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Madonna for New York Times Mag (Madonna NOT happy)


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Guest neeto_mosqueeto
10 hours ago, Katypatra said:

The way some of you are defending the writer failing to see where she went wrong only proves that there is yet much work to be done. I guess you can’t fix society. 

Absolutely... it’s like these stans want the Cliff Notes version of the articles.

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This thread has been exhausting...

Clearly this writer had access for DAYS given the amount of behind the scenes details she discusses (BBMA *rehearsals* and backstage at the GLAAD ceremony), not to mention access to Madonna’s home and inner circle of friends, associates, and staff.

The more I thought about it, the more I remembered an unexpected undercurrent in the story. The writer’s unvoiced (at the time) comment about Madonna’s use of the word “rape” definitely jumped out at me during my first read. (I’ve only read it once in full.) But, upon reflection, all the mentions of “fearing” Madonna, the “work on her face” (which implies perhaps more than what Madonna has availed herself of), the “control” (of the lighting, the media, etc.), calling her a cactus, all the aging focus (even after Madonna told her she emphasizes it too much), pointing out Madonna’s privilege as a mother vs her own ... there’s more. Little mentions come back here and there, and I think, “Hmm...” 

I feel the author may very well be devastated, and I feel a little bad for her. I think if I were assigned this task, I might very well fall short of Madonna’s expectations, too. It’s hard for a fan, I think. If the journalist weren’t a fan, this reaction might not sting. “I just hope she’s in a safe place when she hears about it.”

There were some real indulgences taken by the author, writing about her own upbringing and talking about her mother’s involvement in that community of artists and such. It’s a little outside the scope?

I wonder if the author’s question near the beginning — about whether she should take her coat off — is telling, too... Perhaps she herself thought this wasn’t going to go well. Had she been sent with the assignment to excavate the “Madonna at 60” angle and already felt the trepidation of having to push that beyond what Madonna really wanted to focus on. The interviewer “felt uncomfortable” with discussing any topic other than motherhood ... ? Madonna “lost her” when she started talking religious viewpoints and discussing paradoxes. Perhaps Madonna expected more of that discussion and less about the things Madonna considered trivial (like how shiny her tea kettle was).

...

Re: Harvey Weinstein ... his response conveniently did NOT quote the part where M said she wasn’t gloating about anyone’s demise... she just saw some comfort in seeing someone being held accountable when they’d abused their power — and I think that is to her credit. It’s curious that he just quotes a lot of her song titles and doesn’t really swipe back. The end is a little bit of a jab, but not vicious. 

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3 minutes ago, Ugly Hecty said:

Queen Mykki Blanco, Dark Ballet star speaks the TRUTH!

 

:clap:

YES! Thank you Mykki!

Ageism is particularly stupid because no matter who you are, you will get old...........or you won't. So, are these people planning on sparing themselves the agony of aging at a certain point?? I just don't understand the logic. I guess it's all rooted in the fear of dying. 🤷‍♂️

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Guest neeto_mosqueeto
2 hours ago, tuckeye said:

madonna thought female journalist was a dumb ass bitch, called her out, also blames the men who own the publication and for her catering to men ass.

makes sense to me.

You’ve astutely lowered the reading level of the argument to 8th grade reading level— so I’m impressed. But I challenge you to lower it to 4th grade for the fans that don’t seem to get what the patriarchy is, what a feminist is, and are confusing both of these with gender, amongst a lot of other crap. ♥️

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I read it but couldn’t see where the interviewer did her dirty?

it was a very indulgent interview, as if the interviewer wanted to remember the moment they spent with Madonna. 

However There was a part where the interviewer is confronted by Madonna about focusing on age too much. And the interviewer agreed. And they both agreed everyone fixates in age. So, I don’t get the up in arms.

i don’t know. I am constantly bombarded with “Omg you look so good for your age;” or “you’re going to be 40?!?!?!” my trainer says “u don’t move like Your age”. I could go on,... and it literally happens almost everyday online when all the 20 year olds hit me up on grindr lol, and it does get annoying...then u find urself not able to avoid conversation about it bc it’s brought up so much....but you have to see it as a compliment because it means your opening eyes to possibilities and preconceived notions people have and that’s a good thing. 

There must be more to madonnas reaction  bc I can’t see y from the interview. I really thought it was great. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Madonna at 60  makes me hopeful and is still interesting is what I got from it. 

