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George Floyd and BLM discussion

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Yas! Get these slave trader statues to fuck! I hear they're trying to pull Churchill's statue down too, who of course was a huge filthy racist despite what you might see on romanticised  propaganda shit like 'The Crown'. I'm sure there'll be one or two in here crying silent tears at the "cultural vandalism" though...

 

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9 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Yes, it's a very different situation. But Italy has precisely shown the worst face of racism this past year with Salvini blocking the landing of refugees and even shrugging when they were being left to die. The Spanish NGO boat rescuing those migrants from the sea was even facing an Italian trial, accused of helping the human trafficking mafias. 

Every country has a racist and xenophobic story that's being exacerbated these past years. Sometimes it's a policeman suffocating an unarmed man. Others, letting people die. 

In Spain illegal immigrants from Central Africa were sleeping on the streets near big slaughterhouses during the lockdown because they had no job and no house. 

 

Just a reminder

Italy is the one country in Europe that has done the most to take in more refugees than any other country in Europe in the past 25 years, when in the mid 90s the Mediterranean Sea was being turned into a graveyard and of course Northern European countries were dead silent, to not even mention Britain that's always enjoyed keeping one foot in its former colony the US (while continuing to exploit all of its Commonwealth territories) and one foot in Europe, and we all know how that's ending up ...

If Salvini did what he did it doesn't mean that Italy as a whole is massively racist, mind you the current prime minister was in government with Salvini and he enjoys good to great international approval ratings

Also do please remember that many of those NGOs are involved in human trafficking and are involved with George Soros foundations who back in 1992 profited from the collapse of the London Stock Market by a one billion 💷 figure, so not exactly Santa Claus

 

In any case this was not the issue being discussed here, the point WASN'T that instances of racism do not exist in Europe as well, but that in the US it's a broad daylight, cold blooded, weekly, almost legalised system and what armed forces can do there and are allowed to do there versus what they are actually allowed to get away with here

 

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13 minutes ago, XXL said:

 

Just a reminder

Italy is the one country in Europe that has done the most to take in more refugees than any other country in Europe in the past 25 years, when in the mid 90s the Mediterranean Sea was being turned into a graveyard and of course Northern European countries were dead silent, to not even mention Britain that's always enjoyed keeping one foot in its former colony the US (while continuing to exploit all of its Commonwealth territories) and one foot in Europe, and we all know how that's ending up ...

If Salvini did what he did it doesn't mean that Italy as a whole is massively racist, mind you the current prime minister was in government with Salvini and he enjoys good to great international approval ratings

Also do please remember that many of those NGOs are involved in human trafficking and are involved with George Soros foundations who back in 1992 profited from the collapse of the London Stock Market by a one billion 💷 figure, so not exactly Santa Claus

 

In any case this was not the issue being discussed here, the point WASN'T that instances of racism do not exist in Europe as well, but that in the US it's a broad daylight, cold blooded, weekly, almost legalised system and what armed forces can do there and are allowed to do there versus what they are actually allowed to get away with here

 

I don't agree with much, but this is not the thread.

The point is that these demonstrations would be incredibly positive if focused on black or brown people being attacked, killed or let alone to die in our own countries. 

What's the point of marching if not? 

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17 minutes ago, XXL said:

In any case this was not the issue being discussed here, the point WASN'T that instances of racism do not exist in Europe as well, 

Well, I think that WAS Django's original point. Anyway, the "this country isn't quite as bad as that country" stuff is just a distraction. Institutional racism is everywhere, the tiny bit we happen to see filmed on mobile phones these days is nothing compared to what's actually going on, not to mention the really insidious, sneaky racism that almost goes unnoticed but is threaded through so much of society. One could almost say at least the US is honest about it, right there in broad daylight...

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2 hours ago, Kim said:

Yas! Get these slave trader statues to fuck! I hear they're trying to pull Churchill's statue down too, who of course was a huge filthy racist despite what you might see on romanticised  propaganda shit like 'The Crown'. I'm sure there'll be one or two in here crying silent tears at the "cultural vandalism" though...

 

Amazing! It baffles me that there are still some statues like these around , glad it went down and I hope it stays that way! 👏

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5 hours ago, Suedehead said:

:thumbsdown:

Germany is one of the most racist countries on earth! 

