bard Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 5 hours ago, Confessit said: Yeh I totally get that. But I think that’s lost to an untrained eye who wouldn’t know about that. It is Che Guevara and it depicts a revolutionary fighter image. As an image of Madonna it’s strong but I think it is disjointed in terms of what the album is actually about. The military style typography laid on top with the blood red elements was certainly a strong looking package, but I think the album is mostly folky and spiritual over raw and angry, but I totally get the revolutionary representation of it. Wasnt the shoot an absolute fortune? I remember reading at the time it cost like 100s of thousands of dollars. AL is about as political as Music was "country." so I don't really have an issue with it. it didn't NOT make sense.
promise to try Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 6 hours ago, bardo said: AL is about as political as Music was "country." so I don't really have an issue with it. it didn't NOT make sense. Music is not country, but I can get why she used that imaginery, and it works, it didn´t harm the sales. Al´s imaginery did, although I can´t imagine another cover photo for it now
promise to try Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 12 hours ago, strictmachine said: At the time she definitely spoke about the connection to Patti Hearst in the imagery, which would make sense in the context of the themes of the album as a sort of Stockholm syndrome related to buying into the illusions of fame and fortune. this could work as an explanation, at least for me. I didn´t remember her mentioning Patricia, great that she did, because most of the people around me thought about Che when it appeared.And, I don´t know if this is true, but some people say che was really homophobic...who knows
johndvd25 Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 Did anyone remember she considered the title “Hollywood” for the American Life album? I thought the imagery of the era would be like the W magaizine 2003 shoot because it was released few months before the release of the album. Then the iraq war escalated thus the sudden change of the imagery.
JWAD Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 On 1/21/2025 at 5:46 PM, Confessit said: And the worst styling (apart from the corset opening) The outfits were very fancy dress The worst styling was Madame X by far. Nothing will ever outdo Blond Ambition.
luluthecat Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 4 hours ago, promise to try said: this could work as an explanation, at least for me. I didn´t remember her mentioning Patricia, great that she did, because most of the people around me thought about Che when it appeared.And, I don´t know if this is true, but some people say che was really homophobic...who knows They did both Patricia Hearst and Che. The designers M/M (Paris) mention it in their book, they said they advised her to go for the Che cover as they felt the Patricia Hearst cover (the single cover) was too cliecé - but personally I'd have assumed the complete opposite as I'd never heard of Patricia Hearst until Madonna mentioned her.
Confessit II Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 1 hour ago, luluthecat said: They did both Patricia Hearst and Che. The designers M/M (Paris) mention it in their book, they said they advised her to go for the Che cover as they felt the Patricia Hearst cover (the single cover) was too cliecé - but personally I'd have assumed the complete opposite as I'd never heard of Patricia Hearst until Madonna mentioned her. I agree with this. The reference to Patricia Hearst is lost on most people. The general pubic and fans alike saw the AL cover as Che Guevara only. And to be honest, that’s exactly how it appears despite a reference to something else that’s what the public saw in the record shops in 2003. Nobody picked up the CD and thought about Patricia Hearst. Lets be realistic.
JWAD Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 3 hours ago, luluthecat said: They did both Patricia Hearst and Che. The designers M/M (Paris) mention it in their book, they said they advised her to go for the Che cover as they felt the Patricia Hearst cover (the single cover) was too cliecé - but personally I'd have assumed the complete opposite as I'd never heard of Patricia Hearst until Madonna mentioned her. There is no difference between the album and single cover, it's the same photography used? Why would the same image be the Che and Patty versions? I still cannot believe that she paid a small fortune for Craig McDean to do the photoshoot and then M/M put their treatment to it and it looked like a black and white photocopy. Don't get me wrong I love their work but AL was not their best. Their work with Bjork was amazing.
ThomasW Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 6 hours ago, johndvd25 said: Did anyone remember she considered the title “Hollywood” for the American Life album? I thought the imagery of the era would be like the W magaizine 2003 shoot because it was released few months before the release of the album. Then the iraq war escalated thus the sudden change of the imagery. I do recall that! things might've been sooo different...
bard Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 9 hours ago, promise to try said: Music is not country, but I can get why she used that imaginery, and it works, it didn´t harm the sales. Al´s imaginery did, although I can´t imagine another cover photo for it now the cover art didn't harm sales, the music (specifically the first single) did. but we're talking about whether the imagery connected with the music, and IMO they're equal.
