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CELEBRATION: A RETARDATION.


Mattress

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he's obviously lying and not accepting the facts.

Lying?? Why would I lie? That's just ridiculous to make such a comment. I've been listening to this over and over. I hear no clicks and pops as mentioned. There is no need to accuse me of lying. I can't believe the "shit stirring" comments people are making over this.

I'll tell you what I do know that some people who scream at others for letting them have their say, do not allow others the same courtesy!! :thumbsdown:

It seems to me the norm here is if you're not bitching and moaning or flaming someone, than you are the target of being flamed!!! :manson::wacko:

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I was the one who posted those. All but "La Isla Bonita" came from the "Simply The Best Of Warner Music UK" promo 2 CD set.

http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=353656

Yes, it was you! Thank you. :)

I think that's the best version too. I like the funkier edge to the song rather than the disco feel the Shep remix offers. I also think that when they used the 7" for the video, the little percussive intro didn't flow well into the song either, though it worked better than it did for the Shep mix. I do believe the Shep mix works better for the video however. Sometimes I wish there were another video that fits the 7" version better.

Do you have the 7" of La Isla?

Yes, I love the "Local Mix" intro. However, pasting it in front of the Shep mix was just sloppy, in my opinion. I did an edit of the "Local Mix" years ago, similar to the official 7" Remix. I may just have to attempt that again. I love the cold fade of "express yourself" at the end. I miss that in the 7" Remix.

And yes, I have the 7" Remix of "La Isla Bonita". I came across a WAV file of the 1998 remaster this morning. I just spent the past few hours doing a remaster of it. It didn't actually take me a few hours to do, but I spent a few hours comparing and listening to a few different remasters that I had attempted. I think that I finally got it right! Check the multimedia forum shortly for my post.

I also did a remaster of "Express Yourself [7" Remix]" as well. However, this one is still in it's listening stages. This one is a bitch to remaster because I'm working from an old 1989 CD source. I'm trying to get everything right, so the best thing to do is take a break from it and come back to it. Then I can have a better judgment of the mastering.

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Would you be able to post WAV files so TheRain can remaster them? We'd all love you. ;)

Oooh, yes! Would love to have WAV files of these 1998 remasters. :)

I came across a WAV file of "Like A Prayer [7" Version w/o Fade]" (5:24) from the Japan 3" CD single. Just completed a remaster of this, and I must admit that it sounds great considering it's from a 1989 CD source. I did a side by side comparison to the 2009 Pat Kraus "LP Version" remaster for reference. They are different mixes, but at least I got an idea of how it should sound. This 7" Version still sounds like everything is buried a bit in the mix, but there's only so much that can be done. Then again, most of your old '80s CDs have audio that sounds buried in the background. It's worth noting, too, that Kraus' remaster has been brickwalled (think Ted Jensen's 2001 remasters). My new remaster has been brickwalled only to a small extent, but nothing like Kraus'. It's also a bit bass heavy, but Kraus' is a well ... maybe not as much as mine, however. In any case, it's really amazing the difference that a WAV file makes over an MP3 file when remastering, hence why I only like to work from WAV files. In any case, I will upload these remasters to the Multimedia forum within the next 24 hours. Going to test them out in my car first, however, for more analysis. ;)

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Oooh, yes! Would love to have WAV files of these 1998 remasters. :)

I came across a WAV file of "Like A Prayer [7" Version w/o Fade]" (5:24) from the Japan 3" CD single. Just completed a remaster of this, and I must admit that it sounds great considering it's from a 1989 CD source. I did a side by side comparison to the 2009 Pat Kraus "LP Version" remaster for reference. They are different mixes, but at least I got an idea of how it should sound. This 7" Version still sounds like everything is buried a bit in the mix, but there's only so much that can be done. Then again, most of your old '80s CDs have audio that sounds buried in the background. It's worth noting, too, that Kraus' remaster has been brickwalled (think Ted Jensen's 2001 remasters). My new remaster has been brickwalled only to a small extent, but nothing like Kraus'. It's also a bit bass heavy, but Kraus' is a well ... maybe not as much as mine, however. In any case, it's really amazing the difference that a WAV file makes over an MP3 file when remastering, hence why I only like to work from WAV files. In any case, I will upload these remasters to the Multimedia forum within the next 24 hours. Going to test them out in my car first, however, for more analysis. ;)

Thanks so much, Rain. I'm really looking forward to these.

