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Buttigieg's a moderate Republican. He's being financed by corporate interests and his policies have been changing accordingly. Wants to keep medicare firmly market-based, supports charter schools, supports continued military invention in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan, wants to increase the defense budget (which is already more than $700 billion).

No thanks, not interested. Sanders all the way.

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I don't find Sanders proposals to be extreme in any way. It's all common sense really. Unfortunately, he's seen as being way too out there for too many people, even a lot of Dems. I do like him and would vote for him in a second if he's the nom but if he actually won, anything he'd try to pass would just be a major uphill battle most likely resulting in a lot of disappointments. 

It does seem though that Sanders in 2020 or someone else similar in 2024 would be the logical yang (no pun intended) to Trump's ying of the past 4 or 8 years.

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9 hours ago, Kurt420 said:

I don't find Sanders proposals to be extreme in any way. It's all common sense really. Unfortunately, he's seen as being way too out there for too many people, even a lot of Dems. I do like him and would vote for him in a second if he's the nom but if he actually won, anything he'd try to pass would just be a major uphill battle most likely resulting in a lot of disappointments. 

It does seem though that Sanders in 2020 or someone else similar in 2024 would be the logical yang (no pun intended) to Trump's ying of the past 4 or 8 years.

From Canada, Sanders' proposals appear anything but extreme, as they correspond to many of the policies we apply to reduce social inequality. On the other hand, in a country as deeply individualistic and unequal as the United States, what he offers is a real revolution.

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Pete is so well spoken, well balanced, intelligent, clever etc. that he probably wont be nominated, which is pitty. US under Pete could do so much good in the world.

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Bernie all the way.  I love him, love his policies and passion.  A true alternative to the status quo of "Republicans lite " .  Far too many politicians  today talk of being " in the middle"  which is not much different to the corporate politicians and press that truly run things. 

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Somebody up there, or down there, must really like Trump. Because he's gonna win again...

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12 hours ago, runa said:

Sanders has one big problem, though: he is way toooooo old.

This. Not being ageist, but in all liklihood he wont go two terms, and so probably will have no time to actually achieve any of the things he's promising. Would be interesting to know who he's thinking of for a running mate...

12 hours ago, elijah said:

Pete is so well spoken, well balanced, intelligent, clever etc. that he probably wont be nominated, which is pitty. US under Pete could do so much good in the world.

This.

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1 hour ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Bernie all the way.  I love him, love his policies and passion.  A true alternative to the status quo of "Republicans lite " .  Far too many politicians  today talk of being " in the middle"  which is not much different to the corporate politicians and press that truly run things. 

All true, but that, unfortunately, is why he wont ever be able to win the election proper. He's seen as too much of a risk for most americans. We saw that in Australia - all Bill Shortens policies were sound and sensible, but too many people got scared.

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12 hours ago, elijah said:

Pete is so well spoken, well balanced, intelligent, clever etc. that he probably wont be nominated, which is pitty. US under Pete could do so much good in the world.

I totally agree. He would make Trump look so effing stupid and wouldn't even have to try. I really like his whole demeanor. I feel good after watching him speak. He's always cool and calm.

You raise a good point too, I think Pete would be amazing for foreign relations. Bernie, bless him, can come across as "crazy angry old man" to many at times. What scares me is that we're already seeing the "Bernie or bust" crowd coming for Pete in the way they did Hillary. I would hope some lessons were learned in 2016 in regard to that but I'm not so sure.

22 minutes ago, Paul said:

All true, but that, unfortunately, is why he wont ever be able to win the election proper. He's seen as too much of a risk for most americans. We saw that in Australia - all Bill Shortens policies were sound and sensible, but too many people got scared.

You're right on. I just can't see the majority of Americans going for him, he's seen as "out there" by a lot of people. BUT on the contrary, so was Trump and look what happened. We're living in very strange times so anything is possible. Would be poetic to see us go from extreme right like Trump to what many would consider socialism if Bernie were elected. 