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28 minutes ago, neeto_mosqueeto said:

You’ve astutely lowered the reading level of the argument to 8th grade reading level— so I’m impressed. But I challenge you to lower it to 4th grade for the fans that don’t seem to get what the patriarchy is, what a feminist is, and are confusing both of these with gender, amongst a lot of other crap. ♥️

oh  a newbie! LMAO

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23 minutes ago, peter said:

This thread has been exhausting...

Clearly this writer had access for DAYS given the amount of behind the scenes details she discusses (BBMA *rehearsals* and backstage at the GLAAD ceremony), not to mention access to Madonna’s home and inner circle of friends, associates, and staff.

The more I thought about it, the more I remembered an unexpected undercurrent in the story. The writer’s unvoiced (at the time) comment about Madonna’s use of the word “rape” definitely jumped out at me during my first read. (I’ve only read it once in full.) But, upon reflection, all the mentions of “fearing” Madonna, the “work on her face” (which implies perhaps more than what Madonna has availed herself of), the “control” (of the lighting, the media, etc.), calling her a cactus, all the aging focus (even after Madonna told her she emphasizes it too much), pointing out Madonna’s privilege as a mother vs her own ... there’s more. Little mentions come back here and there, and I think, “Hmm...” 

I feel the author may very well be devastated, and I feel a little bad for her. I think if I were assigned this task, I might very well fall short of Madonna’s expectations, too. It’s hard for a fan, I think. If the journalist weren’t a fan, this reaction might not sting. “I just hope she’s in a safe place when she hears about it.”

There were some real indulgences taken by the author, writing about her own upbringing and talking about her mother’s involvement in that community of artists and such. It’s a little outside the scope?

I wonder if the author’s question near the beginning — about whether she should take her coat off — is telling, too... Perhaps she herself thought this wasn’t going to go well. Had she been sent with the assignment to excavate the “Madonna at 60” angle and already felt the trepidation of having to push that beyond what Madonna really wanted to focus on. The interviewer “felt uncomfortable” with discussing any topic other than motherhood ... ? Madonna “lost her” when she started talking religious viewpoints and discussing paradoxes. Perhaps Madonna expected more of that discussion and less about the things Madonna considered trivial (like how shiny her tea kettle was).

...

Re: Harvey Weinstein ... his response conveniently did NOT quote the part where M said she wasn’t gloating about anyone’s demise... she just saw some comfort in seeing someone being held accountable when they’d abused their power — and I think that is to her credit. It’s curious that he just quotes a lot of her song titles and doesn’t really swipe back. The end is a little bit of a jab, but not vicious. 

Perfectly stated peter!

I definitely noticed the undercurrent when reading it the first time as well but was dismissive of it since it was clear the writer is an admirer. Thinking about it now though, that's rather sad in itself. I'm so used to seeing the most horrendous things written about her that those subtle digs (even if not necessarily intentional by the writer....giving her benefit of the doubt here) barely made me bat an eye....especially since it was candy coated with her going on about being a fan since she was young.  

Like you, I can't help but feel a bit sorry for her as well though. I truly don't think she intended to be malicious in any way. It's telling that this journalist felt it was totally ok to infer Madonna has had work on her face....or paint her as someone to be "feared" along with other things you mention. I'm willing to bet this journalist thought she nailed the article too (and perhaps she still does), I thought it was wonderful after my first read as well.....the choice of"Madonna at 60" as a heading obviously sailing right over my head. That actually kind of drives the point of Madonna's IG response home. The patriarchy runs so deep that it's "normal". 

I do wonder if the journalist has now taken a look at the article again with a different set of eyes after being called out? Or does she stand by her work? 

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5 hours ago, XXL said:

 

Well the New York Times is the mouth piece of the US government every time they feel like launching one of those bizarre wars "to save the world" and "export democracy" only to make it messier instead. Regardless of who's sitting in Congress or the WH. It's the "elite" publication

So in a sense that's patriarchy there and then

I mostly agree with you!

I just feel that some of the Times staff can be big hypocrites.

What I found so funny was that Madonna publicly called them out. .

 

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12 hours ago, ursula said:

I don't get it! I thought that article was nice and sympathetic! And isn't a reporter at liberty to write whatever she/he wants to write? Sometimes I feel like mambo has gotten thin-skinned with time! Of course her age is going to be mentionned! She's a 60 yo pop singer, for crying out loud!

