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13 minutes ago, Nikki said:

the fact that some of her own fans support that kind of idea is just fucking insane. if anything, she needs to up her standards and undo a lot of the mess and show people who the real madonna is (the artist, not the fucking nicki or kim wannabe). the new butt and an anitta collab both have me very worried, but we'll see

what mess ? 

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1 hour ago, Kurt420 said:

No. Frozen was most certainly NOT a guaranteed hit. Frozen was a huge risk that despite how great it is, really could've gone either way in terms of commercial success. All the cards fell into place though. What people seem to not understand is that song quality (and who's definition of quality do we go by btw) is 1/10 of equation to a "hit". I'm reading lots of idealism here, "well if she releases a "good" song, it'll be a hit no matter what"......it just doesn't work that way. 

 I've said it for years, but this is why Madonna fans DO NOT need to have any say on her single releases!! Personal opinions get in the way of objectivity. 

This is just nonsense. Though I suspect you're (as usual) looking at it through purely US-centric eyes. Frozen smashed everywhere and announced that Madonna meant business and hadn't lost the knack for reinvention and capturing the zeitgeist after years of floundering in MOR Evita-esque blandness . It was a HIT before it was even released, before any promo kicked in, before it was on constant rotation, before anything. It just has that (h)it factor.

Music was the same only to a lesser extent as she was simply building on the foundations ROL set, and if the foundation was shaky the whole thing would have caved,

The closest she's come since is when the first two RH demos leaked and garnered almost universal positivity and anticipation.... that they went on to piss up the wall.

This is why Madonna needs to stop surrounding herself with yes people, naysayers and doomsday merchants who fill her head with crap about ageism and misogyny and conspiracies instead of dealing with the real issues of quality control, public relations and mismanagement. 

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On 1/5/2019 at 8:25 PM, elijah said:

Absolutely. BS & AP were pretty much continuation of ROL which everyone loved so they definitely played its part.

Indeed.

It's even more specific than that.

Beautiful Stranger and American Pie were produced specifically for the radio market, and this helped Music tremendously.

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6 minutes ago, Kim said:

This is just nonsense. Though I suspect you're (as usual) looking at it through purely US-centric eyes. Frozen smashed everywhere and announced that Madonna meant business and hadn't lost the knack for reinvention and capturing the zeitgeist after years of floundering in MOR blandness . It was a HIT before it was even released, before any promo kicked in, before it was on constant rotation, before anything. It just has that (h)it factor.

Music was the same only to a lesser extent as she was simply building on the foundations ROL set, and if the foundation was shaky the whole thing would have caved,

The closest she's come since is when the first two RH demos leaked and garnered almost universal positivity and anticipation.... that they went on to piss up the wall.

This is why Madonna needs to stop surrounding herself with yes people, naysayers and doomsday merchants who fill her head with crap about ageism and misogyny and conspiracies instead of dealing with the real issues of quality control, public relations and mismanagement. 

So much YES to this. 

Frozen was the the first REAL Madonna ‘event’ for an entirely new generation. Myself included. Those of us who were too young to really grasp anything prior to Frozen being released truly experienced this completely wide eyed and in awe. Everything about it was completely magical and shook the foundations of the music industry, MTV, and pop culture itself. The look. The songs. The image. All of it. 

And yes, Frozen was a hit before it was released. The anticipation was EVERY.WHERE. And when it was finally released, even my own Madonna bashing mother was taken aback. 

And the idea that Music piggy backed off the success of ROL is complete and total bullshit. In the States, the entire era was BIGGER than the ROL era. The first two singles were BIGGER than the first two singles off ROL. Both Music and DTM were played far more and had more longevity than any single released from ROL. The era was its OWN and didn’t need any help from ROL. The only difference was the level of anticipation for Music. With ROL, she hadn’t released a studio album in, what, 4 years?

Madonna’s eras have always pretty much stood on their merits and not on her previous efforts. 

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8 minutes ago, Kim said:

This is just nonsense. Though I suspect you're (as usual) looking at it through purely US-centric eyes. Frozen smashed everywhere and announced that Madonna meant business and hadn't lost the knack for reinvention and capturing the zeitgeist after years of floundering in MOR blandness . It was a HIT before it was even released, before any promo kicked in, before it was on constant rotation, before anything. It just has that (h)it factor.

Music was the same only to a lesser extent as she was simply building on the foundations ROL set, and if the foundation was shaky the whole thing would have caved,

The closest she's come since is when the first two RH demos leaked and garnered almost universal positivity and anticipation.... that they went on to piss up the wall.