 

Well, I would like to argue that Germany is no more racist than any other country in the EU. But there is no question the UK and the USA is far more racist than Germany. 

And please tell me what is wrong with my post. I have properly explained what was going on. This is neither racist nor diminshes the discussion about police brutality. So why the harsh reaction? Because it did not fit the narrative? Police = always evil.  If only it was that easy. There are already people (dare I say criminals) out there, hijacking the movement for their very own interests. From the very left to the very right and some criminals inbetween. Slowly eroding the power and influence of the demonstrations for a righteous cause. 

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16 minutes ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Well, I would like to argue that Germany is no more racist than any other country in the EU. But there is no question the UK and the USA is far more racist than Germany. 

And please tell me what is wrong with my post. I have properly explained what was going on. This is neither racist nor diminshes the discussion about police brutality. So why the harsh reaction? Because it did not fit the narrative? Police = always evil.  If only it was that easy. There are already people (dare I say criminals) out there, hijacking the movement for their very own interests. From the very left to the very right and some criminals inbetween. Slowly eroding the power and influence of the demonstrations for a righteous cause. 

Ok unless I didn't understand properly you considered that throwing an unarmed boy to the floor was justified. You heard the expressions and immediately assigned a foreign nationality (because of the words, not the accent). And you infered that because all of that that the overreaction that we comment is justified. 

Did I interpret it all properly? 

Now if we connect the dots...

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2 hours ago, karbatal said:

Ok unless I didn't understand properly you considered that throwing an unarmed boy to the floor was justified. You heard the expressions and immediately assigned a foreign nationality (because of the words, not the accent). And you infered that because all of that that the overreaction that we comment is justified. 

Did I interpret it all properly? 

Now if we connect the dots...

Well, I was not jumping to conclusions. This particular video was used to illustrate that there are obviously racist cops in Germany as well who are not shy of using violence. In response I merely said that this actually may NOT be a qualified example since we do not know what has happened before. I merely gave my impression what the scene was about, that to me there was an arrest going on (although unclear why) and that the second guy interfered with the arrest and must have threatened or otherwise inappropriately dealt with the female officers (hence the explanation given by the male officer, unfortunately it is hard to hear what exactly that was), which resulted in bringing the guy down. The response was that someone yelled "son of bitch" at the officer (which by the way, in Germany is an offence). And sorry, I clearly said that the use of this word is almost exclusively used by Turkish or Lebanese man. But yes, I could have used the accent as well. There are certain things that simply give it away, where people are coming from. Just as I had told you the person was Bavarian or Saxonian (you have studied in Leipzig, do not pretend, you don't know what I mean). This was merely an identification. There is nothing racist about it. I did not evaluate the actions of the two arrestees or assumed a possible criminal behaviour based on their immigrant background. Now that would have been racist. You are making assumptions here but I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you did not interprete my statement properly.  

I will repeat what I said before, we should not jump to conclusions when we merely have parts of an incident. Especially not, when the information comes via social media. The video in question cannot be compared with the George Floyd video or the video of the 75 year old man pushed to the ground in Buffalo. Those videos clearly show the circumstances, we know about the time, we know about the place. There is clear evidence of a wrongdoing, criminal action by the police. The German video? It says Mannheim. It doesn't make clear when the incident happened. Could have been in the past (interestingly I can find a report online from May, where 3 teenagers were arrested beause they attacked the police, when the police tried to clear an assembly of about 150 people because they were breaking the social distancing rules imposed). That's what I meant when I said we should be careful. There are people out there already hijacking this movement for their very own interests. 

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Sure Jan

 

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15 hours ago, karbatal said:

Guys please... Maybe violent racism is not as normal as in the USA but Europe is incredibly racist. Look what happened with the refugees. The illegal immigrants from central Africa being exploited in Spanish fields. The corona cases in slaughterhouses in Germany where immigrants lived in horrid conditions. Even then economic racism against South European countries from northern countries. And I'm not touching the UK issues with black communities, where children die by the dozens by stabbing from different gangs. In Paris during lockdown there were revolts in the neighbourhoods where poor Muslim people suffered brutality from police when asked why they were on the street.

That's why I find a bit hypocrite some of those marches for Floyd here in Europe. 