Also, I have to say, I don't think it's fair calling Pete a "Republican". He's far away from that. People have gotten way too black and white with their assessment of things. Pete built his momentum from nothing over the course of the past year. Bernie has been around for 40+ years. I mean come on.

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Nothing Bernie is proposing will happen, even if he wins. He'd need 60+ Senators and the House to get it passed, and the ONLY time we've gotten those numbers was after a huge financial crash (2008) that came right at the end of 8 years of Republican rule, so unless that perfect storm comes together for him, we will all keep dreaming.

Not saying I won't vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination, I am just a realist about what's really going to change in this country. If Bernie won and we also got 51+ Democratic Senators, we would at least get a Supreme Court justice (and we NEED that now).

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15 hours ago, ThomasW said:

so with all those The Simpsons predictions, the one with the cheeto in the box hasn't happened yet ...

waiting.jpg

What was that?

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6 hours ago, Nightshade said:

Nothing Bernie is proposing will happen, even if he wins. He'd need 60+ Senators and the House to get it passed, and the ONLY time we've gotten those numbers was after a huge financial crash (2008) that came right at the end of 8 years of Republican rule, so unless that perfect storm comes together for him, we will all keep dreaming.

Not saying I won't vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination, I am just a realist about what's really going to change in this country. If Bernie won and we also got 51+ Democratic Senators, we would at least get a Supreme Court justice (and we NEED that now).

These are my thoughts exactly. People may consider it pessimistic or say that I'm giving up before we've begun but I think part of the responsibility of considering a candidate is who can actually win in the current political climate. In a perfect world, I'd be Bernie all the way. I feel like his policies would revolutionize this country. You raise the most important points though, even IF he were the nom and IF he won, it's going to be an uphill battle and I'm afraid nothing would really get done. I do think at some point it's going to come down to "extreme" right and "extreme" left and the more center candidates will be forced to choose a side basically......but I don't think 2020 is that time. I admire the tenacity and unflinching support of the "Bernie or bust" crowd but on the other hand, sorry to be blunt, they need to keep a foot in reality and at least be OPEN to the fact that he IS seen as somewhat extreme (even if he's really not) and at least consider other potential Dem candidates if things don't go like they want. To just see them dismiss every other Dem for one reason or another because they aren't absolutely "perfect" is disheartening and frustrating because that in itself will guarantee four more years of Trump. His 2016 win was a perfect storm of things but the "Bernie or bust" crowd certainly didn't help matters and I do feel was a contributing factor in where we're at now.

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I’m a Bernie supporter myself, but at this point I’d vote for a houseplant if it meant getting that disgusting vile despot out. 

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20 hours ago, runa said:

This is so interesting, and scary at the same time :

The Billion-Dollar Disinformation Campaign to Reelect the President

 

facebook and social medias in general are really a plague for democracy.

During the last election I saw so much garbage posted on Facebook every day for months and months. Family members, friends, coworkers, etc. (who are mostly Democrat) would share these ridiculous, poorly written articles which were fake news and wacko conspiracy theories about Clinton. These articles made some of them vote for Trump. And discouraged many of them from voting. They decided to not vote at all, which is basically a vote for Trump. They seriously believed ”Pizzagate“ too and still did even when it was debunked. These fake news articles shared on Facebook would really annoy the fuck out of me and I would often point out the obvious fakeness to them. They would be hosted on weird sounding, cheaply designed websites nobody ever heard before. I was really dumbfounded by people who I considered quite intelligent who easily fell for these many articles. :doh: 

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Social medias are the worst thing that has happened to our democracies and to our societies in general. All these fake news and group allowing to reunite disturbed people made the air particularly toxic during the last 5 years. that's why I left all social medias except Instagram 2 years ago and I'm so good at no longer seeing the completely false bullshit and dangerous stories that are peddled there.

