neutrocks
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Posts posted by neutrocks
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I agree, American Life is definitively her most underrated album, it's such a masterpiece too. I don't know about Bedtime Stories, i like some of the songs (mostly the singles) but it's the only Madonna album i can't really get into. Probably because soft R&B is my least favorite musical genre, i find it boring to death.
So you're basing "underrated" by what you like, rather what is a perception from the general public. I still think "Bedtimes Stories" is probably very underrated. If you ask casusal or non-fans what Madonna albums they remember, I am certain "Bedtime Stores" wouldn't be a popular recall. While "Erotica" could easily be called underrated regarding the general acceptance and sales, but at least many people from that time could reflect back now and recall what some may dub has her "sex" album. "Bedtime Stories" was an album that went by pretty unnoticed even though, "Take A Bow" was a huge radio song in the U.S. The success of the song certainly didn't help generate much sales for both the song and album it came from.
I guess I see "underrated" as something that isn't generally remembered, critically acclaimed and/or well received by the general public, rather something I dislike. After all, there are plenty of hughly successful songs, films and other art out there I don't necessarily like, yet I can't say it's "underrrated". For instance, I'm not a huge fan of "Like A Virgin" the song and album, but just because I don't dig it as much as compared to her previous and follow up album, doesn't mean I think it's underrated.
The album "Music" did not go unnoticed. Even though, I agree the success sizzled out much too early and more singles could have been released from the album. It's quite a stand out album in her catalog.
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I prefer Music to Ray of Light big time. Music has been overlooked over the years because she only pulled 3 singles, one of which wasn't even an album track
The era was very well received by everyone at the time and, although coming right after the enormous success of Ray of Light, she took the risk of changing her sound and image completely.
That's the Madonna I love
Some of her older albums seem to be mentioned more frequently, mostly because of the controversy they created at the time. Erotica and American Life for example
Even Like a Prayer wasn't that huge success that people think
Umm? What are you talking about? Granted, the "Like A Prayer" album didn't sell as many copies as her previous two albums, but it still sold 15 million copies and yes at the time, it was a HUGE success. The album carved out yet again another signature song (the title track) that eclipsed her previous signature songs. The title track alone was her highest selling track of her career at the time and is now her third world-wide highest selling track behind "Hung Up" and "Vogue".
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I'm a huge fan of the album. I haven't read your opinion on why you prefer it to ROL, but I actually rate them both pretty equally, giving ROL a slight edge for consistency (and of course the whole rebirth angle). But song-for-song, Music is nearly as good. I think there are two reasons it's not as well-regarded as some of her other albums:
1) it's just eclipsed by ROL. It's sort of seen as the "follow-up," and maybe riding on ROL's coattails.
2) The promo was cut short, with only three singles, the last one of which was sort of botched (remix used in the video, which means the video wasn't really promoting the song much at all, and it being banned from MTV didn't help).
I truly believe, like BS, this album could have sold much more had the singles been handled differently. And thus I think it would be slightly better regarded today.
So I actually agree with much of what you posted here, but regarding WIFLFAG, you do know the banning of the video was a huge set up to generate sales for the single video? Madonna and her camp suggested it was too violent for TV from the get-go. MTV just followed her lead, knowing what better controversy is to have another banned Madonna 10 years after her first. While at the same time, MTV was all willing to feature other videos that were far more explicit such as "The Prodigys" 'Smack My Bitch Up" several years earlier. I remember at the time of the banning, there was a lot of talk it was a strategically planned banned video on Madonna's part even though MTV was playing far more explicit and offensive videos prior to the release of WIFLFAG!
As for the actual topic, do I think "Music" is underrated? Not really. I agree that the album was eclipsed by ROL. When you have a huge critically and successful album prior, it's hard to measure up to it. I think the album is equally good. Though, I can see why some might see it as an extension to ROL. With ROL though, it was something new and different. Her outlook on life and life had taken a huge turn with motherhood and her spiritual journey. It was the first time in a long time we truly can say we got another "NEW MADONNA".
