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Michael Jackson: Paedophile (continued)

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4 hours ago, acko said:

It's just awful how some of u haven't said anything for days and then come back with some bullshit of a Grammy Award date
not being correct. You people disgust me. Defending a monster, a child rapist and an evil megalomaniac individual who destroyed
the lives of entire families. I hope that dead freak u love so much burns and rots in hell.

Facts are, MJ groomed the world. Those who defend him have been groomed by the persona he created. They simply cannot imagine this ‘gentle, sweet soul’ raping young kids behind closed doors because they feel like they know him. The sheer brazenness of a global star doing this and denying it all so emphatically. It’s hard for them to wrap their heads around anything else other than what MJ sang about. That ‘us vs them’ Lance Armstrong attitude is addictive. It’s the same as how Ted Bundy charmed people/feigned weakness, and how other stone cold guilty killers claimed their innocence.

I’m confident Jackson was a paedophile but at times you want to doubt it/don’t want to believe it. You want to like him, but that’s the trick. The parents and kids also fell into that trap which allowed the abuse to happen in the first place. ‘MJ is a huge icon, he’s fun and safe to be around’. That’s where their thinking was. MJ probably did believe raping young kids was just showing love. As I said before, the timelines of the kids and parents all match up with reality. They were there. What happened behind those doors was explained in the doco. It was just them and MJ in there. I believe them.

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15 hours ago, JR! said:

"Celebrity supersedes criminality... How can you see clearly when you are looking into the sun? How can an icon be a con?"

Powerful words when applied to his defenders...

 

I agree with this quote... very strongly applied in this instance... blinded by the "power" of the sun... 

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1 hour ago, Aime said:

As for Wade, the fact that he was looking for a MJ-related job a couple of years ago means nothing, in my opinion. Who knows, maybe it's his own kind of compensation for his childhood trauma. Maybe at this point it was not about the money for him at all.

He's an artist that based his career in Jackson's trademark moves (hence the Jacksonesque moves in Nsync and Britney). It is normal that he opted for that job! 

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1 hour ago, lasky said:

I agree with this quote... very strongly applied in this instance... blinded by the "power" of the sun... 

Oprah mentioned this quote on her special after HBO aired the documentary. I can’t remember if it was her quote or someone else’s but is brilliant! 

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54 minutes ago, karbatal said:

He's an artist that based his career in Jackson's trademark moves (hence the Jacksonesque moves in Nsync and Britney). It is normal that he opted for that job! 

Jackson was their idol, and it still feels like they’re going against him/betraying him because of the power of that friendship, which was originally present due to being a star struck child, and then being groomed over a period of time. Now they’re older they see the true extent of what was happening. It’s a weird, confusing relationship but I get what they mean. 

Just as Jackson lied about only having two plastic surgeries he also lied about not being a predator.

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Have to say I find it, well, hard hearing his music right now. I've never been a fan but I do have most of his albums as I like pop music in general... I can overlook "problematic" (hate that word) behaviour most of the time but this is where I draw the line.

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My perspective has changed greatly since watching the doc and having time to let it sink in. I do believe they're authentic in what they say. I was expecting 4 hours of graphic sexual descriptions and a little bad acting but what I got was far more complicated, intense and heartbreaking. 

There are still legitimate questions though that many people have. It's not 100% "he's guilty" across the board as far as public opinion goes. In fact, the "did he or didn't he" debate seems just as polarizing as it always was. I see nothing wrong with discussing both sides of the story and anyone that tries to shouldn't be shot down and called "paedo apologists" for it. This is a discussion forum after all and I'm confident there's nobody here that truly condones abuse against children. It's disheartening to see members of the forum criticized for merely pondering questions that thousands or even millions of other people may have. 

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31 minutes ago, Kurt420 said:

It's disheartening to see members of the forum criticized for merely pondering questions that thousands or even millions of other people may have. 