If you're looking for a better remaster of the 7" version of "Like a Prayer" without fade, however, you should get a WAV file of that track from Mattress. He has the 1998 remaster of it from the Warner Promo discs, and in my opinion, it sounds better than the one from the Japan 3" single. I have both--but only in mp3 form (provided by Mattress about a year ago).

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Didn't Mattress say that the 2001 remasters of the first 3 albums weren't very good either? Sounded fine to me and certainly an improvement. And I assume they at least went back to the master tapes there, unlike with Celebration.

But I suppose those remasters are yet another case of "the loudness wars" and they're compromising top end detail for the sake of volume. It should be about clarity and the recordings original intent. The Abbey Road Beatles remaster team need to be sent to work on Madge. :americanlife:

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Thanks so much, Rain. I'm really looking forward to these.

If you're looking for a better remaster of the 7" version of "Like a Prayer" without fade, however, you should get a WAV file of that track from Mattress. He has the 1998 remaster of it from the Warner Promo discs, and in my opinion, it sounds better than the one from the Japan 3" single. I have both--but only in mp3 form (provided by Mattress about a year ago).

Yes, if Mattress is willing to share the WAV file I would love to have it. I have the MP3 from Mattress as well. And yes, it sounds much better than the 1989 Japan 3" single version, but that is expected since the 1998 one was remastered.

On another note, I just tweaked a new remaster of "Express Yourself [7" Remix]", and I think that it sounds great (again, considering the 1989 source). I did an A/B comparison to the original CD source master, and it's like night and day. It's really amazing how flat the original mastering was.

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Didn't Mattress say that the 2001 remasters of the first 3 albums weren't very good either? Sounded fine to me and certainly an improvement. And I assume they at least went back to the master tapes there, unlike with Celebration.

But I suppose those remasters are yet another case of "the loudness wars" and they're compromising top end detail for the sake of volume. It should be about clarity and the recordings original intent. The Abbey Road Beatles remaster team need to be sent to work on Madge. :americanlife:

The problem with the 2001 remasters is that Ted Jensen, the mastering engineer, made them too loud and brickwalled, squashing the dyamics quite badly in a number of the songs. Even though I, personally, like to have my remasters sound loud even I admit that he went a bit overboard, and that was evident when looking at the sound wave in an audio editing program. On another note, I also compared the sound wave to sound waves from the 'Hard Candy' album. Funny thing is that they are both very similar. That's how music is done nowadays. It's brickwalled! Ted was probably just doing what was expected of him by the label. Regardless, the Ted Jensen remasters sound much, much better than the original flat CD pressings, in my opinion. And yes, I'm sure that they went back to the original master tapes. As for the 'Celebration' project I imagine that they went back to the original master tapes for many of the tracks but then just butchered edits from the full length versions. "Cherish", for example, sounds like it has been pulled from the original master tape. It probably received it's butchered edit thereafter.

Yeah, it's all about the "loudness wars" as you mention. Everyone has an opinion on sound. I think that many people think louder means better, hence the brickwalling. Hell, even I'm guilty of it when attempting my own remastering. However, I tend to pay closer attention to the sound wave now when doing it to make sure that it's not overdone. My new remaster of "Express Yourself", for example, I had brickwalled a bit too much originally, so I had to play around with it and adjust some settings. It's still been squashed to an extent, but it's nothing like some of the recent mastering of today.

