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karbatal

Gone With The Wind NOT pulled from HBO. It will include a caption

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38 minutes ago, Paul said:

I think the issue with GWTW is that it presents the slaves as happy and thankful to be oppressed. But yes, important to document how white people tried to represent slavery, which we can now compare to the truth.

And the film scrapped things from the book. The author depicts KKK as some kind of citizen help because black people were out of control after being set free. In fact that famous scene when Ashley comes home  hurt and the men pretend they have been drinking, it's in fact Ashley being in the KKK and going to kill black people from a settlement after Scarlet had been mugged.

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I am not black, but I find this decision ridiculous. What is racist with Gone With The Wind? It paints a picture of a certain time: when there was a slavery and the black people were indeed called the n word. Going by this logic should we forbid all medieval archives, books etc., because they are even worse? There are so many - perceived from todays viewpoint -  "racist" books like The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare. Should we forbid it too? Those works of arts represented certain period of time which had a certain values and we can not go back and erase that. We should have direct sources so that we could objectively study the past. The moral is changing and thats why we have gay marriage nowadays.

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22 hours ago, karbatal said:

Are you telling me they're simply putting some caution and not pulling out the film indefinitely?

Yes, so I'm not sure why people are still going on like it's been banned or something.

 

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35 minutes ago, Kim said:

Yes, so I'm not sure why people are still going on like it's been banned or something.

 

It's the power of the viral disinformation

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

Yes, so I'm not sure why people are still going on like it's been banned or something.

 

OMG

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2 hours ago, elijah said:

I am not black, but I find this decision ridiculous. What is racist with Gone With The Wind? It paints a picture of a certain time: when there was a slavery and the black people were indeed called the n word. Going by this logic should we forbid all medieval archives, books etc., because they are even worse? There are so many - perceived from todays viewpoint -  "racist" books like The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare. Should we forbid it too? Those works of arts represented certain period of time which had a certain values and we can not go back and erase that. We should have direct sources so that we could objectively study the past. The moral is changing and thats why we have gay marriage nowadays.

For some years now many companies don't perform Merchant of Venice any more, or do it very carefully to better contextualise it.

That said, I saw a version of Thoroughly Modern Millie last year, which I didn't know how racist it was. I was surprised they did it.

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1 minute ago, Paul said:

For some years now many companies don't perform Merchant of Venice any more, or do it very carefully to better contextualise it.

But many do and there is a very famous movie with Pacino in the main role.

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2 hours ago, elijah said:

OMG

What? It hasn't been banned. HBO have taken it off temporarily and said they'll put it back up along with a discussion of its historical context, which is perfectly reasonable.

 

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I support the BLM campaign with all my heart but this is getting a tad ridiculous now (And is nothing directly to do with them it’s other people feeling a need to take action). 

Attempting to re-write history by removing films isn’t the answer. Surly these films are held up as a product of the times they were made and it’s a known fact racism existed as blatantly and disgustingly as depicted in GWTW. Removing it does nothing but hide away the fact it had the racist undertones.

If we are going to open up the vaults and make decisions based on societies standards today then half of the films available would be taken down or given censor messages at the start.

Take the bond films in the early days and how woman were treated for example absolutely disgraceful it wouldn’t happen in a modern Bond film now but does that mean we get rid of these and keep starting a fresh?

I am not making this a contest between offences but where do we draw the line here there are so many films made that are a product of the day that are both old fashioned now and at times the content is viewed in todays pair of eyes as immoral.

Trying to hide them is pointless they should remain and be lessons of shock to today’s audience particularly the younger audience to bring it home that such a world once existed.

Because it did exist and we must all learn from it.

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44 minutes ago, Confessit said:

I support the BLM campaign with all my heart but this is getting a tad ridiculous now (And is nothing directly to do with them it’s other people feeling a need to take action). 

Attempting to re-write history by removing films isn’t the answer. Surly these films are held up as a product of the times they were made and it’s a known fact racism existed as blatantly and disgustingly as depicted in GWTW. Removing it does nothing but hide away the fact it had the racist undertones.

If we are going to open up the vaults and make decisions based on societies standards today then half of the films available would be taken down or given censor messages at the start.

