2016 Presidential Election Thread Part 2

[Guest]

Many Bernie supporters have implied and said her Iraq War vote alone would make her foreign policy chops questionable. Just repeating what I've read/heard/seen.

Listen you damn fool, if you're putting words in my mouth I will wipe your mussy all over Times Square you hear?

I'm not talking about you, for fucks sake. I wasn't talking about anyone on this forum.

:dead:

[ULIZOS]

Why is that funny?

"Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility"

That's exactly what those comments are.

X supporter: Y supporters are stupid.

Y supporter: Excuse me?

X supporter: I wasn't talking about you, stupid! Did I say your name?

You guys are fucking annoying. That's a result of this new bullshit PC world we live in. You say the same shit you used to say, only that you're all a bunch of pussy passive aggressive cowards when you say your little shit.

[Guest]

Why is that funny?

"Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility"

That's exactly what those comments are.

X supporter: Y supporters are stupid.

Y supporter: Excuse me?

X supporter: I wasn't talking about you, stupid! Did I say your name?

You guys are fucking annoying. That's a result of this new bullshit PC world we live in. You say the same shit you used to say, only that you're all a bunch of pussy passive aggressive cowards when you say your little shit.

It's funny because Gaybraham is being his usual troll self which PaulaAbdul obviously was unaware of resulting in funny statement. You really have become hugely oversensitive. Where's your sense of humour gone? It's strange because you were always somebody on this forum who could poke fun without being mean. What happened to you?

[Skin]

It's hitting me more and more how sad I am going to be to see the Obama's leave the White House.

I am going to go into a funk even if a Dem replaces them.

The one thing that will sicken me to no end is if a republican wins and the day of the inauguration the former President always has to be there.....I swear all the people that come to see Trump, or Cruz, or Rubio, get sworn in are going to boo and curse the living hell out of Obama when he walks out, and that man does NOT deserve that. He had to put up with enough over the top hate from republicans before he was even sworn in. I am want the man to go out looking out a large crowd of people cheering him.

Bush had the living shit booed out of him by 2 million people was it? But he deserved it!

[XXL]

Let me do the worrying. Is that a deal?

New Hillary Ad

[XXL]

I had no idea Hillary was sympathetic to Henry Kissinger's foreign policy "ideas"

My bad, now I better understand how she might have gotten the lying rep! I love Bernie Sanders here, he may be older but he spoke nothing but the truth here. Why would Hilary take advice from a man who commissioned so much murder and intrigue between the 70s and 80s all over the world?

Last but not least, the destabilisation of the entire North African region, Egypt in particular, achieved also through the commissioned kidnapping and murder of Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro in 1978, executed by left wing extremist Italian terrorist squad.

Not to mention the man who together with a certain Mr Brezinsky single handedly proceeded to arm Al Qaeda between the 70s and 80s

[Littlebastard]

Go Hillary!

She's winning SC this saturday! Woohoo!

[Skin]

Well a poll came out today that said Trump is negatively viewed by 59% of Americans, and something like only 32% have a positive view of him.....

Which kind of sits with the theory I mentioned awhile ago, that a third of this country is crazy as hell, because whenever there is a poll on so many issues and you can give the sane answer or the crazy answer it seems like about a third of the country always picks the insane answer.

[Bellenger1981]

I had no idea Hillary was sympathetic to Henry Kissinger's foreign policy "ideas"

My bad, now I better understand how she might have gotten the lying rep! I love Bernie Sanders here, he may be older but he spoke nothing but the truth here. Why would Hilary take advice from a man who commissioned so much murder and intrigue between the 70s and 80s all over the world?

Key point: Hillary has foreign policy experience, and Bernie has none. That's all that matters! Go $Hillary! Go win South Carolina! Woohoo!

[Nightshade]

I had no idea Hillary was sympathetic to Henry Kissinger's foreign policy "ideas"

My bad, now I better understand how she might have gotten the lying rep! I love Bernie Sanders here, he may be older but he spoke nothing but the truth here. Why would Hilary take advice from a man who commissioned so much murder and intrigue between the 70s and 80s all over the world?

Last but not least, the destabilisation of the entire North African region, Egypt in particular, achieved also through the commissioned kidnapping and murder of Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro in 1978, executed by left wing extremist Italian terrorist squad.

Not to mention the man who together with a certain Mr Brezinsky single handedly proceeded to arm Al Qaeda between the 70s and 80s

I don't recall her saying anywhere in that debate that she agree with everything he did. She did say he brought useful information on China. She also said she doesn't discount expertise that someone may have in other areas even if she disagrees with them in certain situations. I think that's actually the wise answer. People paint with a very broad brush these days. Why would you discount advice from someone who actually had success with one country if they fucked up in another? Wouldn't you want to piece together the U.S. foreign policies successes no matter who they came from?