That’s NOT what they do though. They just troll and be provocative for the sake of ‚MJinnocent‘. Most haven’t even seen the documentary, they just copy and paste offensively stupid arguments. And it’s NAUSEATING. I have yet to meet someone or read from someone who has ACTUALLY SEEN the WHOLE thing and still say there are reasonable doubts and the guys are suspicious. Haven’t heard about anyone. And I read a lot of stuff, listened to podcasts, saw what people posted here... The voices from those who watched the whole 4 hours are pretty much in unison. 

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4 hours ago, the-queen said:

Facts are, MJ groomed the world. Those who defend him have been groomed by the persona he created. They simply cannot imagine this ‘gentle, sweet soul’ raping young kids behind closed doors because they feel like they know him. The sheer brazenness of a global star doing this and denying it all so emphatically. It’s hard for them to wrap their heads around anything else other than what MJ sang about. That ‘us vs them’ Lance Armstrong attitude is addictive. It’s the same as how Ted Bundy charmed people/feigned weakness, and how other stone cold guilty killers claimed their innocence.

I’m confident Jackson was a paedophile but at times you want to doubt it/don’t want to believe it. You want to like him, but that’s the trick. The parents and kids also fell into that trap which allowed the abuse to happen in the first place. ‘MJ is a huge icon, he’s fun and safe to be around’. That’s where their thinking was. MJ probably did believe raping young kids was just showing love. As I said before, the timelines of the kids and parents all match up with reality. They were there. What happened behind those doors was explained in the doco. It was just them and MJ in there. I believe them.

I think some people just don't have any basic understanding about how these things work. They hear pedophile or child rape and they can't imagine Michael Jackson being violent and aggressive, driving around in a creepy van snatching boys off the street and raping them and dumping their bodies in the woods. Michael Jackson even plays into this when he likens pedophilia to Jack The Ripper. Or when his supporters say "well he didn't molest this one or that one" as if he would have to have been some kind of molestation machine, when the reality is it's an entirely long drawn out process of manipulation of a particular child, the way in which MJ operated and many others do. Once you can understand that, which the documentary apparently covers, I don't see how his entire operation doesn't become completely obvious.

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i'm surprised how shocked people are about these stories of MJ abuse. They've been everywhere since 1993. Now just recycled for 2019. MJ was the one who got away, though finally paying the ultimate price.. Only in fame & money worshipping America, bitches!

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I was all pro MJ when I heard about the doc, but now that I've watched it... he did it. Chronology of events, letters, calls, their relationship, you don't need any other evidence.

4 hours ago, lasky said:

I agree with this quote... very strongly applied in this instance... blinded by the "power" of the sun... 

Brilliant quote yes

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this thing is really huge

I mean just think about it, it changes everything about him

yes we knew about it before but I mean he was the BIGGEST star in the world, this is sooo disturbing

and I think his children will not cope well. Imagine being the daughter or son of a paedophile.

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https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/jordy-chandler-now-michael-jackson-14091352

Where is Jordy Chandler now? Michael Jackson original accuser’s whereabouts

Jordy or Jordan Chandler was one of the the original boys to accuse Michael Jackson of sexual abuse in the 1990s

09:21, 7 MAR 2019

UPDATED 09:23, 7 MAR 2019

A new documentary on alleged child sex abuse by Michael Jackson has sparked new accusations and brought to light fresh alleged details about the King of Pop’s conduct.

Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Meexplores the claims of Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who became friends with Jackson when they were aged seven and ten.

The director of the four hour film, Dan Reed, has said he tried to get in contact with Jordy while making his explosive documentary.

Back in 1993 Jordan Chandler accused Michael of child abuse after his father became suspicious about what was going on between his son and the star.

The Jackson estate has slammed all claims made in the film.

Here’s what is known about Jordy now.

What happened with Jordy Chandler and Michael Jackson?

5C918261-930C-4D1A-BCAD-654ED8749316.jpeg

Lily Chandler, Michael Jackson and Jordy Chandler (Image: Rex)

The pair became friendly in 1992, when Jordy was 12 years old. Reports at the time claimed Jackson became close to the Chandler family and his step sister and brother would also visit Neverland – the star’s sprawling home.