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That article was fabulous and dead-on - it's not about silencing journalists anymore; it's about assaulting people with so much information that they question what's true, become exhausted finding it, and give up.

"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth."

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On 2/6/2020 at 5:22 PM, Jazzy Jan said:

Bernie all the way.  I love him, love his policies and passion.  A true alternative to the status quo of "Republicans lite " .  Far too many politicians  today talk of being " in the middle"  which is not much different to the corporate politicians and press that truly run things. 

Agreed! #BernieBeatsTrump 

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On 2/6/2020 at 3:51 PM, elijah said:

Pete is so well spoken, well balanced, intelligent, clever etc. that he probably wont be nominated, which is pitty. US under Pete could do so much good in the world.

Yes especially for black folks 

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9 hours ago, GOD said:

Yes especially for black folks 

Thank you! How anyone can ignore the activities that occurred under his leadership as mayor is beyond me. 

And that’s just one of many problematic issues with no substance Pete. 

 

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Pete is separate yet = to Bernie awful GE election candidate. Not at all hearing/seeing/feeling a winner. Again..even almost a YEAR later almost N/A AA support= you.do.not.win! lol. Soccer suburban Moms ain't enough. AAs are the core of who votes. White suburban Moms and a few college educated white men are just the extra needed icing. LUCKILY 8 months away so in a way (much as I want Trump fumigated 5 years ago) he wins BIG if election was today or next week. Yes, will be likely be 8 months of day after day hell and shit storms but Dems NEED to speed up Bloombergs purchase..like Amazon Prime style lol. Only one who has the army, machinery $$$. This is a war NOT an 'election'. All about money..as in massive war chests to at least try to combat the bonkers disinformation campaign coming. NOT the year for rainbow colored flying unicorns whose platform is all about gender neutral bathrooms= hard NO to Bernie, Liz and the Squad! If it was Jeb! we were dealing with, slim I'd get it.

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On 2/6/2020 at 5:22 PM, Jazzy Jan said:

Bernie all the way.  I love him, love his policies and passion.  A true alternative to the status quo of "Republicans lite " .  Far too many politicians  today talk of being " in the middle"  which is not much different to the corporate politicians and press that truly run things. 

I love Bernie too. 

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So, Pete intentionally went in to fuck over AA's in South Bend? Is that the implication here.

He may have been uninformed about certain things but please let's not like he went in with an iron fist with the intention of hurting the AA community.....which is the narrative some people are attempting to create. Pete isn't oblivious to his shortcomings and he's willing to get more informed.

Yup.....Trump got this in the bag for 2020. Thanks AGAIN "Bernie Bro" Dems! Keep waiting for that perfect candidate. #wonteverhappen #dreamon

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1 minute ago, Kurt420 said:

So, Pete intentionally went in to fuck over AA's in South Bend? Is that the implication here.

He may have been uninformed about certain things but please let's not like he went in with an iron fist with the intention of hurting the AA community.....which is the narrative some people are attempting to create. 

Yup.....Trump got this in the bag for 2020. Thanks Dems! Keep waiting for that perfect candidate. #wonteverhappen #dreamon

THIS. Unfortunately. 😢

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2 minutes ago, Martin B. said:

THIS. Unfortunately. 😢

The "my way or the highway" mentality of certain factions of the Dem party IS incredibly unfortunate. Talk about shitting in your own bed. 

Hillary is too "cold", Pete is too....whatever....racist I guess now? Is that what we're rolling with?? Biden is too "corporate" and represents the "old way". Basically, anyone that gets any bit of momentum over or equal to Bernie becomes a "problem". I really do like and respect Bernie but his diehard supporters can truly fuck off. Equal to Trumpers in my view.

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Outside of the top contenders, I actually like Klobuchar. Fat chance there but I feel like she's really improved over the past 6 months.

Honestly, I don't "hate" any of the Dem nominees. I'm open to just about any of them. Nobody is ever going to be perfect. Compromise people.....look it up!

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