neutrocks
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Posts posted by neutrocks
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This is hilarious... especially when she keeps repeating "What's that Guy's name?" and "that GUY!" when referring to her ex-husband. I'm sure she had no idea what his name was, but funny/clever nevertheless even though she was saying his name all along. It was like she purposely was saying it that way.
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Well, apparently William regrets even posting what he did that started this topic. He apologized last night on FACEBOOK for even bringing it up. That all said, I feel that William was just expressing his frustration since his last huge effort with Madonna went swimmingly well, and now that he was back (somewhat) in the driver seat again with this one, it didn't pan out as successful as I'm sure he was hoping.
Also, Carta (earlier in this thread) has basically expressed what some of us have been saying all along regarding Madonna doing promotion. It wasn't really until RAY OF LIGHT that she started doing more promotional interviews. Keep in mind, she was three albums in her career before she appeared on any popular late night show (which was Johnny Carson at the time) and SNL. The rest was all MTV and relying on radio and the music buyers. Even back then, she didn't tour conventionally as most artists would release an album and immediately go out on the road to support it. Madonna never really did that until HARD CANDY. Yes, the times were different, but I'm not sure where people get this idea that Madonna was this promotional whore where she'd go on countless interviews and do TV. In fact, I still believe AMERICAN LIFE is probably the only album she did more TV and Radio interviews as well as some promotional gigs before touring, but that didn't help the album anymore. She again kinda repeated that formula for HARD CANDY and even hit the radio circuit even harder... more than she ever did in her whole career, and yet that album is one of her worst selling albums. Of course, some fans will say... "but yes, those were her worst albums". Hmmm? I guess that's subjective, but with all the bitching and moaning lately from some that Madonna is not producing a lot of artistic music, when she did stray away from the usual pop sound (AMERICAN LIFE)... it seems the fan base rejected it.
All this talk that she's spending too much time on other projects rather her music is bullocks!!! Ummm... what do you think she's been doing since the beginning of this year... and even before that? First it was rehearsing effortlessly for the SUPERBOWL. And ever since February, she's been working on her TOUR which is HER MUSIC. So it seems to me the time she took out to do a couple of cloth line appearances and the perfume debut, is far less time spent than all the time she's been focusing on her MUSIC tour. And if you wish to throw in WE... then by all means go ahead, but remember that film was originally intended to be released last year, but it was WEINSTIEN (sp?) who decided to move the opening date to coincide with the Super Bowl exposure. And of course, she took some time out to do some interviews for that film. It's a fairly new venture for her. Whether you like it or not, I think we're going to see more ventures like this because in the end... the Madonna I fell in love with, wasn't just a music Icon... it was the entertainer I appreciated. She's always had side projects that somehow coincided with ehr music releases. And even though, most of her films flopped, I still loved that she was on the big screen. Though, now she wants to create the story rather play it out. Seems more suitable for her, ever more than ever since she is getting older and she's becoming less appealing to the newer music generations. Directing, writing...that's far more artistic and creative than just showing up to play a part.
The bottom line, even after thirty years... even after all the side projects, she's still one of most prolific and popular entertainers out there in the music industry. Sure, MDNA didn't sell RAY OF LIGHT numbers. But looking at the music climate today, she's still keeping up since her album is still among the top 5 selling albums of the year. That may change as the year progresses, but if you look... most people are struggling to sell even a million copies of their albums anymore. So yeah, she could do IDOL or a few of the popular TV shows to sell a few more albums, but the fact is... it's all about touring anymore. Kinda full circle since that is how it use to be among majority of artists.... release an album and them go on tour, where the artists makes profit off of tickets and merchandise. Meanwhile, they can spend MONTHS on the road performing their MUSIC!!!!!! But yeah, she's hardly focused on her music anymore.
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So yeah, I originally wasn't too keen on the song, but it's really grown on me too. And the more I think about it, it probably could be a cool radio single... that's if radio was willing to play it.
I love this video accompanying the song...