[Guest]

I don't recall her saying anywhere in that debate that she agree with everything he did. She did say he brought useful information on China. She also said she doesn't discount expertise that someone may have in other areas even if she disagrees with them in certain situations. I think that's actually the wise answer. People paint with a very broad brush these days. Why would you discount advice from someone who actually had success with one country if they fucked up in another? Wouldn't you want to piece together the U.S. foreign policies successes no matter who they came from?

That's what I like about Hilarity. I feel like she is somewhat centred compared to her competitors. She doesn't seem to be stirring the pot to rally reactions from people in the way that the more extremist politicians do. I think in a time like this that's what America really needs. It's time for America to be looked at as a wonderful place again.

[elayman]

I basically agree with this analysis, although if he does end up winning Sanders will be seen as smart for waiting out the legal process in the meantime benefiting from Trump's attacks on Clinton without getting into the mud with either one.

Commentary:

Sanders is blowing it by refusing to attack Clinton over her scandals

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-bernie-sanders-not-attacking-hillary-clinton-emails-scandals-20160222-story.html

His failure to do so cost him victory in Iowa. It cost him victory in Nevada. And ultimately, it could cost him the Democratic nomination.

In the one state where Sanders has won — New Hampshire — exit polls showed 34 percent of Democratic voters said that honesty was the most important factor in their decision about whom to support. These voters chose Sanders by a stunning margin of 92 percent to 6 percent, helping put him over the top in the Granite State. By contrast, Clinton won by a wide margin among those who said the ability to win in November was the most important factor. But these voters made up just 12 percent of the electorate, not enough to make up for Clinton's gaping honesty gap.

In Iowa and Nevada, however, a larger segment of Democratic voters put electability ahead of honesty. In Iowa, 20 percent said electability was their top priority and they chose Clinton by a margin of 77 percent to 17 percent. In Nevada, even more Democrats — 25 percent — said electability was most important, and Clinton won them by a whopping 82 percent to 12 percent. She still lost to Sanders among Democrats who put a premium on honesty, but there were not enough of these voters to give Sanders a victory.

The lesson of the first three Democratic contests, therefore, should be clear: Clinton's weakness is honesty, but her strength is her perceived advantage in electability. Knowing this, what must Sanders do to wrest the nomination from Clinton? Simple. He needs to exploit her weakness and undermine her strength — by putting a dent in Clinton's perceived electability. The only way to do that is by raising the specter that Clinton's legal woes could cost Democrats the White House in November.

Fox News recently reported that the FBI is investigating not just Clinton's use of a private email server, but also “whether the possible ‘intersection’ of Clinton Foundation work and State Department business may have violated public corruption laws.” And The Washington Post has reported that the State Department inspector general had issued a subpoena “seeking documents about the charity's projects that may have required approval from the federal government during Hillary Clinton's term as secretary of state,” including records related to Clinton's top aide, Huma Abedin, who “was employed simultaneously by the State Department, the foundation, Clinton's personal office, and a private consulting firm with ties to the Clintons.”

Sanders should make this an issue. The very raison d’etre of Sanders' campaign is to challenge the Wall Street special interests and the pay-to-play culture in Washington.

Sanders does not have to join the Republican critics and say Clinton did anything illegal. He simply has to explain to voters that she has a major legal problem that could come back to haunt Democrats in November. All he has to say is: “If Clinton is the Democratic nominee and she ends up under indictment, the result will be a right-wing extremist in the White House.”

Sanders has won the hearts of the Democratic base, but he has to win their minds, too. Democrats already believe that he shares their values and would be a more reliable liberal in office. But they think that Clinton has a better chance of winning. He needs to disabuse them of this notion, by raising the very real possibility that voting for Clinton might lead to a Democratic disaster in November.

Thus far, Sanders has refused to do so. Amazingly, the issue of Clinton's possible wrongdoing did not even come up in the last Democratic presidential debate. Can anyone imagine that if Donald Trump, Sen. Ted Cruz or Sen. Marco Rubio were having their actions investigated by the FBI they could get through a two-hour debate without either the moderators or their opponents raising the subject?

Sanders has said he will not “politicize” the investigations. That is a mistake. If a majority of Democrats believe that Clinton is dishonest but electable, she will win. But if they can be convinced she is both dishonest and unelectable, she is toast.

[Skin]

That's not Sander's style though. He said he has never run a negative campaign and he isn't about to start now by taking low blows at fake scandals.

I would lose respect for him if he did do that. He is running with class, and if he loses he will lose with class. If anything in many ways he has already won by forcing Clinton to the left on many issues which the left will without a doubt hold her accountable on in the future.

[dollhouse]

i think us democrats are backstabbing themselves with this Sanders shit...hes old as fuck and totally unsuitable for president and would lose even for Trump.

