New album: Confessions on a Dance Floor Part 2

[Carey]

None of the chart stuff matters anymore. 

Okay, I digress. I understand we always want to see her on top. But the idea she, at almost 70 years old and nearly 45 years into a career, is competing with Taylor Swift commercially is genuinely ludicrous. 

Her closest living contemporaries are Cher, Parton and Streisand. Maybe Mariah Carey but even then Madonna predates her by about a decade. We need to readjust our expectations. I hope it does well, but the barometer of that now is the public reassessing and saying, yeah she can still pull it out the bag. It's not competing with Swift on streaming.

[luizotaviobarros]

6 minutes ago, robster said:

If she comes out the gate with a strong first single then that is half the battle. Everyone counted her out after American Life and then there was Hung Up. Super strong infectious lead with an amazing video and loads of hype. Entirely different landscape of course but it's the music that has to pull people in first and foremost and with Stuart at the helm I have no doubt that it will be fresh and primarily VERY catchy, infectious and in the here and now!

Yes, true. But US radio will continue to ignore her regardless if the first single is indeed a dance track (and at this point there's no reason to assume otherwise). A strong Popular-type song would get some airplay on RB/AC stations, but (fortunately) not with Stuart as the helm. In the UK she'll be limited to BBC 2, unless she has a Padam moment and gets some love from Capital FM. 

At the same time, it *is* true that she did secure a #1 spot for MX with virtually no radio support beyond some airplay for Crave, which only came long after the album was released anyway. 

[metalissimo]

11 minutes ago, luizotaviobarros said:

Yes, true. But US radio will continue to ignore her regardless if the first single is indeed a dance track (and at this point there's no reason to assume otherwise). A strong Popular-type song would get some airplay on RB/AC stations, but (fortunately) not with Stuart as the helm. In the UK she'll be limited to BBC 2, unless she has a Padam moment and gets some love from Capital FM. 

At the same time, it *is* true that she did secure a #1 spot for MX with virtually no radio support beyond some airplay for Crave, which only came long after the album was released anyway. 

One of the reasons Madame X debuted at no 1 on Billboard 200 was because of the ticket bundles when they gave away the copies of Madame X albums to tour ticket buyers. Now Billboard rule doesn't allow ticket bundles anymore. 

[luizotaviobarros]

6 minutes ago, Carey said:

None of the chart stuff matters anymore. 

Okay, I digress. I understand we always want to see her on top. But the idea she, at almost 70 years old and nearly 45 years into a career, is competing with Taylor Swift commercially is genuinely ludicrous. 

Her closest living contemporaries are Cher, Parton and Streisand. Maybe Mariah Carey but even then Madonna predates her by about a decade. We need to readjust our expectations. I hope it does well, but the barometer of that now is the public reassessing and saying, yeah she can still pull it out the bag. It's not competing with Swift on streaming.

I think I tend to agree with you, though I'm not sure about the Streisand/Dolly comparisons, neither of whom are still in the public conscience as much as Madonna, who's a sort of a "semi- legacy act, but not quite" in her own way, on her own terms. 

As a gay man living in Brazil, where M is still royalty (though perhaps not as much as in Mexico), I know three types of Madonna fans:

1. The harcores, like us, who'll support her no matter what. 

2. The old-timers who used to be huge fans but who just don't like her recent output. They'd be willing to give the new stuff a chance and welcome her back with open arms. But for these people, features with pop/rap artists they've never even heard of or, say, a more Diplo-esque sound a la Unapologetic Bitch would be major, major turnoffs. 

3. Mylennials and some GenZers who like her politics, her activism, who may follow her on TikTok, and who might've even been there for the MX rollout, but who are still waiting for a BANGER, something we haven't had in a while. 

A strong, cohesive album with strong melodies and a killer production might get groups 2 and 3 back. Think Jessie Ware's It's Your Pleasure but with Madonna's unique vision, touch, and "brand recognition."

[metalissimo]

22 minutes ago, Confessit said:

No more over dosing on vocoder and 12 minute songs.

I agree with you, with Stuart at the helm and the updates we have seen thus far, she is back to making music for the masses.

I mean COADF was designed to impact strongly and its lead single designed to tear the speakers in half.

One would have an educated guess for Confessions 2, she will have the same mindset….

I think she is also going for something infectious & catchy. My body is ready.

Im fatter and have crows feet compared to Confessions 1 in 2005…..but ill be out there on the dance floor to another killer lead single when it rolls in. 

You can't compare it with COADF release that was 20 years ago in 2005. Back then streamings were not included on Billboard 200.

