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J.K. Rowling Faces Criticism for Transgender Comment

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9 hours ago, nefarious said:

I am a detransitioned butch lesbian woman. I identified as trans for 10 years because I hated being female and thought that made me a boy. It's been a hard journey into loving myself, to say the least (I've only just switched my gender marker on this website). I'm starting to undo the years of damage that gender ideology has done to me. I really do think butch lesbians and gender non-conforming kids in general are being pushed to transition - or, if that upsets you, perhaps "pushed" is the wrong word. Let's just say peer pressure and social media play a big part. I know I wouldn't have known such a thing as transition was possible without social media sucking me in with false promises.

Because I've experienced (and still struggle with) gender dysphoria, I have enormous sympathy and respect for trans people. And just because I was wrong in my transition, doesn't mean their journey is the same. Still, I have to say, I stand Jk on this one. Biological sex is a fact. Women are oppressed because of their biological sex, not their "identity", and they deserve sex separate spaces away from men.

You may disagree with me and that's okay. Can we just agree that the issue really isn't black and white, to say the least.

Of course everyone has a story. About very serious issues. I hope you get psychologically better. 

And just like "it's not all black and white" it would be important to say that transgender women are not fighting for the right to menstruate, but mainly to be able to be recognised as woman in administrative matters. Also to bring awareness of the bullying and discrimination they suffer. Let's not fall in Rowling's trap here. It would be like demanding the right to have gay couples recognised and some bigot speaking of surrogate parenthood. Two very different issues.

 

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I'm disappointed but not surprised by JK. She's been saying some problematic shits for a few years now.

I'm a gay man and I'd NEVER understood  the struggle of trans people . I just didn't think the trans world existed . I didn't and refused to understand it .

Until a year 1/2 ago one  of my male friends told me he was in the process of transitioning . He is now a she . At 39 .

Now everyday I'm leaning about the trans community and their struggle and for JK to be saying shit like she would have been forced by social / peer pressure to transition if she had been

born 30 years later is just beyond ignorant . No JK you would still be a WOMAN . It just means that now people have the freedom to choose and they have a choice and they can make

that  choice without being KILLED ( BUT they are still being killed though ) . It doesn't mean we see the struggle of women any less or that women will be less safe . It just means 

that now more people ( trans , women , kids ) will ALL BE SAFE . 

When I read this ( that she wrote ) my heart just sank . Why can't we fight for trans' right and women's right at the same time ? I don't get it .

"So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth," 

And many Harry Potter stars have come out to support the Trans community which am glad to see.

https://ew.com/movies/every-harry-potter-actor-whos-spoken-out-against-j-k-rowlings-controversial-transgender-comments/

 

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57 minutes ago, Butter9 said:

I'm disappointed but not surprised by JK. She's been saying some problematic shits for a few years now.

I'm a gay man and I'd NEVER understood  the struggle of trans people . I just didn't think the trans world existed . I didn't and refused to understand it .

Until a year 1/2 ago one  of my male friends told me he was in the process of transitioning . He is now a she . At 39 .

Now everyday I'm leaning about the trans community and their struggle and for JK to be saying shit like she would have been forced by social / peer pressure to transition if she had been

born 30 years later is just beyond ignorant . No JK you would still be a WOMAN . It just means that now people have the freedom to choose and they have a choice and they can make

that  choice without being KILLED ( BUT they are still being killed though ) . It doesn't mean we see the struggle of women any less or that women will be less safe . It just means 

that now more people ( trans , women , kids ) will ALL BE SAFE . 

When I read this ( that she wrote ) my heart just sank . Why can't we fight for trans' right and women's right at the same time ? I don't get it .

"So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth," 

And many Harry Potter stars have come out to support the Trans community which am glad to see.

https://ew.com/movies/every-harry-potter-actor-whos-spoken-out-against-j-k-rowlings-controversial-transgender-comments/

 

The speech "but I don't want natal women and children be less safe" equals the line "the family will disappear if gay marriage is approved". As if the existence of one thing put the other in danger. 

Pure TRANSPHOBIA disguised as feminism. 

I'm glad you're being so supportive for your friend , Butterbabe

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4 minutes ago, karbatal said:

The speech "but I don't want natal women and children be less safe" equals the line "the family will disappear if gay marriage is approved". As if the existence of one thing put the other in danger. 

Pure TRANSPHOBIA disguised as feminism. 

I'm glad you're being so supportive for your friend , Butterbabe

YES ! My jaw kind of hit the floor when I read that. Try replacing the word trans with homosexual and we, might be back in the dark ages . 

