Pat Leonard Article from 1991

[Nightshade]

Respecting himself After working with Madonna, Pat Leonard is on his own

Hugh Hart, a Chicago free-lance writer.. Chicago Tribune (pre-1997 Fulltext). Chicago, Ill.: Jan 13, 1991. pg. 3

Copyright Chicago Tribune Co. Jan 13, 1991

When Pat Leonard was kicked out of Park Ridge's Maine East High School in the mid-'70s, he was a rebellious teenager who thought everybody else had their heads screwed on backward.

"They didn't feel I was cooperating," he says. "It was too big a school to be a musician who didn't want to do anything but music. I figured, `All these people are jerks, and I'm a genius.' "

Fifteen years later, Leonard is having the last laugh. After being Madonna's musical alter ego for four years, the 34-year-old keyboardist-composer-producer has become one of the hottest behind-the-scenes music talents in Los Angeles.

"I'm over the Madonna thing and sick of hearing about it," he says by phone from his own 48-track recording studio in Los Angeles, where he lives with his wife and three children. "At some point, what she's doing crosses the line into sensationalism, and it's not art or entertainment anymore."

Still, Leonard says he's proud of the work he produced with her. While she has relied on other composers for most of her dance tracks, several of Madonna's most substantial songs, including "Like a Prayer" and the majestic "Live to Tell," have featured Leonard's soaring melodies.

For Madonna's albums "True Blue," "Like a Prayer" and "Dick Tracy," Leonard hired the musicians, programmed the tracks, played keyboards, wrote and arranged the music, and supervised the singing, but he felt left out of the final product.

"I'd get into the heat of writing with her, then at some point realize, `Wow, this isn't my record.' You wake up the next morning and hear a dance mix by someone you never met, it's kind of shocking. I felt a little like Dorothy in Oz; maybe I was a little naive. It's totally her right; it's her picture on the cover. But working with her, I learned the difference between what is my record and somebody else's."

These days, Leonard is more interested in talking about his band, Toy Matinee, whose debut on Warner/Reprise reflects his roots in the progressive rock sound he used to play in his first Chicago band, Trillion.

"The music that most influenced me was played by virtuosos whose songs expressed ideas and emotion," Leonard says. "From Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd all the way through Genesis, Gentle Giant and Jethro Tull, what turned me on about that music was a certain feeling of risk and adventure. Getting that feeling again is part of what this group is all about."

Replete with tempo changes, modulations, lots of chord changes and disparate styles ranging from clarinet swing band to baroque piano breaks, the album shows off Leonard's wide-ranging musical skills, which he has developed since he was a 3-year-old learning classical pieces by ear that his older sister played for him.

By age 9, Leonard was accompanying his saxophone-playing dad at gigs in Mundelein supper clubs. Around the time he left high school, Leonard formed Trillion, which released two records on Mercury. In 1982, he led an instrumental trio called Soft Machine. In the early '80s, Leonard fell into the lucrative advertising jingle scene after taking a crash course in sight reading music at Roosevelt University.

Leonard says that by 1984 he had "learned enough humility" and decided to move to Los Angeles. After three auditions he became not only keyboardist but also musical director for the Jacksons.

This career leapfrog was followed by another when Madonna's manager asked Leonard to put together her new show. "I wasn't interested at all," Leonard says. "To me she was just someone who rolled around in her underwear. But they said, `Just meet her.' So I did, and she was just so headstrong and focused. She said, `You can put the whole thing together.'" So Leonard relented and began writing songs with Madonna during her "Like a Virgin" tour.

Since breaking with Madonna in 1988, Leonard has been working on movie sound tracks, a solo instrumental pop-jazz album produced by Chick Corea, and collaborations with Robbie Robertson; Roger Waters (formerly of Pink Floyd); and a young singer named Schascle.

"I love working with people who are brilliant at what they do," Leonard says. "It's so exciting to read Roger Waters' lyrics, and to be able to help form this into something finished."

[Guest Danny86]

Thanks for posting!

It's kinda shocking, I knew he was pissed off with Shep remixing "Like A Prayer", but weird to see him disapproving of her "controversies".

I wonder what he thought when Madonna never wanted him to produce ROL... Didn't he hate "Skin" because according to him, Orbit and DeVries totally ruined his original version?

Also, musical director for the Jacksons before working with Madonna? Hardly some unknown/underground person then.

[Carta]

The article contains some interesting quotes from Pat, but the journalist has been unfair with his editorialising - it's clear he was aiming to downplay Madonna's role in her own work, which Pat has always been quick to praise in the past. A telling point is the comment that Madonna and Pat "broke" in 1988, even though they wrote and recorded IB in 1989 (and LAP wasn't even completed until January 1989).

