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Secret Project


Nonoka

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Nevertheless, they're still in jail. And the massive media hype that came out of the situation effectively meant a tough sentence was the only option, FACT.

However what should a freedom fighter do in that situation other than speak out? Madonna did just that and should be celebrated for it.

We can never be sure that there is a causal connection between madonnas words and their sentence, so we can not say its established fact anyways, its rather your interpretation.

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Sorry but I think that's nonsense. America is a country she knows inside out and she can criticise it with authority, and it's also quite brave, as she will face (and has faced) a backlash when she's said stuff against American actions. Slating a foreign country she doesn't live in, will just make her look like a xenophobe and an American imperialist, and will probably do the pussy-riot cause more harm than good, as it arguably already has -the judge was effectively forced to hand down that sentence, or Russia would have looked like it was caving to foreign pressure. If she does do the Pussy riot thing, it will just be playing to the gallery on a totally safe issue that makes her look like a champion of free speech but with no consequences.

Lucky Guy, I don't understand your reasoning that commenting on other countries makes people look like xenophobes. For years now, I have always hated that in other countries women can be stoned to death for nothing, governments can totally dictate to people what they are allowed to watch and listen to, people from different faiths, races and beliefs can be slaughtered and animals are tortured in the most brutal manner. If we all have the attitude that it is not our problem because we don't live there. we are just simply turning a blind eye and actually being ignorant by saying nothing.

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Lucky Guy, I don't understand your reasoning that commenting on other countries makes people look like xenophobes. For years now, I have always hated that in other countries women can be stoned to death for nothing, governments can totally dictate to people what they are allowed to watch and listen to, people from different faiths, races and beliefs can be slaughtered and animals are tortured in the most brutal manner. If we all have the attitude that it is not our problem because we don't live there. we are just simply turning a blind eye and actually being ignorant by saying nothing.

I don't think that Madonna was wrong to speak out, though I do think it's important that she judged the effectiveness of what she had to say on the situation, and I'm sure she did.

I do think that to continue to speak out further and at length would be rightly seen as hypocritical. At this very moment, Julian Assange is rotting in the Ecquadorian Embassy in London because if he comes out, British Police will arrest him and send him to America for trial, because of all the things he has revealed on wikileaks. That is how America treats someone who speaks out against them -they pursue them to the ends of the earth, and they torture them for information. So why would an American singer continue to bash Russia on free speech? It makes no sense.

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...because Madonna is AmericaN not AmericA. If she were the president then it would be a fair comment for you to make.

You nailed it. Geez, some fans have unrealistic expectations when it comes to Madonna.

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Furthermore, at this moment, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, two of the world's most evil autocracies, are conducting a ruthless repression of their own people, who are trying to rise up and claim democracy. In these countries, stoning is used as a punishment. Rape is used as a tool of repression. Where is queue of celebrities lining up to defend their free speech? Nowhere. Because these countries are US allies, and the US doesn't want democracy and free speech in these countries. If Madonna wants to be a great defender of free speech, she could start by highlighting these abuses, not attacking a very religious Christian country for simply handing out a jail term for desecration of a Church -hardly the worst thing to have happened in the world even that DAY, let alone the whole of 2012.

I disagree. Firstly because I think obviously she felt the need to speak out for Riot because she is an artist herself so surely she felt connection and identification with them. I mean where the world is going to if artists in Russia are jailed for expressing oppinion? Secondly, it is Russia: dont kid, in reality Russia is also US alley, but unlike Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, georgaphycally its a mostly European country, but culturally its European, and the understanding of the rights of the person (at least on paper) mirrors the European one. So this happening there is quite scandalous. Unlike the arabian states, where the whole way of life, the idea of the state, the idea of rights, the connection between the ruler and the sitizens, the law has nothing to do with Europe. Moreso in Saudi Arabia: the most hardcore one the role of the religion is crucial. And this structure of their societies is supported by the people. I have been in an Arabian state, a very modern one yet its totally alien to anything European/American. And who do you think the will of the people in Bahrain/Saudi Arabia would put in power if the monarchs are down? Look at Iran, look at Egypt. They turned to a much darker fundamentalist regime, same thing would happen in the other arabian states. But then even the existing rights would be minimized. Surely one should choose the lesser evil and the US did it.

Also the main discussion was pushed away: the discussion was that you thought Madonna shouldnt have spoken out and that her words have impacted the sentence. I really dont see your point. I do admire Madonna for speaking out. She did the best.

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...because Madonna is AmericaN not AmericA. If she were the president then it would be a fair comment for you to make.

If she were the president she's be diff er ent.

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I don't think that Madonna was wrong to speak out, though I do think it's important that she judged the effectiveness of what she had to say on the situation, and I'm sure she did.

I do think that to continue to speak out further and at length would be rightly seen as hypocritical. At this very moment, Julian Assange is rotting in the Ecquadorian Embassy in London because if he comes out, British Police will arrest him and send him to America for trial, because of all the things he has revealed on wikileaks. That is how America treats someone who speaks out against them -they pursue them to the ends of the earth, and they torture them for information. So why would an American singer continue to bash Russia on free speech? It makes no sense.

Ur sucha difficult child...It don't take Stevie Wonder 2 C she's not only standing up 4 Freedom of Speech but also 4 women she considers colleagues.

It hits close 2 home, cuz they practice the same craft...4 the same reason she became an AIDS activist, cuz her friends were suffering from it and not Multiple Scelrosis.

