Shane Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I think people are taking things the wrong way when some people don't love a song that may have sexual lyrics. It often has to do with not liking the melody as in my case. It does not mean they don't love or appreciate her rebellious or sexual side. I love all sides of her but don't love every song she records - although love near enough to all of them. People are over-thinking things too much and seem to almost be accusing people of thoughts they are not having. Good points! And somehow the fact that this album is receiving mostly positive reviews across the board is not being celebrated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yes! I am so glad critics are starting to pick up on her voice evoking the late great Karen Carpenter. I always thought her rich lower register in particular has that quality. Great review! Yes, have always thought she has the same quality - apart from the clear and lush vocals - also with the pure and true emotion she sings with. One day, people will look back who said Madonna could not sing and realize just how wrong they have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glindathegood Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yes, have always thought she has the same quality - apart from the clear and lush vocals - also with the pure and true emotion she sings with. One day, people will look back who said Madonna could not sing and realize just how wrong they have been. I totally agree. People are too influenced by those type of American Idol competition shows. They think to be a good singer you have to be screaming. But her vocals are wonderful as you said, clear, lush and full of emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpb4uthink Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The critis and we, the fans as well, goes to show that everyone's taste in music is different. After reading these reviews and comparing them to her fans on different forums, some interpret and relate toward the Rebel and some to the Heart. I honestly think the album's diversity is its strength. We all feel and live different emotions as does the human Goddess who is Madonna. Metacritic is now at 68 and moving up. I hope it surpasses 70 because I want to believe that the critic in all of us is sincere and respectful of her obvious passionate creativity, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollap Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well, let me see if I can explain. You have to remember that for those of us who were fans from the very beginning, there were ten years--from "Everybody" in 1982 up until Erotica in 1992"--when she didn't release a single song containing expletives or truly explicit sexual language. Yes, there was "Like a Virgin," but saying that you feel "like a virgin" as a way of talking about a new relationship is hardly sexually explicit, in my opinion, especially when compared to the lyrics of songs like "S.E.X." or "Holy Water." Indeed, no album or song of hers had a parental advisory warning up until Erotica, which was, again, ten years after her first release. I'm not saying that none of her fans--or even many of her fans--from the very beginning object to expletives or sexually explicit language, just that such things were simply not an element of her music for a very long time and therefore not a quintessential part of her music for a very long time. By the way, I love "Express Yourself," which of course contains neither expletives nor sexually explicit language, unless your consider talk of "satin sheets" or "bed" to be sexually explicit, which I do not. Well put! I personally don't feel that Madonna swearing or talking about cunnilingus is 'rebellious' or 'cool'. I personally don't like vulgar songs. It's like been there done that M, please move on. I loved Erotica (song) and JML because they were sonically interesting and arty but crude references like in Where Life Begins, I just think it's beneath her. I define her 'rebelliousness' as when she has something interesting to say or an interesting angle at viewing something, not when she says a rude word because quite frankly anyone can do that it doesn't require talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I love Madonna because she shows sides of herself that most people wouldn't dare. She opens herself up to criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 By complaining about a certain aspect of Madonna, people are proving the point she has made in multiple interviews including the recent one in RS: people can't handle a person being more than one thing, they need to label you as this or that, an artist OR a businesswoman; a rebel OR a heart. How can she go from a song about sex to a song about love to a song about saving the world? Because ALL of those parts make up her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yes! I am so glad critics are starting to pick up on her voice evoking the late great Karen Carpenter. I always thought her rich lower register in particular has that quality. Great review! Coincidentally, Madonna once said how much she loved Karen Carpenter's voice, describing it as 'pure'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelvvv Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yes, have always thought she has the same quality - apart from the clear and lush vocals - also with the pure and true emotion she sings with. One day, people will look back who said Madonna could not sing and realize just how wrong they have been. To be honest, I think this is a rare era