Now, she's 67, radios won't play her new single. 

Even Mariah Carey who is 56, her new single didn't get radio airplay in the US. 

[Sokrates5]

40 minutes ago, robster said:

If she comes out the gate with a strong first single then that is half the battle. Everyone counted her out after American Life and then there was Hung Up. Super strong infectious lead with an amazing video and loads of hype. Entirely different landscape of course but it's the music that has to pull people in first and foremost and with Stuart at the helm I have no doubt that it will be fresh and primarily VERY catchy, infectious and in the here and now!

Exactly! If they produce a strong lead single like Hung Up, everyone will write and say “Madonna is back”, even though she never left. Sounds familiar? Of course, we have been there! But I obviously admit it’ll be much harder for her to climb up the charts now. However, if the lead single is powerful, almost everything is possible.

[Confessit II]

17 minutes ago, metalissimo said:

You can't compare it with COADF release that was 20 years ago in 2005. Back then streamings were not included on Billboard 200.

Now, she's 67, radios won't play her new single. 

Even Mariah Carey who is 56, her new single didn't get radio airplay in the US. 

I was comparing the type of album she is recording now to COADF not commercial viability. 

Of course Madonna cannot compete with streaming.

But I still believe the album we are getting will have the masses in mind.

And with Stuart at the helm there is a high possibility of a killer bop for a lead single.

Those 2 have form in that 

If Kylie can get some traction with PP, then Madonna surly can with her lead single…

Madonna hasn’t produced a killer lead single since was 50, that’s 17 years ago……times HAVE changed, but can you imagine the press and the reaction if she was to tip out another hard hitting bop…..heaven!

[Sokrates5]

9 minutes ago, metalissimo said:

You can't compare it with COADF release that was 20 years ago in 2005. Back then streamings were not included on Billboard 200.

Now, she's 67, radios won't play her new single. 

Even Mariah Carey who is 56, her new single didn't get radio airplay in the US. 

That’s partly because Mariah’s new songs aren’t great and aren’t catchy, either. I don’t doubt that ageism plays a significant part in this, and that radio stations will refuse to play Madonna. But if her lead single is strong, people will hear it and read about it in one way or another. And if it connects, then she’ll have a moderately successful song. 

[Paul]

I think to keep in mind that it really doesnt matter how good the songs are, streaming performance doesn't work that way. The people who stream music are not the same people who buy music, and they consume it differently. The platforms clearly decide which songs to push or ignore, which is about them making money, not about good music. They already know that M fans dont stream M songs, so there's no reason for them to add her to playlists.

It seems clear Taylor has done some kind of deal with Spotify at least for promotion. M's team should explore something - such as buy the CD, get 3 months free spotify, which then pushes M's music to those new accounts. Its all about manipulation these days, and M's team needs to get on board.

Manipulation is (unfortunately) also all about the number of tracks on an album and the track lengths. You need to maximise 'album counts' based on length of listening. VE streaming probably suffered from having long tracks that you need to play through twice to count as 1 album streamed.

Also, have some streaming-exclusive tracks/versions of songs. (or the entire album - eg individual tracks on CD, continuous mix on streaming. 

I think artists still make more money from 1 album sold vs 1 album equivalent streamed, and so Guy O probably doesn't care about streaming, but there are ways to get people to buy the CD but then stream it too.

[dollhouse]

1 hour ago, metalissimo said:

One of the reasons Madame X debuted at no 1 on Billboard 200 was because of the ticket bundles when they gave away the copies of Madame X albums to tour ticket buyers. Now Billboard rule doesn't allow ticket bundles anymore. 

Naah, people had to redeem the digital copy album for it to count and it wasnt that much and most did it later than first week anyway

She sold 90k of the physical

[Confessit II]

11 minutes ago, dollhouse said:

Naah, people had to redeem the digital copy album for it to count and it wasnt that much and most did it later than first week anyway

She sold 90k of the physical

Didn’t Mariah sell waaaaay less than this with her last album the year before MX on Mariah’s opening week?

I don’t think Mariah is a very fair comparison to Madonna today as I’ve seen in some posts….

Yes, they are both legacy acts but Mariah’s commercial viability has been less than Madonna’s as they both enter pure legacy periods. 

Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought Madonna’s last album met with a better reaction than Mariah’s.

[dollhouse]

12 minutes ago, Confessit said:

Didn’t Mariah sell waaaaay less than this with her last album the year before MX on Mariah’s opening week?

I don’t think Mariah is a very fair comparison to Madonna today as I’ve seen in some posts….

