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3 hours ago, Querelle said:

It doesn't matter if he has serious issues. He undoubtedly co-wrote the song and deserves co-writing credits and proper payment. GC is one of the most important songs of the album decisively shapes Madonna's show.

Did I say he doesn’t? Just because he might deserve it doesn’t mean he deserves to be a total FUCKTARD to madonna about it. 

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4 minutes ago, HolidayGuy said:

The Sticky & Sweet Tour DVD included all those samples, so surely that would have cost more than using the whole LDLHA performance for the RH Tour? Especially as M recorded LDLHA and used the music from her own recording.

Some licenses are cheaper than others. I'm not that familiar with copyright, but as I've heard, live performances are much cheaper for licensing than commercial usage. There is no plausible reason, why this highlight of the show (also vocally!) did not appear on DVD/CD, as the licenses were too expensive.

 

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i'm not really sure why this had to be so public or so messy. it's not like he's taylor swift fighting for her masters. putting aside my disappointment that madonna obviously didn't contribute a whole lot to my favorite part of the song, spooner clearly says that mirwais had a "clear concept, lyric, and melody" - so it seems like he cleaned up mirwais's english, which is more like translating than "co-writing," and was the demo singer. mirwais ended up giving the track to madonna, which is something he's done with his own songs in the past. it might be true that legally he had to get casey's permission in order to do that, but madonna's team was very generous to more than double their initial offer and 15% of the royalties. sorry it's not 1995, casey. record sales are in the toilet and madonna doesn't do well with streaming - so you're going after her touring revenue? if you're in it for the money, maybe work with taylor and not mirwais next time? 

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18 minutes ago, bardo said:

i'm not really sure why this had to be so public or so messy. it's not like he's taylor swift fighting for her masters. putting aside my disappointment that madonna obviously didn't contribute a whole lot to my favorite part of the song, spooner clearly says that mirwais had a "clear concept, lyric, and melody" - so it seems like he cleaned up mirwais's english, which is more like translating than "co-writing," and was the demo singer. mirwais ended up giving the track to madonna, which is something he's done with his own songs in the past. it might be true that legally he had to get casey's permission in order to do that, but madonna's team was very generous to more than double their initial offer and 15% of the royalties. sorry it's not 1995, casey. record sales are in the toilet and madonna doesn't do well with streaming - so you're going after her touring revenue? if you're in it for the money, maybe work with taylor and not mirwais next time? 

Agreed!

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47 minutes ago, bardo said:

 so it seems like he cleaned up mirwais's english, which is more like translating than "co-writing,"

If it were that easy, you could use Google Translate to translate foreign books and songs. We all know that this does not work very well, because translation is a complex and creative process, especially when it comes to lyrical texts that are not only subject to a certain rhythm, but also make substantive demands.

To use a quote: "Translation is an art because the translator tries to find out what is meant in one language, and then basically paints a picture of what is meant in the other language." It is simply ignorant not to appreciate the art of translating lyrical texts and pretend that everyone is capable of doing so, because that's absolutely not the case.

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2 hours ago, bardo said:

i'm not really sure why this had to be so public or so messy. it's not like he's taylor swift fighting for her masters. putting aside my disappointment that madonna obviously didn't contribute a whole lot to my favorite part of the song, spooner clearly says that mirwais had a "clear concept, lyric, and melody" - so it seems like he cleaned up mirwais's english, which is more like translating than "co-writing," and was the demo singer. mirwais ended up giving the track to madonna, which is something he's done with his own songs in the past. it might be true that legally he had to get casey's permission in order to do that, but madonna's team was very generous to more than double their initial offer and 15% of the royalties. sorry it's not 1995, casey. record sales are in the toilet and madonna doesn't do well with streaming - so you're going after her touring revenue? if you're in it for the money, maybe work with taylor and not mirwais next time? 

:clap:

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3 hours ago, Querelle said:

If it were that easy, you could use Google Translate to translate foreign books and songs. We all know that this does not work very well, because translation is a complex and creative process, especially when it comes to lyrical texts that are not only subject to a certain rhythm, but also make substantive demands.

To use a quote: "Translation is an art because the translator tries to find out what is meant in one language, and then basically paints a picture of what is meant in the other language." It is simply ignorant not to appreciate the art of translating lyrical texts and pretend that everyone is capable of doing so, because that's absolutely not the case.

translation probably isn't the right word, since mirwais supposedly wrote it in english. but let's use casey's own words then: he claims he "cleaned it up, did some editing, Americanized the language." that means the dude's a copyeditor then and i think $25k and 15% sounds fair. this didn't need to be a social media spectacle. unlike mirwais, m's team isn't ignoring him. he's clearly trying to embarrass and pressure her and no matter what you think of the situation, it's just a bad look. 

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8 hours ago, Querelle said:

Madonna claimed songwriter credits for far less, as we all know.

Absolutely incorrect.  Madonna claims credit where it's due and is careful to give credit where it's due.  See my Tony Shimkin example earlier.