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That would be a brilliant idea if M wasn't so cheap. To say she wanted to do it for free is annoying and a sure way for him to not want to do it. I don't understand why Interscope isn't providing more of an initial push for her. She is the biggest selling artist of all time...hmmmm maybe there too busy with Gaga and her cutout cardboard castle.
Do you really think she's that cheap? I mean... I'm sure the TOUR is quite expensive. I think that's where a lot of money is going to. And she did pour money into two great videos. That isn't "cheap" either. As for her comment about Tarentino doing it for free... I suspect that was more in jest. But yeah, I do agree that INTERSCOPE should push her more. But if you think about it, they already got their money back from this album just from the U.S. sales alone... if it's true they paid her a million upfront.
With the Internet, traditional radio really isn't that big a deal anymore. Internet radio plays a lot of club mixes rather than the single mix.
And having a club hit that's actually released as a single makes a big difference. Take "Why's It So Hard?" from Erotica, a non-single. Or nearly any Madonna non-single, for that matter. If there's a "Shep's Club Dub Mix" for those I'd appreciate someone pointing me in that direction cuz I never saw one. Actual singles spawn remix collections.
But again, that only appeals to DIE HARD FANS.
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Smart move. I'm starting to think we might actually see a "Love Spent" release after all.
And so what if it doesn't get played on the radio? Lots of ppl don't listen to radio, you know. She might very well have a nice underground club hit, where she's been sorely missed. And I'm not talking about mainstream drug parties w/ crappy DJs wearing mouse heads. No self-respecting DJ would play the remixes to GGW (short of Nissam's maybe) and CERTAINLY not GAYLUV. Sucky butt remixes if there was ever. Gang Bang.. different story.. w/ proper remixes and given the quality of the track to begin w/..dance wise.. it'll hardly be a problem.
So what's the point in releasing it as a 'single' then? An "underground club' doesn't need to wait for a song to become a 'single' to show any appreciation to it. In fact, there are many clubs which play songs from albums (if not usually an unofficial remix).
I don't object to "Gang Bang" being a single, but in all honestly, I don't see the point. If you're simply wanting the song to go to clubs with mixes, a single isn't needed for that. And while I suspect people would probably dance away to it, the song seems a little bit awkward to play in a dance club. regarding its lyric content... no matter how you mix it. Not that I think that would stop it from being played in clubs nor do I think it should.... it's just my opinion. After all, the song is already getting some spins in a few clubs.
You mentioned "who listens to radio"? Well, I guess we can say the same regarding clubs... "who goes to clubs?" I'm sure more people listen to the radio then go to clubs for the most part. So again, what's the point of releasing it as a single? Clubs don't really reach a large enough audience to make much of an impact for most songs. Not saying it never happens, but let's look back at the promotional mixes/singles that were serviced to clubs? Who really hears them other than the die hard fans or club goers which I think reach a far smaller audience than radio or the internet.
Singles are meant to appeal to the general masses. They are usually released with intention to reach non to casual fans in hopes they will buy the song if not the album it accompanies. Singles usually do not stray from what the general population is comfortable in hearing which is why some will construe such songs are "generic" or what not. Singles are usually serviced to top 40 (or something equivalent)... whether that is radio or some other media outlet that maximizes the most exposure if not sales which now a days is either online sources and/or DIGITAL stores such as ITUNES and AMAZON.
Again, I don't have an issue with "Gang Bang" being a single. If anything, it should definitely have an accompanied video with the song. But do I think by releasing it as a single, it will bring anymore awareness to the album? Probably not. Most media outlets will not play the song including radio. And I know you and many others think "who cares about radio", but believe it or not, it still is a huge medium that reaches a lot of people. Other than that, as a non single, the song can be easily accessed on line whether that is downloading it from several digital stores or accessing the song through many unofficial youtube videos or other social networking sites.
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If that is what he is conveying then I am puzzled. He couldn't do anything but freak out on Twitter the whole time last year about how awesome everything was going. The first hint of disappointment from him comes when the album tanks on the charts? Either IT IS about the money for him or he simply wanted more industry recognition (i.e. another big Grammy winner like ROL). I wanted a blockbuster album as well, but let's face it...it's not going to be. What we can look forward to is a great album being brought to life on the stage in a matter of two weeks! Creatively, this era is a huge success IMO.
