Seriously...after all this hoopla... GMAYL should make #1! Elites agree¿?

[loomer]

I wonder if it was a good song if it would have done better... oh well, no cents dwelling on it

Which is why you named yourself after it of course

[vocalism]

I don't think many would be surprised if Mimi performed this way with a lead single these days. Like Madonna, she's "old" and not the "hot thing" right now. In fact the way GMAYL is performing worldwide (number one a couple places, top ten in many others) seems like the way a Mimi lead single would perform these days.

As far as Gaga goes, she's basically at the peak of her career (or was until very recently). Considering she's touted by many of her fans and media outlets as the "new Madonna" and current "Queen Of Pop" and often cited as the biggest pop star in the world at the moment, she should be scoring massive hits at this point. Let's look at Madonna when she was 4 years into her career, she was on top of the world. Between TB and WTG she scored 4 number one singles in less than 2 years in the US plus many more top 10's. Madonna however has LONG been past her peak and with each release it gets more and more difficult for her to get the hits. So yeah, if this were 1987 and we were going on about how great she is doing then it would look a little odd but being that it's 2012 and the stage she's at in her career I'd say she's doing quite well.

This isn't directed to you, just a general comment but I don't see how fans can hold her to the same standards when it comes to charts/sales that they hold the "current" stars to or to how Madonna performed in the past. Hung Up's and 4 Minutes' just aren't going to come as effortlessly these days. What's funny is I can DISTINCTLY remember fans being extremely dismissive of 4M chart performance. People that didn't like that song would come up with every reason in the book to dismiss it's massive success. I mean the song spent a month at number one in the UK and some fans were still finding ways to complain about it so basically Madonna can't win anyways. It seems like some were almost mad that it didn't fail because if it had they could say "see told you it's such a bad song nobody likes it" kind of mentality, but it didn't. If GMAYL had reached the top in 100 countries people that hate it would do the same thing and say "well it's JUST because she paid for plays....or it's just because Nicki....or it's just because she dumbed down her music." Now of course the reason that's it's NOT charting is because it's "just a terrible song". So if it were number one would it not be a terrible song??

Also I find it funny how haters of the song are completely dismissive of the special circumstances in the UK when it comes to this single. OBVIOUSLY it would've charted higher if the charts over there didn't have such stupid rules. It used to be the US charts were ridiculous with it's rules and the UK was getting it right....the US has stepped it up though, time for the UK to follow suit.

Except Mimi has the advantage of being a multi-format artist. Urban radio will play her new songs, but they wouldn't be caught dead playing a white artist, let alone Madonna. They didn't even play 4M. And Mariah is still young enough that she can pull off a big hit.

Regarding Gaga: While she's not as sophisticated (for obvious reasons) as Madonna was in the early '90s, she's basically pushing the same buttons Madonna was at that stage in her career. So even though Gaga is only four years into her career, I don't think you can compare "Born This Way" (which was #1 for six weeks btw) to the kind of mainstream, pretty unchallenging pop that Madonna was churning out in 1987. It wasn't until LAP and beyond that Madonna really pushed the envelope musically and culturally, and that's when her sales and chart stats started to dip, just like Gaga now.

I dislike 4M, but there's a difference: I heard it and thought it would be a big hit. The hook and production were strong, even if Madonna's vocals and lyrics irritated me. And even if it felt like a cheap ploy to score a hit. GMAYL, on the other hand, was shit from the beginning. If 4M had the promo GMAYL got, it would have shot straight to #1. The reason GMAYL is underperforming is because people don't like it very much. If it went to #1, it would still be a terrible song. I see what you're saying about the hypocrisy/double standard, but I'm not really convinced by your argument.

[dnosebapps]

Except Mimi has the advantage of being a multi-format artist. Urban radio will play her new songs, but they wouldn't be caught dead playing a white artist, let alone Madonna. They didn't even play 4M. And Mariah is still young enough that she can pull off a big hit.