since ROL that her voice has shown up in such lush and unaltered quality on an album, also because we've heard them in their raw and natural form in the demos. This is why most of the public thinks she can't sing, even the ones who watch her tour DVDs and blu-rays. She does herself no favors by dubbing over the live tracks, making them sound obviously lip-synced, when that was not the case in concert. I remember being totally blown away the first time I saw her live, like this woman can SING. You rarely hear her rich, lower registers on the albums. Just look at the unnaturally high-pitched album version of Love Spent. Sometimes it's hard to tell on the past albums which was her real voice and which songs were pitched to sound more girly and younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loowee Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well put! I personally don't feel that Madonna swearing or talking about cunnilingus is 'rebellious' or 'cool'. I personally don't like vulgar songs. It's like been there done that M, please move on. I loved Erotica (song) and JML because they were sonically interesting and arty but crude references like in Where Life Begins, I just think it's beneath her. I define her 'rebelliousness' as when she has something interesting to say or an interesting angle at viewing something, not when she says a rude word because quite frankly anyone can do that it doesn't require talent. This is the first time Madonna doing such explicitly vulgar music. You probably are not familiar with her discography. And no, you don't define HER rebelliousness. She has said more than once that her rebel side is being a tongue and cheek renegade who fucks with people's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I highly recommend that you all listen to the 20 minute podcast of New York Times' Jon Pareles and Ben Ratliff (who sounds like a hot fuck) discuss the album. It's amazing. They get into a little debate about her vocals, they discuss her ability to write terrific hooks. It's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpb4uthink Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ^ please is there a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ^ please is there a link? Oops sorry yes https://player.fm/series/music-popcast/madonna-is-still-madonna-on-rebel-heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpb4uthink Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ^ thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpb4uthink Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So if NME would have given it a higher score than 50, Metacritic score for RH would be above 70 at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacho Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 This is the first time Madonna doing such explicitly vulgar music. You probably are not familiar with her discography. And no, you don't define HER rebelliousness. She has said more than once that her rebel side is being a tongue and cheek renegade who fucks with people's mind. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frzndrwnwrld Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 YES!!! Thank you!!! That's the thing - nobody is saying critics HAVE to like these songs. If they hate it, so be it. But why dismiss the whole album as "juvenile" or "embarassing" and drag it down just because of these THREE songs? They're acting like Rebel Heart is full of sex-me-up and party songs, yet the huge majority of the songs deal with entirely different topics. It reminds me of the American Life reviews. They only focused on the title track, saying the album was about all the things she has and wanting you to feel sorry for her. When in fact, it was an album of mostly love songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrolla Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I know, I still hear how AL was some anti war, anti American album. Of course, she didn't help matters with the video, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frzndrwnwrld Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well put! I personally don't feel that Madonna swearing or talking about cunnilingus is 'rebellious' or 'cool'. I personally don't like vulgar songs. It's like been there done that M, please move on. I loved Erotica (song) and JML because they were sonically interesting and arty but crude references like in Where Life Begins, I just think it's beneath her. I define her 'rebelliousness' as when she has something interesting to say or an interesting angle at viewing something, not when she says a rude word because quite frankly anyone can do that it doesn't require talent. I agree. I don't see how vulgarity equates being fun or cool. Nothing against Madonna personally, but I have no interest in hearing about her vaginal secretions. And I agree with the "been there, done that" feeling. I'm not saying she shouldn't do it or that others can't like it. There are thoses of use who love Madonna, but don't like certain songs for various reasons. It seems all or nothing on here. Life doesn't work that way, so why should Madonna's discography? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loowee Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I agree. I don't see how vulgarity equates being fun or cool. Nothing against Madonna personally, but I have no interest in hearing about her vaginal secretions. And I agree with the "been there, done that" feeling. I'm not saying she shouldn't do it or that others can't like it. There are thoses of use who love Madonna, but don't like certain songs for various reasons. It seems all or nothing on here. Life doesn't work that way, so why should Madonna's discography? Show me the receipts of her old music with similar lyrical content. Even Erotica isn't even close to the explicitness of the rebel songs. This is the FIRST time EVER Madonna is going all the way vulgar with her music and the result is refreshing and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaguy27 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Show me the receipts of her old music with similar lyrical content. Even Erotica isn't even close to the explicitness of the rebel songs. This is the FIRST time EVER Madonna is going all the way vulgar with her music and the result is refreshing and fun. Madonna had songs on Erotica about being eaten out and compared it to KFC chicken being "finger lick in good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Even with these "vulgar" (which is really just 2 songs, Holy Water and S.E.X.) I feel like she's just being campy and weird, almost like a drag performance. It's not like she's making a Janet Jackson sex song. You could ALWAYS tell that woman was TRULY trying to make music for people to feel aroused by, and it was just a fail. On every level. *waterfall noise* ​mmmmm fuckkkkk…. *soft harp* *wind chimes* yeah babiiii….. *blowjob sound* *gentle synths* NO…NOT YETEH…. uhhhh!!!! YEZZZ…. UGHHH!!!! ​Mmmm… moist…. you make me so moist I mean really?! (actual quotes from what I remember) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katypatra Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Lol this thread. Gays talking about eating pussy! Madonna succeeded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VogueMusic Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Wait...people are actually debating "vulgarity" in Madonna's music? WTF??? Also, seems like most of the reviews (while positive) still don't get Madonna's rebellious side. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it's getting mostly positive reviews...but kind of not surprised that the "heart" side is getting more praise than the "rebel" side (though ironically it seems most of the reviewers don't get the duality of the album concept). Vulnerable, sensitive, romantic Madonna they get... tongue in cheek, rebellious, sexual Madonna they still don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I think Madonna generally receives consistent reviews, some of them smarter and deeper than others. On the one hand, she is rarely awarded five stars (even LAP and ROL were a lot of four's); on the other hand, she's never had an outright critical flop, which is extremely impressive. The two that come closest to the latter category, Erotica and AL, each received a handful of positive reviews when they came out, and hindsight has them portrayed in a better light by most critics. Notable critics who love Madonna or at least tend to like and respect her include Ann Powers, Greg Kot, Jim Farber, Joe Levy, Elysa Gardner, Rob Sheffield, Dave Marsh, Barbara O'Dair, Jon Pareles, Ben Ratliff, and Lucy O'Brien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvat Jens Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Lol this thread. Gays talking about eating pussy! Madonna succeeded! Have to admit that my first thought when hearing the song was, wtf do not want to listen to a song about pussy juice but in general I do not really care... and I see no reason why she should not sing about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb19 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well put! I personally don't feel that Madonna swearing or talking about cunnilingus is 'rebellious' or 'cool'. I personally don't like vulgar songs. It's like been there done that M, please move on. I loved Erotica (song) and JML because they were sonically interesting and arty but crude references like in Where Life Begins, I just think it's beneath her. I define her 'rebelliousness' as when she has something interesting to say or an interesting angle at viewing something, not when she says a rude word because quite frankly anyone can do that it doesn't require talent. It's certainly not cool, but it is rebellious. I think the thing to remember though is that the song in itself is not rebellious, it's that it's packaged in this way, performed by a fifty six year old woman who many thought got famous for being a slut, and surrounded by tracks about love and ambition. It's like looking at a painting and saying, I don't think those brushstrokes or that colour is particularly interesting it was done here, when you have to step back and look at the whole thing to see the full effect. In this way, I find the religion-baiting songs more been there done that, because it's not a boundary to push, it's just an allusion to her past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 someone has added a 'critical reception' section to Rebel Heart on Wiki and at first glance it looks positive. I just hope no one adds NME's score... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 New York Times' ArtsBeat is really positive! http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/madonna-is-still-madonna-on-rebel-heart/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooncrown11 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Coincidentally, Madonna once said how much she loved Karen Carpenter's voice, describing it as 'pure'. She did? How cool! Do you remember where you read that quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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