Mat.Guy Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Guy O said Madonna wants to tour in places she never went to like India and Iran (). That's ONE of the reasons I don't want a second leg for MDNA. She should save new places for the future tours, so she can have other huge numbers like she has now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Which makes no sense at all in terms of visual evidence. Some people have yet to grasp the concept that all these Billboard figures are not representative of actual attendance but rather of a benchmark expected attendance set out months in advance by the promoter and disclosed to Billboard as a reference point. Find us the proof or official statements of this in particular, and people will stop debating with you. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, especially in this case since it makes Madonna look better But so far you're just echoing what others have said, and they had no proof of this theory either. Visual evidence is not proof, since 29,000 and 42,000 are almost impossible to discern from each other when they're such monumental numbers. Plus, the photos don't even include the entire aerial view of the stadium. It's like being presented with 2 pictures of leafy green trees, taken up close, and saying one has 10,000 leaves and the other has 8,000. How can you tell the difference when you can't even see the whole picture? And if you could, would you even be able to tell then? Who knows. And that's not even getting into the relatively low gross Nice had, which would match up with it's "lower" attendance (which is still pretty good). So, if Live Nation isn't reporting higher attendance when it occurs, and isn't bound by tax rules, then what's stopping them from simply updating their attendance record for Billboard and making Madonna's numbers look better? Shouldn't be that hard after all, if Billboard is just a media outlet. Making that kind of information public is good business sense and encourages investors. Right? I agree that someone just email Billboard. We all want Madonna to be more successful than what is being reported of course, but the pattern this entire tour has that demand is much lower in certain markets, and the numbers in Nice & Rio don't seem like outliers in that sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pedrohdi Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Brazil's panel: Look to the gross revenue comparison! S&S had 1 more show and just 2 million dollars more! Average per show in 2008: 4,556,891 Average per show in 2012: 5,085,325 That's what I'm talking about huge priced tickets! Half the attendence, same amount of money, clearly the "problem" in Brasil and SA in general was the very high prices! She could've more people to attend if the prices were lower! That way, only the fans will go to see her! And the more people see her live the better! And everybody that sees her live becomes a fan, or at least will look at her diferently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Half the attendence, same amount of money, clearly the "problem" in Brasil and SA in general was the very high prices! She could've more people to attend if the prices were lower! That way, only the fans will go to see her! And the more people see her live the better! And everybody that sees her live becomes a fan, or at least will look at her diferently! Thing is we're going through a HUGE crisis in SA(Argentina's economy is in the dumps), so yes, the demand wasn't as high as in 2008 because of the big ass ticket prices but the sad truth is that that is the only way producers can bring a show like the MDNA Tour to places like Argentina... Madonna is still, by far, the most popular and successful solo artist in this region(check Britney's and Gaga's boxscores and you'll understand what i mean, and their ticket prices were quite cheaper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeravA Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I still don't understand people that say the SA leg under performed. JLO, Britney and especially Gaga (who was expected to draw big crowd) flopped. Shakira who's supposed to be huge didn't sell out any of her shows Springsteen couldn't even sell out a 12,000 people in Mexico city. Even rock bands like Red Hot Chilli Peppers didn't sell out their Sao Paulo and Columbia shows. Coldplay only played festivals in SA. I could go on and on... Madonna had less people this year because there was less anticipation than in 2008 but still did amazingly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apples388 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 I still don't understand people that say the SA leg under performed. Because some Madonna fans are completely detached from reality. And yes these are the same fans that think that there will be a 2nd leg for the tour. They also tend to think that "Give me All Your Luvin'" was a hit (and a good song) and the album did not underperform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 That's a beautiful picture! Is that Rio? That's Nice And the stands looked like that as well Ask GU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeravA Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 LOL Suedehead I guess some of us are as delusional as lambs or monsters. Madsonna fans also tend to be over dramatic and have meltdowns over anything. Its kinda cute reaaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Find us the proof or official statements of this in particular, and people will stop debating with you. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, especially in this case since it makes Madonna look better But so far you're just echoing what others have said, and they had no proof of this theory either. I was there and I saw it with my eyes, I didn't have a cam with me. But this is a fan board right, it's not like I am getting richer by saying the stadium in Nice was packed to capacity. I just don't like it when people who weren't even there have decided on their own that it wasn't a packed venue. I've been trying to find shots and footage on google of the stands in Nice but I can't If people who were there are telling you that it was packed, is it that hard to get a hint from the shot of the field that maybe indeed the venue was fully packed? *waits for smartasses to say there aren't shots of the stands because it would show they were not full and not because maybe nobody uploaded a shot or footage of the stands* GU were the stands half-empty to justify a 13,000 people discrepancy from 2008? Same is probably the explanation for RIO It's not hard go into the Scrapple thread and look at pcs from the crowd in RIO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 We all want Madonna to be more successful than what is being reported of course, but the pattern this entire tour has that demand is much lower in certain markets, and the numbers in Nice & Rio don't seem like outliers in that sense. Now this is clearly false. Billboard has always reported non sell-outs. Many artists/managements choose in fact to go down the non-disclosure route. See Kylie with her 2010 tour, we have figures for 32 shows over a total of 80 gigs Let's just call things what they are, she had the biggest tour of the year and one of the biggest-selling record too. Sticky and Sweet or any previous effort by anyone is not the scale of measurement in uncertain times like this. Especially in fickle fields like the music industry or entertainment in general, with the kind of patterns we all know about. I just don't understand why some of you always have to go nitpick on everything she does like *why hasn't she sold 10m copies like 7 years ago or she sold 34 tickets less for this and that venue* This is just being out of touch really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pedrohdi Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I