Still, the "Music" album was a precursor of what was to come with "American Life" the more electronic and folk sounds on a couple of the tracks like "Don't Tell Me" and "Gone".
What's great about Madonna that she seems to have several generations under her belt where people will always remember her as. You have the older generation who will always remember 80's Madonna, then you have a new crop of adults now who are fond of the 90's Madonna who have ROL as their go to, and then we have a current crop of younger fans who are getting on board that may go back as far as the Confession era.
For me, Madonna's probably most underrated albums would go to either "American Life" or "Bedtime Stories". They are hardly even thought of by the general public, even though the latter produce one of her longest #1 songs in America.
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I applaud him. The problem is that we have some simplistic and ignorant people who will let the eccentric fast talking cockiness comical persona get in the way with what he's trying to convery. Some will say, why can't he just sit there without looking like he's going to go ape shit and say what he wants to say? Ummmm, we have plenty of personalities on news programs doing that already and still coming off like they are nuts. I'm not going to say Russell is a genious, but he is quite articulate and intelligent on what he speaks of if you can get past his eccentric way of presenting his views and himself.
I do disagree with him regarding the "don't vote". As long as we are under a democratic government, majority wins. Not voting, will only assure the wrong people in office. If anything, we need to hold our representatives accountable and clean house if they aren't doing their job. I suspect it's only going to get uglier before it gets better if that's even possible.
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Well forgive me but I am not aware of Madonna fans criticising younger celebrities or even older celebrities than Madonna for their age. I've seen different kinds of criticisms but from my observation they usually stem from behavior.
The "Flop Princesses and Diva" forums full of those criticisms. Don't act like age doesn't play a part of some of those criticisms. I don't disagree "behavior" isn't cricized, but so is weight and many other are criticized. Even if behavior is a huge criticism of other entertainers, Madonna seems to get a pass for her extreme behavior when many others who have done similar are highly criticized and spun into some assumed exaggeration.
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So criticising someone for their actions is equally as wrong as discriminating against someone because of their age?
Not what I said at all. My point is that there are a lot of Madonna fans who have criticized other celebrities for being too old to be in the business when they are much younger than Madonna. It's just interesting that fans of Madonna give her a pass, while they are critical of other entertainers.
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Fact is.. our society is agiest. I find it interesting within this own Madonna community how a number of fans are able to give Madonna a pass because of her age, but virtually anyone else who is even older than thrity, doesn't. It seems pretty contradictory even among the fan base. Obviously, it's beyond age since anyone who is popular in pop music who is a claimed to be a threat to Madonna's legacy, tends to bring out the claws. So many fans defend Madonna and her age, and get pissed about how people say she's too old, when very same fans are just as guilty with doing the same for many younger artists. If it's not age, it's something even more ridiculous.
In the end, I don't care. Madonna isn't you're conventional pop star that we see today. Maybe she fit the bill in the 80's., but she keeps defying what constitutes as a pop star. People can tell her to shut up and retire already, but I think at this point no matter what anyone says, she's going to keep coming back with a vengence. There will always be a level of respect for her at this point, yet a lot of discourse or criticism no matter what she does.
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Oh guess what Kid Rock is a football fan. Love to know what he thinks of the average price of a ticket to see an NFL game. Thats just to get in, that doesn't include parking etc...and you get a chance to see them every year several more times than your favorite artist who plays two shows at your city every few years. He played in a stadium where the people in there paid some bucks to get in. Hey they even charge that kind of money for people to freeze their asses off. Wonder what what football fan Kid Rock thinks of that?
He actually mentioned "sporting events" with Piers Morgan being extremely expensive as well.
