single out there and his albums didn't break any ground is not exactly fair.
I still say that Madonna's new groundbreaking (as called by the press and the industry) record/tour deal is the testament to her relevancy. Any artist who has brains would sell their souls for something like that, because Madonna's future is sealed while theirs isn't. Selling loads of $0.99 singles in 2009 does not mean they will manage to do that a year later, neither that they have a stable place in the industry. I'm sure everyone in the pop business is aware of that these days, whether they are writing or producing songs themselves, or they are record label puppets. Also, why is a tour "beneath" a single or an album? Madonna's S&ST got better reviews in the US than RIT or CT did and none of them were going on about "why is this old bitch on tour again" or "why is she singing LIB or ROL again?" or "why can't she wear something else than black", neither they got offended when Madonna used the guitar...
I guess some just don't want to accept the industry is going in a different way now and "relevant" means something else now, or they don't like the route Madonna is following now. Saying fans who speak up for her are loons living in 1985 is rich coming from those who seem to act like things are still as if it was 1999 and want everything to be like they were when they discovered Madonna.
I don't consider sellout tours, as impressive as they may be, gauges of an audience's connection with the general public. Like Madonna said, you can't replace a live show. People are going to flock to it because of her name. That doesn't make her "relevant" in the way I personally have interpreted that word.
As that guy from Pink Is The New Blog said, Madonna isn't hungry anymore or interested in setting trends - AT THIS TIME. She's not dabbling in anything new or being especially innovative anymore with the way she presents her image. Her music seems to echo that as well (despite the the insulting nonsense that some fans come up with when they say "OH MADONNA'S MUSIC WAS NEVER INNOVATIVE, IT WAS LIGHT POP AND R&B FROM START TO FINISH"). I'm sorry but there's a big difference between a song like effing REVOLVER and a song like Die Another Day which was a mere 7 years ago. Right now Madonna is dividing fans because she's become especially focused on business and touring and less focused on being creative musically. Some fans are happy to settle for crap like Revolver, or throaway Celebration (and don't get me wrong, it's cute). I personally am left wondering why she's sounding this bored with her music right now. Is it because she's already accomplished and covered so much in her 26 year career? I don't know. But Madonna's career is not what it once was.
All this said, I still love her and I still support her and look forward to what she does because I am a fan and will continue to be forever. But I am happy to point out the facts. I don't see her musical devolution from (I'll throw in all mid 90s R&B song to prove my point that is has ZERO to do with me not wanting her to do R&B) Secret/Love Tried To Welcome Me/Human Nature to 4 Minutes/Candy Shop/Revolver as being an innocent "oh that's just what she feels like doing!" I see it as her really not having much to say.
Maybe Madonna's passion lies in touring right now, which she seems to consistently blow out of the water. I don't see how it makes a difference what reviews she got this time around. She got great reviews for all her tours because they were great tours. So do The Rolling Stones. What's your point?
And going back to Prince - I see his minor success in 2004 (and to a lesser extent, in 2006) as being the strength of his still existing fanbase. But let's not be ridiculous here. Prince may still be making music but his influence and hype vaporized long ago. There is nothing relevant about appearing on American Idol. THat just means he appeared on American Idol and the Super Bowl. Guess who else was once on American Idol. Jewel. Who cares? He's a big name because he held a piece of time that was very significant to pop music. Just like Madonna. Doesn't make him relevant in the same way Beyonce or Lady Godga currently are. Same for Madonna. All the stuff you said - the free CDs, the record label drama, the Grammy performance - how does any of that make him relevant?
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Btw, the Spinning Around video is probably the TRASHIEST video I've ever seen
HOWEVER, Kylie has a traffic stopping lower body in it. So yeah, it's total trash, but my god, what an ass. -
I've never seen anyone so unsexy in my life.
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That's not true. There definitely are people who do frown about it regardless of gender.
It would be incredibly naive to say that women and men are given equal treatment when it comes to that. Collectively, people brush off Sean Penn or Bruce Willis as "oh, those silly old men!" With Madonna (or another "cougar" ) people grimace and recoil.
I personally think its great that Madonna is enjoying her young FWB.
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All of the examples you've named in this thread like Prince, George Michael, Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney haven't had hit songs or albums in ages, so no they aren't relevant to the current music scene but they certainly aren't completely irrelevant either. If you can get thousands or millions of people to pay money to come see you live then you have some sort of relevance. Miley may not be INFLUENCING pop culture, but that doesn't make her irrelevant. She's a queen to little tween girls everywhere, they made her tour a HUGE success and the rate they buy her albums has made her one of the top selling female artists of the past few years, hit singles plus the TV show. Anytime I step foot into a store it seems like her face is on some product or another plus the magazine covers. Someone with that omnipresence and success is not irrelevant.
Obviously, you must not have thoroughly read my posts. I'm WELL AWARE Madonna isn't the "hot thing" or "it" girl of the moment and she hasn't been since 1985. I'm not saying she's the most influential out there right now or that the world is "bopping" to her beat. I'm simply laying out the cold hard facts of her achievements recently....and they are impressive. Calling someone irrelevant who's achieved that much recently is a bit inaccurate.