This is why Madonna needs to stop surrounding herself with yes people, naysayers and doomsday merchants who fill her head with crap about ageism and misogyny and conspiracies instead of dealing with the real issues of quality control, public relations and mismanagement. 

I know ROL set a strong foundation for Music but let's not act like Music wouldn't have smashed on it's own merits had it been released in the opposite order. I'm just not buying the narrative that Music, one of her most successful, critically acclaimed and enduring hits wouldn't have smashed if the album that preceded it wouldn't have "set it up" for success. That's the gist of my post. Yes, my example of it being number one for eons and getting heavy radio play for six months, to the point where even *I* was sick of it is a US-centric example. Was it a quick rise and fall everywhere else in the world? I was always under the impression that it hung around for quite a while. 

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Nope. I think if Madonna jumped from Evita to dressing like a cowboy singing a ditty about muzak she's have had limited success if not been laughed outta town completely. I think that ROL (along with it's expertly crafted and expensive pr campaign about the birth of a new, kinder, zen like mother Madonna etc) was absolutely vital to get her back on top. That era will always be held up as how you do a "comeback" properly. Anyway, it's pointless to even attempt to remove an era or switch them around. There wouldn't be one without the other because of countless variables.

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I am assuming that the lead single(s) are being chosen now. So I do wonder if all of that ass controversy will make her flip the bird and release something like BIM, part 2 just to prove that a) she can (as if anyone ever doubted she couldn't) and b) to sort of ride on that wave of controversy. When told not to do something, she usually ends up doing it on purpose. 

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16 minutes ago, Cyber-Raga said:

I am assuming that the lead single(s) are being chosen now. So I do wonder if all of that ass controversy will make her flip the bird and release something like BIM, part 2 just to prove that a) she can (as if anyone ever doubted she couldn't) and b) to sort of ride on that wave of controversy. When told not to do something, she usually ends up doing it on purpose. 

If she did that, it would be extremely stupid of her. The perpetual ridiculous controversies she has been generating for the last five years do not serve her career or her brand.

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18 hours ago, VictorMarques said:

And I think is fucking insane how people don't learn nothing with Madonna history, and repeat all of she passed in your career, with the press and the critics of everybody, with another artist. 

Prejudice and hateful words isn't make the collaboration with Anitta didn't happens, and don't even will make the rhythm changes too...

Victor, PLEASE, just stop!

Anitta is a "good" brazilian artist  BUT she does not represent Brazilian popular music. A Duet with Marisa Monte would be wonderful. Pure poetry.

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10 minutes ago, Kim said:

Nope. I think if Madonna jumped from Evita to dressing like a cowboy singing a ditty about muzak she's have had limited success if not been laughed outta town completely. I think that ROL (along with it's expertly crafted and expensive pr campaign about the birth of a new, kinder, zen like mother Madonna etc) was absolutely vital to get her back on top. That era will always be held up as how you do a "comeback" properly. Anyway, it's pointless to even attempt to remove an era or switch them around. There wouldn't be one without the other because of countless variables.

Perhaps the "heaviness" of the ROL era made the public more thirsty to see if she could still pull off being the fun, spunky girl we all fell in love with. I could agree with that making Music more impactful. Music (the single) was for sure the "yang" to Frozen's "ying" in both sound and image. Even by 1998 though, Madonna hadn't done a really strong, dance banger in the vein of her most popular IC era tracks since the release of Vogue. Plus the Erotica/Sex era, Evita, lots of ballads etc....all sort of "heavy" things when you look at it, so I think the world would've accepted a fresh, fun, innovative, chirpy, top notch Madonna dance club banger even if it did immediately follow Evita. 

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1 hour ago, VictorMarques said:

And I think is fucking insane how people don't learn nothing with Madonna history, and repeat all of she passed in your career, with the press and the critics of everybody, with another artist. 

Prejudice and hateful words isn't make the collaboration with Anitta didn't happens, and don't even will make the rhythm changes too...

Madonna is a trained beautiful dancer. Shaking arse is not remotely skilful and she herself once tweeted a great post with a Kate Moss picture and the quote " we Vogue, not twerk" 

Madonna will do what she wants but I think her skill as a dancer and performer is wasted on shaking her arse around like so many are doing today. 

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1 minute ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Madonna is a trained beautiful dancer. Shaking arse is not remotely skilful and she herself once tweeted a great post with a Kate Moss picture and the quote " we Vogue, not twerk" 

Madonna will do what she wants but I think her skill as a dancer and performer is wasted on shaking her arse around like so many are doing today. 