[PaulaAbdul]

Please leave Huma OUT of this. Outrageous. I'm offended.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

It's hitting me more and more how sad I am going to be to see the Obama's leave the White House.

I am going to go into a funk even if a Dem replaces them.

The one thing that will sicken me to no end is if a republican wins and the day of the inauguration the former President always has to be there.....I swear all the people that come to see Trump, or Cruz, or Rubio, get sworn in are going to boo and curse the living hell out of Obama when he walks out, and that man does NOT deserve that. He had to put up with enough over the top hate from republicans before he was even sworn in. I am want the man to go out looking out a large crowd of people cheering him.

Bush had the living shit booed out of him by 2 million people was it? But he deserved it!

What exactly do you miss? The continued war in the middle east that obama said he would end?

The failed possibilities? The Change that never occurred in 8 years? The HOPE-less-ness of it all?

[elayman]

i think us democrats are backstabbing themselves with this Sanders shit...hes old as fuck and totally unsuitable for president and would lose even for Trump.

If Bernie's campaign isn't fraudulent, then it certainly is foolish. No one who is serious about successfully bringing about a revolution of honesty and ethics would be rolling over for Hillary as he is doing on an almost daily basis. It's one thing to dredge up the ancient past, as he has even down with Bill Clinton's philandering charges, it's quite another to excuse an extremely serious ongoing corruption probe in your opponent and her aides.

[XXL]

Obama put a bunch of Wall Street guys in power as soon as he arrived in 2008. The same Wall Street crowd that engineered the 2008 meltdown. As for him being awarded a Nobel Peace Prize 9 months into his first term, don't get me started

He did nothing for peace globally, he was a servant of the powers that be from day one, just like any political candidate has to be, left or right, United States or anywhere else in the world

He, Kerry and Clinton allowed to let the Syrian situation spiral out of control for 5 years, then meddled between Russia and Ukraine with the complicity of the EU and, a couple of years before, took down Gaddafi which resulted in the pandemonium that's going on all over Africa, the Middle East and Europe right now.

However, that doesn't mean that Trump is suitable to be the next US President, you don't govern a nation and such an important, prominent one with jokes. Meanwhile, I'm waiting for the next dinner picture to surface, that will be the next war to export democracy some point down the line

[XXL]

I don't recall her saying anywhere in that debate that she agree with everything he did. She did say he brought useful information on China. She also said she doesn't discount expertise that someone may have in other areas even if she disagrees with them in certain situations. I think that's actually the wise answer. People paint with a very broad brush these days. Why would you discount advice from someone who actually had success with one country if they fucked up in another? Wouldn't you want to piece together the U.S. foreign policies successes no matter who they came from?

The problem with American foreign policies of the past 40 years is that they have all been a failure no matter which government was in power, in terms how far the rest of the world has been advancing or unravelling. One thing is to "listen to people who have experience and knowledge" another is to show signs throughout your political history of wanting to perpetrate the bad choices.

He seems to be genuine about this particular issue whereas her only remark is "people wonder who you listen to". There seems to be some sort of opposition to the notion that Hillary might ever become president considering everything from 2007 till now, among her own party too. But that shouldn't be the only parameter upon which to judge the worth of a potential future President

Why has this US Security issue "become" so important? They keep touting that forever while the US government and the NSA continue to impose a permament state of unrest and militarisation all over the world, together with the EU, NATO, Israel and the UN of course.

Why filling the audience ears day in day out with the constant "you are under threat, we're here to protect you" rethoric while single-handedly creating themselves the conditions for the global powder keg to go off? That happens in Europe as well of course, I'm not saying the contrary but people in the US tend for some reason to take all of that rethoric a little more literally/blindly.

And in this sense Hillary's approach is in line with most of her predecessors, Democrats or otherwise.

[ULIZOS]

What exactly do you miss? The continued war in the middle east that obama said he would end?

The failed possibilities? The Change that never occurred in 8 years? The HOPE-less-ness of it all?

I really don't get it, Pud.

[ULIZOS]

Obama put a bunch of Wall Street guys in power as soon as he arrived in 2008. The same Wall Street crowd that engineered the 2008 meltdown. As for him being awarded a Nobel Peace Prize 9 months into his first term, don't get me started

He did nothing for peace globally, he was a servant of the powers that be from day one, just like any political candidate has to be, left or right, United States or anywhere else in the world

He, Kerry and Clinton allowed to let the Syrian situation spiral out of control for 5 years, then meddled between Russia and Ukraine with the complicity of the EU and, a couple of years before, took down Gaddafi which resulted in the pandemonium that's going on all over Africa, the Middle East and Europe right now.