Regarding Gaga: While she's not as sophisticated (for obvious reasons) as Madonna was in the early '90s, she's basically pushing the same buttons Madonna was at that stage in her career. So even though Gaga is only four years into her career, I don't think you can compare "Born This Way" (which was #1 for six weeks btw) to the kind of mainstream, pretty unchallenging pop that Madonna was churning out in 1987. It wasn't until LAP and beyond that Madonna really pushed the envelope musically and culturally, and that's when her sales and chart stats started to dip, just like Gaga now.

I dislike 4M, but there's a difference: I heard it and thought it would be a big hit. The hook and production were strong, even if Madonna's vocals and lyrics irritated me. And even if it felt like a cheap ploy to score a hit. GMAYL, on the other hand, was shit from the beginning. If 4M had the promo GMAYL got, it would have shot straight to #1. The reason GMAYL is underperforming is because people don't like it very much. If it went to #1, it would still be a terrible song. I see what you're saying about the hypocrisy/double standard, but I'm not really convinced by your argument.

I don't think this is true at all. Madonna's self titled basically was the first post-disco Dancepop album to hit the mainstream.

Also, Madonna's singles in the 90s and late 80s were musically challenging and innovative along with being lyrically good. Yes, Born This Way had more "challenging" lyrics, but hte production wasn't exactly innovative. None of the production on any of her singles this era really were.

[Kurt420]

Except Mimi has the advantage of being a multi-format artist. Urban radio will play her new songs, but they wouldn't be caught dead playing a white artist, let alone Madonna. They didn't even play 4M. And Mariah is still young enough that she can pull off a big hit.

Regarding Gaga: While she's not as sophisticated (for obvious reasons) as Madonna was in the early '90s, she's basically pushing the same buttons Madonna was at that stage in her career. So even though Gaga is only four years into her career, I don't think you can compare "Born This Way" (which was #1 for six weeks btw) to the kind of mainstream, pretty unchallenging pop that Madonna was churning out in 1987. It wasn't until LAP and beyond that Madonna really pushed the envelope musically and culturally, and that's when her sales and chart stats started to dip, just like Gaga now.

I dislike 4M, but there's a difference: I heard it and thought it would be a big hit. The hook and production were strong, even if Madonna's vocals and lyrics irritated me. And even if it felt like a cheap ploy to score a hit. GMAYL, on the other hand, was shit from the beginning. If 4M had the promo GMAYL got, it would have shot straight to #1. The reason GMAYL is underperforming is because people don't like it very much. If it went to #1, it would still be a terrible song. I see what you're saying about the hypocrisy/double standard, but I'm not really convinced by your argument.

Basically all I'm saying is when 4M went to number one in practically every country in the world (exaggeration yes, but it was pretty massive) there were still people trying to undermine it's success and insisting it shouldn't have been the lead single simply because they don't like it. While GMAYL isn't the massive hit 4M was, overall it is still a hit. Yet the same thing is happening where people that don't like it are insistent it shouldn't have been the lead single and they use the fact that it's not number one in every country for their argument. Ignoring the fact that is a hit in many places and that it would definitely be charting better in the UK if it weren't for the rules of their charts. If GMAYL was the massive hit 4M was those same people would still find ways to undermine it's success to justify their position, instead just accepting the fact they don't like it, others do and moving along.

Regarding the Gaga comparison, I used 4 years since Gaga is 4 years into her career. Without comparing her to anyone else, even if we look at Madonna 10 years into her career vs 4 years into her career, the hits weren't flowing quite as effortlessly even by that point. The point is, the massive back to back hit singles are going to be much harder to come by these days if it happens at all. The fact that she's 53 and 30 years into the game doesn't seem to register with the people who expect her to conquer the world every single time she releases a song. I'm just saying when she was red hot as Gaga is now, that wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation but trying to treat her like she's the "it" girl just seems a little delusional. I understand that Madonna has consistently defied the odds with these sort of things and I'd say she still is even with the comparatively "minor" success of GMAYL.