In all fairness, he was responding to a fan who was looking for the album to chart longer and the singles to be more successful. I'm sure he was hoping the album would have fair half as good as RAY OF LIGHT or MUSIC. But I agree, it's just not going to be a "blockbuster album". Also, I agree this era is "creatively... a huge success". It's all about the tour now.
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I am kind of confused by this reaction. If it has nothing to do with money (ergo, how successful the record was) then why is he upset? It's a brilliant album, even if it doesn't end up in the Top 10 best selling albums of the year (which it very well may). I certainly agree it wasn't promoted well enough, but that is the commercial aspect, not the creative.
Yeah, that was my thought as well when reading it. It's a great album nevertheless. But did I expect Madonna was going to come back with a commercially successful album? Certainly not! Her commitments lie with LIVE NATION... touring. And it's not like she's been lying around doing nothing. She's been working her ass off. There is a lot of vision and creativity going into the tour. It seems to me Madonna is looking to provide a live experience for her FANS. It's very much what U2 is doing and has been doing. It's been working very well for them. A tour of 22 to 25 songs is much more exciting to me than any TV interview or one off promotional performance.
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I was there for Confessions too!! You, groovyguy and me could've partied it up afterward!! lol
Maybe I was in a bad section or something but was that audience not horrible?? She had to pull teeth practically to get them to show some enthusiasm. NATURALLY I was LOONED UP (and maybe a little intoxicated) and I guess since I was the only one screaming and singing around me, the people in front of me just turned and gave me a look of disgust. Fuck them hoes....I paid $400 and fucking MADONNA is in front of me!! I'm gonna get a lil crazy!
I guess I didn't pay much attention, but now that you mentioned it, the audience was a bit stuffy. I was sitting right up by the extended stage where she performed LIKE A VIRGIN. She was right above us. It was so awesome. But I do recall some bitch spilling their beer on us. They were bitching about the lack of air once the show started as well not hearing enough of the older hits. LOL!
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I agree. Luv MSG for the audience. But AC does feel more intimate and luv the fantastic view of the stage.
Yeah, I went to AC for Confessions. I loved the intimate feel it had. It's a great venue.
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It's cute. I like it, but of course the final is FAR MORE SUPERIOR. This is a fluffier/friendlier version. If I recall, MIKA complimented Madonna and was amazed how different the final version from the one he worked on. Glad it leaked.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc_Z3iSpu54&feature=relmfu
Wow! What a difference. I now see what Mika was talking about how the version he worked on changed completely. I like this version as well. Almost a whole different song. Not as gritty and bad ass though! -
Q: WTF Happened... ?
A: Calendar changed from 1986 to 2012.
Listen, Madonna is a lioness in winter. She's retired from the life of hit-maker. The thing is -- she seems to have accepted this, while her hardcore fan base rails against it.
The swell of "This is the next 'Ray of Light' comeback" or "This is the next 'Like a Prayer' masterpiece" that fans have built-up ahead of every album release in the past decade is naive. In the U.S., she's had four top ten hits in the past 10 years. She enjoyed more success internationally -- and in Europe especially -- but still nothing like she experienced in the 80s and 90s. (The brief exception being the "Confessions" era in Europe, which was undeniably huge.)
Madonna doesn't seem terribly concerned with being the biggest star in the world anymore. She seems much more content with charity work, films, other pet projects, and touring. And she is in good company doing just that -- alongside Prince, the Rolling Stones, and quite a few more.
Just be happy that she gave us a fantastic new album. I was dearly worried that it would be another stinker along the lines of "American Life" or "Hard Candy."
BINGO!! -
Why do you persist in attacking people with this drivel? It was perfectly reasonable question.
I come to this forum to discuss Madonna and the various facets of her career. It's a forum, not a lamb fest!
Once again, I find myself having to say to someone, if you don't like the post, go and read another.
We know you've accepted that it's all the touring, we know what you think. Five fucking paragraphs some times when one sentence would do. I Don't Care! If you can't enter into a discussion with anything of merit, go to another post and talk about her hair colour.
