383 replies to this topic

[Five Elements]

runa, on 30 May 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

this is sooooooooooooo interesting!

I saw your sig. I always thought the lyrics to BK was "island alone"  

[runa]

Five Elements, on 31 May 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

I saw your sig. I always thought the lyrics to BK was "island alone"  

[CUBB]

Heard that song Orbit gave to Chris Brown which was meant to be so amazing and the best songs from the MDNA sessions or whatever he said. The song is utter shit. Chris Brownturd can keep it.

thend

[Nightshade]

CUBB, on 14 June 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

Heard that song Orbit gave to Chris Brown which was meant to be so amazing and the best songs from the MDNA sessions or whatever he said. The song is utter shit. Chris Brownturd can keep it.

thend

My thoughts exactly. I can't even believe he said it. I think William is just butt hurt.

[Hector]

[12:51]

[HolidayGuy]

Seriously- anything with Chris Brown's involvement it is not going to be "amazing."

[Flip The Switch]

peter, on 30 May 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

Oh, you're welcome ... The William Orbit interview is honestly worth a listen for anyone who hasn't yet -- especially appropriate in this thread.  I think I quoted it in another thread (in the general section) -- he just goes on and on about how unique her voice is in technical terms.  So nice to hear him play knight to the Queen.

He is the only one that truly get the best of her voice and with magic or not we got her vocals of the 90's again: I'm A Sinner + Falling Free.

He is a GENIUS.

[karbatal]

Yes, they seem to make a unique sound. Orbit is the only one, along with Leonard and Bray who made a brand in terms of Madonna. I'm sad that maybe the won't work together again.

[bluejean]

I don't really love what he did to her voice this time around.

I was listening to abit of Evita today and her voice on that was superb. As was Ray of Light of course. I do like her use of her higher register on the new Orbit tracks, and it sounds better than say GGW, but I just wish he didn't use so much pitch correction.

[Msig]

promise to try, on 30 May 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

D-What is the real involvement of madonna in her music? because this makes her look like an artist that simply changes a little bit the melody or the lyrics and thaT´s it

As for MDNA, let's go through the songs of the standard album one-by-one

1. Girl Gone Wild: Jenson Vaughan wrote and composed the song all by himself, based on Benassi's instrumental. Madonna only added the "Act of Contrition" intro and changed a single line in the chorus.

2. Gang Bang: Madonna improvised most of the melody while recording the song, based on Demo Castellon's instrumental. She wrote those of the lyrics that are not featured in "Bang Bang".

3. I'm Addicted: Madonna wrote the lyrics all by herself.

4. Turn Up the Radio: Compared to the original version by Sunday Girl, Madonna re-wrote all of the lyrics and altered the melody slightly.

5. Give Me All Your Luvin': Madonna co-wrote the lyrics, but was not involved in composing the melody.

6. Some Girls: Madonna didn't write or compose any of this - the album version is virtually identical to the original demo, which was written for Britney Spears' Femme Fatale album, but rejected by the label (demo recorded by a random session singer)

7. Superstar: The only song with less than three credited writers. I suppose Madonna's input for this song was considerable.

8. I Don't Give A: Madonna wrote most of the lyrics herself, with Nicki Minaj writing her own parts. Musically, it sounds very Julien Jabre.

9. I'm a Sinner: As far as I know, Madonna wrote the lyrics with Jean-Baptiste and composed the melody with William Orbit

10. Love Spent: Madonna wasn't involved in the songwriting process, but she and William Orbit altered the melody to fit her singing style better.

11. Masterpiece: Written for Madonna by Julie Front and Jimmy Harry.

12. Falling Free: As far as I know, the song was mainly written by Madonna and Joe Henry and composed by Laurie Mayer.

promise to try, on 30 May 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

E-is the album rushed? I don´t think so.In fact, WO wasn´t thinking that when it was released two months ago.some songs, I think, are meant to sound as they sound, like Birdthay song: it´s not meant to be a super production

I can see why William Orbit feels it was rushed. After all, most of the Solveig tracks had already been finished by the time Orbit came into the picture. By then, Madonna was busy promoting W.E., Material Girl, Hard Candy Fitness, what have you..

Edited by Msig, 16 June 2012 - 04:24 PM.

[12:51]

^ what exactly is your basis for all of that?

For one, you're wrong about GGW as Benny Benassj himself said that Madonna was responsible for a good bulk of voice layering, vocal styling, the insertion of different effects in order to make the bridge/ pre chorus more effective, etc.

Turn Up The Radio bears obvious similarities to the original Sunday Girl one, but the structure of the song was completely altered by Madonna and an entire new bridge was written by her (source, Martin Solveig). Not exactly a microwaved 1, 2, 3 re-hashing.