[vocalism]

^ Of course. Madonna scoring a Top 10 hit today is impressive. Every new hit she scores is a big feat. The odds are stacked against her. But GMAYL could have been bigger if it didn't suck so much. I'm not saying a truly innovative, brilliant song would do any better, because those kinds of songs don't do well in the U.S. (look at Robyn), but it could at least not suck so much.

I don't think this is true at all. Madonna's self titled basically was the first post-disco Dancepop album to hit the mainstream.

Also, Madonna's singles in the 90s and late 80s were musically challenging and innovative along with being lyrically good. Yes, Born This Way had more "challenging" lyrics, but hte production wasn't exactly innovative. None of the production on any of her singles this era really were.

I disagree, but I see your point. More importantly, her image wasn't as out there or button-pushing as Gaga's is. What Gaga is doing today is akin to what Madonna was doing in the early '90s.

[Kurt420]

^ Of course. Madonna scoring a Top 10 hit today is impressive. Every new hit she scores is a big feat. The odds are stacked against her. But GMAYL could have been bigger if it didn't suck so much. I'm not saying a truly innovative, brilliant song would do any better, because those kinds of songs don't do well in the U.S. (look at Robyn), but it could at least not suck so much.

I disagree, but I see your point. More importantly, her image wasn't as out there or button-pushing as Gaga's is. What Gaga is doing today is akin to what Madonna was doing in the early '90s.

Really? I'm interested in how so. I've always thought Madonna at her peak provoked far stronger opinions in people than Gaga in her peak. To me Gaga's "button pushing" is very superficial in comparison to Madonna's. Gaga doesn't really seem to have a controversial message that she tries to convey, I mean being very gay friendly isn't quite as controversial as it used to be and that seems to be her only real message....accept yourself, you were born this way etc etc. I think Gaga's clothes at times have shocked people and some images in her videos but honestly it seems like most people like Gaga. I think she can be a bit too much when it comes to the costumes, but I don't think her messages are too much for people to handle. Madonna on the other hand liked to turn the mirror on people and expose them as hypocritical about "hot button issues" of the day and that pissed people off. On a more superficial level, although in retrospect Madonna's outfits at the time seem "normal" in comparison to Gaga, at the time though some of the stuff was pretty out there. Slutty wedding dress...Boy Toy belt....cone bra.

[neutrocks]

^ Of course. Madonna scoring a Top 10 hit today is impressive. Every new hit she scores is a big feat. The odds are stacked against her. But GMAYL could have been bigger if it didn't suck so much. I'm not saying a truly innovative, brilliant song would do any better, because those kinds of songs don't do well in the U.S. (look at Robyn), but it could at least not suck so much.

I disagree, but I see your point. More importantly, her image wasn't as out there or button-pushing as Gaga's is. What Gaga is doing today is akin to what Madonna was doing in the early '90s.

WOW! So let me get this straight? You joined this forum just days ago which celebrates Madonna, and this is all you can go on and on about... how much the song sucks!?!? And please keep in mind, "how much it sucks" is quite subjective. That's your opinion. Maybe it's not doing as great as some of her past singles and in every country, but please keep in mind, this is a 50 something woman who is still getting massive attention, when that is rarely happening in the pop world. I don't expect you to like everything she does, but I just find it strange that most of your posts are about how much this song sucks when you've only joined just days ago.

I'm sorry to the UK fans that this song isn't doing as well, but let's keep in mind, it's quite a feat that she's still getting top tens in the U.S. where radio is quite ageist and people are more dismissive of older artists. This isn't an excuse. This is a FACT. Not only that, U.S. got the extra advantage in getting some massive exposure to her song with the Superbowl... even though it was broadcasted world-wide.

All in all, I am impressed the song hit the top ten especially knowing many of Madonna's songs in this past and last decade have done far better elsewhere than they did in the U.S. (IE: CELEBRATION) Obviously, the song connected much better with the U.S. this time around. There have been a number of top ten Madonna songs in the UK that didn't hit the top 10 in the U.S. Furthermore, the U.S. is quite vast while the UK is much smaller. Someone said it earlier, that it takes less airplay and sales to chart higher in the UK than in the U.S. The U.S. has a lot more competition on the Hot 100 especially with R&B/Hip Hop and Country been quite dominating these past years.