Take the bond films in the early days and how woman were treated for example absolutely disgraceful it wouldn’t happen in a modern Bond film now but does that mean we get rid of these and keep starting a fresh?

I am not making this a contest between offences but where do we draw the line here there are so many films made that are a product of the day that are both old fashioned now and at times the content is viewed in todays pair of eyes as immoral.

Trying to hide them is pointless they should remain and be lessons of shock to today’s audience particularly the younger audience to bring it home that such a world once existed.

Because it did exist and we must all learn from it.

Read Kim's comment above. No one is trying to rewrite history, just present antiquated ideologies in today's context / world.

By your logic we should all enjoy a good minstrelsy because why rewrite history, it's just good old fun.  

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They aren’t banning it. They are just putting a statement at the beginning. That said, some will try to go too far but the pendulum with right itself soon enough.
 

Now, those statues of Confederate soldiers and leaders chunk them in the Atlantic along with the Confederate flag. 

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3 hours ago, ULIZOS said:

Read Kim's comment above. No one is trying to rewrite history, just present antiquated ideologies in today's context / world.

By your logic we should all enjoy a good minstrelsy because why rewrite history, it's just good old fun.  

I never said that or at least that’s no true the point  I was making..... society has changed and continues to change but censorship is not the answer in my opinion.

We need to accept that films are made in times when society wasn’t as civilised as it is today.

I remember watching Birth of a Nation at school and being horrified as we all were but it should remain as a reminder these things have happened. 

Shall we shut Auschwitz in that case and forget about it? But it happened we need to remember. YES that’s an extreme example but I’m afraid the principal is the same.

If we start censoring the Arts I think it can lead to just removing things that make people uncomfortable in different areas where does one draw the line? 

I am just trying to debate this from a different perspective. That’s all.

If they put it back with some kind of disclaimer then that’s fine but there are calls now for it never to be put back.

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13 hours ago, Kim said:

What? It hasn't been banned. HBO have taken it off temporarily and said they'll put it back up along with a discussion of its historical context, which is perfectly reasonable.

 

I m shocked at the outcry for smith when it even isn’t quite true :). 

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2 hours ago, elijah said:

I m shocked at the outcry for smith when it even isn’t quite true :). 

It happens all the time now in Twitter. My mistake for not checking correctly the info...

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Even if they’re only adding a “warning” or “discussion” to the film rather than banning it completely, that’s still unwelcome and infantilising. I don’t need to be told what I should think about old films or TV. Racism or other outdated stuff is so obvious it jumps out at you.

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I think people should get a grip. I love this film, but I do agree it's incredibly racist at times. Even the filming, when Vivien Leigh slapped really hard and very real actress Butterfly McQueen. McQueen had to ask the director to stop.

I think it's not harmful to explain something at the beginning.

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4 hours ago, karbatal said:

I think it's not harmful to explain something at the beginning.

 

I think it’s unnecessary & LATE 🤷🏾‍♂️
 

Anyone watching the movie will understand the racism in a historical context. If they don’t, they can look it up.
 

& where do we draw the line exactly? Will they add a disclaimer to the beginning of Last Tango In Paris for that ‘butter scene?” Will they add a warning to Saturday Night Fever since John Travolta refers to his fellow New Yorkers as ‘spics’ & ‘N*****s?’

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5 hours ago, nimos said:

Even if they’re only adding a “warning” or “discussion” to the film rather than banning it completely, that’s still unwelcome and infantilising.


Exactly.

 

And shouldn’t this thread be in the ‘Entertainment & Celebrity’ sub-forum?

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2 minutes ago, IsaacHarris said:

 

I think it’s unnecessary & LATE 🤷🏾‍♂️
 

Anyone watching the movie will understand the racism in a historical context. If they don’t, they can look it up.
 

& where do we draw the line exactly? Will they add a disclaimer to the beginning of Last Tango In Paris for that ‘butter scene?” Will they add a warning to Saturday Night Fever since John Travolta refers to his fellow New Yorkers as ‘spics’ & ‘N*****s?’

That's true..

I have never watched Saturday Night Fever until recently and I was surprised at how crude it was. It's true that it would be difficult to draw the line. 