Anyway, Kid Rock tends to have made his home with Detroit. He's a true local boy. Madonna is a global artist. She may have been born and raised in that area, but she never claimed to be that "hometowm local girl". I guess New York City is the closest to her "home town" as this is where she has the most fond memories and loves to live the most.
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I have to agree with his stance on ticket pricing. It has gotten out of hand. Most people who want to go to concerts, cannot afford to see some of their favorite artists these days due to high ticket sales. I know a lot of Madonna fans (even here) have passed up going to see her in concert because they can't afford her tickets. I've also read how some people have saved up for months on end to go to her concerts if not took out loans or maxed out their credit cards. You shouldn't have to jeopardize your financial situation to go see your favorite performer or sports team. Certainly, I expect performers who are in higher demand to charge a little more, but for good Madonna seats, you're going to shell out at least $350.00 and that's just for one seat. And while I think she puts a lot into her shows to demand higher ticket prices, but paying that much is outrageous when Madonna was one of the biggest names on the planet back in 1990 and a ticket to her Blond Ambtion show was merely $30.
I know we all here say Madonna's worth it, and she puts so much into her show. But I'm sure if she just charged half the price for her most expensive ticket, she will still make a killing. Just because you CAN charge high price tickets, means you should. And the fact is, the more entertainers who do this, the more and more they will alienate their hardcore fans who can't afford.
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I think she has problems with the spoken parts of the songs live
But that's not the spoken part...
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Yet they butchered the song in "I'm Going To Tell You A Secret".
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Yeah, I recall the video being HUGE on MTV at the time, but on U.S. radio it wasn't played that much except in bigger cities. "Sorry" seemed to do decently well on MTV at first in the U.S., but didn't have the life "Hung Up". I prefer "Sorry" over "Hung Up", myself.
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Why do people always go on and on about being people "entitled" to their opinion, especially when it's ignorant? That doesn't mean anything. Like I have to bend over backwards because someone is "entitled"?
Yes, everyone has the right to have their opinion/idea/belief...and I respect peoples' right to have the right to have it...but that doesn't mean the opinion/idea/belief is worthy of any respect or validity if it is illogical or ignorant. "Entitled to an opinion" means jack shit.
How the fuck does "Kid Rock" know what Madonna has done or not done, or what she feels about Detroit? He's not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed anyway.
Dude, the street goes both ways!!
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I have to disagree. He's got some real talent. He's a true musician. He can compose, write and play his own music. So to say he has no talent is simply inaccurate. You might not like his style, but he is very talented for the genre of music he performs. Certainly, he has his own opinions of the world. He's entitled to that. No need to bash him over silly nonsense over this. I don't necessarily agree with his stance that musicians should shut up about politics. I think anyone with a voice, should be allowed to say their peace... musician or not. Some people just get pissed because celebrities who speak out, actually have influece on people.
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Actually, I agree with him. What has she really done for "Detroit"? But I would ask the same of Kid Rock? I honestly have no clue since I don't follow him as closely as Madonna. She certainly can claim that Detroit helped her become the hard working person she is, but I honestly don't know what she's really done, other than help inspire others to follow her lead.
Still, you can't take away the fact, she is one of a number of well known musicians who came from that area.
The title of this thread is misleading. I don't believe Kid Rock was "whining". He just made an observed statement that was his opinion. I'm not saying I agree with everything he says of Madonna, but he's entitled to his say, and I don't see what he said was necessarily "stupid" either. Well unless you count the use of bad grammar. LOL!
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I was nervous listening to this and I'm sorry for doubting early-Madonna. Who is just as awesome as current-Madonna.
Never doubt Queendonna!
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Madonna is well renowned for being a risk taker. Within her fanbase and among the general public. Something about the MDNA singles came across like she was chasing commercial success. They were very lazy single choices that were a desperate attempt at playing it safe which when it comes to an icon such as Madonna she doesn't need to do. Commercial appeal doesn't necessarily mean hit and I think that was highlighted with MDNA. I dont know what they were thinking, look at Superstar being released in Brazil...what in the actual???