[Guest Xanthium]

I disagree, but I see your point. More importantly, her image wasn't as out there or button-pushing as Gaga's is. What Gaga is doing today is akin to what Madonna was doing in the early '90s.

Um NO. Lady Gaga's outfits may be more outlandish but she is not nor will she EVER be more button pushing than Madonna has been. That's actually a laughable statement and I'm a big Gaga fan. The Erotica days were EPIC in their controversy. Madonna literally made the US have a MELTDOWN over the Sex Book, Body of Evidence, and the Erotica album. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? Because if you were a teenager or an adult 20 years ago you would know that the controversy Lady Gaga creates today (which is very minimal and more widely accepted anyway) is NOTHING next to Madonna. I mean, Madonna is the QUEEN OF SHOCK. That's what her career was BASED ON until Bedtime Stories basically.

A prime example is Judas. It was her OMG CONTROVERSIAL religious song and nobody gave a fuck.

[vocalism]

You're all taking what I'm saying too literally. Of course Gaga doesn't compare to Madonna. Yes, Madonna was more controversial. Yes, Madonna had better songs. Yes, Madonna's pussy smelled better. My POINT is that Gaga provokes people in a SIMILAR way. The POINT is that she's ATTEMPTING to do things that Madonna did much further into her career. What Madonna was doing/wearing/saying in 1987 wasn't that far out of the mainstream. She wore leotards with cone tipped bustiers and sang songs about being a virgin and keeping her baby. It wasn't until 1989 and the early '90s that she really started getting under people skin in a big way and which started to turn people off. Gaga is doing that much earlier, for similar and different reasons. It's just a comparison. I'm not saying they're twins. Madonna is superior in almost every way.

Xanthie, I'm 32 and am well aware of the Erotica/Sex period and what it was like to be a fan at that time.

And neutrocks, I didn't join this forum two days ago. I don't know what you're talking about. Even if I did, people are only allowed to join a forum if they like the current single by that artist? That's fucking retarded. I love Madonna, but GMAYL sucks. Deal with it.

Edited February 17, 2012 by vocalism

[Guest Xanthium]

You're all taking what I'm saying too literally. Of course Gaga doesn't compare to Madonna. Yes, Madonna was more controversial. Yes, Madonna had better songs. Yes, Madonna's pussy smelled better. My POINT is that Gaga provokes people in a SIMILAR way. The POINT is that she's ATTEMPTING to do things that Madonna did much further into her career. What Madonna was doing/wearing/saying in 1987 wasn't that far out of the mainstream. She wore leotards with cone tipped bustiers and sang songs about being a virgin and keeping her baby. It wasn't until 1989 and the early '90s that she really started getting under people skin in a big way and which started to turn people off. Gaga is doing that much earlier, for similar and different reasons. It's just a comparison. I'm not saying they're twins. Madonna is superior in almost every way.

Xanthie, I'm 32 and am well aware of the Erotica/Sex period and what it was like to be a fan at that time.

Oh ok, I hear what you're saying and I agree with this. I thought you were saying Lady Gaga has been more controversial than Madonna and I was like

[vocalism]

No, I was just responding to someone who said that Gaga is starting to decline and that at this stage (four years into her career) Madonna was still on "top." So what I'm saying is that Gaga is attempting to provoke and deal with controversial issues much sooner in her career than Madonna did, so you can't really compare Gaga circa 2012 with Madonna circa 1987. Madonna was provocative, but not quite to the same level yet. She evolved more naturally and slowly into the angry, rebellious button-pusher that we all (presumably) came to love.

[tuckeye]

cam we get back to madonna now....although u all know how much I JUST LOVE our little lady gags the princess of popular culture and musical brillance

[Guest Xanthium]

No, I was just responding to someone who said that Gaga is starting to decline and that at this stage (four years into her career) Madonna was still on "top." So what I'm saying is that Gaga is attempting to provoke and deal with controversial issues much sooner in her career than Madonna did, so you can't really compare Gaga circa 2012 with Madonna circa 1987. Madonna was provocative, but not quite to the same level yet. She evolved more naturally and slowly into the angry, rebellious button-pusher that we all (presumably) came to love.