But on the other hand we've seen this happening in books, especially children books. Enid Blyton books have paragraphs removed and changed. Then again, it's for children, so maybe it's understandable.

Yeah, it's a weird issue.

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2 minutes ago, karbatal said:

But on the other hand we've seen this happening in books, especially children books. Enid Blyton books have paragraphs removed and changed. Then again, it's for children, so maybe it's understandable.


Oh, I ESPECIALLY hate that :lol:
 

The original text should remain in tact & the teacher/ parent can explain the significance. Or just use a different book entirely.

 

This reminds me of a time in High School when we watched Philadelphia and our teacher wanted to fast-forward the scene with Denzel in the kitchen, making homophobic remarks about Tom Hanks. I was THE openly gay person in class & I asked “Why skip it!?“ -A major theme of the movie is that Denzel overcomes his initial prejudice, so we SHOULD see and hear it.

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Those people are approaching these things wrong and there will be further challenges ahead from it.

i don’t think most people are learning anything from these times.

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I mean, it documents a time when things like slavery and racism (still exists) existed. The fact people can't make the distinction about art, films and other forms being a product of the time or the time period they are set truly will lead to movies and shows being pulled from the net. That's why I've never been big on streaming because movies, shows or specials can just vanish and it makes owning a film even worse when film collectors and scalpers rush to get the film and then sell it for astronomical prices. The movie itself is now hard to find in stores and online with people selling a DVD for over $50 on sites like Ebay. It's not to speak on those affected by racism or violence, however it leads us down a path where censorship becomes ordinary and books/ideas/films/music will be regulated or removed by the outcry of those who find offense. 

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I think a notice at the beginning of the film is appropriate. An informed viewer will already know the historical context but it's important to formally admit racism. There are still people who do not admit racism or downplay it. Many of them complain about Gone With Wind "getting banned" on these grounds and not because they appreciate the film (most likely they have never seen it and do not care much for it). I personally believe that Gone With Wind can still been shown and appreciated because at its core is a romance set in a real historical period. There are however films that are racist at their core and should probably disappear in an archive. An example I can think of is Blake Edward's The Party.

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If they would do that to movies that have no historical context it is certainly okay to put a disclaimer on it. That said, I find the discussion about movies or television that depict history or are in a historical context embarrassing. It's 2020. People should know. Or has the majority of people really dumbed down that much that this kind of intervention is really needed? Where to start, where to stop. What will be next? A movie about The Third Reich / WW2 / Holocaust? Anti-Semitism, racism, homophobia, euthanasia etc. 

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I'm so glad that this movie has not been banned.

I can sleep at night now.

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"Fiddler on the roof" was on TV last night, I started watching thinking "SJWs better not watch this" :chuckle:

 

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Same old story at the end of the day.

The world is burning.

Blame art.

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How about we ban the bible for its depiction of slavery, prostitution, wars, murders, rapes, violations of women, etc...

This is getting ridiculous. No reason to erase history. Our society today is more modern by leaps and bounds and surely everything that came before us is offensive. But let's not ban it!

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1 hour ago, whyme? said:

How about we ban the bible for its depiction of slavery, prostitution, wars, murders, rapes, violations of women, etc...

This is getting ridiculous. No reason to erase history. Our society today is more modern by leaps and bounds and surely everything that came before us is offensive. But let's not ban it!

Wait, GWTW the book and movie have been BANNED? OMG!

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I'm half-black (but not American, so I hope @IsaacHarrisand @erotica blu can and will correct me), but I don't see what the deal is. The tone of the movie is racist, but then again, so is the story it is trying to tell (and if we think of how racist the movie industry was in the 30's, it only makes things worse). Should all movies about Nazi Germany be banned because it was a horrible time for humanity?

This is my opinion only, but whenever I hear that so and so was, well, problematic (say, Dietrich and some of the things she's said in private), I try to remember that the time was totally different back then and concentrate on all the progressive or positive things they've done. A lot of people are ignorant but that's because they haven't had a chance to learn about certain things, not because they're evil. Ignorance is certainly better than fake virtue to me. Maybe that's just me.

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