And no this is not some ' woke ' shit . We have to evolve as people . Not too long ago same sex marriage was not even an option so what is the difference between supporting  trans

community and support  gay community or any other minority community for that matter . It does no harm to the straight community .

You don't die because you're  straight but you have higher risk of being killed when you're trans so I find JK's view to be a little limited and not all that worldly . 

It's quite amazing when you think who SHE IS and how HUGE her platform is .

 

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It's hard not to interpret her rhetoric as something other than J.K. saying in an implicit way that she doesn't want trans women to stake their collective claim to her identity, as a trans woman's experience of being a woman is different from hers and therefore of dubious validity. It's true that trans women cannot know what it's like to menstruate, to be socialized as girls, to move through the world as unmistakable females and to be treated as such from birth, etc., but isn't this all unrevelatory? Doesn't bringing it up ad nauseam just further propagate a cruel notion that trans women are basically just approximations of women, women facsimiled? It's cruel, and it's gate-keeping, and it's a bit confounding as I can't imagine being trans to feel like a day at the beach or a walk in the park. Theirs is just a womanhood of a different kind, fraught with challenges that may or not always be dissimilar, and they're not really denying such differences, as far as I know, so I still don't know why she and others like her feel so threatened by trans women hoping to take their places at the very broad table of... people who are not men.

I am, though, so maybe this is just speculation and conjecture that could mean everything or nothing. It's a discussion worth having, though, with some tact, and I wish people were able to weigh in on it without being righteously indignant or overly unsympathetic.

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What really surprises me though is that not many transgender women pass as women. Their fight is not the ceiling glass, inequalities... It's the right to be considered a woman, because they were born women in a man's body. It has a name: gender dysphoria. They're not complaining about less wages than a man. They are complaining they are not hired because of being transexual. 

Let's always remember this when all the Karens in the world start their hate. Trans women aren't there to take your freedom. They're fighting for their right TO EXISTS without discrimination. 

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In this instance I do agree with JK Rowling.

I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so.

The idea that women like me, who’ve been empathetic to trans people for decades, feeling kinship because they’re vulnerable in the same way as women - ie, to male violence - ‘hate’ trans people because they think sex is real and has lived consequences - is a nonsense.

If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth.

Rather than trying to force the concept of male or female on trans people, I feel like we should be acknowledging and accepting them for who they are. Statements such as "trans women are real women" are asinine because it links gender identity to femininity or masculinity. What defines a "real" woman then? What does it mean to be trans? As a trans-female are you only a "woman" if you display feminine traits? Or does it mean that you've had gender reassignment surgery? Neither is a condition by which a person needs to justify the gender pronoun they choose. I struggle to see what the problem is with JK Rowling's position?  I genuinely don't know so I would really like to hear from any trans members on the forum to share their views on the topic.

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^ trans women are real women and there's even a name for being born in the wrong body. Gender dysphoria. 

Not believing it is the equivalent to not believing that you are born gay or lesbian or bi. 

Just the same that a gay person can't help being attracted to people of their same sex, trans people  can't help feeling a sex different to what their genitals say. 

And very nice of JK to "march" with trans for being discriminated for being trans. Funny because she's never done it.

What really irks me and the reason why I answer in this thread over and over is that no trans woman would fight for the right of being considered a menstrual mammal. And yet that's what this absurda and other people bring about biology. 

THEY FIGHT TO NOT BEING DISCRIMINATED NOT FOR THEIR RIGHT TO BUY A TAMPAX. 

They simply hate trans woman. Period.

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5 minutes ago, karbatal said:

^ trans women are real women and there's even a name for being born in the wrong body. Gender dysphoria. 

Not believing it is the equivalent to not believing that you are born gay or lesbian or bi. 

Just the same that a gay person can't help being attracted to people of their same sex, trans people  can't help feeling a sex different to what their genitals say. 

And very nice of JK to "march" with trans for being discriminated for being trans. Funny because she's never done it.

What really irks me and the reason why I answer in this thread over and over is that no trans woman would fight for the right of being considered a menstrual mammal. And yet that's what this absurda and other people bring about biology. 

THEY FIGHT TO NOT BEING DISCRIMINATED NOT FOR THEIR RIGHT TO BUY A TAMPAX. 

They simply hate trans woman. Period.

Your arguments are not comparable. I’m not saying transsexualism isn’t real and to my perspective neither is JK Rowling. I completely acknowledge that transgendered people align their gender to the opposite biological/physical sex due to reasons not completely understood by modern science. I completely agree that they should not be discriminated for that either. Stating that transgendered people are transgendered is not discriminatory though. It’s simply stating a fact? Can you elaborate on what a “real” woman is and who “they” is that hates trans women?