She really should embrace this part of things 

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I'm not even going to touch this with a ten foot pole. She is entitled to her opinion and she has been so fucked over by the media for decades like no other artist ever.

That said, the Harvey Weinstein rebuttal was REAL? I am SCREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

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1 hour ago, Shaun said:

What do you guys think a Cyndi Lauper forum is like?

By the way, when I said it was exhausting, I didn’t mean because it was a long read ... I read everything before responding (again) ... I meant I had so many emotions, agreeing with some, being annoyed by others, but waiting til I got through it all to write. Only to find I was too tired to really respond directly to this person or that person. I guess I’m just like Madonna in the article “tired.”

How has she been able to fight this long? God grant her stength to continue.

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3 minutes ago, peter said:

 

How has she been able to fight this long? God grant her stength to continue.

Good question, peter. I've never seen someone so beat up by the press in the most vile, disgusting ways. No one. And from day one. She really has never had a break. When she did get a break, they'd still fuck her over somehow. It was never the ass-kissing some get 24/7/365. They beat the hell out of her in such personal ways. Yet, through it all, she remained very popular and the best selling/most successful female artist ever- by far. When album sales started to dry up (and globally, she was still ranked pretty high), she became an even larger touring force all the while NOT playing GH tours (and I wish she had at least once- I know I know). 

Yet, she continues to fight. Not always in ways I agree with but I don't walk in her shoes.

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Someone mentioned this will be discussed on The View. Most likely. And they will be nasty towards her yet if this were ANY other female, they'd knock themselves out defending, over defending.

If they, by chance, aren't openly nasty towards her (unlikely), their words will drip with sarcasm, eye rolls and all that. They'll make it known they don't like her even if they don't openly act nasty towards her.

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2 hours ago, peter said:

This thread has been exhausting...

Clearly this writer had access for DAYS given the amount of behind the scenes details she discusses (BBMA *rehearsals* and backstage at the GLAAD ceremony), not to mention access to Madonna’s home and inner circle of friends, associates, and staff.

The more I thought about it, the more I remembered an unexpected undercurrent in the story. The writer’s unvoiced (at the time) comment about Madonna’s use of the word “rape” definitely jumped out at me during my first read. (I’ve only read it once in full.) But, upon reflection, all the mentions of “fearing” Madonna, the “work on her face” (which implies perhaps more than what Madonna has availed herself of), the “control” (of the lighting, the media, etc.), calling her a cactus, all the aging focus (even after Madonna told her she emphasizes it too much), pointing out Madonna’s privilege as a mother vs her own ... there’s more. Little mentions come back here and there, and I think, “Hmm...” 

I feel the author may very well be devastated, and I feel a little bad for her. I think if I were assigned this task, I might very well fall short of Madonna’s expectations, too. It’s hard for a fan, I think. If the journalist weren’t a fan, this reaction might not sting. “I just hope she’s in a safe place when she hears about it.”

There were some real indulgences taken by the author, writing about her own upbringing and talking about her mother’s involvement in that community of artists and such. It’s a little outside the scope?

I wonder if the author’s question near the beginning — about whether she should take her coat off — is telling, too... Perhaps she herself thought this wasn’t going to go well. Had she been sent with the assignment to excavate the “Madonna at 60” angle and already felt the trepidation of having to push that beyond what Madonna really wanted to focus on. The interviewer “felt uncomfortable” with discussing any topic other than motherhood ... ? Madonna “lost her” when she started talking religious viewpoints and discussing paradoxes. Perhaps Madonna expected more of that discussion and less about the things Madonna considered trivial (like how shiny her tea kettle was).

...

Re: Harvey Weinstein ... his response conveniently did NOT quote the part where M said she wasn’t gloating about anyone’s demise... she just saw some comfort in seeing someone being held accountable when they’d abused their power — and I think that is to her credit. It’s curious that he just quotes a lot of her song titles and doesn’t really swipe back. The end is a little bit of a jab, but not vicious. 

Exactly!! The thing that pissed me off is the portrayal of Madonna as some scary, overly controlling stone hearted bitch, like everyone around Madonna was afraid of her, when in reality Madonna is actually quiet goofy, with a silly sense of humor and a very spiritual outlook on life. Before some of you start wanting to correct me tho, yes, she is a hardworking woman, so of course she demends responcibility from people she works with. But the way this writer conveyed it, was very superficial and flat! And again, pointing out how her double is so much younger, then indicating again that Madonna is 60, then mentioning her double’s ethnicity, as if those things matter!! They fucking don’t!! And even after being confronted by Madonna for focusing on age too much, she STARTS THE DAMN ARTICLE WITH AGEIST REMARKS!! 