This is true. Madonna was controversial at times in the 80's but didn't start going for the jugular until Like A Prayer. I guess either I've seen it all or I just don't find Lady Gaga that controversial. I mean, she's all for gay rights and anti-bullying but so is the majority of America right now. Her imagery is provocative and shocking I guess in that people think it's weird or disturbing or dark but it doesn't make me gasp. Maybe that's because I like what she does. I love that kind of imagery and aesthetic.

[neutrocks]

You're all taking what I'm saying too literally. Of course Gaga doesn't compare to Madonna. Yes, Madonna was more controversial. Yes, Madonna had better songs. Yes, Madonna's pussy smelled better. My POINT is that Gaga provokes people in a SIMILAR way. The POINT is that she's ATTEMPTING to do things that Madonna did much further into her career. What Madonna was doing/wearing/saying in 1987 wasn't that far out of the mainstream. She wore leotards with cone tipped bustiers and sang songs about being a virgin and keeping her baby. It wasn't until 1989 and the early '90s that she really started getting under people skin in a big way and which started to turn people off. Gaga is doing that much earlier, for similar and different reasons. It's just a comparison. I'm not saying they're twins. Madonna is superior in almost every way.

Xanthie, I'm 32 and am well aware of the Erotica/Sex period and what it was like to be a fan at that time.

And neutrocks, I didn't join this forum two days ago. I don't know what you're talking about. Even if I did, people are only allowed to join a forum if they like the current single by that artist? That's fucking retarded. I love Madonna, but GMAYL sucks. Deal with it.

My apologies, still in 2011 mode. Honest mistake.

However, Madonna was quite provocative and pissing people off ever since the Virgin days. Hell, many predicted her career would be over after the VMA performance in '84. Then the nude pics came out. Then, the whole PAPA DON'T PREACH sparked "Madonna Don't Preach". Her outfits were criticized. And she even kicked up a stir even with her "Open Your Heart" video. Seemed some had an issue she was dancing half naked in front of a young boy. Yes, "Like A Prayer" kicked up the controversy a couple notches, but Madonna was always cutting edge. Just because Gaga is borrowing from Madonna's most provocative years, doesn't make her more cutting edge than Madonna. It just means; she knows what caused more controversy with Madonna, so she try to court that similar attention.

Though, I stand by my word that when you say GMAYL "sucks"... that is YOUR OPINION, so maybe you should "deal with it".

[Kurt420]

No, I was just responding to someone who said that Gaga is starting to decline and that at this stage (four years into her career) Madonna was still on "top." So what I'm saying is that Gaga is attempting to provoke and deal with controversial issues much sooner in her career than Madonna did, so you can't really compare Gaga circa 2012 with Madonna circa 1987. Madonna was provocative, but not quite to the same level yet. She evolved more naturally and slowly into the angry, rebellious button-pusher that we all (presumably) came to love.

In another post you mentioned in 1987 Madonna was wearing pointy bustiers, singing about being a virgin and keeping her baby and the funny thing is I think those things were more provoking and controversial than anything Gaga has encountered or tried to provoke in her career thus far....and those are just Madonna's little controversies. So when you compare Gaga's provocation thus far to that of Madonna when she was at the peak of her provocation I have a hard time seeing that. From what I've seen Gaga doesn't really provoke extreme reaction in people. People may think her wardrobe choices are crazy and that she's a bit of weirdo when she talks about incubating in her vessel etc but I don't think many people HATE her for it. Unlike Madonna and her "decline" that began with LAP where people were flat out pissed off and really hated (or really loved) her, Gaga's "decline" seems to be because people just don't care as much anymore. You can only wear so many wacky outfits before people are just like "meh...whatever...next".....just ask Cyndi Lauper! But nobody seems to hate Gaga with the passion Madonna was hated with back then. So in order to compare her to Madonna at the peak of her provocation I think the reaction Gaga gets would have to be a little more extreme than what it is. From day one Madonna's heavy reliance on sexual and religious imagery put a bad taste in the mouths of some. In 1984/85 I'd say that was a bigger deal than anything Gaga has dealt with so far. That made her semi-threatening, button pushing and a bit provoking right out the box. Gaga to me is more non-threatening and kooky moreso comparative to Cyndi Laupers image at that time.