Confessit II Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 5 minutes ago, bardo said: the cover art didn't harm sales, the music (specifically the first single) did. but we're talking about whether the imagery connected with the music, and IMO they're equal. I think Music has plenty of country, americano and western influence in some tracks. I totally get the imagery with the modern cowgirl look. The military look for AL was cool, it would have been fine had we not of gone to war and the backlash against Madonna for the video controversy. I don’t think the artwork directly affected sales but it certainly didn’t help entice people back to the album post lead-single for those people who were turned off by her anti war statement. Today, in retrospect it matters not, but it did in 2003.
bard Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 3 minutes ago, Confessit said: I think Music has plenty of country, americano and western influence in some tracks. I totally get the imagery with the modern cowgirl look. The military look for AL was cool, it would have been fine had we not of gone to war and the backlash against Madonna for the video controversy. I don’t think the artwork directly affected sales but it certainly didn’t help entice people back to the album post lead-single for those people who were turned off by her anti war statement. there isn't actually any "country" music on the album though - there's some folk and folktronica. i think both covers work great for the albums, and she's evoking a communist revolutionary on AL, which is largely a critique of capitalism (fame, money, the american dream, etc.). i honestly can't understand how anyone would not think it ties in perfectly to the lyrics on the album.
Confessit II Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 Just now, bardo said: there is any "country" music on the album though - there's some folk and folktronica. i think both covers work great for the albums, and she's evoking a communist revolutionary on AL, which is largely a critique of capitalism (fame, money, the american dream, etc.). i honestly can't understand how anyone would not think it ties in perfectly to the lyrics on the album. I agree but there is a modern country twist to some track such as DTM. It’s not straight up country whatsoever of course not, but it’s got a modern country vibe as you say it is folktronica. The imagery isn’t Dolly Parton it’s modern country which suits the albums vibe. The AL cover absolutely feeds into that capitalist theme she is exploring in the AL song. However, upon release that was largely lost due to the anti war statement in the video which over took anything else at that time becuase of the backlash. So the everyday buyer in the record shop saw the cover and linked it to the video statement, and it wasn’t capitalism they were thinking about. The ideology was lost due to the AL video.
Icykiller Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 12 minutes ago, Confessit said: I The AL cover absolutely feeds into that capitalist theme she is exploring in the AL song. Agreed. Patty Hearst makes sense as inspiration of an album for which the material girl rejects everything she stands for in the American consciousness. The stripped down folktronica, sometimes jarring and even demo-ish at times, also blends awesomely with the message. She fucking burned bridges there, very punk of her! But yeah, commercially it just didn't resonate.
peter Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 1 hour ago, JWAD said: I still cannot believe that she paid a small fortune for Craig McDean to do the photoshoot and then M/M put their treatment to it and it looked like a black and white photocopy. Don't get me wrong I love their work but AL was not their best. Their work with Bjork was amazing. On a previous page, someone asked about the cost of the shoot … and I was going to say something similar to your post in response. Yes, the McDean shoot was rumored to be very expensive… and then M|M would have been a separate expense. AND THEN they had to go back and airbrush out all the guns/weapons from the McDean shoot later — well after the publicity shots were out there and being published. It was … a bit of a mess/debacle. And kind of agree that the work M|M did with the raw material kind of feels like the photography was wasted.
strictmachine Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 For those who continue to not grasp just how much Patti Hearst was an inspiration for not just the artwork but her whole look throughout the promos tour…
strictmachine Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 5 hours ago, Confessit said: I agree with this. The reference to Patricia Hearst is lost on most people. The general pubic and fans alike saw the AL cover as Che Guevara only. And to be honest, that’s exactly how it appears despite a reference to something else that’s what the public saw in the record shops in 2003. Nobody picked up the CD and thought about Patricia Hearst. Lets be realistic. Many of Madonna’s references aren’t for most people.
Confessit II Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 28 minutes ago, strictmachine said: Many of Madonna’s references aren’t for most people. Agreed. But some are more obvious than others. The reference to Patti Hearst is on the lesser known side to the masses. This isn’t Material Girl and Marilyn Monroe
strictmachine Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 9 minutes ago, Confessit said: Agreed. But some are more obvious than others. The reference to Patti Hearst is on the lesser known side to the masses. This isn’t Material Girl and Marilyn Monroe Sorry but I disagree. Obviously it’s not Marilyn Monroe level known but that is an absolutely ICONIC image in journalism and the story of Patti Hearst is part of every first year psychology class. It is an incredibly well known and talked about event and I don’t believe that “the masses” are all sooooo much more familiar with Che Guevara.