William Orbit said Madonna wrote the lyrics to Some Girls.

Give Me All Your Luvin' doesn't exactly sound like a melody that Martin would have come up with. And the lyrics are obviously 100% Madonna- why the hell would she need a non native speaker of English to help her write the most basic set of lyrics on the album?

Love Spent's lyrics were obviously written solely by Madonna as I doubt she wanted a bunch of strangers writing about the most intimate details of her divorce.

Where is the original demo to Some Girls? This is the first time I've heard of this existing.

Julie Frost commented on the songwriting of Masterpiece saying that Madonna and her brainstormed the melody and lyrics based on just the simple music track that we hear on the album - also saying it was a true collaboration.

I'd like to hear your proof or source for the all the rest of the songs... not saying I don't believe you, but I'd like to read where and when this was said.

[Msig]

12:51, on 16 June 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

^ what exactly is your basis for all of that?

For one, you're wrong about GGW as Benny Benassj himself said that Madonna was responsible for a good bulk of voice layering, vocal styling, the insertion of different effects in order to make the bridge/ pre chorus more effective, etc.

Turn Up The Radio bears obvious similarities to the original Sunday Girl one, but the structure of the song was completely altered by Madonna and an entire new bridge was written by her (source, Martin Solveig). Not exactly a microwaved 1, 2, 3 re-hashing.

William Orbit said Madonna wrote the lyrics to Some Girls.

Give Me All Your Luvin' doesn't exactly sound like a melody that Martin would have come up with. And the lyrics are obviously 100% Madonna- why the hell would she need a non native speaker of English to help her write the most basic set of lyrics on the album?

Love Spent's lyrics were obviously written solely by Madonna as I doubt she wanted a bunch of strangers writing about the most intimate details of her divorce.

Where is the original demo to Some Girls? This is the first time I've heard of this existing.

Julie Frost commented on the songwriting of Masterpiece saying that Madonna and her brainstormed the melody and lyrics based on just the simple music track that we hear on the album - also saying it was a true collaboration.

I'd like to hear your proof or source for the all the rest of the songs... not saying I don't believe you, but I'd like to read where and when this was said.

Vocal production doesn't equal songwriting. The CEO of Ultra Records, to which both Benny Benassi and Jenson Vaughan are signed, stated in a press release that the song was written and composed by Jenson Vaughan, based on Benassi's instrumental. Furthermore, Vaughan said, that to his knowledge, Madonna didn't co-write the song. The "cover" by Rosette that was uploaded onto YouTube is in fact the original
demo.

As regards Gang Bang, my source is William Orbit himself (EPK and Facebook).

I'm Addicted is obvious: Madonna is the only credited co-writer who speaks any English.

Some Girls was written by William Orbit and Klas Åhlund during a songwriting camp, organized by Britney Spears' then A&R manager with the sole purpose of creating new songs for what became Britney Spears' Femme Fatale album. Eventually, all songs written during that songwriting camp were rejected by the label. The original demo is virtually identical to Madonna's version, both musically and lyrically.

GMAYL: the original Live Nation press release announcing the single states that the song was written by Madonna, Martin Solveig, Nicki Minaj and M.I.A. and composed by Martin Solveig and Michael Tordjman. However, I think the lyrics were written mainly by Madonna and the melody composed mainly by Tordjman.

As for Love Spent, the song was written and composed mainly by Jean-Baptiste and Priscilla Renea; the latter recorded the original demo, as confirmed by William Orbit. Btw, Madonna and Orbit aren't credited as co-writers in the ASCAP database, where the song was registered a long time before the other MDNA tracks.

Re: Masterpiece: melodically and lyrically, Madonna's version is virtually identical to Julie Frost's original demo. Madonna's songwriting contributions were limited to changing a few words.

I'm basing my post primarily on what tastyboy wrote in the MadonnaTribe forum. So far, everything he posted there has turned out to be accurate - one of his sources works for Madonna in the studio and knows everything about the recording process.

[12:51]

Wait, there are many conflicting things here. If Madonna wrote NONE of Some Girls then why did Orbit say she did? It makes more sense that she received the demo and changed the lyrics... We all know she does that a lot. She did that with I'll Remember, for example. This scenario makes the most since the lyrics resemble much of Madonna's style. I mean look at how self-referential the song is. Klahs Ahlund wrote "I'm not like all the rest/some girls are second best/ put your lovin' to the test/ You'll see" ? "Some girls make a scene/ shoot their mouth and talk obscene/ crying in a limosine" RIGHT. So until I hear the demo that was produced for BRITNEY (if that's even accurate), I'm gonna go with what William said ("Madonna had a great time writing those lyrics").