[Guest Evil M]

Um NO. Lady Gaga's outfits may be more outlandish but she is not nor will she EVER be more button pushing than Madonna has been. That's actually a laughable statement and I'm a big Gaga fan. The Erotica days were EPIC in their controversy. Madonna literally made the US have a MELTDOWN over the Sex Book, Body of Evidence, and the Erotica album. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? Because if you were a teenager or an adult 20 years ago you would know that the controversy Lady Gaga creates today (which is very minimal and more widely accepted anyway) is NOTHING next to Madonna. I mean, Madonna is the QUEEN OF SHOCK. That's what her career was BASED ON until Bedtime Stories basically.

A prime example is Judas. It was her OMG CONTROVERSIAL religious song and nobody gave a fuck.

Not true. That song put a lot of people off, hence its relative lack of success.

[Nessie]

LGag plays safe and that's it. Nowadays it's pretty much safe to be gay friendly and that cunt never really take risks. That's said i don't think this discussion belongs to this thread.

[vocalism]

Okay, let me clarify a couple of things. I'd love to go through a react specifically to what each person is saying, but I still haven't figured out how to quote one person, respond, and then quote the next all in one post.

I completely disagree with those of you who don't think Gaga provokes strong reactions from people. I mean, all you have to do is look around a Madonna forum. I know, most Madonna fans don't like Gaga because they DON'T think she's being original or truly provocative, but you have to understand that most of America thinks she's outlandish and weird, and while much of that has to do with her crazy outfits, a lot of it has to do with her music and her messages, including "Born This Way" and "Judas." I know people who hate Madonna that hate Gaga ten times more. I mean, the amount of vitriol that people have for Gaga really is only comparable to Madonna in the early '90s. I was young in the '80s, but I honestly don't believe that Madonna received the same amount of criticism and hate at that point in her career. Sure, she was sexual, had nude photos, etc. etc., and while the Moral Majority of the '80s didn't like her, the majority of Americans and the world loved her and her work. That's why she was so popular. Her popularity started to decline a bit when she started exploring truly subversive topics like religion and homosexuality.

Point being: WE here might not think what Gaga is doing is so provocative and controversial. And most other people probably don't either, but the reactions she's getting are MUCH closer to Madonna circa 1989-1993 than Madonna in the '80s.

[Butter9]

I think Madonna's fans don't think Gaga is original because we grew up with Madonna and saw what she's done as an envelop pusher until she herself became that envelope. A benchmark for new female pop stars.

They all get to be the ' The New Madonna' at some point in their career . Madonna might not have written the gay anthem that's BTW but in my humble opinion every Madonna's song is a gay anthem and I think that's so much cooler that way.

And believe me Madonna has had it rougher than Gaga . You wouldn't believe the many media/public shit storms she received during her 30 years in the music biz. I have to admit there were many points at which even I thought she was over but somehow she managed to rise from the ashes like a phoenix. I don't know how she does it.

[horn]

Madonna should do this:

GMAYL featuring Rihanna & Katy Perry.

[Guest FrozenEyes]

How much Lady Gaga can be talked about in a GMAYL thread you ask? Please see this thread.

[Guest FrozenEyes]

Madonna should do this:

GMAYL featuring Rihanna & Katy Perry & Lady Gaga.

Umm you are not following the recent trend of this discussion. Now it's fixed.

[Kurt420]

Okay, let me clarify a couple of things. I'd love to go through a react specifically to what each person is saying, but I still haven't figured out how to quote one person, respond, and then quote the next all in one post.