 

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58 minutes ago, Junior said:

 

Is this for realzzz???? Omg, such an unfortunate soul

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11 hours ago, Junior said:

 

Imagine being that hateful, vicious and racist. This Dave must feel dead inside to write such racist horrible garbage. . What a horrendous excuse for a person. 

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On 6/7/2020 at 6:40 PM, karbatal said:

I don't agree with much, but this is not the thread.

The point is that these demonstrations would be incredibly positive if focused on black or brown people being attacked, killed or let alone to die in our own countries. 

What's the point of marching if not? 

 

The point of marching is to highlight the racism present here too and there should be more marches of course but to say those Floyd marches over here in Europe are hypocritical because we don't march enough for other forms of racism it is wrong imo. And if you're disagreeing about the role of Italy welcoming people in during the past 25 years you're completely off the mark

It started with the 90s Yougoslavia situation and continued with the destruction and subjugation of the Middle East sold to the Western masses under a false guise

It was only in 2015 with the Syrian refugee situation that Northern European countries started to understand that it is not only something that needs to be dealt with by Southern European countries. And Merkel taking in 1m refugees etc

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On 6/7/2020 at 8:57 PM, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Well, I would like to argue that Germany is no more racist than any other country in the EU. But there is no question the UK and the USA is far more racist than Germany

 

👍

And for very specific historical reasons. That's why they work well together and occasionally team up on bogus brutal empire wars. On top of sponsoring one of the worst rogue states in the world. Saudi Arabia, a country that is de facto the incubator for ideological and material terrorism

The governments, not necessarily the people, although obviously you can have large segments of the population who might be racist

Racism and any feeling of hatred, any negative emotion or seeking to harm others for the sake of it can be found anywhere, it's part of the dark side of human nature. It is not based on nationality and casting stones is somewhat tricky because history teaches otherwise

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On 6/7/2020 at 6:54 PM, Kim said:

Well, I think that WAS Django's original point. Anyway, the "this country isn't quite as bad as that country" stuff is just a distraction. Institutional racism is everywhere, the tiny bit we happen to see filmed on mobile phones these days is nothing compared to what's actually going on, not to mention the really insidious, sneaky racism that almost goes unnoticed but is threaded through so much of society. One could almost say at least the US is honest about it, right there in broad daylight...

 

I agree that there are forms of insidious, sneaky racism here. I was not stating that Europe is racism free

I was trying to make a point about the drastic difference between the US and Europe, to have no accountability for police forces is not the same as living in a place that guarantees it.

You cannot shoot unarmed black people and be sure to walk away scot free. Also in Europe you don't have that toxic firearm culture

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i was about to post that.. i know they mean well, so this is just funny to me.. but why are they doing this after the backlash imagine got? looks like even the celebs pretending to be chill and down to earth are out of touch

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it is out of touch when celebrities do this. They come across as pandering to me, or like they are afraid of being cancelled for saying the wrong thing so they just go, "ok lets do this to avoid problems" ---which to me is a real problem, ....there is a sincerity, a connection, that I just don't see. It's a nice gesture, but where was all this energy before? The issue is nothing new. Let me not get started on Nancy Pelosi and crew wearing African scarves instead of having called for police reform decades ago. Like...what are you doing sweetie? 🙄

 

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On 6/11/2020 at 4:42 PM, eroticerotic said:

it is out of touch when celebrities do this. They come across as pandering to me, or like they are afraid of being cancelled for saying the wrong thing so they just go, "ok lets do this to avoid problems" ---which to me is a real problem, ....there is a sincerity, a connection, that I just don't see. It's a nice gesture, but where was all this energy before? The issue is nothing new. Let me not get started on Nancy Pelosi and crew wearing African scarves instead of having called for police reform decades ago. Like...what are you doing sweetie? 🙄

 

 

My thoughts exactly  :lol:

 

I understand by the concept of "being an ally" BUT THIS AINT IT! Just DO IT, don't give me a black & white montage.

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On 6/8/2020 at 6:41 PM, Junior said:

 

The irony of Bezos advocating for BLM while Amazon famously treats employees like slaves. Speaks volumes about the authenticity oft he BLM supporters

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ooooooooooooooooooooh USA  :doh:

 

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