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I certainly can't add anything new here about MTV and the state of music in general that already hasn't been better said, but it just makes me sad. In the '80s, we of course had Tina's magnificent comeback, but also artists like The Moody Blues, The Grateful Dead, Starship, Ozzy, the Stones, Bowie, Cher, etc. were played on pop radio right along with younger up-and-comers like Prince, Michael and... Madonna! Pop music was what was popular, regardless of who the artist was or their age. 

The fucking Monkees had a hit! 

Now marketers call the shots, dividing art and artists into silly categories. The grammies will award you a trophy for best tropical latin-jazz country line-dancing performance by a duo or group or DJ or marching band with vocals! Everyone has their narrow column to fill. Pop culture isn't organic anymore or rarely is. It's marketers selling product to a generation consumed with consuming. I mean, getting paid as an influencer selling shit products to poorer young people? MTV is now the biggest pusher of this nonsense where they used to at least give some equal coverage to counter-culture. 

Meh, I am babbling, but again—sad. 

Now off to enjoy the last few days of Madame X radio. Yay, Hung Up. Fitting! 🙂 

 

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2 hours ago, Priceless said:

I agree that Warner's promoted her music to radio and MTV (back in the day) so they could fatten the bottom line. But now that she's with Interscope, who knows what their arrangement is? I think we all see that Madonna is not treated like Interscope's other artists; it's entirely possible that if she's generating her own music video budget, it's not out of the realm of possibility that she and her team are also responsible for the costs of promoting her music to various industry outlets. And she simply might have looked at that line item in the budget and said "nope." I'm just speculating, as I am not an industry insider.

Btw, the note I referenced is below. I think (but I'm not positive) that "Russ and Stu" are Russ Rieger and Stu Bergen (Maverick and Warner executives, respectively.)

TAB.PNG

Thanks, @Priceless, for sharing this! How sweet she wrote a handwritten note ... love that!

Yes, absolutely, there is a difference in Interscope vs. Warner — but part of that lies in the arrangement through Live Nation. I think we were noticing that, since leaving Warner, Madonna’s music is “under temporary license” to Interscope. So, it’s not permanently their property — and thus, they seem less invested in promoting it. They treat it like a distribution deal or something. 

In the past, Madonna would be advanced the money from the label to fund the video budgets, but then she shifted units — lots of units — and that money went to the label to pay back their initial investment. The label would be paid off, and then Madonna would start making money off of the profits once the advance was paid back.

So, that’s why Madonna would always talk about how it was, in effect, her money paying for the video. It was like she had a loan from the label, but she had to pay it back. If she didn’t sell enough, she could have ended up owing the record label money. 

Nowadays, with the state of the industry and the pop landscape in general, Interscope may not be willing to advance as much — but that’s just speculation on my part. So, yes, she has probably resorted to her own version of crowdfunding her video budgets. 

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1 hour ago, Mozo1 said:

I certainly can't add anything new here about MTV and the state of music in general that already hasn't been better said, but it just makes me sad. In the '80s, we of course had Tina's magnificent comeback, but also artists like The Moody Blues, The Grateful Dead, Starship, Ozzy, the Stones, Bowie, Cher, etc. were played on pop radio right along with younger up-and-comers like Prince, Michael and... Madonna! Pop music was what was popular, regardless of who the artist was or their age. 

The fucking Monkees had a hit! 

Now marketers call the shots, dividing art and artists into silly categories. The grammies will award you a trophy for best tropical latin-jazz country line-dancing performance by a duo or group or DJ or marching band with vocals! Everyone has their narrow column to fill. Pop culture isn't organic anymore or rarely is. It's marketers selling product to a generation consumed with consuming. I mean, getting paid as an influencer selling shit products to poorer young people? MTV is now the biggest pusher of this nonsense where they used to at least give some equal coverage to counter-culture. 

Meh, I am babbling, but again—sad. 

Now off to enjoy the last few days of Madame X radio. Yay, Hung Up. Fitting! 🙂 

 

The Monkees and all those artists were in their 40s in the 80s though.  Madonna had a BUNCH of hits and MTV support in her 40s

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mozo1 said:

I certainly can't add anything new here about MTV and the state of music in general that already hasn't been better said, but it just makes me sad. In the '80s, we of course had Tina's magnificent comeback, but also artists like The Moody Blues, The Grateful Dead, Starship, Ozzy, the Stones, Bowie, Cher, etc. were played on pop radio right along with younger up-and-comers like Prince, Michael and... Madonna! Pop music was what was popular, regardless of who the artist was or their age. 