I completely disagree with those of you who don't think Gaga provokes strong reactions from people. I mean, all you have to do is look around a Madonna forum. I know, most Madonna fans don't like Gaga because they DON'T think she's being original or truly provocative, but you have to understand that most of America thinks she's outlandish and weird, and while much of that has to do with her crazy outfits, a lot of it has to do with her music and her messages, including "Born This Way" and "Judas." I know people who hate Madonna that hate Gaga ten times more. I mean, the amount of vitriol that people have for Gaga really is only comparable to Madonna in the early '90s. I was young in the '80s, but I honestly don't believe that Madonna received the same amount of criticism and hate at that point in her career. Sure, she was sexual, had nude photos, etc. etc., and while the Moral Majority of the '80s didn't like her, the majority of Americans and the world loved her and her work. That's why she was so popular. Her popularity started to decline a bit when she started exploring truly subversive topics like religion and homosexuality.

Point being: WE here might not think what Gaga is doing is so provocative and controversial. And most other people probably don't either, but the reactions she's getting are MUCH closer to Madonna circa 1989-1993 than Madonna in the '80s.

I know it comes across that I'm just trying to dispute everything you say "just because" but I swear I'm really not!! I just find it interesting that you have observed this extreme vitriol towards Gaga because I just don't see it with the general public or the media. I'm not saying there aren't people out there that despise her because of Judas or BTW because I'm sure there are plenty, but I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't like her for any other reason besides "she's weird".....and I don't think those people HATE her.

Anyways, again, the things you mention in a somewhat jestful way in this post regarding Madonna's "controversies".....extremely sexual, nude photos leaking, Moral Majority against her.....from what I can tell all of those things caused far more of a "ruckus" and divided people about Madonna pretty early on moreso than Gaga at this point. Yes, through TB she was MORE accepted by the general public....as witnessed by the BIG drop in sales from TB to LAP but she always walked that fine line and I think with burning crosses and black Jesus' (in 1989) she finally crossed it and from that point on the factor from her sexual image turned into more vitriol because of what was perceived to be her beliefs at the time.

I mean when I think of Madonna at the very peak of her provocation she had America in complete meltdown mode (somebody actually said this recently in here). I just don't see where Gaga's provocation comes anywhere near that at this point in her career. Again, I'm not disputing what you say, I believe you have encountered people that HATE her in the way Madonna was hated....I'm just trying to figure out why??

I think I'm just desensitized at this point because there is absolutely nothing offensive about Gaga to me. I can't even look through someone elses eyes and see how she's THAT offensive.....kooky yes....weirdo yes.....annoying yes.....but offensive enough to provoke the strong hatred Madonna provoked?? That's just crazy to me!!

[5iVe Elements]

I'm happy with a Top 10. If it hit #1 I would be ecstatic but I'll take what I can get now (as a newbie fan) and be contented with it. I wish I was a fan back in her peak so I could experience what it really felt like to be supporting her back then, and witnessing her success.

[Guest Fukujima]

for all the Gaga loons over here, there is a thread for you in the Princess Section...would u mind to go there to discuss your idol?? this thread has been created to discuss GAYL...you can always use PMs but let this be a place to enjoy or criticize M'S LATEST SINGLE and not your personal infatuation with that putrid girl.

[Nessie]

for all the Gaga loons over here, there is a thread for you in the Princess Section...would u mind to go there to discuss your idol?? this thread has been created to discuss GAYL...you can always use PMs but let this be a place to enjoy or criticize M'S LATEST SINGLE and not your personal infatuation with that putrid girl.

[vocalism]

^ The conversation started because someone said that you can't expect Madonna to be on top at this stage in her career, that even Gaga was started to fade. We went off on a slight tangent about WHY Gaga's popularity has started to fade - and it's 100% relevant to Madonna's career. If you think we should start a new thread about this specific tangent, that's fair, but at what point does someone decide to do that. I don't think anyone intended it to go on this long. It happens. It's a forum! (And it's not like the title of this thread makes much sense anyway!)

