Guest bluejean Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 instead of blaming Warner Bros, blame Madonna because SHE HAS APPROVAL POWER in her releases! She almost always has. People don't understand that. Madonna isn't an audio engineer though, I doubt she even listened through the final thing. She would have sat down and had say over the tracklist, and left it in the hands of Warner to put it together. Since that's their job, not hers. Yes, she could have paid closer attention but she was most likely busy with the tour and keen to close off her business with Warner. I would guess Madonna would have wanted all album versions for all songs since those are the versions she would be most familiar with. Can we get someone like TheRain to do a fixed up version of Celebration and post it in the multimedia section. I know we aren't meant to post official released stuff, but I say in this case, stuff them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IJustFuctMadonna Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Uh, yeah. Madonna can't take a couple hours to review the final version of her DEFINITIVE career-spanning hits collection, which will define her as an artist until she dies. Oooookay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickens Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Can we get someone like TheRain to do a fixed up version of Celebration [the album] and post it in the multimedia section. That's what I was thinking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carta Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Um. Yeah. In this case, it happened A LOT. Obviously, nobody in M's camp gave a shit, otherwise they'd have directed people to the correct versions. I guess the issue is that the two most important people in this whole process were away on tour when the compilation was being finalised, so by the time they got back to the US, it done and dusted. Madonna and Guy would have (quite rightly) trusted others to make sure that everything was done properly, since the tour was obviously their #1 priority. No excuses, obviously, but it's something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Madonna isn't an audio engineer though, I doubt she even listened through the final thing. She would have sat down and had say over the tracklist, and left it in the hands of Warner to put it together. Since that's their job, not hers. Yes, she could have paid closer attention but she was most likely busy with the tour and keen to close off her business with Warner. Actually, that kind-of is her job. Even my pokey little band listened carefully to the reference CD after it was mastered before okaying the final release (and in the case of the third album had to send it back - twice). We learned our lesson after the label (Warners-owned at the time, come to think of it!) nearly released our second with some HUGE errors - and that was even mastered by Bob Ludwig, who's something of a legend in the industry. There's all kinds of factors that can go awry if you're not paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Even mixers and producers hardly ever master because it requires such skill. I would LOVE to hear Patrick Leonard's reaction to 'Express Yourself' or even 'Cherish' on Celebration You can be sure he'd be mortified. Same as Shep with 'Erotica.' And even though it's not their fault it could even reflect badly on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I read that review last night before I posted this thread, and the entire time I typed I thought: "Pud Whacker is going to quote Rob Sheffield. Pud Whacker is going to quote Rob Sheffield." i was riding out to the beach today and listening to hard candy. wow, i even dug 4 minutes. incredible is just wow - miles away, shes not me...voices - one that i just never paid attention to. anyway, point of that long rant is...once i get celebration, im sure ill have my complaints and one day on a nice drive, im sure ill dig the whole thing from beginning to end. i have all the songs. even the unreleased, as we all do. im not wasting any energy on this. im thrilled with the artwork - she finally got it right again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Uh, yeah. Madonna can't take a couple hours to review the final version of her DEFINITIVE career-spanning hits collection, which will define her as an artist until she dies. Oooookay. Look, I know you are right in a way. She should have cared enough and paid enough attention. But we just know she would have wiped her hands of the whole release once she'd selected the tracklisting and done the 2 new songs. She obviously left it with Warner to do it, and in all fairness it is THEIR responsibility and you would think they would have got professionals to edit the songs at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carta Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 No they didn't. There's 2 minutes space on disc 2. Had they used edits of Papa, Frozen, Take A Bow and Die Another Say (as they should have) there would be room for 1 more song. Had they used an edit of Holiday on disc 1 (as they should have), there would be room for the full versions of Like A Virgin and Ray Of Light. As for Cherish, are you kidding me that you can't tell how bad that cut is? What about Erotica? That is even worse. I know you are enjoying this project, and that's good for you, but I find it quite hard to believe that you can't notice those things or aren't bothered by them. It's not the same as being upset about the tracklisting, it's just plain unprofessional on Warner's part. And although I won't be having sleepless nights about it I agree with Mattress. Music, on the other hand, I can't notice any clicks either. I'll have to listen to "Cherish" again, because I haven't noticed the edit. "Erotica" was obvious, but it fits in with the beat, so it's not a jarring error (it's like they were editing the audio track of the middle Eastern singer and missed their cue, just for that one track - the rest of the music sounds like it should). I'm glad you don't have any clicks on "Music", bluejean! It must mean that my CD is faulty (easily rectified with a quick trip to the music store ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Actually, that kind-of