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44 minutes ago, Napoléon said:

Your arguments are not comparable. I’m not saying transsexualism isn’t real and to my perspective neither is JK Rowling. I completely acknowledge that transgendered people align their gender to the opposite biological/physical sex due to reasons not completely understood by modern science. I completely agree that they should not be discriminated for that either. Stating that transgendered people are transgendered is not discriminatory though. It’s simply stating a fact? Can you elaborate on what a “real” woman is and who “they” is that hates trans women?

This reminds me to the whole "let gay marry but let's not call it marriage". So let's clap trans but they are not women...

Semantics have always been a weapon against LGTB. 

And I'm not saying that you are against LGTB. My comments go to the JKs of the world.

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17 hours ago, Napoléon said:

Your arguments are not comparable. I’m not saying transsexualism isn’t real and to my perspective neither is JK Rowling. I completely acknowledge that transgendered people align their gender to the opposite biological/physical sex due to reasons not completely understood by modern science. I completely agree that they should not be discriminated for that either. Stating that transgendered people are transgendered is not discriminatory though. It’s simply stating a fact? Can you elaborate on what a “real” woman is and who “they” is that hates trans women?

I see the essence of what your saying. The issue is complex and is hyper sensitive across the board. The issue with what JK said is that it was a sentence and a short reference that can be taken as transphobic.

I think the consensus is if someone refers to a trans person as just that trans it is received negatively as a trans person has always been the gender they have chosen to become, not the gender they were born with. 

My issue with the whole debate considering JK Rowling and previous debates around the trans issue is what consummates transphobia? What is phobia anyway? What is homophobia? 

Well a phobia is fear if we are getting into the dictionary terminology.

To me though it’s being negative with intention towards a trans person or a gay person. Some would consider all opposing opinions towards gay people homophobic, so anybody who doesn’t agree with it for religious reasons for one example they are a homophobe.

I go to church sometimes and I have friends who attend who have an opposing view from me as I am gay but I do not class these people as homophobes.

Some people have the opinion gay people shouldn’t marry. Again dependant upon the individual some would snap back and say your homophobic whilst others, like me, see it as an opinion. A narrow minded opinion but still an opinion.

If someone is shouting discriminatory language to me on the street that I’m a fag that should die, well that goes from someone’s opinion to being hateful with intent. If someone incites harm to others for being gay or takes action against someone’s life for instance calling them names that’s homophobic.

That’s just a very short perspective purely of ME I understand and accept some other gay people consider all religious people and homophobes straight away for the opinion they hold, and that’s okay it’s a belief we all have them!

Back to the issue of trans. I have many friends who have both had and are having treatment to become the gender they were born as in their minds and hearts. I fully accept my friend is a man as much as I am, not a trans man just a man. But my personal belief is if someone believes the biology purely and not the fact that people are actually able to be born as a sex they go on to become and not the sex their bodies are I do not treat it as transphobic.

I am not trans and I will not speak for them but there is a marked difference to having the opinion (my opinion is it is ignorant and not progressive) as oppose to someone who is cruel who will verbally or physically hurt a trans person. Not hate just the opinion they are a transitional male/female based on biology ideas. 

But it is an opinion and I don’t base someones gender on their biology I base it on what’s in their heads but some people don’t. Not all those people are hateful towards trans or the community and whilst it may not be the opinion of some it is the opinion of others.

I don’t believe JK has been transphobic she has voiced an opinion regarding biology and basing that round her own life and how she feels. Not everyone agrees but some do.

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Rowling has been barely commenting about any important issue and she chooses to comment a stupid piece of news written by a stupid journalist who instead of write WOMEN decided to write something along "people who menstruate". She could have commented that absurdity instead of attacking trans people AGAIN. People who have nothing to do with that piece of news and whose goals is not precisely to menstruate. 
 

She can fuck off. And everybody ready to debate on human rights instead of supporting them can fuck off too

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4 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Rowling has been barely commenting about any important issue and she chooses to comment a stupid piece of news written by a stupid journalist who instead of write WOMEN decided to write something along "people who menstruate". She could have commented that absurdity instead of attacking trans people AGAIN. People who have nothing to do with that piece of news and whose goals is not precisely to menstruate. 
 

She can fuck off. And everybody ready to debate on human rights instead of supporting them can fuck off too

Great point Karbatal. That ridiculous heading of “ people who menstruate” was deliberately done to create unnecessary drama.  The article was not about transgender people but they have been cruelly dragged into this and now unfairly maligned. Manipulate and inflaming wording. 