Well, Madonna never will be shake her ass, like in this video, right? 

 

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1 hour ago, VictorMarques said:

Well, Madonna never will be shake her ass, like in this video, right? 

 

Again, Madonna can do what she wants. Personally, I think this is lame but just personal opinion. I have never found twerking or shaking arse around remotely attractive or skilful - for any artist. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anyone watched her Netflix show "Vai Anitta"? Rumor has it there are hidden clues to her collaboration with Madonna in it.

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1 hour ago, Je5u5 said:

Has anyone watched her Netflix show "Vai Anitta"? Rumor has it there are hidden clues to her collaboration with Madonna in it.

The only Vai I know lool

200.gif

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 4:55 PM, Martin B. said:

If she did that, it would be extremely stupid of her. The perpetual ridiculous controversies she has been generating for the last five years do not serve her career or her brand.

If the song and video are AMAIZING (brilliant, cutting edge, strong message, relatable) the butt controversy will only help, by drawing attention to the product. Come see the YouTube video for the butt controversy, stay and discover the amazing song and video. :) Makes me think of the Like a Virgin,  Papa Don't Preach, Like a Prayer videos controversies.

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1 hour ago, CalinB said:

If the song and video are AMAIZING (brilliant, cutting edge, strong message, relatable) the butt controversy will only help, by drawing attention to the product. Come see the YouTube video for the butt controversy, stay and discover the amazing song and video. 🙂 Makes me think of the Like a Virgin,  Papa Don't Preach, Like a Prayer videos controversies.

CalinB,  it depends what you mean by "butt controversy"   The videos you mentioned in your post were all incredible and the "contoversary"  in each song was mainly a message.  Like a Prayer was anti-racism,  Papa don't preach was about unwanted pregnancy with a story and Like a virgin video was not really controversial - only the lyrics of the song.  One thing I admire about Madonna so much is the way she has never been afraid to do the right thing and her message has been seen and admired for decades. 

People today are sick of twerking and shaking arses around.  It is done to death by so many performers and is not admired.   Shaking her butt around is just jumping on a tired bandwagon and honestly,  she is better than that.  It is not a new thing and people have seen it so much in pop culture now for years.  Not saying she is doing that,  but can't really see how a woman shaking her backside around is some kind of great awareness for body image like people are claiming.  She can do what she wants but I doubt it will bring her any positive reactions from people. 

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I never considered ROL as her comeback, simply because the Bedtime Stories and Evita eras were pretty successful.  BS sold 3 million US and 7-9 million Worldwide.  Madonna had a bunch of hit songs from 94-95 including her biggest US hit, Take a Bow.  In fact Madonna ranked as the #6 top selling artist of 1995 (singles and albums combined) off the back of BS and and Something to Remember (somewhat)

 

Evita was a decent sized hit, helped bring back the musical and Madonna was EVERYWHERE, on every magazine cover, including her second TIME cover, to promote the movie and the media was kissing her ass like crazy at the time, referring to her as ",the world's biggest star" etc, she won the Golden Globe, her new song won the Oscar etc

 

So I always laugh when people call ROL her comeback, I mean really?  Bitch was just on the damn cover of TIME magazine (again) for her last era!  A comeback was Cher with Believe, Tina Turner with Private Dancer, Mariah with Emancipation of Mimi, there career were DEAD as a doornail, Madonna's  music career, while not at it's peak, was VERY healthy going into ROL and her movie career was at it's peak

 

 

 

 

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On 1/7/2019 at 1:06 AM, Kim said:

This is just nonsense. Though I suspect you're (as usual) looking at it through purely US-centric eyes. Frozen smashed everywhere and announced that Madonna meant business and hadn't lost the knack for reinvention and capturing the zeitgeist after years of floundering in MOR Evita-esque blandness . It was a HIT before it was even released, before any promo kicked in, before it was on constant rotation, before anything. It just has that (h)it factor.

Music was the same only to a lesser extent as she was simply building on the foundations ROL set, and if the foundation was shaky the whole thing would have caved,

The closest she's come since is when the first two RH demos leaked and garnered almost universal positivity and anticipation.... that they went on to piss up the wall.

This is why Madonna needs to stop surrounding herself with yes people, naysayers and doomsday merchants who fill her head with crap about ageism and misogyny and conspiracies instead of dealing with the real issues of quality control, public relations and mismanagement. 