Yes, they are both legacy acts but Mariah’s commercial viability has been less than Madonna’s as they both enter pure legacy periods. 

Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought Madonna’s last album met with a better reaction than Mariah’s.

Mariah is xmas act only, no competition at all to Madonna

[Steve]

She should release the single Friday and the new album in sept on the same date as Mariah. Early aughts 00 rematch.  It will get the legacy stans cat fighting to peak at #1 and get the songs to chart …dare I say streaming.  

[metalissimo]

35 minutes ago, Confessit said:

Didn’t Mariah sell waaaaay less than this with her last album the year before MX on Mariah’s opening week?

I don’t think Mariah is a very fair comparison to Madonna today as I’ve seen in some posts….

Yes, they are both legacy acts but Mariah’s commercial viability has been less than Madonna’s as they both enter pure legacy periods. 

Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought Madonna’s last album met with a better reaction than Mariah’s.

Yes, Mariah's last studio album "Caution" debuted at no 5 on Billboard 200 with 43.000 equivalent album units, 31.000 pure sales. 

[Icykiller]

Spotify is simply the new radio. Back then, if the radio didn't want to play you, they didn't. Top 40 was/is as limiting as any top hits Spotify playlist. So maybe strike a deal with them? Although tbh, I don't see how a #1 album in the BB200 counts as success these days. 

[dollhouse]

^yeah music sales are dead, concert tix are real success

[Beastialg]

Just for reference. The #3 album this week (new debut) was Renee Rapp "Bite Me". It opened with 64K album-equivalent units, of which 47K were pure sales. 

50-60K pure sales should be easily achievable for Madonna with her next album.

I feel Top 5 is a lock, Top 3 very likely. Top 1/2 depending the competition, the album reception and promotion.

[ThomasW]

Warners might release it on Father's day the same week as Bruce Springsteen or something 

or  next to Sam Smiths album or something

oh wait that did happen right? (in the UK)  

[luizotaviobarros]

3 hours ago, Confessit said:

 

Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought Madonna’s last album met with a better reaction than Mariah’s.

Yes, in sales, absolutely. 

But Caution was almost universally praised (80+ at Metacritic), whereas MX was a bit of a mixed bag. 

In fairness to Mariah, I think Caution is actually very well produced, with some pretty good songs and one or two fillers. 

[KalamazooJay]

5 hours ago, Carey said:

None of the chart stuff matters anymore. 

Okay, I digress. I understand we always want to see her on top. But the idea she, at almost 70 years old and nearly 45 years into a career, is competing with Taylor Swift commercially is genuinely ludicrous. 

Her closest living contemporaries are Cher, Parton and Streisand. Maybe Mariah Carey but even then Madonna predates her by about a decade. We need to readjust our expectations. I hope it does well, but the barometer of that now is the public reassessing and saying, yeah she can still pull it out the bag. It's not competing with Swift on streaming.

I can totally see why you would use those 3 as a comparison to Madonna, but when we really think about it, are they REALLY her contemporaries and can their careers really compare to hers? They are wildly successful in their own right, and I adore them,  but quite frankly, I don't think Madonna HAS a contemporary we can compare her career to anymore. She's really kind of this one woman pop anomaly at this point. All her TRUE contemporaries are...dead. 

She's truly out there on her own at this point in terms of being the last TRUE massive pop culture icon of her time, which is why people are still so fascinated with her I think. 

[ThomasW]

3 minutes ago, KalamazooJay said:

I can totally see why you would use those 3 as a comparison to Madonna, but when we really think about it, are they REALLY her contemporaries and can their careers really compare to hers? They are wildly successful in their own right, and I adore them,  but quite frankly, I don't think Madonna HAS a contemporary we can compare her career to anymore. She's really kind of this one woman pop anomaly at this point. All her TRUE contemporaries are...dead. 

She's truly out there on her own at this point in terms of being the last TRUE massive pop culture icon of her time, which is why people are still so fascinated with her I think. 

[acko]

17 minutes ago, KalamazooJay said:

I can totally see why you would use those 3 as a comparison to Madonna, but when we really think about it, are they REALLY her contemporaries and can their careers really compare to hers? They are wildly successful in their own right, and I adore them,  but quite frankly, I don't think Madonna HAS a contemporary we can compare her career to anymore. She's really kind of this one woman pop anomaly at this point. All her TRUE contemporaries are...dead. 

She's truly out there on her own at this point in terms of being the last TRUE massive pop culture icon of her time, which is why people are still so fascinated with her I think. 

Madonna’s true contemporaries were Prince and MJ.

