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Madonna for New York Times Mag (Madonna NOT happy)


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8 minutes ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

Love M's reaction on her ig. Although the piece was well written for the most part, clearly M knows more from having talked with the writer for so long. I love how she pointed out the stupid remark about rape. That was so cringy. (BTW, the word "rape" meaning sexual abuse IS metaphorical, which the writer would know about just from opening a dictionary.)

 

Yep, that's probably it, we don't have all the facts to make an informed comment I guess, but Madonna is definitely giving away some very good hints

Regarding the use of the RAPE word the politically correctness brigade has struck again! One can use the word rape metaphorically as well, you'd think  .... But it probably eludes some people completely

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7 minutes ago, systemvalues said:

I don't understand the comparison with M'S album..however if you don't like  the rules that govern a system, you attack the ones who created them and the others who follow them.

A woman wrote the article, because many people believe women are still oppressed, that mean's they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions?

 

If that's the case then gays can act like assholes 24/7, we'll just blame the "patriarchy"

 

No accountability

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7 minutes ago, systemvalues said:

I don't understand the comparison with M'S album..however if you don't like  the rules that govern a system, you attack the ones who created them and the others who follow them.

 

I don't understand either

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Guest CzarnaWisnia
1 minute ago, Samo said:

A woman wrote the article, because many people believe women are still oppressed, that mean's they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions?

 

If that's the case then gays can act like assholes 24/7, we'll just blame the "patriarchy"

 

No accountability

Yes, the patriarchy remark made no sense at all.

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Just now, CzarnaWisnia said:

Yes, the patriarchy remark made no sense at all.

Thank you, somebody gets it

 

The Madonna of 20, even 10 years ago would of never posted that nonsense.  She would of taken it up with the writer woman to woman.

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Just now, Samo said:

A woman wrote the article, because many people believe women are still oppressed that mean they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions?

 

If that's the case then gays can act like assholes 24/7, we'll just blame the "patriarchy"

 

No accountability

 

You are confusing things

Regardless of whether the article was written by a woman or a man one could still make the case for categorising the publication in question, in this case the NYT, as an outlet expressing the attitude and views of the patriarchy. Which is clearly what Madonna thinks about it and highlighted in her IG assessment of the piece. From the title choice to what she thinks the writer chose to focus on rather than what was offered in the actual conversation or time they spent together as a whole

 

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6 minutes ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

Yes, the patriarchy remark made no sense at all.

Maybe its because the editorial line probably encouraged and directed the framing of the article to be about M’s age and its direct correlation to it being a woman.

i too wish she did not make a big deal about it- but 1. she has every right to speak up havent given this person access 2. She s fighting with this album. Using the rape analogy + referring to her awful experience brings media attention= attention to M’s new work she is releasing. She s been doing this for decades, she knows whats up.

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4 minutes ago, XXL said:

 

You are confusing things

Regardless of whether the article was written by a woman or a man one could still make the case for categorising the publication in question, in this case the NYT, as an outlet expressing the attitude and views of the patriarchy. Which is clearly what Madonna thinks about it and highlighted in her IG assessment of the piece. From the title choice to what she thinks the writer chose to focus on rather than what was offered in the actual conversation or time they spent together as a whole

 

It's an EXTREMELY liberal magazine, a woman wrote and filed the article and put in it EXACTLY what SHE wanted to say.  Madonna's beef is with the FEMALE writer

 

End of

 

 

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Mind you this is the same Madonna who whined in 1991 while making A League of Their Own that it was a huge mistake to do a movie with a predominantly female cast and director and that she would never make that mistake again and that she prefers to work on location with mostly men

 

And whom.when promoting Evita did a TV Interview in Spain and Madonna said "thank God, the woman isn't here, I didn't like the questions she asked me the last time you guys interviewed me". And the male interviewer apologized for the rude questions the woman asked presumably a few years prior while being interviewed for the show and Madonna responded "You don't have to apologize, SHE asked those questions".

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Samo said:

It's an EXTREMELY liberal magazine, a wan write and filled the article and put in it EXACTLY what SHE wanted to say.  Madonna's beef is with the FEMALE writer

 

End of

 

No

She's clearly telling you there's a history between her and the NYT in terms of confrontation. It has nothing to do with the writer being a woman. She's simply saying she's unsurprised that they as a publication chose to focus so much on her age (despite talking at length about how often she gets crap for it) and "other trivial things" rather than what was probably offered by Madonna in the encounters

And liberal is a loose word these days. The NYT just like the BBC (to name a parallel scenario) is one of those institutions that love to present narratives with a touch of "because I said so" attached to it .... That is the truth unfortunately and you see that with so many issues that plague the world and how they simplistically present them to the public

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Just now, XXL said:

 