There were whispers that Pat was unhappy about the LAP remixes, but they worked together after this in 1989, so it's not like they had a falling out. Pat was obviously referring to the controversy over JML, given the date of the article. In any case, they worked together again in 1994 (IR) and wrote and produced several tracks for ROL (although Pat was probably a little put out again that she decided to "dancify" their work together - WO himself said he was extremely nervous about fiddling with Pat's original version of "Frozen"). Then there's "Hello Suckers" less than five years ago. They may not have released anything together for a decade, but they've definitely worked together, which suggests that they still have a professional respect for each other. I'm sure Pat would check out her shows when they passed through LA!

[peter]

And, most recently, he did some of the scoring/soundtrack for "I Am Because We Are" -- so yes, I think they still have a professional respect for each other.

I do recall seeing his interview segments in the VH1 "Behind the Music" where he said that (I'm paraphrasing) that all the music around the time of the Like a Prayer album had a magical quality to it, but it was overshadowed by her controversies and imagery. So the quotes above don't really surprise me...

I didn't know he was upset about Shep ... nor had I ever heard he was upset about William Orbit and Marius! Yikes.

[Glindathegood]

I don't really understand his comments. Dance remixes are such a big part of the music industry no matter who you work with. Everyone has them, not just Madonna. As a professional, you'd think he'd understand that. The fact that someone remixes his songs doesn't undermine what he did, as his original productions were still released in their original form.

[lori]

Granted that some of Madonna's best work were her collaborations with Pat, but has he done anything else at par with his Madonna collaborations. I'm just wondering whether everyone is overestimating his skills as a songwriter and producer. I mean his work with Madonna was more than 20 years ago. Madonna has continued to make great music but I've not really heard of anything noteworthy that Pat has done outside of his work with Madonna. I'm not knocking Pat, just am unaware of his other work. Does anyone know what else he's done?

As far as their falling out is concerned, didn't he co-write Frozen and Nothing Really Matters with her. And he did the music for I Am Because We Are which was only last year so it seems that they still are in good terms.

[Guest bluejean]

It seems that he just expected more and it was unrealistic because Madonna had her own vision. And in this interview he's just aknowledging his naivety to have expected more, and then realising that she had her own agenda. He doesn't sound bitter, I think he realised it was fair enough but it just wasn't what he expected to happen.

[Etips]

I can understand Leonard's not appreciating Madonna turning over their work to Shep. House music, by and large, is shallow...and his reworking of "Like a Prayer" was a near desecration. Not every single needs to have a cliche 'dance remix.' And truth be told, the original album version of "Like a Prayer" is uptempo enough. Yeah, the beat momentarily drops out of the verses, but hook and climax of the song was perfectly danceable in its own right. Makes me wonder how Bray felt. Just about everything he did with Madonna got altered by Pettibone.

If Leonard is a man of pride/ego, I can see him not working with Madonna again. After Shep, and their brief reunion on "I'll Remember," he again saw their collaborations overhauled, this time by Orbit. After a while, he probably began to wonder if she wanted him for anything other than co-lyricist. Ultimately, though, every Madonna collaborator eventually is replaced (or overshadowed) by her latest find. He and Bray replaced Jellybean and Nile Rogers. That's just the cycle of how she works. Unless your name is Liz Rosenberg, career security being on Madonna's payroll is touch and go.

[Guest Danny86]

I don't really understand his comments. Dance remixes are such a big part of the music industry no matter who you work with. Everyone has them, not just Madonna. As a professional, you'd think he'd understand that. The fact that someone remixes his songs doesn't undermine what he did, as his original productions were still released in their original form.

But in the 80s, dance remixes were mostly extended remixes, that stayed true to the original version. I can see why Pat got surprised about Madonna turning "LAP" into a dance song. The promoted version was the Pat version anyway, just that Madonna used the Shep mix on the tour and then TIC (and not the original version anywhere, ever since). But Shep's dance remix of "EY" was the main version, promoted both on radio and tv and apparently Stephen Bray was offended and that's why he refused to work on I'm Breathless.

Granted that some of Madonna's best work were her collaborations with Pat, but has he done anything else at par with his Madonna collaborations. I'm just wondering whether everyone is overestimating his skills as a songwriter and producer. I mean his work with Madonna was more than 20 years ago. Madonna has continued to make great music but I've not really heard of anything noteworthy that Pat has done outside of his work with Madonna. I'm not knocking Pat, just am unaware of his other work. Does anyone know what else he's done?