However, that doesn't mean that Trump is suitable to be the next US President, you don't govern a nation and such an important, prominent one with jokes. Meanwhile, I'm waiting for the next dinner picture to surface, that will be the next war to export democracy some point down the line

Oh, and guess what, ASSAD IS STILL IN POWER AND MORE POWERFUL THAN EVER BEFORE

[Littlebastard]

i think us democrats are backstabbing themselves with this Sanders shit...hes old as fuck and totally unsuitable for president and would lose even for Trump.

YES YES YES

[ULIZOS]

i think us democrats are backstabbing themselves with this Sanders shit...hes old as fuck and totally unsuitable for president and would lose even for Trump.

There we go! There's the vitriolic language I keep hearing that people in this thread keep pretending doesn't exist in the Hillary camp

[XXL]

Key point: Hillary has foreign policy experience, and Bernie has none. That's all that matters

No it isn't ALL that matters

it depends also on how you use that knowledge and experience

She's got the knowledge allright, plenty of it

Even stuff she doesn't/can't/won't say

[elayman]

Please leave Huma OUT of this. Outrageous. I'm offended.

I don't even know what to say anymore....get used to it ???

U.S. judge orders discovery to go forward over Clinton’s private email system

A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that State Department officials and top aides to Hillary Clinton should be questioned under oath about whether they intentionally thwarted federal open records laws by using or allowing the use of a private email server throughout Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Emmet G. Sullivan of Washington came in a lawsuit over public records brought by Judicial Watch, a conservative legal watchdog group, regarding its May 2013 request for information about the employment arrangement of Huma Abedin, a longtime Clinton aide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/us-judge-weighs-deeper-probe-into-clintons-private-email-system/2016/02/23/9c27412a-d997-11e5-81ae-7491b9b9e7df_story.html

[Nightshade]

I don't even know what to say anymore....get used to it ???

U.S. judge orders discovery to go forward over Clinton’s private email system

A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that State Department officials and top aides to Hillary Clinton should be questioned under oath about whether they intentionally thwarted federal open records laws by using or allowing the use of a private email server throughout Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Emmet G. Sullivan of Washington came in a lawsuit over public records brought by Judicial Watch, a conservative legal watchdog group, regarding its May 2013 request for information about the employment arrangement of Huma Abedin, a longtime Clinton aide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/us-judge-weighs-deeper-probe-into-clintons-private-email-system/2016/02/23/9c27412a-d997-11e5-81ae-7491b9b9e7df_story.html

[Moka]

U.S. judge orders discovery to go forward over Clinton’s private email system

What is the problem with you, seriously? You never post on Madonna threads, you're only on this thread and you post only to attack Hillary. Is that your job? Do you work for a republican Super PAC targeting gays?

[XXL]

Oh, and guess what, ASSAD IS STILL IN POWER AND MORE POWERFUL THAN EVER BEFORE

They let things drag on forever, then waited for Russia to intervene so that they'd have the excuse to give it another poke. Meanwhile ISIS/daesh whatever gets funded by Saudi Arabia and Western Intelligence agencies. The joke and game of illusions is endless

But hey, they "got Bin Laden" and took down Gaddafi through France and Italy! Even though the Gaddafi scumbag was given the highest military honours and hero's welcome months before he was killed. I guess all these people are more or less scumbags depending on the convenience of the moment

Talk about madness

What amazes me is that a lot of people still believe what's been going on in the world since 2001 would have anything to do with a clash of cultures or religions. The extremists are there for sure but are fed and brainwashed by the same power groups that ask people all over the world to entrust their "security" to them so that they have the excuse and mandate to basically take over the entire planet

[Nightshade]

The problem with American foreign policies of the past 40 years is that they have all been a failure no matter which government was in power, in terms how far the rest of the world has been advancing or unravelling. One thing is to "listen to people who have experience and knowledge" another is to show signs throughout your political history of wanting to perpetrate the bad choices.

That is not true. The U.S. was instrumental in brokering a peace treaty between Israel and Jordan, and it took the lead in ending the Bosnian War. The PEPFAR program helped slow the growth of AIDS in Africa, and the United States also conducted effective humanitarian relief efforts in Indonesia, Haiti, and Pakistan, among others. Obama's administration secured a solid nuclear agreement with Iran (not perfect but certainly progress). We've also re-established ties with Cuba after years of the cold shoulder.

I realize our blunders have been significant, but the U.S. not a complete loser on foreign policy. How many foreign policies successes has the rest of the world had? Please show me a nation that's taking the lead and doing more successfully (or spending more)?

[Skin]

What exactly do you miss? The continued war in the middle east that obama said he would end?

The failed possibilities? The Change that never occurred in 8 years? The HOPE-less-ness of it all?

It's not even worth it to go into it. People that hate him will hate him. People that love him will love him. He was never meant to be the 2nd coming of Christ. No President is every going to be perfect on every single issue.