[Beastialg]

54 minutes ago, acko said:

Madonna’s true contemporaries were Prince and MJ.

And Whitney. All dead. So I agreed that there is no one really like her right now. 

Dolly, Cher and Barbra started their career 20 years before Madonna released her first single. Mariah 8 after Madonna (she is more 90's)

Janet and Cyndi could be considered but both have been irrelevant for ages and never as big as Madonna.

[Sokrates5]

18 minutes ago, Beastialg said:

And Whitney. All dead. So I agreed that there is no one really like her right now. 

Dolly, Cher and Barbra started their career 20 years before Madonna released her first single. Mariah 8 after Madonna (she is more 90's)

Janet and Cyndi could be considered but both have been irrelevant for ages and never as big as Madonna.

Madonna is unrivalled in terms of her cultural and political influence anyway. 

[ashtangi74]

8 hours ago, Confessit said:

 

But if we want her to get to the top spot (and I’m sure M & Warners also want a debut at #1 in as many places as possible) she needs to release it without major competition.

So if Beyonce, sabrina Carpenter or Billie release an album in jan-feb-march u say she must delay the release till june, july next year?

[Sokrates5]

2 minutes ago, ashtangi74 said:

So if Beyonce, sabrina Carpenter or Billie release an album in jan-feb-march u say she must delay the release till june, july next year?

I honestly don’t think she cares. Maybe her team advise her a bit on this, but if your promotion and the album are great, who cares. 

[Sorcerer]

it is just incredible absolutely nothing has leaked yet, not even a tiny snippet.

[Carey]

2 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

I can totally see why you would use those 3 as a comparison to Madonna, but when we really think about it, are they REALLY her contemporaries and can their careers really compare to hers? They are wildly successful in their own right, and I adore them,  but quite frankly, I don't think Madonna HAS a contemporary we can compare her career to anymore. She's really kind of this one woman pop anomaly at this point. All her TRUE contemporaries are...dead. 

She's truly out there on her own at this point in terms of being the last TRUE massive pop culture icon of her time, which is why people are still so fascinated with her I think. 

Totally agree, she's in a league of her own in terms of fame and level of star power. And her actual contemporaries are long gone. 

I more meant, those three are the few left that you could argue have had the same level of longevity. Comparing Madonna to Taylor Swift is like comparing Meryl Streep to Sydney Sweeney, no one would do it.

[acko]

29 minutes ago, Carey said:

Totally agree, she's in a league of her own in terms of fame and level of star power. And her actual contemporaries are long gone. 

I more meant, those three are the few left that you could argue have had the same level of longevity. Comparing Madonna to Taylor Swift is like comparing Meryl Streep to Sydney Sweeney, no one would do it.

You're making a lot of sense today

[bard]

8 hours ago, luizotaviobarros said:

I think I tend to agree with you, though I'm not sure about the Streisand/Dolly comparisons, neither of whom are still in the public conscience as much as Madonna, who's a sort of a "semi- legacy act, but not quite" in her own way, on her own terms. 

As a gay man living in Brazil, where M is still royalty (though perhaps not as much as in Mexico), I know three types of Madonna fans:

1. The harcores, like us, who'll support her no matter what. 

2. The old-timers who used to be huge fans but who just don't like her recent output. They'd be willing to give the new stuff a chance and welcome her back with open arms. But for these people, features with pop/rap artists they've never even heard of or, say, a more Diplo-esque sound a la Unapologetic Bitch would be major, major turnoffs. 

3. Mylennials and some GenZers who like her politics, her activism, who may follow her on TikTok, and who might've even been there for the MX rollout, but who are still waiting for a BANGER, something we haven't had in a while. 

A strong, cohesive album with strong melodies and a killer production might get groups 2 and 3 back. Think Jessie Ware's It's Your Pleasure but with Madonna's unique vision, touch, and "brand recognition."

i agree with this. IF she drops something as great as What's Your Pleasure?, she won't need collabs. but if she doesn't, she's going to need something to keep it afloat. i'm obviously hoping for the former.  

 

8 hours ago, metalissimo said:

You can't compare it with COADF release that was 20 years ago in 2005. Back then streamings were not included on Billboard 200.

Now, she's 67, radios won't play her new single. 

Even Mariah Carey who is 56, her new single didn't get radio airplay in the US. 

well, mariah's last single did chart on adult R&B airplay, so i guess the equivalent for madonna would be dance airplay?

 

 

6 hours ago, dollhouse said:

Mariah is xmas act only, no competition at all to Madonna

i agree but at least her last single charted on the hot 100. the last time madonna did that with a solo song was 2009.