I would love to hear these Beatles' remasters. I'll have to check them out. There's a lot of good mastering coming out of Abbey Road studios nowadays. I do think, however, that Madonna's back catalogue could benefit from a different mastering engineer. However, each record label tends to have only certain ones that they use, so I think that we're stuck with what we have.

Anyhow, I'm seriously rambling now. That's all for now. I need to get going. :p

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Guest Pud Whacker

im so glad the internet was NOT around when i was growing up. i can only imagine the complaints about you can dance if the internet was around. and i love me some you can dance. fall of 1987 - summer of '88 baby!!!

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Btw, even Revolver was fucked up :lmao:

from fanzine:

"Dj franke acknowledged the bad copy/paste Job of lil waynes rap on revolver (you can hear the 'do' from do you wanna be my target) but they won't let him fix it"

:hotmess:

Where's that bit?

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Guest Pud Whacker

Where's that bit?

2:42, right after she says, EAT HOLE. and then at 3:57 there was supposed to be an additional hiccup but they totally forgot.

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“What? No ‘Hanky Panky’? Is this some kind of joke? Given how obsessive her fans are, it’s a thankless task for Madonna to assemble a two-CD hit collection. But from the opening one-two of ‘Hung Up’ and ‘Music,’ two of her best ever, Celebration kicks off with pure bliss and never lets up. It’s a dizzying, nonchronological spin through the Madonna years, years it makes you feel lucky to be living through. Her hitmaking genius is unmatched and—with the new Eurocheese blast ‘Celebration’ and the Lil Wayne duet ‘Revolver’—undiminished. It’s almost enough to make you forget that they left off ‘Angel,’ which is just plain crazypants.” —Rob Sheffield

:lol: The ones that bug me are just Dress You Up and Erotica and a few of the quick fades. Other than that I suck at the details :)

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Updated the list a bit.

"Hollywood" begins abruptly and does have the last bar of "American Life"'s fade audible.

I don't hear this :( I hear birds!! Just the birds!! Are u sure you are listening to an actual copy of the new cd and not a fake fan created mix? I hear what you're referring to if I play Hollywood from American Life album but not the copy of Celebration that I have.

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I don't hear this :( I hear birds!! Just the birds!! Are u sure you are listening to an actual copy of the new cd and not a fake fan created mix? I hear what you're referring to if I play Hollywood from American Life album but not the copy of Celebration that I have.

Ok I hear it but only if I really have the volume on super high which would hurt if I allowed it to continue.

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Btw, even Revolver was fucked up :lmao:

from fanzine:

"Dj franke acknowledged the bad copy/paste Job of lil waynes rap on revolver (you can hear the 'do' from do you wanna be my target) but they won't let him fix it"

:hotmess:

I didn't notice that you could hear "do" (from "do you wanna be my target") -- but I am *not* surprised. It did seem lazily pasted onto Madonna's version (from the earlier demo) -- because, to me, his "My love is a revolver" which effectively ENDS his cameo verse in Madonna's version just seems like it is totally snipped off unceremoniously and left me expecting him to launch into "do you wanna be my target?" I wasn't sure if that was ONLY because I was already familiar with the demo or if it really was going to sound odd to someone who'd never heard that, as well. It just sounds like he's about to ramp it up a notch and it cuts off.

I also miss in the released version how the "I line 'em up and watch them faaaaaaaaaaaal" doesn't dovetail into another round of the chorus. This line appears twice in the released version -- the first time, Lil Wayne raps over it, the second time he's just ad-libbing over it. In the demo, when RaVaughn sang "I shoot em up and watch em faaaaaal," it was overlapped by a reprise of the chorus (and ended with "I let it bang-bang").

I do like "Revolver" -- and Madonna was right to edit out the third verse from the original demo ("One little taste and now you're...") because that didn't really add much and wasn't quite coherent to me. So she did make some judicious choices, but it does seem like there were a few compromises on the way.