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44 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Great point Karbatal. That ridiculous heading of “ people who menstruate” was deliberately done to create unnecessary drama.  The article was not about transgender people but they have been cruelly dragged into this and now unfairly maligned. Manipulate and inflaming wording. 

Yes

I always love when you agree with me :lol: I consider you the voice of the reason

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3 hours ago, karbatal said:

Rowling has been barely commenting about any important issue and she chooses to comment a stupid piece of news written by a stupid journalist who instead of write WOMEN decided to write something along "people who menstruate". She could have commented that absurdity instead of attacking trans people AGAIN. People who have nothing to do with that piece of news and whose goals is not precisely to menstruate. 

She's actually been going on about this for a while. This woman fights against every progressive policy the Scottish govt introduces. This latest stunt is a reaction to the recent govt guidelines on gender representation that include recognition that  ‘trans women are women’. 

I've lifted this article which gives a good (balanced) overview of the issue.

Why is JK Rowling speaking out now on sex and gender debate?

The Harry Potter author has published a 3,600-word essay setting out in more detail than before the development of her already well-known stance in sex and gender debates. In it, she reveals for the first time her own experience of sexual assault and domestic violence which, Rowling explains, she felt compelled to write about after reading of the Scottish government’s latest progress towards changing gender recognition laws.

 “I couldn’t shut out those memories [of my own assault] and I was finding it hard to contain my anger and disappointment about the way I believe my government is playing fast and loose with women’s and girls’ safety,” she wrote.

Rowling underlines that she also wants trans women to be safe. Many other women who share her views likewise insist transgender people have the right to equality and dignity. But beyond this there is huge disagreement about how different positions – whether those of transgender activists or gender-critical feminists – express that commitment in practice, and indeed what the nuances of those different positions are.

Gender critical feminists disagree with the trans rights activists’ view that gender identity is separate from one’s biological sex, and that it should be given priority in terms of law-making and policy. They fear that sex is being argued into non-existence and that this will erode rights hard-won by women in the face of historical biological discrimination.

Others regard the focus on biological sex as transphobic. They argue that while they do not deny the reality of biological sex there must be a recognition of complexities beyond binary definition, and that people should have the right to privacy around their sex characteristics at birth (as was agreed in the European convention on human rights in 2002, which led to the current Gender Recognition Act).

Can a person change their gender at will nowadays?

Rowling says many people do not know that “a man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a gender recognition certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law”. But this has been the case since initial gender recognition legislation was passed in 2004, under which the only legal requirement for changing a birth certificate is proof of living in one’s preferred gender.

The Scottish government’s proposals – which have been put on hold for the duration of the pandemic – remove the current requirement for applicants to provide medical evidence of their diagnosis of gender dysphoria, but other checks and balances remain. Those applying for a gender recognition certificate are entering into a legal agreement to live in their preferred gender for the rest of their life – any breach of this is punishable with up to two years in prison – and there remains a requirement that a person has lived in the acquired gender for three months before signing the statutory declaration, and waits for a further three-month reflection period before the certificate is granted.

Are women-only spaces under threat?

Rowling says that “when you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman … then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside”.

Those supportive of transgender law reform argue that anxiety around single sex-spaces relates to women’s understandable lack of faith in how seriously violence against them is dealt with. Organisations such as Rape Crisis Scotland and Women’s Aid Scotland have operated trans-inclusive policies with few reported problems. Transgender groups point out that they still make up only 0.6% of the population and that “the amount of obsession over where we pee is disproportionate to the likelihood of bumping into one of us”.

Others express the concern that the spectrum of people who identify particularly as trans women is expanding to include male-appearing people who – rightly or wrongly – might be perceived as a threat, and feel sceptical about whether inclusion policies have been properly tested or if individual cis women will be too afraid or uncomfortable to challenge male-bodied people in their spaces.

Is there evidence that more young people are transitioning, and then regretting it?

The problem is that there has been no systematic tracking in the UK of what happens to people after transitioning, so it is hard to offer evidence other than the anecdotal. Rowling refers to a controversial US paper that questions whether transgender identification in teenagers could be a form of social contagion. She notes that “the UK has experienced a 4,400% increase in girls being referred for transitioning treatment”.

Critics of Rowling say it is easy to exaggerate demand because the percentages involved are already so tiny. According to the Scottish Trans Alliance, it is estimated that less than 0.1% of under-18s in Scotland have been referred to a gender identity clinic, and the majority of them will receive psychological support at this stage. STA also reports that the numbers of people de-transitioning are “a handful”.