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42 minutes ago, Katypatra said:

Exactly!! The thing that pissed me off is the portrayal of Madonna as some scary, overly controlling stone hearted bitch, like everyone around Madonna was afraid of her, when in reality Madonna is actually quiet goofy, with a silly sense of humor and a very spiritual outlook on life. Before some of you start wanting to correct me tho, yes, she is a hardworking woman, so of course she demends responcibility from people she works with. But the way this writer conveyed it, was very superficial and flat! And again, pointing out how her double is so much younger, then indicating again that Madonna is 60, then mentioning her double’s ethnicity, as if those things matter!! They fucking don’t!! And even after being confronted by Madonna for focusing on age too much, she STARTS THE DAMN ARTICLE WITH AGEIST REMARKS!! 

I think everyone who is hard working is seen as maniacal, controlling, intimidating. Most people don't understand what it takes to get something done.  Yet they feel entitled to what others work hard for or putting them down and trying to discredit them instead of learning and appreciating from them. to really forge ahead in a world full of malevolence you have to be a wolf sometimes. anyone who hasn't achieved something truly worth having won't really get it.

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17 minutes ago, eroticerotic said:

I think everyone who is hard working is seen as maniacal, controlling, intimidating. Most people don't understand what it takes to get something done.  Yet they feel entitled to what others work hard for or putting them down and trying to discredit them instead of learning and appreciating from them. to really forge ahead in a world full of malevolence you have to be a wolf sometimes. anyone who hasn't achieved something truly worth having won't really get it.

Ok but besides that, isn’t Madonna so much more? Or does the world just NEED to focus on her being 60 and controlling??

Just look at the way she is raising her children! That actually speaks volumes! Her tenderness AND vulnerability are unquestionable. Her love for art, freedom, humanity, peace, and dare I say GOD Himself! Where is all that?

How long are we going to push the Madonna is a bitch stereotype? If I ever had that privilege to meet her and interview her, I’d dig deeper into the woman that she truly is. I’d have her open her heart to me with trust because my agenda wouldn’t come from a place of superficial, ageist, predictable journalism! How can anyone call that dreadful, pretentious article nice is beyond me!

p.s. I liked what you said, I’m just farther expending my point of view on this article 

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22 minutes ago, eroticerotic said:

I think everyone who is hard working is seen as maniacal, controlling, intimidating. Most people don't understand what it takes to get something done.  Yet they feel entitled to what others work hard for or putting them down and trying to discredit them instead of learning and appreciating from them. to really forge ahead in a world full of malevolence you have to be a wolf sometimes. anyone who hasn't achieved something truly worth having won't really get it.

This is very true as well.

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4 hours ago, Shaun said:

What do you guys think a Cyndi Lauper forum is like?

The singer who had a couple of hits in the 80s?

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3 hours ago, jamesshot said:

Someone mentioned this will be discussed on The View. Most likely. And they will be nasty towards her yet if this were ANY other female, they'd knock themselves out defending, over defending.

If they, by chance, aren't openly nasty towards her (unlikely), their words will drip with sarcasm, eye rolls and all that. They'll make it known they don't like her even if they don't openly act nasty towards her.

But aren't all the women on The View liberal women who stick together to "fight the patriarchy"?

 

I'm sure they'll have Madonna's back and support her, like strong women do!

 

Sarcasm....

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@Samo   I wish you would put as much effort into talking of Madonna's new songs etc as you do to getting stuck into" Liberal women"  and saying most women are like that and don't stick together.   Your misogyny is breathtakingly transparent.  Who cares about those idiots on the View, the Talk etc who are just paid to sprout nonsense.  Hardly hard hitting shows. 

Come back to us when you want to talk about Piers Morgan, Roger Friedman, Morrissey, Rufas Wainwright, Elton John etc.  O'h and make sure you mention how men are so nasty about Madonna etc.   When of course,  only some men are just as only some women are.   Would never judge men on these idiots so please don't judge women on those idiots you keep referring to. 

For God's sake, give it a rest. 