dollhouse Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 3 hours ago, Confessit said: I agree but there is a modern country twist to some track such as DTM. It’s not straight up country whatsoever of course not, but it’s got a modern country vibe as you say it is folktronica. The imagery isn’t Dolly Parton it’s modern country which suits the albums vibe. The AL cover absolutely feeds into that capitalist theme she is exploring in the AL song. However, upon release that was largely lost due to the anti war statement in the video which over took anything else at that time becuase of the backlash. So the everyday buyer in the record shop saw the cover and linked it to the video statement, and it wasn’t capitalism they were thinking about. The ideology was lost due to the AL video. The video was pulled quick so hardly any even saw it and that was the upset I remember, most were shocked she didnt stand by it and put out that horrid flag video instead And that people didnt connect with the song and especially the rap was ridiculed I doubt the cover art drove people away in masses..there just wasnt big hits (curiously people in France really kept buying it regardless)
Confessit II Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 6 minutes ago, strictmachine said: Sorry but I disagree. Obviously it’s not Marilyn Monroe level known but that is an absolutely ICONIC image in journalism and the story of Patti Hearst is part of every first year psychology class. It is an incredibly well known and talked about event and I don’t believe that “the masses” are all sooooo much more familiar with Che Guevara. That’s fair enough. I think the cover was far more obviously a take on Che Guevara and most people who understand a bit of history will know exactly who he was. I just don’t feel the same at all about Patti Hearst. But I accept your points of her impact in history. Agree to disagree
jonski43 Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 On 1/26/2025 at 7:53 PM, dollhouse said: I think the album had a lot of social commentary dealing with materialism, fame, superficial, culture and such maybe some Kaballah flavour, love and family in the mix.. I think the war theme distracted from the album. If they'd focused on the Hollywood theme and the general social commentary, ditched American Life or reworked it, and found a stronger lead single, I think the album would have gone down better and been remembered better. The anti war theme seemed added at the last minute and doesn't really go with the song anyway.
ashtangi74 Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 Do you guys think they finished the recording process?
Je5u5 Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 17 hours ago, JWAD said: There is no difference between the album and single cover, it's the same photography used? Why would the same image be the Che and Patty versions? I still cannot believe that she paid a small fortune for Craig McDean to do the photoshoot and then M/M put their treatment to it and it looked like a black and white photocopy. Don't get me wrong I love their work but AL was not their best. Their work with Bjork was amazing. I guess they are talking about the single variants with the uncropped picture
ConfessYourself Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 I honestly don't care whether it tanked her career in the US or not. American Life, the vid, was such a huge statement. I was so proud of being a fan of that woman. It was such a fearless move.
dollhouse Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 The original video is among her very best video, it was so frustrating it was pulled and GP didnt see it..
zephyralexxx Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 4 hours ago, ashtangi74 said: Do you guys think they finished the recording process? I'm 100% not. Or maybe she finished her part and she is in searching for featurings.
Confessit II Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 5 hours ago, ashtangi74 said: Do you guys think they finished the recording process? I’m not sure. Here’s how I see it: She has flirted in and out of the studio going right back to pre-Celebration Tour (the image of her with Max Martin February 2023) and of course studio time with various artists for the Instagram remixes Since the tour wrapped in April last year, she has travelled around the world and made many personal appearances. She has been on the move That’s not to say work hasn’t been happening behind the scenes but she hasn’t spent months at a time in a studio. She announced new music with Stuart only last month, and again, after a few sessions she has been back out on the move Personally, I think she is still in early stages of putting an album together. I don’t think its finished, unless for the last 6 months there’s been some serious work happening in secret …..or she’s been recording music whilst on the road. I can’t see an album dropping until Autumn at the earliest
promise to try Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 On 1/27/2025 at 3:59 PM, Confessit said: I agree with this. The reference to Patricia Hearst is lost on most people. The general pubic and fans alike saw the AL cover as Che Guevara only. And to be honest, that’s exactly how it appears despite a reference to something else that’s what the public saw in the record shops in 2003. Nobody picked up the CD and thought about Patricia Hearst. Lets be realistic. I agree. And I don´t know about yu, but I didn´t know anything aboit her story. I mean, I remember being at the university, the teacher saying something about her, look in our faces that we didn´t know her, and saying "you are sooo young"!
Confessit II Posted January 28, 2025 Posted January 28, 2025 17 minutes ago, promise to try said: I agree. And I don´t know about yu, but I didn´t know anything aboit her story. I mean, I remember being at the university, the teacher saying something about her, look in our faces that we didn´t know her, and saying "you are sooo young"! I don’t know much about her either hun. It’s interesting learning about different peoples experiences and perceptions of references in Madonna’s work. But I look at it from my own personal point of view, the hardcore fans and the general public. Back in 2003 Madonna had the masses looking at her work. I think the Patrica reference was very little known to the masses but again, that’s based on my perspective/assumption.
Recommended Posts