However, in 1993, Jordan’s dad Evan Chandler became suspicious after Jackson stayed in a room with Jordy and his step brother at the Monaco World Music Awards.

In the same year, the LA police department launched an inquiry and went to Neverland with a strip-search warrant after Jordy gave a detailed description of his penis.

No criminal evidence was found at Jackson’s home and reports are divided on whether the child’s descriptions of his genitalia were accurate.

The Chandler family then sued the star themselves in a $30million lawsuit that accused him of sexual battery.

In 1994 the case was settled out of court for $23million. Jordy refused to testify against the singer and the district attorneys said their investigation failed to produce evidence and they could not file criminal charges without Jordan's cooperation.

Evan Chandler committed suicide in November 2009 – just four months after Jackson was found dead at home.

Where is Jordy Chandler now?

5ACB6BE6-BAF7-41BD-8C23-CE07750AFE41.jpeg

Jordan Chandler enjoying his first full day on the slopes of Lake Tahoe with his brother, sister and girlfriend Sonnett Simmons in 2005 (Image: Splash)

The actual whereabouts of Jordy are not known. He disappeared after the settlement was reached and was rarely seen again. The picture above was taken in 2005 when he was on a skiing holiday in Lake Tahoe, California, with his brother and sister.

In 2013, the legal team of choreographer Wade Robson, who features in the new documentary, tried to locate Jordy but were unable to.

Reports at the time claim they turned to his sister Lily Chandler, who was allegedly unwilling to get involved from fear of threats against her family.

She also claimed she had no memory of sexual abuse at Neverland because she was just five when she visited.

There are reports that Jordy was given a new identity and life in New York following the settlement.

Leaving Neverland director Reed told inews despite attempts he’d been unsuccessful in tracking him down.

“Jordan’s not easily accessible,” he said. “We did a bit of sleuthing to try and find him but decided to not push that any further as he appears to want to stay hidden. For now.”

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2 hours ago, Kurt420 said:

My perspective has changed greatly since watching the doc and having time to let it sink in. I do believe they're authentic in what they say. I was expecting 4 hours of graphic sexual descriptions and a little bad acting but what I got was far more complicated, intense and heartbreaking. 

There are still legitimate questions though that many people have. It's not 100% "he's guilty" across the board as far as public opinion goes. In fact, the "did he or didn't he" debate seems just as polarizing as it always was. I see nothing wrong with discussing both sides of the story and anyone that tries to shouldn't be shot down and called "paedo apologists" for it. This is a discussion forum after all and I'm confident there's nobody here that truly condones abuse against children. It's disheartening to see members of the forum criticized for merely pondering questions that thousands or even millions of other people may have. 

to be honest, I am sure that ALL of those who still think "he didn't" haven't watched the documentary. 

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Even if the accusers are lying how the f**k did Jacson and his team allow several children to sleep in his bed.

He said, he wasn't in the bed with them but just shows how bad his judgement was.

It's like he was setting himself to be easily accused, and sued for a lot $$$.

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The victim blaming has been dreadful by some MJ fans all over social media.  Makes it so difficult for childhood sexual victims to ever speak out if they see the vicious criticising and nit picking of everything about them.  MJ fans online on mass keep bringing up the same tired points to discredit victims and is sad that they don't take into account how children so often defend their abuser through either fear, love or the abuser using emotional blackmail or making them feel they owe it to them to lie for them. 

I still find it unforgivable and unbelievable how MJ's behaviour and the fact people knew he had young boys in his bed was excused and ignored for so long. Another example is Martin Bashir copping all the criticism for showing MJ and not editing things to present that false image that Jackson cultivated.  When all along, instead of abusing Bashir, the evidence of Michael's words and behaviour was there to see.  