No

She's clearly telling you there's a history between her and the NYT in terms of confrontation. It has nothing to do with the writer being a woman. She's simply saying she's unsurprised that they as a publication chose to focus so much on her age (despite talking at length about how often she gets crap for it) and "other trivial things" rather than what was probably offered by Madonna in the encounters

And liberal is a loose word these days. The NYT just like the BBC (to name a parallel scenario) is one of those institutions that love to present narratives with a touch of "because I said so" attached to it .... That is the truth unfortunately and you see that with so many issues that plague the world and how they simplistically present them to the public

We get it, you don't think women can inform opinions themselves or likes or dislikes, you don't see them as having their OWN opinion and own agenda

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1 minute ago, Samo said:

We get it, you don't think women can inform opinions themselves or likes or dislikes, you don't see them as having their OWN opinion and own agenda

 

What the hell are you talking about

That is not what I am saying at all!

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14 minutes ago, XXL said:

 

You are confusing things

Regardless of whether the article was written by a woman or a man one could still make the case for categorising the publication in question, in this case the NYT, as an outlet expressing the attitude and views of the patriarchy. Which is clearly what Madonna thinks about it and highlighted in her IG assessment of the piece. From the title choice to what she thinks the writer chose to focus on rather than what was offered in the actual conversation or time they spent together as a whole

 

I also majored in journalism, the NYT is very prestigious and the writer ALWAYS gets final say in how she wants her "piece" to come out, so it definitely focused on her age, but that was the FEMALE WRITER'S intent and angle all along

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5 minutes ago, Samo said:

Mind you this is the same Madonna who whined in 1991 while making A League of Their Own that it was a huge mistake to do a movie with a predominantly female cast and director and that she would never make that mistake again and that she prefers to work on location with mostly men

 

And whom.when promoting Evita did a TV Interview in Spain and Madonna said "thank God, the woman isn't here, I didn't like the questions she asked me the last time you guys interviewed me". And the male interviewer apologized for the rude questions the woman asked presumably a few years prior while being interviewed for the show and Madonna responded "You don't have to apologize, SHE asked those questions".

 

 

So M is misogynist?

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madonna thought female journalist was a dumb ass bitch, called her out, also blames the men who own the publication and for her catering to men ass.

makes sense to me.

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Just now, tuckeye said:

madonna thought female journalist was a dumb ass bitch, called her out, also blames the men who own the publication and for her catering to men ass.

makes sense to me.

+1

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1 minute ago, tuckeye said:

madonna thought female journalist was a dumb ass bitch, called her out, also blames the men who own the publication and for her catering to men ass.

makes sense to me.

You mean LIBERAL men, who've written tons of pro women stuff in their magazine and paper?

 

Again it's between Madonna and the journalist

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The title of the article MADONNA AT SIXTY is an insult if you are trying to highlight anything about Madonna other than her age. I bet that was enough to set her off. As if the only aspect of her worth attaching to the article was her age.

And yes, the use of the R word will was being used yesterday along with the "FLOP" (their words) album Rebel Heart in the headlines being used to discuss the article in the media. Now today they've created a new headline using her Instagram reference to the R word. 

I know much of the consensus here is that she somehow was lax with security and so kind of deserved to have an entire library of demos and final album stolen and leaked months in advance of release. I have always shied away from the demos and felt that the absolute horror she must have experienced at this happening was somehow diminished. I can't imagine how awful it was and she confirmed it again in the interview...going as far to say it made her not want to make music. I bet it still fucking stings.

 

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I feel that  Madonna may have felt a genuine connection with this woman, allowing her access to her most private inner thoughts and feeling confident throughout (whether through a written agreement or through verbal assertations) that the writer would portray a story worthy of the answers Madonna gave. 

In Madonna's opinion that clearly was not the case.

@Samo

Can you say with 100% surety that the woman wasn't asked to change certain aspects of the article by her editor or boss? Aspects that Madonna was sure would be included.

 

 

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She said "death to the patriarchy woven deep into the fabric of society"............I don't want to say she's letting the journalist off the hook with that comment but in a way that tells me that to her the "issue" goes DEEP and she's fully aware that this woman is most likely a "victim" of sorts to patriarchy.....as many are.....as Madonna herself has been (her Weinstein comments are telling in that regard). I agree with @rekha, I'm getting the vibe that basically her feelings are hurt. It does seem like she may have had a genuine connection with this person. There's a lot of disappointment in the words of her IG post.