The fucking Monkees had a hit! 

Now marketers call the shots, dividing art and artists into silly categories. The grammies will award you a trophy for best tropical latin-jazz country line-dancing performance by a duo or group or DJ or marching band with vocals! Everyone has their narrow column to fill. Pop culture isn't organic anymore or rarely is. It's marketers selling product to a generation consumed with consuming. I mean, getting paid as an influencer selling shit products to poorer young people? MTV is now the biggest pusher of this nonsense where they used to at least give some equal coverage to counter-culture. 

Meh, I am babbling, but again—sad. 

Now off to enjoy the last few days of Madame X radio. Yay, Hung Up. Fitting! 🙂 

 

Well said — glad you contributed to the conversation, @Mozo1! Makes me sad, too. 

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1 minute ago, Samo said:

The Monkees and all those artists were in their 40s in the 80s though.  Madonna had a BUNCH of hits and MTV support in her 40s

 

 

But life expectancy was different back then. Someone’s 40s then were like 60s now.

Edit to add that Madonna broke in her early 20s, but then, after her, the Britneys and Xtinas came along in their teens... the gap just widened, too, which makes Madonna’s challenges and achievements that much greater.

Edited by peter
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4 hours ago, Mozo1 said:

I certainly can't add anything new here about MTV and the state of music in general that already hasn't been better said, but it just makes me sad. In the '80s, we of course had Tina's magnificent comeback, but also artists like The Moody Blues, The Grateful Dead, Starship, Ozzy, the Stones, Bowie, Cher, etc. were played on pop radio right along with younger up-and-comers like Prince, Michael and... Madonna! Pop music was what was popular, regardless of who the artist was or their age. 

The fucking Monkees had a hit! 

Now marketers call the shots, dividing art and artists into silly categories. The grammies will award you a trophy for best tropical latin-jazz country line-dancing performance by a duo or group or DJ or marching band with vocals! Everyone has their narrow column to fill. Pop culture isn't organic anymore or rarely is. It's marketers selling product to a generation consumed with consuming. I mean, getting paid as an influencer selling shit products to poorer young people? MTV is now the biggest pusher of this nonsense where they used to at least give some equal coverage to counter-culture. 

Meh, I am babbling, but again—sad. 

Now off to enjoy the last few days of Madame X radio. Yay, Hung Up. Fitting! 🙂 

 

Agree totally.   Wish you would post more in the Madonna section as your posts are always insightful and interesting.  :clap:

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4 hours ago, Samo said:

The Monkees and all those artists were in their 40s in the 80s though.  Madonna had a BUNCH of hits and MTV support in her 40s

 

 

Yes, for sure. She had ROL and Music, then begins the narrowing of her airplay.The reception to her having an opinion on Bush obviously also hurt with American Life, but pop radio has been ignoring her since she dared to live past her 30s. The USA reception to COADF compared to the rest of the fucking world was embarrassing. Hung Up peaked at 7?  Sorry was ignored. Sad. And then there's the sexism, too, of course. 

And thanks to @Jazzy Jan and @peter, too. I appreciate your kind words and posts, too! 💋💋💋

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1 hour ago, Mozo1 said:

Yes, for sure. She had ROL and Music, then begins the narrowing of her airplay.The reception to her having an opinion on Bush obviously also hurt with American Life, but pop radio has been ignoring her since she dared to live past her 30s. The USA reception to COADF compared to the rest of the fucking world was embarrassing. Hung Up peaked at 7?  Sorry was ignored. Sad. And then there's the sexism, too, of course. 

And thanks to @Jazzy Jan and @peter, too. I appreciate your kind words and posts, too! 💋💋💋

Yeah. The US was literally the only place in the world where Hung Up wasn't a huge hit. She was still getting the backlash from AL and there was definitely no disco music on US radio at the time.

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16 hours ago, Mozo1 said:

Yes, for sure. She had ROL and Music, then begins the narrowing of her airplay.The reception to her having an opinion on Bush obviously also hurt with American Life, but pop radio has been ignoring her since she dared to live past her 30s. The USA reception to COADF compared to the rest of the fucking world was embarrassing. Hung Up peaked at 7?  Sorry was ignored. Sad. And then there's the sexism, too, of course. 

And thanks to @Jazzy Jan and @peter, too. I appreciate your kind words and posts, too! 💋💋💋

I don't know, Ray of Light, Power Of Goodbye, Beautiful Stranger,American Pie, Music, Don't Tell Me, Die Another Day and 4 Minutes, were all pretty big hita at US radio that Madonna had at 40 plus

 

Me Against the Music and Hung Up were moderately successful at US radio

 

She just no longer had non stop US radio hits like she did in the 80s and 90s but that is EVERYBODY in their 40s, in fact Madonna has more radio hits at US radio in her 40s than any other female artist.