Note too how both Wade and Jimmy were coached and told by MJ's lawyers how to talk to the FBI and on the stand.  No wonder too that Jordy Chandler's sister does not want to speak out now for fear of threats . The abuse that family has copped while the world excused a grown man sexually abusing children - the world knew he slept in bed with young boys -  is a toxic example of celebrity worshipping gone mad. 

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I think there's a lot of people who won't say it, but feel that his music and celebrity are what is important and the other ugly stuff should just be swept under the carpet.

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6 hours ago, Kurt420 said:

My perspective has changed greatly since watching the doc and having time to let it sink in. I do believe they're authentic in what they say. I was expecting 4 hours of graphic sexual descriptions and a little bad acting but what I got was far more complicated, intense and heartbreaking. 

There are still legitimate questions though that many people have. It's not 100% "he's guilty" across the board as far as public opinion goes. In fact, the "did he or didn't he" debate seems just as polarizing as it always was. I see nothing wrong with discussing both sides of the story and anyone that tries to shouldn't be shot down and called "paedo apologists" for it. This is a discussion forum after all and I'm confident there's nobody here that truly condones abuse against children. It's disheartening to see members of the forum criticized for merely pondering questions that thousands or even millions of other people may have. he didnt want to change it because it helped with the grooming.

yes.

they need to express their disbelief (grieving of their idol etc) before confronting the truth. but also corrected when they believe false information.

before, i didnt believe any of the allegations. i'm sure there were some that were trying to shake down jackson while others were abused *of course he isn't going to abuse every boy he comes across* ...but watching doc and esp. oprah it made me realize that he did groom he did manipulate he did use and all of that IS abuse. on top of the actual sexual abuse that happened behind closed doors.

i used to believe the whole 'but his childhood' excuse...but Jackson's brothers/sisters didnt have that problem...and if it hurt him so bad why didn't he go to therapy for it? get help? it was obviously hurting his adult life.

 

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I especially feel sorry for Jordy Chandler. Jackson fans put him through hell, sent dead rats to his house, etc. They shamed him for years. Then, when MJ died, his fans started a rumor that Jordy had admitted he lied about the whole thing (if that was the truth, he would have to pay his settlement back). Then, when Chandler's father died, Jackson fans shamed the family for "karma." It's sick. It really is. 

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Anybody else think songs like this are creepy as hell in retrospect?

You're fearing me, 'cause you know I'm a beast
Watching you when you sleep, when you're in bed
I'm underneath

You should be watching me, you should feel threatened
Why you sleep, why you creep, you should be threatened

You think you're by yourself, but it's my touch you felt

The unknown monster is about to embark
From a far corner, out of the dark
A nightmare, that's the case 
Never Neverland, that's the place

:nervous:

It's like R. Kelly writing a song called "Age Aint Nothing But A Number"

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20 minutes ago, impr3ssive_instant said:

Anybody else think songs like this are creepy as hell in retrospect?

You're fearing me, 'cause you know I'm a beast
Watching you when you sleep, when you're in bed
I'm underneath

You should be watching me, you should feel threatened
Why you sleep, why you creep, you should be threatened

You think you're by yourself, but it's my touch you felt

The unknown monster is about to embark
From a far corner, out of the dark
A nightmare, that's the case 
Never Neverland, that's the place

:nervous:

It's like R. Kelly writing a song called "Age Aint Nothing But A Number"

That is creepy, especially when I look at MJ in that still shot and his eyes look just like JamesSafechuck 😳

7DAF0826-1854-4A6A-BB56-F3A30155D8F0.jpeg

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4 hours ago, impr3ssive_instant said:

Anybody else think songs like this are creepy as hell in retrospect?

You're fearing me, 'cause you know I'm a beast
Watching you when you sleep, when you're in bed
I'm underneath

You should be watching me, you should feel threatened
Why you sleep, why you creep, you should be threatened

You think you're by yourself, but it's my touch you felt

The unknown monster is about to embark
From a far corner, out of the dark
A nightmare, that's the case 
Never Neverland, that's the place

:nervous:

It's like R. Kelly writing a song called "Age Aint Nothing But A Number"

:shock: 

It makes sense now!