I just read this. IMO you summed it up perfectly. Some of her cringeworthy IG posts freak me out because I don’t understand what world of talking points she’s living in when it comes to her career. Didn’t her experience and spiritual teachings emphasize restraint and abstention in terms of reacting to criticism, or was I following an entirely different icon all these years? That said, I have a very good feeling about the music she will share this year, and am entirely prepared to remove the social media persona from the equation.  

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On 1/6/2019 at 5:17 PM, Jazzy Jan said:

With all due respect,  why is shaking asses any kind of great thing to aspire to ?  If anything, it is jumping on a tired trend that people are truly sick of.  Madonna is so much better than that and I think she will prove it. 

God bless you. Doing that would be... reductive, as a certain someone would say...

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6 hours ago, Herfaceremains said:

I just read this. IMO you summed it up perfectly. Some of her cringeworthy IG posts freak me out because I don’t understand what world of talking points she’s living in when it comes to her career. Didn’t her experience and spiritual teachings emphasize restraint and abstention in terms of reacting to criticism, or was I following an entirely different icon all these years? That said, I have a very good feeling about the music she will share this year, and am entirely prepared to remove the social media persona from the equation.  

Yeah well, she literally gets THOUSANDS of shitty comments almost daily posted in her IG comments. At the end of the day, she is a human being so she's bound to "snap" here and there. I think anyone would. Yes, back in the day she had lots of criticism as well but it's not like she really had the option to immediately "clapback" at someone in the way that it's possible to do now. 

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18 hours ago, Samo said:

So I always laugh when people call ROL her comeback, I mean really? 

I think it's because it was her new peak at superstardom, the first one since the early 90's. While Bedtime Stories was quite successful, and Evita was a big success for her, she didn't really reach the success of her glory days until Frozen came out. It really changed everything for her, she was the definition of cool again, everyone loved it... So it was a comeback to her status of undeniably to most successful woman at the moment, she was the it star again... Bedtime Stories and Evita couldn't compare to how universally accepted she was with ROL.

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40 minutes ago, functions_X said:

I think it's because it was her new peak at superstardom, the first one since the early 90's. While Bedtime Stories was quite successful, and Evita was a big success for her, she didn't really reach the success of her glory days until Frozen came out. It really changed everything for her, she was the definition of cool again, everyone loved it... So it was a comeback to her status of undeniably to most successful woman at the moment, she was the it star again... Bedtime Stories and Evita couldn't compare to how universally accepted she was with ROL.

True. I still remember the articles pre-ROL when they were saying her glory days are over and her best days are behind her. Well ROL was a huge comeback. The greatest comeback of any star I think.

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6 hours ago, functions_X said:

I think it's because it was her new peak at superstardom, the first one since the early 90's. While Bedtime Stories was quite successful, and Evita was a big success for her, she didn't really reach the success of her glory days until Frozen came out. It really changed everything for her, she was the definition of cool again, everyone loved it... So it was a comeback to her status of undeniably to most successful woman at the moment, she was the it star again... Bedtime Stories and Evita couldn't compare to how universally accepted she was with ROL.

Yes 100% correct you are.  It was a "repeak" for her and the Music album too in a lot of ways.

 

But Madonna didn't have an all out flop era until American Life, 20 years into her career, and even that's debatable because the album dud decent worldwide, the singles did well outside the US and the tour was huge at the box office 

 

Actually, Madonna has never had an all out Mariah/Christina/Janet sized flop era

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On 1/16/2019 at 5:59 AM, Herfaceremains said:

I just read this. IMO you summed it up perfectly. Some of her cringeworthy IG posts freak me out because I don’t understand what world of talking points she’s living in when it comes to her career. Didn’t her experience and spiritual teachings emphasize restraint and abstention in terms of reacting to criticism, or was I following an entirely different icon all these years? That said, I have a very good feeling about the music she will share this year, and am entirely prepared to remove the social media persona from the equation.  

I think social media continue to make so many people behave differently online than they normally would.:lol:

There is so much extreme negativity and criticism on Madonna's social media that it must effect her if she's actually reading the comments. 

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5 hours ago, elijah said:

True. I still remember the articles pre-ROL when they were saying her glory days are over and her best days are behind her. Well ROL was a huge comeback. The greatest comeback of any star I think.

Tina Turner was on welfare and forgetten about, Mariah was paid to leave the label and was flopping like crazy commercially, Cher hadn't had a hit in 10 years prior to Believe and how recent albums had struggled to go gold...