 

Tina Turer had about 6 radio hits in her 40s, Cher had about 4, Whitney, Janet, Celine and Mariah ,0 

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On 7/28/2019 at 12:59 AM, peter said:

I’ve never seen that — or else I’m not remembering it. Where did you see this, if you don’t mind my asking and can remember? Would be interested in reading it, too. Thanks!

I don’t disagree with most of what you wrote. I think she lost some/many connections when she and Warner parted ways. I also think she has sort of set her face in a new direction in terms of what videos she will make — not necessarily “singles” in the traditional sense, but those tracks on the album which have a visual/cinematic potential for her, or which have an important message to which she wants to lend extra weight.

I am not so sure about her “not wanting to spend the money on that” — in the past, the record company wanted their artists to succeed, and so marketing budgets were allocated in that way. Sure, like with the videos, some of that marketing money *was* Madonna’s, because that’s how advances work. She needed to shift product in order to earn back the money/investment in her work. But I don’t think it was ever a case where M was saying, “I’ll give up my video budget and scrap that fourth single video if you guys will hire more promo team members to make my second single a bigger hit.” That’s just what the label team did as a matter of course — promote their artists to radio.

 

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On 7/23/2019 at 5:54 PM, vertigokane said:

No nominations in any category. Not surprised, but almost unbelievable given the quality of her output this era.

Here’s the full list:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/awards/8523471/2019-mtv-vma-nominations-video-music-awards-ariana-grande-taylor-swift

What a fucking Joke not one nomination I can't believe that, Madonna is more outstanding than any of those Attists at least her Music and videos have real meaning and the quality was way more impressive. It's all the usual expected people for the bubblegumers.

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21 hours ago, Samo said:

I don't know, Ray of Light, Power Of Goodbye, Beautiful Stranger,American Pie, Music, Don't Tell Me, Die Another Day and 4 Minutes, were all pretty big hita at US radio that Madonna had at 40 plus

 

Me Against the Music and Hung Up were moderately successful at US radio

 

She just no longer had non stop US radio hits like she did in the 80s and 90s but that is EVERYBODY in their 40s, in fact Madonna has more radio hits at US radio in her 40s than any other female artist.

 

Tina Turer had about 6 radio hits in her 40s, Cher had about 4, Whitney, Janet, Celine and Mariah ,0 

Yes, today EVERYBODY in their 40s gets shuffled off onto different formats which was my unclear point, while in the 80s people in their 40s were getting hits 20 years into some of their careers. 

After AL, everything became a struggle, partly for the controversy itself and then due to the bucketing of music into narrower and narrower niches. M. certainly had her share of indelible hits, but it's impossible to break out big when radio ignores you as they began doing.

 

It just sucks that Madonna inarguably has made millions and millions for a genre that flat out refuses to give her spins nowadays. 

Such is life. Stupid Life! 🙂

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On 7/28/2019 at 12:05 AM, frzndrwnwrld said:

Yeah. The US was literally the only place in the world where Hung Up wasn't a huge hit. She was still getting the backlash from AL and there was definitely no disco music on US radio at the time.

Totally. Hung Up was played in every club I went to - gay & straight. Even the hippest of hipsters loved the video. 

And 7? Boo! 

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11 hours ago, Mozo1 said:

Yes, today EVERYBODY in their 40s gets shuffled off onto different formats which was my unclear point, while in the 80s people in their 40s were getting hits 20 years into some of their careers. 

After AL, everything became a struggle, partly for the controversy itself and then due to the bucketing of music into narrower and narrower niches. M. certainly had her share of indelible hits, but it's impossible to break out big when radio ignores you as they began doing.

 

It just sucks that Madonna inarguably has made millions and millions for a genre that flat out refuses to give her spins nowadays. 

Such is life. Stupid Life! 🙂

Yes! I miss when radio was a mix of all different types of music and people of different ages. 

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35 minutes ago, frzndrwnwrld said:

Yes! I miss when radio was a mix of all different types of music and people of different ages. 

On my radio station they play "all different types of music and people of different ages". But when they play Madonna they only play her older stuff like Who's That Girl, Like a Prayer, Holiday, La Isla Bonita, and American Pie. 🙄

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On 7/29/2019 at 8:47 AM, zephyralexxx said:

I was always sure he was the bitch one and not M, as Janet always suggested. 😄

Most definitely. 

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