I know it comes across that I'm just trying to dispute everything you say "just because" but I swear I'm really not!! I just find it interesting that you have observed this extreme vitriol towards Gaga because I just don't see it with the general public or the media. I'm not saying there aren't people out there that despise her because of Judas or BTW because I'm sure there are plenty, but I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't like her for any other reason besides "she's weird".....and I don't think those people HATE her.

Anyways, again, the things you mention in a somewhat jestful way in this post regarding Madonna's "controversies".....extremely sexual, nude photos leaking, Moral Majority against her.....from what I can tell all of those things caused far more of a "ruckus" and divided people about Madonna pretty early on moreso than Gaga at this point. Yes, through TB she was MORE accepted by the general public....as witnessed by the BIG drop in sales from TB to LAP but she always walked that fine line and I think with burning crosses and black Jesus' (in 1989) she finally crossed it and from that point on the factor from her sexual image turned into more vitriol because of what was perceived to be her beliefs at the time.

I mean when I think of Madonna at the very peak of her provocation she had America in complete meltdown mode (somebody actually said this recently in here). I just don't see where Gaga's provocation comes anywhere near that at this point in her career. Again, I'm not disputing what you say, I believe you have encountered people that HATE her in the way Madonna was hated....I'm just trying to figure out why??

I think I'm just desensitized at this point because there is absolutely nothing offensive about Gaga to me. I can't even look through someone elses eyes and see how she's THAT offensive.....kooky yes....weirdo yes.....annoying yes.....but offensive enough to provoke the strong hatred Madonna provoked?? That's just crazy to me!!

Well, I don't think we disagree all that much. I just think we keep getting away from the point. I'm not trying to say that Gaga causing as much controversy, or that the media has bashed her as much as Madonna. Hell no. All I'm saying is that Gaga's popularity has leveled off partly because she's taking on less mainstream topics and imagery. It doesn't compare to the Justify My Love/Sex period. But above and beyond what Madonna was doing circa Who's That Girl! Automatically when you start exploring more arty things, you're going to lose some of your audience - and THAT was all this conversation started out as. If Adele started using hyper-religious imagery and homoerotic imagery, her sales will drop.

Regarding the Gaga hate, I think the hate toward her among some Madonna fans is obvious, so I'm guessing you see that. But I've also seen online and in person people who think Gaga is manipulative, calculated, fraudulent, trashy, and completely unoriginal. They absolutely despise her and think she represents the worst of pop music and that she's even the END of it. Silly. Maybe all those people are secret Madonna fans, but I'm pretty sure some of them also think the same of Madonna.

I think there are always going to be conservative/puritanical/religious people who will never like someone like Madonna and Gaga because of what they stand for. But in Madonna's case, I don't think the average American really had a strong opinion about her. They either liked her music or didn't. By the early '90s, though, I think many, many average people thought she was a "slut." I'm not sure they "hated" her. I don't think anyone was sitting there going "I hate her for her progressive, subversive ideas!" They just thought she was trashy and flashing her tits all over the place.

Edited February 17, 2012 by vocalism

[Nessie]

I think there are always going to be conservative/puritanical/religious people who will never like someone like Madonna and Gaga because of what they stand for.

Oh please Joanne stands for nothing! Wake Up! If it were cool to burn gays at the stake she would be the first throwing the wood!

Now move.

[Supernatural]

Madonna was very controvercial in the 80s, pre-Like A Prayer. At some point the masses move on to some degree and big music stars are left with their fan base, for Madonna this was around the time of Like A Prayer. The song is considered a classic now, but I remember it being new and everyone was talking about Paula Abdul. Gaga burned through too much too fast and is already at that stage where her fans are hanging on her every word but the general public is done.

[dollhouse]

Madonna was very controvercial in the 80s, pre-Like A Prayer. At some point the masses move on to some degree and big music stars are left with their fan base, for Madonna this was around the time of Like A Prayer. The song is considered a classic now, but I remember it being new and everyone was talking about Paula Abdul. Gaga burned through too much too fast and is already at that stage where her fans are hanging on her every word but the general public is done.

+1

Paula Abdul and Janet were huge that year and kinda stole Madonnas thunder, but where are they now?