You obviously have forgotten Madonna has bullt much of her career in being commercial. You're right, "commercial appeal doesn't" guarantee a hit. But singles are selected based on commercial appeal. They are usually selected to fit in the mainstream whether someone calls it "generic" or not. A lot of ridiculous songs have become huge if not memorable that were considered just as generic. "Macareana" anyone??? That song became a massive hit, but was it really a song with much substance? No. It was quite ridiculous, but the truth is most mainstream successful songs are meanlingless songs people like to sing and/or dance to. Of course, I'm not saying every popular song is meaningless, I'm just saying that most singles meant for mainstream are simplistic and just catchy. For instance, "Lucky Star", "Into The Groove", "Holday", "Vogue", and "Music" all can fit in that category among some of her lesser known singles.
And regarding "playing it safe" and choosing songs that are more risky, I hear many fans claim "Beautiful Killer" would have made a great single. I have to ask, "how so?" Most fans agree it's classic sounding Madonna. So how is it a risk to release something that sounds like a typical Madonna song? Hardly risky to me. Risk is when a 50 something woman stays on top of what's current whether it's "generic" to some or not. "GGW" was definitely a current sounding song for radio over a year ago and even today. It may have not been a head of the curve as she has been with some of her past songs, but many of the songs we all think should make singles, usually aren't suitable for radio or mainstream success. A song like "Gang Bang" may be a favorite fan song, but there is no way in hell radio would play that song, nor would it "chart" in the U.S. even with a stellar video. "Love Spent" an awesome cool and lush song, but that song wouldn't have done any better. And I think that all the songs on MDNA. I still feel that fans are looking for any excuse to blame the failure on her songs on anything but ageism. Fans should be outraged by this fact that entertainers (especially women) are kicked to the curb once they reach 40.
The whole disappointment or shock that "Superstar" was released in "Brazil" seems a bit silly to me. You do realize this was a limited promotional FREE release that was tied to a contest sponsored by "Keep Walking Brazil project" to create artwork for the song?
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Irrespective of chart success and hindsight (and I can assure you my opinion of the song is not based on it's lack of success on the charts) - the song was not up to M's usual standard. As other people have pointed out, the chorus falls flat and combined with the lyrics something just doesn't work. To say that GGW is up there with Into the Groove, Hung Up, Vogue or Ray of Light is just ridiculous. The lack of GGW's success or any of her other recent songs doesn't always come back to M's age - sometimes she just doesn't release very strong songs. We have to acknowledge that even as M fans. I still love even her worst material because I admire her and her catalogue of music but I can still be brutally honest and say some of her tracks are a tad ropey.
But I didn't say that. I simply said she's still producing just as great music if not better as she's been in the past. I'm not necessarily comparing them to some of her biggest hits of her career. Everything else you mention is quite subjective. Just because a handful of people you talk to agree with you, doesn't mean it's FACT. I believe you when you say you feel it doesn't measure up to her "usual standard", but that's your opinion. There are plenty of people who love GGW just for what it is. I'm not trying to compare it to her past music. I'm just saying she's still producing great music, but age plays a huge factor in what songs are hits, which is in line with answering the original question proposed by Johnnox.
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Yes but GGW was a very weak song, especially for Madonna's standards. I personally love it but I can totally see why some people dislike it.
Katy and Rihanna release very strong singles, I dont even think they would release GGW, especially if it came from an album with such solid album tracks like MDNA had. And just because the MDNA singles didnt do well, doesnt mean that Madonna wont have a top 10 single again. 4 minutes, GI2M, Celebration...all released in Ms 50s, they still done extremely well. Lets not even include the hits she had in her 40s. if you choose to release the weakest songs off your album they're not going to do well, despite who you are and how old you are too.
You realize those songs with the exception of "4 Mins.." did well only in a few regions. And if Madonna did "4 Mins.." solo, it wouldn't have faired as well.