Also, people REALLY need to get off her (and everyone else's) back for using metaphors. I'm glad she refuses to dumb herself down. Also, the Madonna of yester-year may not have flat out said something like this straight out in an interview or anything because she would've had time to think about things before making a statement. Madonna is human just like the rest of us though.....so having that phone right there when you're pissed off and want to vent can be tempting and many of us will succumb to that from time time......I know there are many of us here that should be able to relate to that to some degree! :lol:

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28 minutes ago, Samo said:

I also majored in journalism, the NYT is very prestigious and the writer ALWAYS gets final say in how she wants her "piece" to come out, so it definitely focused on her age, but that was the FEMALE WRITER'S intent and angle all along

 

Sweetie, maybe a little less naivety would do you good. I know very well what the NYT represents in media circles. Even if I didn't major in journalism. As a reader and an audience member one can express an opinion on anything. You don't need a qualification to express a feeling or your own personal views on something

And Madonna is not complaining about men in general rather than addressing the writer who in this case is a woman, as you seem to suggest, she's hinting at the entire publication being an expression of the patriarchy given the the editorial choices they made with the content they had at hand.

She's allowed to hold this view and say it if she wants to. We don't know what they talked about in those conversations anyway

Regarding the NYT, Herald Tribune in its overseas edition, now called the International NYT, undoubtedly prestigious. But that doesn't mean they can't lie or mislead and have done so in the past.

There have been other pieces from them in the recent past about Madonna where they have been less than raving about her. The current editorial choices probably reinforced in Madonna what was already bubbling under for a while and she laid it all out

And remember that prestigious publications can lie too, it's not just the tabloid press

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39 minutes ago, Samo said:

Mind you this is the same Madonna who whined in 1991 while making A League of Their Own that it was a huge mistake to do a movie with a predominantly female cast and director and that she would never make that mistake again and that she prefers to work on location with mostly men

 

And whom.when promoting Evita did a TV Interview in Spain and Madonna said "thank God, the woman isn't here, I didn't like the questions she asked me the last time you guys interviewed me". And the male interviewer apologized for the rude questions the woman asked presumably a few years prior while being interviewed for the show and Madonna responded "You don't have to apologize, SHE asked those questions".

 

Are you for real?

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The first time I read the article I thought it was an op-ed piece that was written from the perspective of an older women who clearly admires Madonna and grew up with her music like most of us did. So I was shocked to hear her reacting to it in just a negative way. Yes, they could have picked a better title (I thought there were way too many "Madonna at 60" last year around her birthday already).  But was it just me or that M has skirted the aging question too many a times and should just own it? We all are aging and wanted to feel connected to another human being's experience whether you are an icon or not, so I get why the journalist wanted to ask those questions. M should be very proud that after 35+ years she still has solid base of die hard fans who would pay half their salary to see her.  That is what being an icon at 60 is about.  

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Isn’t Madonna’s point that many of her most fervent detractors have been female precisely because women have been conditioned to serve the patriarchy? Obviously this is a generalized perspective, and there are plenty of women who, like Madonna, have taken it upon themselves to challenge that system, but there are also many women who do not support other women because they have been disenfranchised and disempowered through patriarchal education systems, media representation, ease of societal conformism...It shouldn’t be such an indictment on either side of the argument, and I think the more I observe the situation and how it is being viewed, the more I am inclined to feel that Madonna would have perhaps benefited from using a publicist to funnel her rebuttal more succinctly and with more of the ingredients she was expecting from the journalist. However, I feel Madonna is rarely given room to show cracks in her veneer, which is why she appears caustic and thin-skinned in her choices to address these matters more recently. She obviously feels her identity is easily misconstrued and misrepresented by women due to the very restrictions she feels she has fought to liberate herself from, and we must assume this comes from her experience. I think it’s safe to assume she’s not mindlessly paranoid...she deserves more compassion than she will get from the general public, and also from some of her fans from what I am reading. It’s an interesting topic, and there are lots of opinions that are in my humble personal experience reinstating my faith in the power of forums and a fan base to give greater context to Madonna as a vibrant cultural figure.  

That said, holding her accountable for what she said or did in 1991 or 1996 is a little too easy. Everyone evolves, and if there’s anything we should retain from Madonna’s expression of personal opinion it’s that she retains the right to change her mind. 

 

Edited by Herfaceremains
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Madonna is lashing out at the world, not the New York Times. Otherwise, why would she grant an in-depth editorial to a newspaper she feels is a founding father of the patriarchy?

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42 minutes ago, Samo said:

Mind you this is the same Madonna who whined in 1991 while making A League of Their Own that it was a huge mistake to do a movie with a predominantly female cast and director and that she would never make that mistake again and that she prefers to work on location with mostly men

 

And whom.when promoting Evita did a TV Interview in Spain and Madonna said "thank God, the woman isn't here, I didn't like the questions she asked me the last time you guys interviewed me". And the male interviewer apologized for the rude questions the woman asked presumably a few years prior while being interviewed for the show and Madonna responded "You don't have to apologize, SHE asked those questions".

 

 

There are plenty of other people in the entertainment world out there that you can follow, since clearly you and your own head have major issues against Madonna.

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