You know, it really is a two way street. First of all, I didn't attack. I didn't tell you to stop voicing your opinions. I also didn't insult how you chose to write your response, nor attack you for the length of your reply. Furthermore, we can say we all know what you think as well since you've repeatedly carried on and on about how disappointed you are with the singles, promotions, charts, sales, the way Madonna wipes her ass, etc and seem to be a complete Debby Downer most of the time.
I do offer much merit to the discussion. Obviously, you don't agree with my opinions. Instead of just agreeing to disagree or making a mature counter argument, you resort to demeaning others for writing more than a sentence or two.
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I can't quite understand what they expect to do with the filming of the tour. The tours nearly sold out, there's very lttle music television. Who's actually going to show it or anything more than clips? I wonder if they think the general public will flock to youtube to watch it?
Why not just enjoy what's to come, rather dissect every little move they make. I swear, you seem to be obsessed with the promotion, chart and sales success more than Madonna rather than just enjoying the music. I mean; what does it matter to you? Will your world crumble if Madonna doesn't get a hit single or album from this point on, or if she doesn't do promotion the way you want her to do? Why not accept that this is all for the benefit of all her current fans? It's clear to me the main focus is the tour and merchandising as well as the TV/DVD deal that will follow. It's always good to have promotional videos/cuts from the concert to use for future ads for DVD release as well as a future broadcast.
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Confessions is renaissance Madonna
This is the second time I read you writing this 12:51 and I couldn't agree more. It's the perfect word to reference this era. 
When I stop to think in this flop again I get really angry. Last year we all were dreaming about a huge comeback, with hit singles and explosive album sales (at least I was). Because it was a four-year hiatus, all the gaga stuff and finally the Super Bowl. I don't get it. I know about the TOURING being most important for her now, it was made very clear on the forum, but I just don't understand why the 2005/2008 type of promo is not suitable anymore.
She was 47 and 49, this is old too! I don't see the big difference to 53. Old is old! I don't buy the ageism as a reason to whats happenning. If you see the statistics on GMAYL video, you're gonna find out that the major audience is female 13-17. This speaks a lot. Madonna is reaching new and younger fans and they don't seem to care her age. So why she's not promoting?
Don't confuse the two. It's not that she is "too old" for such promotion. The lack of promotion was just a different strategy she and her manager decided to take after the huge Superbowl performance. Where "ageism" comes in is when radio or other media outlets aren't willing to play her stuff. I mean; c'mon... "Girl Gone Wild" is exactly the type of song that is being played on radio. It should have been a hit, but if radio isn't going to give it a go, then it's not going to gain much interest. Also, our society IS definitely ageist to especially FEMALE entertainers. You cannot deny it. What happened 4 to 8 years ago doesn't matter. In fact, if you really look at her last successful single, it was a song that many fans will agree that featured Justin Timberlake more than Madonna. That song did as well as it did, because it had TWO HUGE fan bases supporting it. Not only that, you could even throw in the TIMBALAND fanbase as well. I don't think some here are taking that in account. If Madonna alone came out with that song, it wouldn't have done as well. The proof comes with the follow up single which went no where. "Give It 2 Me" is a decent song. Warners didn't give the push that it should have had for radio and Madonna was heading out on tour by the time that song was released.
Again, I think you and others are putting too much stake into "promotion". Such promotion takes time and money which isn't good business sense at a time that most artists are struggling to even sell the amount MDNA has done world-wide. It makes sense to focus on the tour where the real money is being made.
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I think passion is a stupid word to use anyway. Obviously she's not going to be in Ray Of Light/Divine Inspiration mode every single time she makes an album. It's just not realistic, as all artists fluctuate in what is inspiring or informing their work at any given point. It's not that easy, mind you. But it doesn't mean they love what they do any less. Was she in SUPER INSPIRATION GROUNDBREAKING MODE when she made True Blue, an album that came at the height of her popularity and the height of her ambitiousness? Or was she just in the mood to make music that propelled her to wanna perform? She can't be pressured to be experimental and GRITTY & RAW with every single album. On MDNA she definitely seemed driven by a lot of anger and defiance and that comes through in the lyrics and the music too. She doesn't have to feel obligated to reinvent the wheel in order to make a compelling album. Confessions is not an original or experimental album in the least, and yet it's considered somewhat of a renaissance record for her. On the flipside, Madonna was extremely driven by this need to SAY things and deep experimentation with American Life, and it wound up being the album that put a wrench in her very consistent momentum.