is her job. Even my pokey little band listened carefully to the reference CD after it was mastered before okaying the final release (and in the case of the third album had to send it back - twice). We learned our lesson after the label (Warners-owned at the time, come to think of it!) nearly released our second with some HUGE errors - and that was even mastered by Bob Ludwig, who's something of a legend in the industry. There's all kinds of factors that can go awry if you're not paying attention. Okay well yes, it comes back to noone caring enough. Including Madonna. Obviously, their "remastering" and shoddy "editing" was done on a very low budget, and Madonna must have known that. We know Madonna doesn't care about this Greatest Hits as much as she would a studio album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 No they didn't. There's 2 minutes space on disc 2. Had they used edits of Papa, Frozen, Take A Bow and Die Another Say (as they should have) there would be room for 1 more song. Had they used an edit of Holiday on disc 1 (as they should have), there would be room for the full versions of Like A Virgin and Ray Of Light. Live to Tell also could've been an edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 i was riding out to the beach today and listening to hard candy. wow, i even dug 4 minutes. incredible is just wow - miles away, shes not me...voices - one that i just never paid attention to. Weren't there complaints about the mastering of Hard Candy as well? Especially on Voices with the loud bass. And I can't believe the American Life album had track indexing errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Okay well yes, it comes back to noone caring enough. Including Madonna. Obviously, their "remastering" and shoddy "editing" was done on a very low budget, and Madonna must have known that. We know Madonna doesn't care about this Greatest Hits as much as she would a studio album. I guess. But why wouldn't she? It kind of boggles my mind... It's a celebration, but someone shoulda sprung for more than just party hats, I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernatural Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 well even the DVD is just a few videos short of being complete which is fustrating but evidence that Warner probably doesn't want this release to be the be-all end-all. Probably less a mess than TIC which people have been happy to buy for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carta Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I would LOVE to hear Patrick Leonard's reaction to 'Express Yourself' or even 'Cherish' on Celebration You can be sure he'd be mortified. Same as Shep with 'Erotica.' And even though it's not their fault it could even reflect badly on them. Do you mean Steve Bray? He was Madonna's collaborator on EY (Pat did Cherish, though). I'm sure Pat would be happy with LAP - it sounds sublime! As for Madonna not having time to sit and listen to the album, I do buy that - after all, it was a release containing previously recorded material and she probably assumed that it would be handled properly. If it was a brand new album, as co-producer, she would have been involved to the last minute, but of course with a new album, she wouldn't be on tour while it was being mastered etc. I understand people's frustrations over edits, versions used etc. etc. Someone like Mattress spends a huge amount of time comparing and appreciating different versions of songs and for him, the collection should have been flawless...immaculate, if you will! For others, like neutronrocks, the edits don't detract from the overall impact of the collection. I suspect that for the vast majority of the millions who will buy this collection, this will be the case. That doesn't mean that people don't have the right to be upset, of course, because for a lot of people, those differences will (and do) matter. It's just a shame that Warners haven't managed to deliver a collection that could please *everyone* when this is clearly what Madonna and Guy would have expected from them (in terms of sound quality). At this stage, I'm loving the collection. Having different versions doesn't bother me (pops and crackles do, though!) and I actually like the fact that Erotica and Justify My Love overlap ever so slightly (given their similarities - I suspect that this was intentional). As an audiophile, Mattress (and most likely others) will be bitterly disappointed and won't get over that (I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, either - profound disappointment is hard to move past), whereas others won't care. Again, it's just a shame that Warners couldn't please everyone on a technical level. I suspect that Madonna will be disappointed, too. Hopefully everyone will enjoy this collection! Until Madonna signs off on a 4 CD collection that covers her entire singles output with Warners (I'm predicting sometime after her album deal with LN expires), "Celebration" will be her definitive collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 TOP SECRET PHOTOS OF THE MADONNA RECORD-RELEASE CELEBRATION AT WARNERS HQ - CONGRATULATIONS! 26 YEARS OF HITS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian John Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Are my ears deceiving me, or is "Dress You Up" a completely different mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian John Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Someone's gonna say it sooner or later anyway, so it might as well be me.... Is that Mariah on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 It is. And don't Madonna and Guy Oseary look pleased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Weren't there complaints about the mastering of Hard Candy as well? Especially on Voices with the loud bass. And I can't believe the American Life album had track indexing errors. yes, there were complaints regarding the mixing of hard candy from the fans. <-- insert eye roll. see i dont know - i just listen. once i wanted this song sooooooooooooooooo bad from madonna back in the late 80's/early 90's. this was back in the day of tapes and making them. well, i caught it once off a tv screen and just held a mic to the speaker and recorded it. my friend always laughed at me when we would play that tape and the song came on. that i loved it soooooooooo much and just HAD to hear it, the quality was secondary. i just needed it. oh, it was sooner or later from the oscars!