As for "GGW" being the weakest song, I think it's subjective. To me, the song was one of the most commercialist songs on the album. It makes sense since I see singles are meant to be released to reach mainstream audiences.
Anyway, I'm not counting Madonna out just yet. She's managed to keep in there despite the ageist society we live in... especially when it comes to women in entertainment.
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It's very strange because I really like Girls Gone Wild because it's a Madonna song but in real terms the song was a dud and would have met the same fate even if someone like Rihanna had recorded it. Madonna can do so much better. To answer the question; it didn't fare too well in 2012 and I suspect it would tank even more in 2013.
Nah, I think some fans are finding excuses for it's failure and if it doesn't meet up to her past single releases, they immediately call it a "dud" or what not. It seems every time a Madonna song doesn't perform well in popular mainstream, (and that's about all her songs anymore), everyone claims the song isn't good.
It's all about age here. In fact, there are plenty of dull and ridiculous songs doing quite well on radio and the charts (even though, it's subjective). If Lady Gaga, Katy Perry or Rhianna released this song, it would have been pretty big.
Some fans can't just get into their heads, that Madonna's days on the radio and getting top ten hits, are pretty much over. No one over 50 gets a huge hit, unless it's a fluke hit like Cher got with BELIEVE and even that is something that is rare.
Madonna songs are just as great if not better than what she's released in the past. Too many fans put too much emphasizes on charts and radio success when fans should just enjoy the music and not let the charts and radio dictate what they should like or not.
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Gilroy has been relatively loyal compared to even Bray. She spoke highly and sweetly of him during her Hall Of Fame acceptance speech, and even just a photo of them together now would be a marvelous sight!
I can't see her going back to the past producers and collaborators. She seems to be all about NOW, which is good because a lot of artists tend to keep going back to the old formula, trying to score another hit.
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The remix album was based on the fact that she loved the original mix of "ROL" which was 12 mins long or something like that. I recall she speaking to Kurt Loder on the set of "Frozen" about doing such a project. I don't believe there was any intention to put new tracks on it, but who knows? I think she bailed once she started putting her sights on The Next Best Thing.
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Sing la di da di....
No different to the ever fan favorite who swear "Impressive Instant" would have been a huge hit...
I like to singy singy singy
Like a bird on a wingy wingy wingy
I like to rhumba rhumba rhumba
Dance to a samba samba samba
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Love on the Run, Take me (I want You), Get Up, and High Society Boy are my favs.
Russell Brand Wants To Start a Revolution
in ARCHIVE - Madonna
Posted
Why do people say that all the time? Most people who stand up, and speak or rise up about important issues, aren't necessarily thinking, "Oh, I'm going to change the world all by myself". What bothers me is that a lot of people seem to think entertainers should just "shut up" and do their act and not talk about things that bother them or close to them. Why can't they? Why is it okay for us regular folk be able to voice our opinions about everything under the sun, but not celebrities. It seems to me just because they have an in with media exposure, they all of a sudden shouldn't be able to speak up about things that bother them. Besides, if no one stands up and speaks out, how can things be discussed to be changed? And what better way to get people talking, then getting someone the general public knows and may relate to, then keep relying on our politicians who keep fucking us over and over. Certainly, there are going to be celebrities who have less credibility or may say things we disagree with, but at least they are using their voice to bring awareness. At least they are saying something publicly that a lot of people may agree with. It's no secret that especially in the U.S., the political system is a huge joke anymore. For years now, us regular folks have been saying things need to change. Yet, nothing is being changed. Most celebrities are just like us regarding our thoughts on a lot of political and social issues. They just have more money and have an easier access to getting their thoughts out there.
Even though, I may not agree with everything about Russell, I can see he (like many other celebrities) are looking for a peaceful solution to things. He certainly can't change things alone, but his words and actions can encourage and inspire others to come together and help make that change.