The whole story of this demo and how it came to be introduced to Madonna and recorded with DJ Frank E would be most interesting. I've heard bits and pieces (from the singer in the demo, supposedly, which is credited to "The Jackie Boyz") but Lil Wayne's involvement is not made clear in the timeline. Strange, because this was originally leaked on THIS forum from someone who heard about it on a Lil Wayne forum or a site that was reporting it because of Lil Wayne (not because of Madonna, although it did identify the song as being hers, even though it was unclear whether her vocals were actually present or not on that little clip). It just seems odd -- I wonder if Madonna did write some of the verse lyrics earlier on but didn't record them because she was on tour or something? I don't know how she really could get a writing credit for cleaning up the pronunciation ("with your name" instead of "witchyurname" etc.) and changing "my looks can kill" to "if looks could kill". She did change the note of "'cause" in "you're an accessory to murder 'cause..." as well in the bridges leading up to the chorus. But it doesn't seem like that would really be significant enough a melodic change to warrant writing credit.

But... whatever. I'm rambling. Sorry...

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LOL. I didn't catch the bad edit in "Revolver". Now I'll have to listen. This is just crazy. Doesn't anyone listen to this stuff? What is up with Madonna and her bad edits? It really amazes me that these things get past quality control. Whoever is in charge of editing at the Warner Bros. headquarters seriously needs to be given a pink slip.

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Update: I just re-listened to the leak, and I don't hear him saying that.

Maybe you can hear it on the CD version? Some have said you can hear Madonna's vocals better in the actual release. (So I'm looking forward to that -- too bad it's more than a week before we get it in the U.S. I don't really understand that -- why it got moved up in so many other markets and yet we still have to wait in the U.S. Weird...)

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im so glad the internet was NOT around when i was growing up. i can only imagine the complaints about you can dance if the internet was around. and i love me some you can dance. fall of 1987 - summer of '88 baby!!!

Me too Pud! I was just saying that in the other thread about "Loving M", this immediate access to everything is not always so good, you never have the anticipation and appreciation of waiting - there's a lot to be said for "good things come to those who wait". As for YCD, I played the hell out of that when I first got it, I remember even bringing my large CD player to my job so I could hook it up and play it over the loud speakers on REPEAT again and AGAIN, I drove everyone nuts with the CCCCCCCCCCCC'cmon. ;-)

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Update: I just re-listened to the leak, and I don't hear him saying that.

Yeah, I'm not hearing it either. Played Lil Wayne's part from the demo a few times for a memory refresher, then went back again and listened to Madonna's version, and I'm just not hearing this stray "do."

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Posted this in the other thread and it applies here too:

As in any other situation, people should be making their own decisions. No one is taking a defiant stance in doing so. I simply sought to post a list of details regarding the contents of Celebration.

I enjoy and respect Madonna's body of work. If at times I seem a little passionate about its preservation, it's only because of that respect. That's not something to fault a fan for.

I will be purchasing the US pressings for all three items the week of release. As with anything I purchase, I will review them in their entirety and if there are technical problems with the discs, including those consistent with the issues present on the international pressings, then I will be contacting the label's customer service department. I encourage others to do so as well.

Very often they will investigate issues such as these and offer replacement discs once the errors have been corrected. As posted earlier, this very label recently had to correct New Order's entire remastered discography.

The packaging is stunning, possibly her best ever, but at the heart of this release is the music. I meant it when I said I feel it's a shame that some of the editing on Celebration has been handled haphazardly and that the mastering is not quite the 'exquisite' upgrade we were promised, but I would never want to detract from another fans enjoyment and that was never my intention.

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2:42, right after she says, EAT HOLE. and then at 3:57 there was supposed to be an additional hiccup but they totally forgot.

:rotfl:

this thread is hilarious :lmao:

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Rain,

I have another idea for you.

When the DVD of videos comes out, do you think it would be possible to do a remastered version of "Vogue" (album/video version) based upon the audio track from the DVD? After all, the sound on the DVD is supposed to be remastered too.

For those of us who long for a really good remastered version of "Vogue" (album version), that would great!

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

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