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So sick of " celebrities " attacking his victims because they were not sexually abused when they knew him. For goodness sake does that thug Aaron Carter think that MJ would attack him at 15 when he was already famous. O'h and Harriet Lester,  Mark's daughter says he never touched her when she visited Neverland. Well Harriet, of course not. Your father was famous through the movie Oliver and the most obvious factor - you would not interest Michael sexually because you were not a little boy. 

Yet, MJ fans trotting them out as reasons he is not an abuser. :doh:

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Wade’s grandma is so cute and so is her accent. I want to have a cup of tea with her and play UNO with her. :lol:

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Everytime i see some of these MJ fans blindly defending him, i imagine being the little brother/ nephew/ cousin/ son, whatever of one of these fans, being a victim of abuse and still not having the strength/ courage to tell someone about it...watching a loved one blaming/ attacking the victims so viciously would only encourage me to keep my mouth shut feeling terrified of the treatment i would receive...so sad...

This documentary shows the whole seduction/ grooming part of the abuse so clearly, i think everyone needs to watch it so people finally understand why sometimes it takes decades for some victims to speak up, why victims often lie, why they seem happy in photos and videos with the abuser, it's so very sick...

And kudos to Oprah for doing the show while knowing that she would be destroyed by the fans...

At the end of the day, i'd rather believe and support a victim that could potentially be lying, than defending someone who could be a monster of the worst kind...

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So glad I was never into this pile of shit's music. Honestly, never saw the fuzz on his stuff. 

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I mean even Macaulay Culkin acknowledge  the alarm bells that go off in the hallway leading up to the bedroom door in his testimony while  “defending” him. Like who has alarm bells to warn of people approaching their bedroom? Rich pedos do...

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Michael Jackson’s behaviour ‘deeply suspicious’ during 1988 tour

A reporter covering Michael Jackson 1988 tour has come forward with a shocking story regarding one of the star’s young accusers.

A journalist has revealed he was so concerned about Michael Jackson’s “deeply suspicious” relationship with James Safechuck he reached out to the boy, asking if he was being held against his will.

Jackson, who died in 2009, is facing renewed allegations he sexually abused children in the documentary Leaving Neverland, which premiered in Australia late last week.

The three-hour film details Safechuck and Australian-born Wade Robson’s claims Jackson groomed and sexually molested them for years.

In an article for the Irish Mail on Sunday, reporter Sam Smyth recalled how he became concerned about Jackson’s behaviour while covering one of the singer’s concerts in 1988.

Accompanying Jackson was Safechuck, or “Little Jimmy” as he was known by Jackson.

Michael Jackson and James Safechuck

Staying at the same hotel as Jackson and his entourage as he performed in Ireland, Smyth and another journalist noted it was “very odd” the 10-year-old boy was accompanying the singer.

Making things even more strange, staff reported Safechuck, who was staying next to Jackson, remained in his room the whole time the singer was out performing with a ‘do not disturb’ sign hanging on the doorknob and sheeting on the windows to block the view in.

Growing concerned, Smyth and the other journalist decided to send a letter to Safechuck’s room.

Using hotel stationary the pair wrote: “Dear Little Jimmy Safechuck, we are in the residents’ lounge … and if you are being held against your will or if you need rescuing contact us.”

Smyth said they gave the note to a hotel porter with instructions to take it to Safechuck’s room, however they never heard from the boy.

“I remember thinking at the time … it’s very odd for a man in his 30th year to have his very best friend as this boy called Little Jimmy Safechuck who was 10,” Smyth said on RTÉ Radio 1.

“The whole thing was odd and deeply suspicious. Certainly not anything that I would ever want for anyone belonging to me.”

Smyth found the allegations made in Leaving Neverland credible and said he believed Safechuck’s account despite not receiving a reply to his hotel note.

“I’m quite convinced that they are telling the truth,” he said. “I think most people would be … I think the film is very credible and very skilfully made

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