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I understand her frustration,her interviews in recent years have been a constant repeat of the same dumb questions over and over again (those God awful radio "interviews" from a few days ago are a perfect example)

I think this time with the NYT she really wanted total focus on the record and her work, instead of other aspects that nobody really gives a damn about hence why she gave the journalist total access to her creative process. And I wouldn't be surprised if that was the agreement, although the result is quite "disappointing".  Her reaction might seem a bit too much if you consider just this one interview, but if you think about the fact that she's been working her ass off for creating an interesting musical project but all these journalists seem to focus on is her age, her being a mother and still working, as if there was no interest at all in her art, must be incredibly irritating.

And it's been going on for years, remember at the MDNA tour premiere where she snapped at that dumb girl asking AGAIN about her exercise routine on tour or when she started every RH promo interview saying that if the journalist asked dumb questions they would have to drink tequila shots.... no wonder she doesn't like to do interviews and promo anymore, I wouldn't either!!

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14 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

@Samo   I wish you would put as much effort into talking of Madonna's new songs etc as you do to getting stuck into" Liberal women"  and saying most women are like that and don't stick together.   Your misogyny is breathtakingly transparent.  Who cares about those idiots on the View, the Talk etc who are just paid to sprout nonsense.  Hardly hard hitting shows. 

Come back to us when you want to talk about Piers Morgan, Roger Friedman, Morrissey, Rufas Wainwright, Elton John etc.  O'h and make sure you mention how men are so nasty about Madonna etc.   When of course,  only some men are just as only some women are.   Would never judge men on these idiots so please don't judge women on those idiots you keep referring to. 

For God's sake, give it a rest. 

I do but you can't deny that women never stick together?  Everyone knows this and Madonna has been a victim of this her whole career.  Most people think third wave feminism is a joke because of this very reason

 

I see women being hateful, for no reason, to other women EVERYDAY practically, especially at my workplace, they rip each other apart and tear each other down but let's blame the "patriarchy" for how a grown person acts towards another person....

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10 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

@Samo   I wish you would put as much effort into talking of Madonna's new songs etc as you do to getting stuck into" Liberal women"  and saying most women are like that and don't stick together.   Your misogyny is breathtakingly transparent.  Who cares about those idiots on the View, the Talk etc who are just paid to sprout nonsense.  Hardly hard hitting shows. 

Come back to us when you want to talk about Piers Morgan, Roger Friedman, Morrissey, Rufas Wainwright, Elton John etc.  O'h and make sure you mention how men are so nasty about Madonna etc.   When of course,  only some men are just as only some women are.   Would never judge men on these idiots so please don't judge women on those idiots you keep referring to. 

For God's sake, give it a rest. 

I had no idea Samo had that history. I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt but I am glad I didn't respond. He's from the US so I am sure he knows how The View works. It is not about liberal women when it comes to specific personalities. Most of the women on there are great on most topics but Madonna brings out a whole new level of discussion. It is sad but Madonna is polarizing and a lot of liberal women are also polarized by her. There are no "both sides are bad" on this topic as conservatives have spent more money damning Madonna than they have on most liberal policies. Murdoch has been a cancer on this world and his publications have made it a sport on taking on Madonna. Spoiler- she's winning. 

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4 minutes ago, cocolattee said:

I understand her frustration,her interviews in recent years have been a constant repeat of the same dumb questions over and over again (those God awful radio "interviews" from a few days ago are a perfect example)

I think this time with the NYT she really wanted total focus on the record and her work, instead of other aspects that nobody really gives a damn about hence why she gave the journalist total access to her creative process. And I wouldn't be surprised if that was the agreement, although the result is quite "disappointing".  Her reaction might seem a bit too much if you consider just this one interview, but if you think about the fact that she's been working her ass off for creating an interesting musical project but all these journalists seem to focus on is her age, her being a mother and still working, as if there was no interest at all in her art, must be incredibly irritating.

And it's been going on for years, remember at the MDNA tour premiere where she snapped at that dumb girl asking AGAIN about her exercise routine on tour or when she started every RH promo interview saying that if the journalist asked dumb questions they would have to drink tequila shots.... no wonder she doesn't like to do interviews and promo anymore, I wouldn't either!!

I do think Madonna needs to be more understanding of repetitive questions. She is the most famous woman in the world. She gets asked a lot of the same questions and, no doubt, it frustrates her but she could show more grace to them. Her obvious annoyance to these questions is a turn off for many and she needs to be more aware. She is intimidating and some just ask stupid questions they think are relevant. 

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