Prince had a hit album as recent as 2004. Would you have said he was relevant then?
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That's because u don't have a sense of humour. She's obviously just 'going over' her dance moves in gym scene..practising
her dance moves 4 the club later that night..has nothing 2 do with her accident. The SNF reference is when she's walking the street
in the leather jacket..well duh..I didn't know one actually had 2 think 2 get the HU video
The video is hot MADONNA IS HOT. END OF STORY.
THANK YOU!
Even if it was just Madonna dancing in the gym the whole time - can't you tell that her moves are obviously referencing the way people danced in the 70s? It was also very much like that Jamie Lee Curtis movie which I forget the name of.
Oh Waiting. You're like a damp rag that someone uses to clean their kitchen counter. *Shakira moment*
You post the same things OVER AND OVER. -
I wouldn't say Madonna is handling the old thing well at all
a few hits, but A LOT of misses. This next decade will be interesting, if anything. I can't say the cliche job of being a cougar with a boy toy is all that exciting or interesting really.
Shrug. I like that she's open about it. Dating men her age would be - as she put it - boring. Let her have her fun. That's what she's always been about. Having a good time.
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I think it would be a more 'Madonna' thing to do to feel more comfortable in her (older) skin and not get her cheeks blown up and buy herself a brazilian toy. Its like middle aged men who dye their hair and get a convertible sports car. Everyone just laughs at them. Insecurity doesnt become her.
But I dont want to derail the subject. This is about Kurts enjoyment of Madonna being ruined by the worlds perception of her
I guess I've just accepted the plastic surgery at this point. She's obviously insecure about her age but in other ways, her ability to go on TV/radio and admit that she's happy never marrying again and admitting that she likes younger guys just seems ballsy and cool of her. She seems comfortable being a cougar. It would be one thing if she was planning on marrying again or being all boo-hoo about her divorce and looking a mess. But she takes good care of herself and looks hot and I think she knows it for the most part. I like Madonna this way.
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And to add to what I said on the previous page - I think Madonna is handling the "old" thing quite well. She goes through phases of looking totally ridiculous (and I choose to believe she knows it), then going through phases where she seems totally cool and laid back, like she is now. I actually really applaud the whole Jesus Luz thing. I think it shows she still has that spiciness about her. If anything, her being a cougar will keep her in the tabloids. But other than that, Madonna's kind of in the sunset of her career right now. And I personally am not bothered by it. I am looking forward to hearing and seeing more of her.
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Madonna is still A-list but in terms of her relevancy - well compare the overall "mood" surrounding her circa 2000/2001 to the "mood" that surrounds her now. Anyone who has been a fan for at least 10 years can sense the difference. And it doesn't boil down to hits or tours. It is a simple observation of how the public responds to her now. Back then Madonna was sheer event with everything she did. Now she's far less so.
Why people are having such a problem accepting this is beyond me. Madonna is still successful and still respected. But she's getting older. In less than a decade she will be 60. It's not rocket science people. The older you get, the less people are going to be interested in what you do. Do you think the collective media of today, with Twitter, TMZ, Lady Gaga, Dancing With The Stars, American Idol etc, really cares as much as they did 10 years ago? I'm sorry but they don't. And why does it matter? Do you care? Good. That's all you need.
I have to echo what some people are saying Kurt - it seems like you're REALLY preoccupied with how the world/fellow fans see her. Let it go.
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How so? I think it could have gained some more attention to it.
About the albums, COADF - last album, HC - current album, duh. She was still on tour during this, this is almost 2 months old.
Oh it would have been a really bad move. Come on now.
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But it wasn't off her last album
So how does Madonna misspeaking make her out of touch?
Oh, QB - you really are trying WAY too hard lately. -
at her calling Gaga's show a mess. TRUTH.
Oh and Sorry WAS a big hit - just not in the USA.
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Yeah Madonna's at the tipping point right now. I really hope she knows what she's doing because I have spent years on Madonna forums repeating to my fellow fans "well, it could be worse, at least she's not Share"... the minute her face turns into a hunk of stretched latex with eyebrows, it's gonna be very hard defending poor Margaret. I like to think she's not gonna go any further but who knows.
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I actually liked Boniqua's version of the song, but I think Madonna sounds like shit on it. It sounds like an artifical robot of Madonna recorded it.
Because it was so badly produced in the end, I hope it doesn't get released.
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Jesus!
Sounds like a conversation between imalq and I!
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^ Their silence is deafening
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Yeah I really can't get over Madonna's sexiness as of late. Last night she was such a vixen. It's like she only gets more alluring with age.
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An Oprah interview would be the best possible promo.
All of those housewives who were in their teens and twenties when she first came on the scene.
She just needs to make sure that she doesn't look too hot so that all of those inevitably frumpy housewives won't feel bad about themselves and not buy Celebration.
See what I mean everbody
Madonna's Hung Up 'least sexy music video of all time'
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
Posted
Did she really? Awww how adorable.
Jean Claude, I love him.