It doesn't necessarily mean that he's overestimated. It's possible that he intentionally refused to work with any high profile pop artist, so he was not chasing the "hits" anymore. Also, in the 90s the trends were very different from his style of producing music, I can imagine there was no demand for him anymore. I think he did work with Jewel and Natalie Imbruglia in the 90s and Natasha Bedingfield in 2004, but not sure if any of his work with them were singles.

Pat scored the soundtrack of I Am Because We Are and indeed worked on the Hello Suckers! musical, but I don't believe he's ever gonna collaborate with Madonna on one of her main albums or anything, apart from some co-writing track here and there. Even on ROL, his role is overestimated, as he only co-wrote 4 songs out of 13.

[LoveBoxx]

Didn't Pat do the music for I Am Because We Are?

[Mattress]

I can understand Leonard's not appreciating Madonna turning over their work to Shep. House music, by and large, is shallow...and his reworking of "Like a Prayer" was a near desecration. Not every single needs to have a cliche 'dance remix.' And truth be told, the original album version of "Like a Prayer" is uptempo enough. Yeah, the beat momentarily drops out of the verses, but hook and climax of the song was perfectly danceable in its own right. Makes me wonder how Bray felt. Just about everything he did with Madonna got altered by Pettibone.

But! Shep Pettibone also made a great 12" version based on the original version (beat-drop-outs and all) and was responsible for the superior mix of Patrick Leonard's original arrangement for the 7" single. Bill Bottrell handled a few addtional mixes that are still close to sound of the original. The point is there were plenty of options presented to DJ's and consumers through the many promotional and commercial releases, not just the one. In fact, there is just one dance remix on the single compared to the four that stick to Leonard's sound. So, boofuckinghoo, Patrick. DJ's (and Madonna) liked the dance mix.

The 12" Dance Mix of "Like A Prayer" was actually Madonna's first "cliche' dance remix" and actually helped set a new standard for the kinds of dance floor reworkings that mainstream artists and labels commissioned. She laid the foundation for the cliche'. This led to the excellent remixes of "Express Yourself" and "Keep It Together, and more importantly to one of her biggest hits, "Vogue".

Madonna obviously liked Shep's sound, but it's tempting to say that she performed his house arrangements on tour and allowed their inclusion on her first greatest hits due to their sonic link to "Vogue". All of these decisions occured over a few short months during 1990 while "Vogue" was an absolute phenomenon, she didn't have another song like it to cull from I'm Breathless and she wasn't slated to record a new album.

Regardless, this relationship spawned their collaborations on The Immaculate Collection, "This Used To Be My Playground" and Erotica. You can even thank Shep for helping plant the seed for "Secret". Well worth any "hurt feelings" on Leonard's part.

As for Stephen Bray, his remixes of "Keep It Together" appeared right alongside Shep's on the single.

[Guest Danny86]

As for Stephen Bray, his remixes of "Keep It Together" appeared right alongside Shep's on the single.

Yeah, but that was one remix among like 5 versions of Shep's remix. The main single and the BAT versions were also based on Shep's mix.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Didn't Pat do the music for I Am Because We Are?

no, that was pharrel which shows madonnas REAL participation.

----

listen ive said it before and ill say it three thousand more times. pat leonard is the whatever. and as far as im concerned, that attitude up there comes across in his dreary compositions.

if were harkening back, give me funky bray any day.

[Mattress]

But in the 80s, dance remixes were mostly extended remixes, that stayed true to the original version. I can see why Pat got surprised about Madonna turning "LAP" into a dance song. The promoted version was the Pat version anyway, just that Madonna used the Shep mix on the tour and then TIC (and not the original version anywhere, ever since). But Shep's dance remix of "EY" was the main version, promoted both on radio and tv and apparently Stephen Bray was offended and that's why he refused to work on I'm Breathless.

I am sure it was more along the lines of 'he wasn't asked'.

Ignoring You Can Dance, of the singles co-written/produced by Stephen Bray only three were exclusively remixed by Shep; "True Blue," "Causing A Commotion" and "Express Yourself". Shep Pettibone made extended mixes maintaining the integrity of the original arrangements for all three.

[Guest Danny86]

no, that was pharrel which shows madonnas REAL participation.

I think you're confusing it with "Hey You"!

[Guest Pud Whacker]

I think you're confusing it with "Hey You"!

oh yes, i am. im stoned. as usual.

oh that i am because peter gabriel is soundtrack was again whatever...

[Mattress]

Yeah, but that was one remix among like 5 versions of Shep's remix. The main single and the BAT versions were also based on Shep's mix.

Shep did two mixes... one that sounds like the album arrangement and the very-Soul-II-Soul-"Back-To-Life" remix. Both were available on promotional and commercial releases for DJ's and consumers (including Steve and Pat ) to choose from.