Has the debate become irreconcilable/too toxic to move forward?

Rowling describes the online threats and abuse she has encountered since making her position clear about two years ago, something that many others who speak out on transgender rights, whether supportively or critically, have also reported.

Equalities organisations insist that supporting transgender rights should not and must not excuse abusive behaviour, but also make a plea not to conflate angry and anonymous voices online with organised campaigners: it is dangerous to decide the merits of equality principles based on what is said on Twitter.

There is also concern that, when a woman of such influence and popularity as Rowling sets out a critical position, then the wider public, who are largely supportive of transgender people according to most recent British Social Attitudes research, may begin to question their fundamental rights.

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Her view on the issue is quite regressive . I'm sorry she was sexually assaulted and have had to experience domestic violence at a hand of a man I presumed .

She can advocate for women / girl' s right to safety but don't bring trans people into it . They are not making you less of a woman and more importantly they are not

dictating on how YOU should live your life so why do you think it's your business to tell them how they should live theirs ? 

JK says she support safety of trans women , at the same time she thinks their basic human rights should be denied .The right  to be who they are .

How does she view trans women's position in society ? 

How can we protect women and girls AS WELL AS trans women and other marginalised minority groups  who deserve equal rights to safety and shouldn't be denied

the basic human rights that can be afforded to everyone else .

 Trans people face discriminations  , sexism , hate crimes and in worse cases they get killed  (  331 + trans were killed in 2019 worldwide ,compared  to 369 in 2018 ) . 

( I'm not even going to go into the gay movement / trans movement that leads to pedophilia or children are being forced into transitioning etc  which is completely

crazy , based on unrealistic statistics and will make everything worst for ALL of us as a human race.) 

 

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What has the aggression she suffered as young with trans women? I see no correlation, because domestic violence policies will not be less effective if trans are considered women. 

I feel I am missing something and I really don't want to offend any woman here. I will only say that I am glad that the LGBT community includes trans, I'm very glad that recent years trans people were vindicated as the heroes of LGTB early and recent fights and that young people have a more open approach about transgender women and men. 

Also I'm glad that so many feminists are calling out this other ideology explained by JK. 

And I find nauseating that The Sun has tracked down her abuser. That newspaper should be banned!

Oh and this... ""Rowling describes the online threats and abuse she has encountered since making her position clear about two years ago, something that many others who speak out on transgender rights, whether supportively or critically, have also reported." It's clear that K stands for Karen. 

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whistle

 

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whistle

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On 6/11/2020 at 4:58 PM, karbatal said:

^ 1.trans women are real women and there's even a name for being born in the wrong body. Gender dysphoria. 

2.Not believing it is the equivalent to not believing that you are born gay or lesbian or bi. 

3.Just the same that a gay person can't help being attracted to people of their same sex, trans people  can't help feeling a sex different to what their genitals say. 

And very nice of JK to "march" with trans for being discriminated for being trans. Funny because she's never done it.

4..What really irks me and the reason why I answer in this thread over and over is that no trans woman would fight for the right of being considered a menstrual mammal. And yet that's what this absurda and other people bring about biology. 

THEY FIGHT TO NOT BEING DISCRIMINATED NOT FOR THEIR RIGHT TO BUY A TAMPAX. 

They simply hate trans woman. Period.

whistle

 

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whistle

 

 

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whistle

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whistle

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Your messages are so absurd. Are you Lady Gaga? 

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oh wow this thread. 

It's middle-aged again. :doh:

Gay self-loathing hasn't gone away and that's painful to watch (and to read). 
When your only argument is reddit.com it says a lot about the type of person you are. 

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I actually feel sick reading some of the stuff above, most of it copied verbatim from anti-trans hate sites.

The issue here (that bigot Rowling is tackling) is about making it a little easier for trans people to obtain their gender recognition certificate, that's all - all the other stuff is already entrenched in the human rights act, and guess what, the world continues to turn, the sky hasn't fallen.

All the dog whistle tropes being spewed forth in here are repulsive, and most of all harmful and have no place in this forum.

Get the fuck out of here @Andgon144

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did the number of posts you need to have to access the pop princess forum change? maybe he's one of those M haters/gaga fans making as many posts as he can to view the forum

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22 minutes ago, Nikki said:

did the number of posts you need to have to access the pop princess forum change? maybe he's one of those M haters/gaga fans making as many posts as he can to view the forum

I doubt it, there are easier ways of doing that than posting essays and videos of transphobic crap (which have been replaced with (dog) whistles)

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