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 see i dont know - i just listen. once i wanted this song sooooooooooooooooo bad from madonna back in the late 80's/early 90's. this was back in the day of tapes and making them. well, i caught it once off a tv screen and just held a mic to the speaker and recorded it. my friend always laughed at me when we would play that tape and the song came on. that i loved it soooooooooo much and just HAD to hear it, the quality was secondary. i just needed it. oh, it was sooner or later from the oscars!!! How fabulous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Do you mean Steve Bray? He was Madonna's collaborator on EY (Pat did Cherish, though). I'm sure Pat would be happy with LAP - it sounds sublime! Yes sorry, for some reason I'd forgotten Steve Bray did Express Yourself I always think Patrick Leonard when I think 'Like A Prayer' album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 How fabulous yeah, for that story alone, your fucking cheerleader better lose the dreary face and get to JUMPIN'''!!!~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carta Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 yes, there were complaints regarding the mixing of hard candy from the fans. <-- insert eye roll. see i dont know - i just listen. once i wanted this song sooooooooooooooooo bad from madonna back in the late 80's/early 90's. this was back in the day of tapes and making them. well, i caught it once off a tv screen and just held a mic to the speaker and recorded it. my friend always laughed at me when we would play that tape and the song came on. that i loved it soooooooooo much and just HAD to hear it, the quality was secondary. i just needed it. oh, it was sooner or later from the oscars!!! I did the same when "Like A Prayer" and "Vogue" were premiered in Australia! I video recorded them and then held a tape recorder up to the TV speaker (an old mono TV...!). I didn't care - I listened to those tapes on my Walkman dozens of times!!! I only had to wait five days to get the LAP single (and about two for it to be played on the radio). Ah, growing up in the 80s/90s.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 That's so funny, I did this as well. With loads of songs of TV and also live concerts so I could have the live versions. And then oneday my Dad got so over not being allowed to make noise in the background he bought a lead and hooked the VCR up to the tape recorder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian John Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I used to sit in front of the TV and record theme songs. Then, on weekends, I'd sit in front of the stereo in our dining room (which had a turntable and 8-track!), and record my fave songs from Casey's Top 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hard pedro Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 That's so funny, I did this as well. With loads of songs of TV and also live concerts so I could have the live versions. And then oneday my Dad got so over not being allowed to make noise in the background he bought a lead and hooked the VCR up to the tape recorder! And now I just wonder, was the mastering of Celebration SO BAD? We made miracles in the past to listen music and they were in REAL POOR quality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I did the same when "Like A Prayer" and "Vogue" were premiered in Australia! I video recorded them and then held a tape recorder up to the TV speaker (an old mono TV...!). I didn't care - I listened to those tapes on my Walkman dozens of times!!! I only had to wait five days to get the LAP single (and about two for it to be played on the radio). Ah, growing up in the 80s/90s.... of course, carta!!! omg, when the 1984 MTV music awards was on, we didnt have a VCR, dont think i didnt beg and beg my father to get one on a daily basis either. and, of course, the only reason i wanted it was to tape madonna. but anyway, they played it on radio simulcast? is that phrase right? i taped it, it was good radio quality and i brought that shyt on my walkman the next day to school and EVERYONE wanted to hear it. EVERYONE. 8th grade, Chaminade. oh, that was a great tape. it had the lisa robsinson interview on it (right before virign was released), the MTV like a virgin (still my favorite rendition of it - even over the album version or any other one, for that matter). oh yeah, i loved that tape. i left it at some nothings house. :mournstoday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrocks Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 No they didn't. There's 2 minutes space on disc 2. Had they used edits of Papa, Frozen, Take A Bow and Die Another Say (as they should have) there would be room for 1 more song. Had they used an edit of Holiday on disc 1 (as they should have), there would be room for the full versions of Like A Virgin and Ray Of Light. As for Cherish, are you kidding me that you can't tell how bad that cut is? What about Erotica? That is even worse. I know you are enjoying this project, and that's good for you, but I find it quite hard to believe that you can't notice those things or aren't bothered by them. It's not the same as being upset about the tracklisting, it's just plain unprofessional on Warner's part. And although I won't be having sleepless nights about it I agree with Mattress. Music, on the other hand, I can't notice any clicks either. Go back and you'll see I basically stated that as I noted a little more than 2 mins left between the two discs. And you're right they could have added another song if they used a different edit of the longer songs. But you know what, I really don't think they thought too much about the time, rather they were considering what songs they were going to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carta Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 FYI - the collection was mastered by Pat Kraus at WEA Studios in Los Angeles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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