 

So no Madonna was STILL having multiplatinum album after multiplatinum album prior to ROL, she was still one of the world's biggest selling female artists, most of her singles were still big hits, The Girlie Show made more money than Blond Ambition with fewer shows, her film career was at it's peak with Evita etc. Her ROL "comeback" wasn't really a "comeback"

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On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 11:34 AM, Samo said:

I never considered ROL as her comeback, simply because the Bedtime Stories and Evita eras were pretty successful.  BS sold 3 million US and 7-9 million Worldwide.  Madonna had a bunch of hit songs from 94-95 including her biggest US hit, Take a Bow.  In fact Madonna ranked as the #6 top selling artist of 1995 (singles and albums combined) off the back of BS and and Something to Remember (somewhat)

 

Evita was a decent sized hit, helped bring back the musical and Madonna was EVERYWHERE, on every magazine cover, including her second TIME cover, to promote the movie and the media was kissing her ass like crazy at the time, referring to her as ",the world's biggest star" etc, she won the Golden Globe, her new song won the Oscar etc

 

So I always laugh when people call ROL her comeback, I mean really?  Bitch was just on the damn cover of TIME magazine (again) for her last era!  A comeback was Cher with Believe, Tina Turner with Private Dancer, Mariah with Emancipation of Mimi, there career were DEAD as a doornail, Madonna's  music career, while not at it's peak, was VERY healthy going into ROL and her movie career was at it's peak

 

 

 

 

This

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1 hour ago, Nick said:

I think social media continue to make so many people behave differently online than they normally would.:lol:

There is so much extreme negativity and criticism on Madonna's social media that it must effect her if she's actually reading the comments. 

I agree with you and kurt420, but I also feel it’s entirely possible to maintain an IG presence without enabling comments. That would be a much wiser philosophy to follow in my opinion. It makes no sense to me that a person of her accomplishments, distinction and experience would choose to expose herself to such bile and vitriol unless she gets some type of kick out of it, which seems bizarre but not entirely impossible or uncharacteristic considering she has always been driven by criticism on some level. That said, she’s also shown consistent signs of being negatively affected when she does expose herself to the intensity of polarity that she can create. Therefore I personally cannot understand why, after years of shielding herself from critics, reviews and the press in general, she would now wish to sift through the swamps of online trolls commenting on her plastic surgeries, her age, her relevance, and occasionally her (lack of🤬) talent. If she wants to test the waters of public and fan opinion, have someone put together a weekly report of media reports and fan forum dialog. As Kim said, this wouldn’t be hard if she dipped a little less into the “yes person” pond. Naturally she is shielded given her wealth and her need for safety and security for both herself and her family as a polarizing public figure, but she’s more often than not shown herself to be a relatively self-aware person...that part gets lost in her social media presence because it seems like she feeds the narrative set by the trolls and online tabloidism by acknowledging their talking points and therefore making them relevant to her image and her message. 

Its probably a no win situation for her, and so I don’t say any of this without understanding that we know NOTHING about her personal views or her private life, and that the amalgam of what I have observed for the 35 years I’ve been in awe of this extraordinary person is just a minute representation of what drives her in her own mind. There can never be enough Madonna as far as I’m concerned, and I love that she still makes me question my thoughts, that I still regularly find myself on this rollercoaster ride of adulation, frustration, contemplation and then love all over again...every time. No matter what she does! In the end, it always makes sense somehow, and so I can debate til the cows come home...she always delivers something unexpected that ends up fitting right into the master plan!

As for Ray of Light, it was essentially a return to form in the media and the general public’s eyes, and therefore a comeback. Perhaps not as remarkable as Tina Turner’s, or Mariah Carey’s for that matter, mainly because it’s true that Madonna has never had a project or an era characterized as an all-out flop like Carey, nor had she fallen into oblivion for a decade like Turner had. It may have just been a narrative created for PR, but her consistent chart peaks were no longer guaranteed by 1995, and as Madonna has always been written off at any sign of weakness, it was easy to write her off as past her prime when Bedtime Story and Human Nature failed to ignite the charts. Take A Bow was only a massive hit in the US, and her public persona grated rather than endeared from the end of 1990 on. The idea that Madonna had matured both personally and in her creative output post-Evita was a huge PR coup that really reinvigorated her commercial appeal until American Life, which would never have suffered the commercial fate it did if she had not positioned the album as a political indictment of George W Bush and American society at large. Americans don’t like to be criticized as a united body. We can only hate each other tribally, not nationally! So she was toast because those who were politically in alignment with her alleged message recognized that the work had neither political weight nor the courage of its conviction with the sole political angle silenced by Madonna’s choice to withdraw her video for the lead single. All just my observation, but it’s definitely how it all resonated in my world. 

Edited by Herfaceremains
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