I really don't think Madonna not being on the ASCAP registry means anything. William wasn't even on it either, but hes the guy who composed the frigging BANJO on the song. Does it really make sense that Madonna had no hand in writing the most emotionally naked song on the album?

And as for GGW- what I mentioned may not be traditional lyric or melody writing, but manipulating the song in that way is certainly enough to warrant a writing credit. Since when did Madonna become fucking Beyonce, taking writing credits for no reason? Have we really come to the point where we're low-balling Madonna this badly?

FINALLY, Masterpiece - I WILL LET JULIE FROST CLEAR IT UP FOR US:

Watch how she corrects the interviewer at 00:42. THANKS.

I don't think we should be so hasty to trust what random people on message boards say about Madonna's songwriting. I mean if we are to mistrust what people who wrote these songs say about Madonna (especially in Orbit's case when he had every chance to say that Madonna had meager input, and instead said the opposite), then idk why we should automatically trust what some faceless person on one of the most infamously trashy Madonna boards in existence says? I bet it's just someone talking out of their bunghole, like most fansite "sources."

[Louise Oriole]

Tastyboy had also said that Madonna didn't write any of GMAYL based on there supposedly being a demo without her vocals, but we already knew that they were going to use vocalists throughout the process anyhow with M being involved both before and after. That doesn't mean that Madonna had 0 to do prior to that point. A lot of assumptions are made by him based on tiny bits & pieces of info. We know Madonna wrote the lyrics to GMAYL & might've had a hand in the melody, at least from what's been said. I think someone one here (drunkbysix) asked Priscilla if she wrote Love Spent on her own and she said she wrote it with Madonna. Priscilla was used as one of the vocalists throughout the process too, but like I mentioned, it doesn't mean M had nothing to do w the song prior to that point. I think there was a lot of back & forth with tracks and demos being sent & changed as the process went along. Martin also mentioned working with M on guitar a lot & writing--if she wasn't involved, then why would she need to do that? As for Superstar, those are all Madonna's lyrics & melody. The other co-writers worked on the music. It's also been said that on the tracks Demo (& his team) is listed as a co-writer, he didn't actually write any lyrics nor melodies, he worked on some of the music. The only song she probably had the least work on comparatively, was probably GGW (& maybe Some Girls, but I would have to compare the version sent to Brit), but that doesn't mean she had 0 to do anyhow.

[12:51]

Louise Oriole, on 16 June 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

Tastyboy had also said that Madonna didn't write any of GMAYL

Oh, now I know for sure he's full of shit.

No further questions your honor.

[Topaz Scorpio]

Do revelations here that M has been less and less involved in the songwriting on these most recent albums really come as a surprise? She herself stated in an interview about MDNA that the creative well had run dry. I think she just has less to say now compared to the past or she'd rather express it in a different way like through her filmmaking. It's disappointing to hear this stuff of course but I think she's earned the right to coast a bit in certain areas at this point in her career. And we know that regardless of her involvement in the songwriting she is heavily involved in the production and that counts for a lot.

[12:51]

I'm not refuting the fact she has has moments of minor involvement, I just think the stuff that has been posted sounds made up.

[Louise Oriole]

No, she said she the well was dry after the Super Bowl when asked about the tour, not about MDNA album. She was joking (about being exhausted), just like the "pay the rent" joke she's been throwing out since the early '90s. That was before she started rehearsals (?) on the MDNA Tour & we know how that turned out. She was heavily involved in the SB Half-Time performance, she was even very involved in the TOD perfume. She's very involved in lots of things she does, she's often not one to let others do things for her, though I'm not saying it's 100% of the time. Sometimes I think people just listen to what they want to hear. All the collaborators have vouched for her involvement & how meticulous she is, I don't know what else they have to do to prove it.

[12:51]

Louise Oriole, on 16 June 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

No, she said she the well was dry after the Super Bowl when asked about the tour, not about MDNA album. She was joking (about being exhausted), just like the "pay the rent" joke she's been throwing out since the early '90s. That was before she started rehearsals (?) on the MDNA Tour & we know how that turned out. She was heavily involved in the SB Half-Time performance, she was even very involved in the TOD perfume. She's very involved in lots of things she does, she's often not one to let others do things for her, though I'm not saying it's 100% of the time. Sometimes I think people just listen to what they want to hear. All the collaborators have vouched for her involvement & how meticulous she is, I don't know what else they have to do to prove it.

It doesn't matter.  I mean... I posted that Julie Frost interview but I'm sure someone will come say that she made that up to make Madonna look good

That's how some  loons are. I'm finding it funny that some clown on another forum is just making stuff up out of thin air about Madonna's SONGWRITING PROCESS and people are just blindly buying it.