[Guest Danny86]

I am sure it was more along the lines of 'he wasn't asked'.

Of the singles cowritten/produced by Stephen Bray only three were exclusively remixed by Shep; "True Blue," "Causing A Commotion" and "Express Yourself". Shep Pettibone made extended mixes maintaining the integrity of the original arrangements for all three.

Don't forget "Into The Groove" on YCD/TIC, fans often say that "Shep took out the R&B of the track".

But for "EY", even if there was the Local Mix, it's the Non-Stop Express Mix and it's various editions that got popular, Stephen's funky arrangement was completely overshadowed. It was just probably disappointing for Stephen, and by then he earned enough royalties from all the hits to be able to say no to Madonna. He might have not been asked for I'm Breathless, but there was still that "Get Over" track done around 1990, no? Or was it an outtake and they never really met in the studio after 1988?

Shep did two mixes... one that sounds like the album arrangement and the very-Soul-II-Soul-"Back-To-Life" remix. Both were available on promotional and commercial releases for DJ's and consumers (including Steve and Pat ) to choose from.

I meant the edit, instrumental etc. for 5 versions, I think the maxi-single has 5-6 tracks but only the 12" Mix is credited to Stephen Bray.

[Mattress]

Don't forget "Into The Groove" on YCD/TIC, fans often say that "Shep took out the R&B of the track".

But for "EY", even if there was the Local Mix, it's the Non-Stop Express Mix and it's various editions that got popular, Stephen's funky arrangement was completely overshadowed. It was just probably disappointing for Stephen, and by then he earned enough royalties from all the hits to be able to say no to Madonna. He might have not been asked for I'm Breathless, but there was still that "Get Over" track done around 1990, no? Or was it an outtake and they never really met in the studio after 1988?

I meant the edit, instrumental etc. for 5 versions, I think the maxi-single has 5-6 tracks but only the 12" Mix is credited to Stephen Bray.

He got his little "Bonus Beats" onto the 12".

[Apples388]

Shep gets such a bad rep with the fans, I don't get it. He's really underrated. Some people only seem to focus on the Immaculate remix versions and Erotica and hold that against him personally. You may not like his work but it's not like he had the final word on what goes on in the compilation or forced Madonna to promote Erotica with SEX and come across as an oversexed power freak. Those were all her own choices.

[Mattress]

Shep gets such a bad rep with the fans, I don't get it. He's really underrated. Some people only seem to focus on the Immaculate remix versions and Erotica and hold that against him personally. You may not like his work but it's not like he had the final word on what goes on in the compilation or forced Madonna to promote Erotica with SEX and come across as an oversexed power freak. Those were all her own choices.

[cosmic_system]

Mattress I so need a list of your fav official remixes!

[horn]

I think Pat's original version of Frozen, Skin, NRM & SFH may sound "too pop" and couldn't fit in ROL album. The final version of Skin sounds shit but it fits the album's theme.

[Guest Danny86]

listen ive said it before and ill say it three thousand more times. pat leonard is the whatever. and as far as im concerned, that attitude up there comes across in his dreary compositions.

if were harkening back, give me funky bray any day.

But isn't it funny they are responsible for 2 of Madonna's worst songs, Bray for "Jimmy Jimmy" while Patrick for "Love Makes The World Go Round".

For some reason though, I find Stephen Bray's work on Who's That Girl better, "Causing A Commotion" & "Can't Stop" are fun and cool songs, while the other 2 by Pat were more interested in trying to recapture the True Blue magic, and of course failing in that...

[cosmic_system]

Oh, so now Skin sucks?

[funkydita]

Shep gets such a bad rep with the fans, I don't get it. He's really underrated. Some people only seem to focus on the Immaculate remix versions and Erotica and hold that against him personally. You may not like his work but it's not like he had the final word on what goes on in the compilation or forced Madonna to promote Erotica with SEX and come across as an oversexed power freak. Those were all her own choices.

Exactly and his dance music history is impressive, he's the real deal. Besides the fact that Erotica is immense.

[MaddysMuff]

Well, yeah. "Skin" is so overrated. I don't get the big deal. Some decent lyrics, but aside from that, it's a track I could never listen to again and be fine with.

[Apples388]

I change my mind often on "Skin" but at the moment I love it.

I'm not like this all the time

I'm not like this all the time

I'm not like this all the tiiiiiiiiiiiiii-iiiiiime

[cosmic_system]

I just adore Skin.

[GimmeSomeMo]

Skin is AMAZING and I've been praying for its inclusion on tour.