It's not passion we should be discussing, it's approach. Her approach may have been more experimental on Ray Of Light, and as a result it may be a more accomplished album because of the risk taking that paid off, but it's also not as emotionally varied as say, MDNA or Music. The point is: MDNA is by no means a sidenote album. Hell, not even Hard Candy or American Life were. She has yet to make one of those. For an example of an artist who has done that numerous times, look no further than Fanet Fackson.
Agreed. Also, I'm completely content if Madonna does not score another huge hit or doesn't make it on radio. The "momentum" is there for me which is what this topic was originally questioning. Sure, I'd love to see her get many more huge hits, but unfortunately, we live in a society which doesn't appreciate older artists in TOP 40 radio.That said, it doesn't lack any "momentum".
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Rihanna doesn't even write. She very well could have just been popping in & out of hte studio the entire 9 months between her crazy promo tour to lay down vocals. Which would support his theory. It's a different ballgame when you don't even write your own music.
Who cares if she didn't write the music! It still doesn't mean she didn't put any heart and soul into the project, but that's irrelevant since my main argument is about MADONNA not Rhianna. I just can't believe ANYONE really thinks Madonna just lacked any interest or passion in MDNA. LOL!
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The fact is, artists DO sometimes slap things together and not care about the quality of their output. Maybe Rihanna isn't a good example, maybe she spent 9 months on her shitty album and thought it was really good. It's beside the point.
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Love (spent) will save the day
I wish, but I don't think the song is catchy enough for commercial acceptance. But who knows?
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Well actually, I do like her previous work. I am referring to her CURRENT album, and I am using her as an example to disagree with your statement that you can't imagine any artist slapping an album together and not caring about it or putting their all into it. I can, it happens all the time. They have deadlines to meet and contracts to fulfill, its not always a labour of love and total perfectionism.
But you're only making assumptions she "slapped it together". How can you be sure that she didn't care? In fact, from further reading, it seems she started working on her latest album in February of 2011 and finished it in November. Sorry, but NINE MONTHS... and you think she just "slapped it together". Madonna recorded some of her best albums in less time. Originally, the idea was going to be a "re-issue" of Rhianna's "Loud" album with new tracks, but she obviously felt inspired to create a whole new album of material. Of course, there are plenty of deadlines in any profession and yes even in the music industry. But again, I am not here to debate other artists interest or passion in music since my main argument was based on the claims some think Madonna lacks interest or what not.
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No, me neither.
I can. Especially people like Rihanna. You can just hear it.
Or maybe you're just not a fan of her work. That's your opinion. And you're welcome to it. Hell, I don't even really listen to her. I have no interest to. Though, I don't believe she has no interest in making music or lacks passion for it. I'm not saying that artists don't have creative lows, but again that is subjective unless the artist admits to having those times. But this isn't about Rihanna and I'm not going to play the game of bashing other artists because I may not dig their style, music or sound.
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Oh good gawd, I can't believe some are actually questioning her "passion" or she's lost interest in making music... WTF??? That's just utter bullshit. Whatever one may think of MDNA, it's obviously one's opinion. Like it or not, it isn't something she half-haphazardly put together without much thought. It's the same with any of her albums. That's just silly. I can't imagine any musician really doing that when they are putting together an album. Obviously, some albums aren't as great as others, but it certainly doesn't mean an artist has lost interest in the music because some fans don't find it to be their best work or because it's not generally accepted by the public. Also, no one spends more than three months rehearsing for a tour which features new music from their latest album, without having some passion or interest. Hell, she's planning to "slackline" while performing. Please, c'mon! "No interest in her music"??? Madonna is about to embark on one of her longest and most likely most expensive and most grossed tour to date. The fact she's taking this tour on the road for more than three months says a lot for her "interest" in her music. This is a woman who has said many times in the past, she quickly tires of performing her old songs. No doubt, it will be grueling for her to keep performing these songs night after night, knowing she's a perfectionist and gets easily bored after performing the same thing over and over.