Casey did not sign away his publishing rights.  He was offered a $25K advance, which Madonna's team felt was an appropriate projection of the income that his 15% publishing royalties would earn in time.  If it earns more, he'll receive more money.  If it doesn't, he'll end up in front.  He agreed that his contribution amounts to 15% of the final product (which suggests that the verse he has uploaded is his only contribution in terms of lyrics and melody - he said he changed the melody for the last two lines).  What he has now decided is that he should receive a larger advance, based on the use of "God Control" in the MX Tour.  He will still receive royalties every time GC is performed live on this tour (so he's getting what he is entitled to).  Madonna's team has offered him a fair deal (i.e. publishing and songwriting credit - 15% - plus an advance on projected income from the track, which they don't actually have to do, since most songwriting contributors are paid royalties in retrospect, rather than in advance).  He wants more money in advance.  Of course, none of this will be reported by the press, because it doesn't serve what seems to be everyone's purpose of painting Madonna in a bad light.

Casey knows how all of this works.  He also knows full well that mentioning Madonna's name will garner attention.

 

 

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7 hours ago, dcbyebyebaby said:

She worked with William Orbit after Frozen was accused of plagiarism. 

William didn't co-write "Frozen", though - it was Pat Leonard.  In any case, eventually, the plagiarism claim was overturned and found to have no basis.  This is a completely different story, though.

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14 minutes ago, LVX said:

I wonder if there are other songs on Madame X that she “wrote” that were actually written by someone else? 🙄

BornThisWayX

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13 minutes ago, LVX said:

I’m not a moaner, just curious. Something wrong with that? 

I think it's the way you worded it.  Madonna didn't actually know that the work Mirwais presented her wasn't entirely his own.  Her lawyers have said this.  Using inverted commas implies that Madonna has somehow claimed unfair credit for someone else's work.  She didn't.  Mirwais, on the other hand, did.  Madonna's contribution to "God Control" isn't under question, and nor should any of her other credits on the album.  Had you said, "I wonder if there are any other songs on Madame X that Mirwais 'wrote' that were actually written by someone else?", I don't think anyone would have had an issue with what you were saying (since Casey has actually highlighted that Mirwais's integrity should be called into question, even though he's laying the blame squarely on Madonna).

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Just now, Carta said:

I think it's the way you worded it.  Madonna didn't actually know that the work Mirwais presented her wasn't entirely his own.  Her lawyers have said this.  Using inverted commas implies that Madonna has somehow claimed unfair credit for someone else's work.  She didn't.  Mirwais, on the other hand, did.  Madonna's contribution to "God Control" isn't under question, and nor should any of her other credits on the album.  Had you said, "I wonder if there are any other songs on Madame X that Mirwais 'wrote' that were actually written by someone else?", I don't think anyone would have had an issue with what you were saying (since Casey has actually highlighted that Mirwais's integrity should be called into question, even though he's laying the blame squarely on Madonna).

Oh. Well, I apologize if it came out wrong. 🙂

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Mirwais is at fault.  He should have given Casey credit.  Unfortunately as always,  Madonna will cop the full blame in the press.  Casey is behaving like a brat though in how he is wording things and is obviously using Madonna's name to gain attention.  His real problem is with Mirwais but that will attract no attention in the media.  This unfortunately will bring Madonna bad press and it is not her fault.  I suspect she would be furious with Mirwais for not sorting it out and letting it go on so long.  

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I hope this story will end soon without a lot of noise and bad press for Madonna, Mirwais has definitely been too naive and somehow unfair but the late Spooner's behaviour is worse, it makes him go wrong and even more unfair.

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54 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Mirwais is at fault.  He should have given Casey credit.  Unfortunately as always,  Madonna will cop the full blame in the press.  Casey is behaving like a brat though in how he is wording things and is obviously using Madonna's name to gain attention.  His real problem is with Mirwais but that will attract no attention in the media.  This unfortunately will bring Madonna bad press and it is not her fault.  I suspect she would be furious with Mirwais for not sorting it out and letting it go on so long.  

I agree 100%, Jan!

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Not that I expect a reply, but I tweeted to him asking why he's blasting Madonna when the true fault lies with her collaborator, mentioning that I know her name brings a lot of attention, and that the song, from start to finish, is excellent.Hope others have done the same, in various outlets.

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24 minutes ago, HolidayGuy said:

Not that I expect a reply, but I tweeted to him asking why he's blasting Madonna when the true fault lies with her collaborator, mentioning that I know her name brings a lot of attention, and that the song, from start to finish, is excellent.Hope others have done the same, in various outlets.

Thank you. 🙏🏻

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54 minutes ago, HolidayGuy said:

Not that I expect a reply, but I tweeted to him asking why he's blasting Madonna when the true fault lies with her collaborator, mentioning that I know her name brings a lot of attention, and that the song, from start to finish, is excellent.Hope others have done the same, in various outlets.

It’s obvious that he is aware of all that but he doesn’t care because he loves the attention. I hope Madonna drags him to hell and back! 
 

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1 hour ago, Plaything said:

It’s obvious that he is aware of all that but he doesn’t care because he loves the attention. I hope Madonna drags him to hell and back! 
 

ehh she won't 

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