still don't understand people that say the SA leg under performed. JLO, Britney and especially Gaga (who was expected to draw big crowd) flopped. Shakira who's supposed to be huge didn't sell out any of her shows Springsteen couldn't even sell out a 12,000 people in Mexico city. Even rock bands like Red Hot Chilli Peppers didn't sell out their Sao Paulo and Columbia shows. Coldplay only played festivals in SA. I could go on and on... Madonna had less people this year because there was less anticipation than in 2008 but still did amazingly well. She didn't underperform, that was not what I said, what I was trying to say is, that with cheaper tickets she could draw a larger crowd, a crowd that is not so into to Madonna, and we know that that kind of people after seeing her live change their minds about her. In Rio for instance, if the prices were lower, insted of the 35000 fans, she could've had 90000 fans and not so fans and the producer would still make a profit. Probably in other places she would have to play more nights (don't know if she was up to it) but in Rio it was clearly a case of too much higher prices. But she didn't underperformed, half the attendence of 2008 but the same amount of money! Well if money is what matters most, then it did better then last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeravA Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 XXL I just spoke to some family members and friends who attended to Rio show about the Rio score, and they confirmed out doubts.They said there is NO WAY IN HELL the Rio show had only 34,000 people in attendance! They estimated that close to 60,000 people attnded the show! they were actually shocked by the reported numbers. Granted the stadium was not full (it holds about 90,000 people) and my brother heard from people who worked with the promoters that it was less than the reported numbers, but definitley not the low numbers reported by Billboard. Of coure they could all be wrong, but it's always best to get the feel from people who were actually there. OK now i'm really curious....what the hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayGuy Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 How about we just accept what was reported and marvel at Her Madgesty's touring prowess, both artistically and commercially? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIRTY PIG Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 How about we just accept what was reported and marvel at Her Madgesty's touring prowess, both artistically and commercially? exactly. fucking get over it now. she was the biggest artist in the world touring wise. end of. she wins. move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessie Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 LOL Suedehead I guess some of us are as delusional as lambs or monsters. Madsonna fans also tend to be over dramatic and have meltdowns over anything. Its kinda cute reaaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Local press usually reports how many people attended the show and they're pretty accurate in most cases, they may be off by 5,000 people, not more. What did the local press claim in Rio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeravA Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 LOL Nessie. My damn phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeravA Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Gus the local press reported 67,000 to 70,000 people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 This article says 67,000 ppl in attendance. http://caras.uol.com.br/canal/nacionais/post/mesmo-atrasada-madonna-encanta-publico-carioca#image0 This one claims 60,000(it says they expected 90,000). http://yucatan.com.mx/espectaculos/madonna-desentona-en-rio Another article from Peru, 60,000(it also mentios that they expected 90,000) http://elcomercio.pe/espectaculos/1504836/noticia-madonna-inicio-gira-brasil-menos-publico-esperado If you see all the reports from Mexico and Colombia and even some in Europe, attendance numbers reported by press are pretty much on par with what is reported by Billboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 XXL I just spoke to some family members and friends who attended to Rio show about the Rio score, and they confirmed out doubts.They said there is NO WAY IN HELL the Rio show had only 34,000 people in attendance! They estimated that close to 60,000 people attnded the show! they were actually shocked by the reported numbers. Granted the stadium was not full (it holds about 90,000 people) and my brother heard from people who worked with the promoters that it was less than the reported numbers, but definitley not the low numbers reported by Billboard. Of coure they could all be wrong, but it's always best to get the feel from people who were actually there. OK now i'm really curious....what the hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Now this is clearly false No it's not. Her attendance in Europe and South America was lower this time around. Now, the reasons for that are debatable, but that's the truth. Doesn't make the tour any less amazing or her numbers any less enviable. Let's just call things what they are, she had the biggest tour of the year and one of the biggest-selling record too. Who's arguing that? Who? Sticky and Sweet or any previous effort by anyone is not the scale of measurement in uncertain times like this. When you're comparing touring demand from last time around, yes it is. Now whether or not the lower attendance is the fault of oversaturation or a weak economy, or some combo of both, that's a different conversation. Notice how i never said that decreased demand made this tour's success any less significant. It doesn't. She's still the #1 touring force. This conversation is about why you seem to think there's a discrepancy in the numbers. No one said the Nice show was a flop. If anyone is trying to steer the conversation to whether MDNA is a flop, it's you I just don't understand why some of you always have to go nitpick on everything she does like *why hasn't she sold 10m copies like 7 years ago or she sold 34 tickets less for this and that venue* This is just being out of touch really You're the one who initiates the conversation when boxscores are released. So if you don't wanna discuss it, then say you don't wanna discuss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catboy Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 flop south america tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 flop south america tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aorlaan Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The IRS doesn't look for data at Billboard. They look into bank accounts and what any private individual/organisation declares. This is just journalism/showbiz stuff, hardly a legal reference point for any tax collector. It just gives a measure of which tours and to what degree were more or less successfull. Much like the IRS obviously doesn't look into Forbes to ascertain the net worth or how much taxable any celebrity might be. Wow there has to be a million+ there at the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFan Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Wow there has to be a million+ there at the least LUV!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuckeye Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonoka Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Wow there has to be a million+ there at the least I hope that was irony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rachelle of London Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat.Guy Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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