Say what you want... believe what you want, but to actually think Madonna has "lost interest in making music" is just utter bullshit. Even with the lack of promotion, you can see all the effort and passion she's put in the songs and the videos and surely the tour. Good gawd, some of you are quite mental over this whole idea that she's lost her passion because she isn't out peddling her album on QVC, AMERICAN IDOL, or what not. Even with the lack of promotion, she's still been quite visible and active within the public eye. It may not be up to your standards of how an artist should promote, but people still know she's making music and touring. In the end, her commitments are to touring. And yes, TOURING IS THE ULTIMATE promotion, whether it sells anymore albums or not. TOURING is part of the whole music making process. Has been for years and years... an artist makes an album and then they go out on tour, performing songs from the album. It may not be like the old days where the albums benefit, but these days... especially for Madonna, it's the tour that generates the income.
Honestly, some of you need to quit making all these nonsensical assumptions and just enjoy the music. If an album has to be accepted by the general public or produce top 40 hits, to be a good album, then obviously you've not heard a good album because some of the best albums are not always the biggest selling albums or has produced huge hits.
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I'm sorry, but some of you guys really need to move on from this idea that each time she releases an album it's going to be the next ROL in terms of her "coming back" and having some sort of massive surge in her popularity amongst the general public. The only thing that is going to help Madonna get to the level of popularity she once had is a time machine. She's accepted that, you guys need to as well. If that is something that is required for you to enjoy her or if you just can't take the fact that the general public won't get to "evidence her brilliance" at the level they once did, then you should move on.
Those of you trying to label MDNA as immature don't have a clue, she has made a perfectly well balanced and "age appropriate" pop album. Some of you are just grasping for straws to try to find reasons WHY the general public just isn't interested. If you really think about it without "loon blinders" on, it's obvious she's been on a commercial decline since her "resurgence" with ROL was over. Had ROL not happened what we are experiencing now, probably would've happened 10 years ago. When you add in the fact that the music industry itself is on it's death bed and her age (and some of you who deny that has a factor REALLY need to get a clue), it's simply unreasonable to have the expectations some of you have for her commercially. Can't you all see?? As time progresses here, things are starting to come full circle. She started off with a small, hardcore fan base and she will end with a smaller (in comparison to her peak...obviously more than the very early days) but very devoted fan base. The casual fans may not be as interested in her new work, but she will continue to have their interest in her as a live performer for a while it seems.
That's an aspect that some of you take for granted. While your bitching that GGW hasn't reached the top 10 and isn't getting played and that MDNA is plummeting down the charts you are completely ignoring that people outside of "us" (the diehards) are willing to shell out $400 to see this woman perform live at 53 years old.....WITHOUT even knowing much about her "current" music (by current I mean anything from this MILLENNIUM practically). That's pretty fucking powerful and while it's very popular around here to make fun because with her it's "all about THE TOUR...she doesn't care about promo"....well, THE TOUR is a main factor in what has been keeping her brand so incredibly powerful for nearly the last decade now. While 4M was massive, we have JT to thank partially for that....while HU is a classic Madonna song, it didn't really catch on in America....the last time she was at her absolute "peak level" worldwide commercially was with the song Music. That's now been 12 years ago. The decline has been happening since then. She's smart in focusing on where she is wanted which is on THE STAGE.
Damn!!!! Thank gawd, someone here gets it. Thank you.
I couldn't have said it any better myself. Though, if I did. I'd get blasted for writing an "essay". -
I thought how it was interesting how they used "Falling Free" in that piece as if it was actually part of the movie. Thanks for posting. Good to see they gave props to her new album as well. 'Kill two birds with one stone.'
William Orbit's Thoughts on MDNA
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
Posted
Nope, I think I made myself perfectly clear, so please ignore me since it's obvious you have an issue with anyone having anything significant to say past a sentence or two... thank you very much...