As a public/figure artist whatever, it's both her privilege & burden 2 speak up 4 what SHE believes in. It's not a matter of which case is the 'wrongest'/worst.

Please sit down.

THE END

:fag:

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I disagree. Firstly because I think obviously she felt the need to speak out for Riot because she is an artist herself so surely she felt connection and identification with them. I mean where the world is going to if artists in Russia are jailed for expressing oppinion? Secondly, it is Russia: dont kid, in reality Russia is also US alley, but unlike Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, georgaphycally its a mostly European country, but culturally its European, and the understanding of the rights of the person (at least on paper) mirrors the European one. So this happening there is quite scandalous. Unlike the arabian states, where the whole way of life, the idea of the state, the idea of rights, the connection between the ruler and the sitizens, the law has nothing to do with Europe. Moreso in Saudi Arabia: the most hardcore one the role of the religion is crucial. And this structure of their societies is supported by the people. I have been in an Arabian state, a very modern one yet its totally alien to anything European/American. And who do you think the will of the people in Bahrain/Saudi Arabia would put in power if the monarchs are down? Look at Iran, look at Egypt. They turned to a much darker fundamentalist regime, same thing would happen in the other arabian states. But then even the existing rights would be minimized. Surely one should choose the lesser evil and the US did it.

Also the main discussion was pushed away: the discussion was that you thought Madonna shouldnt have spoken out and that her words have impacted the sentence. I really dont see your point. I do admire Madonna for speaking out. She did the best.

So their people deserve brutal repression because they are arabs and therefore not to be expected to adhere to high standards like 'Europeans'? Borderline racist nonsense. Who would the people put into power if the evil autocracies fell? Well that would be their choice -they could hardly be MORE fundamentalist than a wahhabist regime that stones and beheads people for being gay or committing adultery. And the oil wealth of the region would mean the new democracies would have every hope of flourishing.

Despite all we hear about how evil Iran is, how many countries have they invaded since the revolution in the 1970's? 0. How many countries has America invaded in that time? America supported the 'Arab Spring' in countries with nationalistic regimes like Egypt, Libya and now Syria which opposed American interests. In countries like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia that are aligned with American interests, democracy and free speech can take a hike. That is blatant and evil hypocrisy and that's what I call a worthy cause to speak out on.

These girls set out to cause a scandal. They can hardly complain when they succeed in causing one. Frankly there are a lot of people dead, dying, jailed, starving, and suffering in the world who were put in that position through no fault of their own, who need someone to speak out for them a lot more.

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These girls set out to cause a scandal. They can hardly complain when they succeed in causing one. Frankly there are a lot of people dead, dying, jailed, starving, and suffering in the world who were put in that position through no fault of their own, who need someone to speak out for them a lot more.

Madonna picked one cause she felt connected to, if everyone follows her lead a lot would change in the world. Or you could just hope for her to get to each individual case in her lifetime.

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Madonna picked one cause she felt connected to, if everyone follows her lead a lot would change in the world. Or you could just hope for her to get to each individual case in her lifetime.

Bingo.

It's completely irrational to expect her to be able to speak up about every injustice in this world. Even the most respected and well liked politicians over the years don't get to EVERYTHING. And Lucky Guy, who are you to determine what DESERVES to be spoken out on and what causes are worthy or not?? How arrogant to try to dictate to someone what is worthy or not worthy of being passionate about. Isn't that a very personal thing?? The issues you speak of are obviously important to you for your own reasons just like Madonna has her own reasons for supporting the causes she supports. Someone speaking out for the issues you speak of would be promoting goodness in the world just as Madonna speaking out for Pussy Riot...just on a smaller scale. It's ALL promoting goodness though, what's the problem with that?? Like Supernatural said, if EVERYBODY fought for a cause that's close to them personally then the world would be a much better place.

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I'm getting more and more convinced that this project is actually called "secret project" and that it's going to be published via stevenkleinstudio.com Just a hunch.

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So their people deserve brutal repression because they are arabs and therefore not to be expected to adhere to high standards like 'Europeans'? Borderline racist nonsense.

No, you obviously didnt get what I was saying. I said that at certain societies like the arabian one (where I have been, have YOU?) the western ideas of rights are not embraced at personal level. They are much more social, there are "moral codes", "moral police" etc: certain institutions that never existed in Europe or USA. Their idea of individualism has nothing to do with the western one. And not imposing our views for me means also respecting their way of life.

Who would the people put into power if the evil autocracies fell? Well that would be their choice -they could hardly be MORE fundamentalist than a wahhabist regime that stones and beheads people for being gay or committing adultery. And the oil wealth of the region would mean the new democracies would have every hope of flourishing.

As I said Iran and Egypt are good examples. The people chose more religious, more fundamelists regimes.

As I said the discussion was moved to a different topic than the original. You said Madonna shouldnt have spoken out (which got me baffled). Why exactly?

These girls set out to cause a scandal. They can hardly complain when they succeed in causing one. Frankly there are a lot of people dead, dying, jailed, starving, and suffering in the world who were put in that position through no fault of their own, who need someone to speak out for them a lot more.

Thats how YOU feel. Your subjective idea for whats MORE important not Madonnas (obviously) and your idea of what happened with Pussy Riot. That doesnt make them the right ones. Maybe for starters you have to start making distinction between whats subjective and whats objective. In most of you post you have been pushing your ideas of what is wrong, right etc. However any individual can priotarize whats important for him and Madge has done just that. I d say you have alot of growing up to do.

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