I don't believe in kissing up to Madonna and blindly loving everything she does, but in this case, I think someone is just making up bullshit to generate negativity; in other words, the Riverwide effect.

[Msig]

[quote name='12:51' timestamp='1339882477' post='1293859']
Wait, there are many conflicting things here. If Madonna wrote NONE of Some Girls then why did Orbit say she did? It makes more sense that she received the demo and changed the lyrics... We all know she does that a lot. She did that with I'll Remember, for example. This scenario makes the most since the lyrics resemble much of Madonna's style. I mean look at how self-referential the song is. Klahs Ahlund wrote "I'm not like all the rest/some girls are second best/ put your lovin' to the test/ You'll see" ? "Some girls make a scene/ shoot their mouth and talk obscene/ crying in a limosine" RIGHT. So until I hear the demo that was produced for BRITNEY (if that's even accurate), I'm gonna go with what William said ("Madonna had a great time writing those lyrics").[/quote]

Those particular line ("some girls are second best, put your loving to the test") do indeed sound very Madonna, so I'd say it's likely that those particular lines we penned by Madonna. But when I first heard the song, my initial thought was that it sounded like a Britney reject, and I was right. Btw, Madonna and Klas Åhlund never actually met. His work on Madonna's version was limited to giving his permission for Madonna to the instrumental track he had produced a in late 2010.

[quote name='12:51' timestamp='1339882477' post='1293859']
I really don't think Madonna not being on the ASCAP registry means anything. William wasn't even on it either, but hes the guy who composed the frigging BANJO on the song. Does it really make sense that Madonna had no hand in writing the most emotionally naked song on the album?

And as for GGW- what I mentioned may not be traditional lyric or melody writing, but manipulating the song in that way is certainly enough to warrant a writing credit. Since when did Madonna become fucking Beyonce, taking writing credits for no reason? Have we really come to the point where we're low-balling Madonna this badly?[/quote]

In my book, songwriting = composing melodies and writing lyrics. Additional production/instrumentation/orchestation can never equal that. However, I do realize that this is, unfortunately, enough for most people to demand or be given a songwriting credit. Just look at Frank E, who earned himself a co-writing credit on "Revolver" for producing the song.

[quote name='12:51' timestamp='1339882477' post='1293859']
FINALLY, Masterpiece - I WILL LET JULIE FROST CLEAR IT UP FOR US:

Watch how she corrects the interviewer at 00:42. THANKS.[/quote]

Still, from what tastyboy wrote - and I have no reason whatsoever to believe that what he wrote isn't accurate - Julie Frost wrote the lyrics based on an original composition by Jimmy Harry.

[quote name='12:51' timestamp='1339882477' post='1293859']
I don't think we should be so hasty to trust what random people on message boards say about Madonna's songwriting. I mean if we are to mistrust what people who wrote these songs say about Madonna (especially in Orbit's case when he had every chance to say that Madonna had meager input, and instead said the opposite), then idk why we should automatically trust what some faceless person on one of the most infamously trashy Madonna boards in existence says? I bet it's just someone talking out of their bunghole, like most fansite "sources."
[/quote]

tastyboy is no "random person". He is one of the most constantly reliable people I've come across in various forums. For instance, back in early February, before we even knew any of the songwriting or production credits for MDNA, he revealed that "Love Spent" was originally written by Priscilla Renea and Jean-Baptiste, produced by Free School and slightly reworked by William Orbit.

Who would you believe if Madonna's accounts of the songwriting of a certain song contradicted that of her co-writers?

Does the fact that Madonna's songwriting contributions on MDNA aren't as significant as most fans (want to) think? No, not at all!
A good song is a good song, no matter who wrote it, be it Madonna, Andrew Lloyd-Webber, Lady Gaga or Kermit the Frog..

And, for the record, MadonnaTribe is no more trashy than this or any other Madonna forum I've come across..

Edited by Msig, 17 June 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[Just another Madonna fan]

Msig, on 17 June 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

And, for the record, MadonnaTribe is no more trashy than this or any other Madonna forum I've come across..

Ok, you just lost all credibility here...

[Msig]

Just another Madonna fan, on 17 June 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ok, you just lost all credibility here...

What's your definition of trashy then? Obviously, it's not the same as mine..

[Kim]

The whole purpose of Madonnatribe is to see who can be the most negative and therefore create the most "controversy". Positivity is ignored there. The FICTION of tastyboy is a product of that.

Anyway, we don't want MALWARE planted on the front page again so i'll stop there.

[Msig]

Kim, on 17 June 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

The whole purpose of Madonnatribe is to see who can be the most negative and therefore create the most "controversy". Positivity is ignored there. The FICTION of tastyboy is a product of that.

Yeah, right...

For the past few years, since mid-2007, I've seen loads of negativity across all boards..