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1 minute ago, karbatal said:

Sadly things are changing for the worst. All anger is fuelling far right movements. Look at Trump and the rest.

That's because the left wing In Europe has failed miserably and they don't even get it .They were soaked in scandals and corruption as governments and the lost touch with the people .It's the same in every European country 

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2 hours ago, sotos8 said:

That's because the left wing In Europe has failed miserably and they don't even get it .They were soaked in scandals and corruption as governments and the lost touch with the people .It's the same in every European country 

Where in Europe is the so called "left wing" still existent? When it comes to political parties I would like to argue that everything has become very centrist and that it is exactly the absence of a real "left wing" alternative that is responsible for the rise of right wing groups. All they have to do is to pick up all those who are unhappy how things are going or hijacking movements that may even have a proper cause like those yellow vests. Is someone seriously believing those riots were initiated by normal citizens that were demonstrating against that fuel tax? 

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1 hour ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Where in Europe is the so called "left wing" still existent? When it comes to political parties I would like to argue that everything has become very centrist and that it is exactly the absence of a real "left wing" alternative that is responsible for the rise of right wing groups. All they have to do is to pick up all those who are unhappy how things are going or hijacking movements that may even have a proper cause like those yellow vests. Is someone seriously believing those riots were initiated by normal citizens that were demonstrating against that fuel tax? 

Many countries have new left parties like Podemos in Spain. Sadly they get lost in absurdities or get real with the stablish ment and realise the elites have it all under control (Tsipras' party in Greece for example).

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4 hours ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Where in Europe is the so called "left wing" still existent? When it comes to political parties I would like to argue that everything has become very centrist and that it is exactly the absence of a real "left wing" alternative that is responsible for the rise of right wing groups. All they have to do is to pick up all those who are unhappy how things are going or hijacking movements that may even have a proper cause like those yellow vests. Is someone seriously believing those riots were initiated by normal citizens that were demonstrating against that fuel tax? 

Ridiculous. The previous government in power in France was the Socialist Party.

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13 hours ago, Magician said:

:crazy:

 

 

Is this true? Omg. 

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14 hours ago, Magician said:

:crazy:

 

 

Ahead of the curve? Well, only if begging the OPEC to not lower the oil output so US citizens can still get their cheap fuel  is ahead of the curve? The truth is, his loyal subjects will get very angry with winter coming and they may need to pay substantially more money for fuel and heating oil, not to mention for products that contain oil, so basically everything plastic. Say goodbye to the money you saved by lowered taxes. And emmissions went down in the US? How is that possible considering the hundreds of coal mines re-opened and giving tens of thousands of workers their jobs back. …. Oops, that never happened.

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The thing is that the demonstrations in Paris have nothing to do with the Paris agreement and nobody was saying We Want Trump. This is like when he said he had spoken with Finland's minister about the fires or when he spoke of an attack in Stockholm. Pure LIES. 

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About the demonstrations it worries me that people are not asking for higher wages but for lower taxes. If Europe is a success in social protection is thanks to the taxes. The problem is firms trying to be more competitive by lowering wages. 

It worries me because far right parties always promise lower taxes because they aim for cuts in social protection.

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The population at large doesn't want cuts in social protection, even in the United States. They want good social protections, but they don't want their taxes to be drowned in a bulging mass of bureaucrats who use public funds to refurnish their offices with nice paintings or to pay for useless vanity projects that serve no one but politicians and high ranking corporate citizens. Meanwhile, in France for instance, the government cut taxes on high fortunes to appease big money. That is Macron's playpen after all, big money, big cheese heads.

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Macron just promised increases in salaries and cut taxes .He is in panic ..These french people when they fight ,they mean business

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On 12/9/2018 at 6:40 AM, Magician said:

:crazy:

 

 

What a disgusting opportunist Trump is.  He makes me feel ill.  He has no idea about what people are protesting about but as always uses other's problems to promote himself.  

He misses the point to that people are frustrating that poorer and middle classes pay more tax than the wealthy do.   America is a tax haven for the super wealthy.  He has no idea. 

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Macron promised things that he had no intention of delivering.  Wage growth has been stagnant for so long.  The cost of living keeps going up,  people's wages are not matching it ( unless a CEO where they get  huge money and pay rises for how many jobs they send off-shore )  About time,  people started protesting about these things.  I hate the violence and destruction of property but that is from the elements that go to protests to cause trouble.  Protests though ( not riots or violence )  are needed to show governments that people matter and are angry. 

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On 12/9/2018 at 12:14 PM, karbatal said:

About the demonstrations it worries me that people are not asking for higher wages but for lower taxes. If Europe is a success in social protection is thanks to the taxes. The problem is firms trying to be more competitive by lowering wages. 

It worries me because far right parties always promise lower taxes because they aim for cuts in social protection.

but aren´t these taxes mostly affection middle class and lower classes?

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10 minutes ago, promise to try said:

but aren´t these taxes mostly affection middle class and lower classes?

Yes, but imo the fight should be that rich people and especially international firms pay more. And that wages are higher after a decade of austerity.  All money, well administered, pays for social care, hospitals, schools... 

If riches pay less after Macrons laws and middle classes too, social covertures will be more scarce. 

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Is Environmentalism Just for Rich People?

Sometimes it can seem as if only the privileged support the cause. But the truth is more complicated.

The Yellow Vest protests that have convulsed France for the past few weeks, leaving chic Parisian neighborhoods smoldering, are making environmentalists nervous.

The protests began in reaction to President Emmanuel Macron’s announcement that a planned increase in taxes on gasoline, part of an ongoing ambitious effort to combat global warming, would take effect in January. Though the tax was favored by Parisians, who have access to efficient public transportation, it was seen as a provocation by struggling residents of the country’s rural and suburban areas. (“The taxes are rising on everything,” a rural retiree told a reporter from this newspaper. “They put taxes on top of taxes.”) Caught off guard by the intensity and popularity of the protests, Mr. Macron backed down on the tax hike, but not before the Yellow Vest movement morphed into a leaderless, anti-establishment revolt that now threatens his government.

As with working-class support for the faltering coal industry in the United States, the question arises: Is environmentalism a boutique issue, a cause only the well-off can afford to worry about?

Some social science suggests the answer is yes. In a landmark 1995 paper, the sociologist Ronald Inglehart observed an intriguing pattern in public support for the environmental movement. According to a public opinion survey he conducted in 43 nations, the countries where large percentages of the population supported strong environmental policies shared two characteristics: They were dealing with major environmental challenges (air and water pollution and species conservation were among the top priorities at the time) and they were affluent.

Mr. Inglehart argued that citizens were apt to prioritize environmental concerns only if they were rich enough not to have to fret about more basic things like food and shelter. Environmentalism was part of a larger “postmaterialist” mind-set, focused on human self-realization and quality of life, that was naturally to be found in the world’s economically advanced societies — and especially among better-educated, wealthier citizens. Mr. Inglehart anticipated that growing prosperity, rising education levels and increasingly dire environmental circumstances would translate into the further spread of environmental consciousness in the years to come.

In some ways the situation in France fits this theory. France is wealthy and well educated. And environmentalism is big there. A 2017 study, for instance, found that 79 percent of the French population believes climate change to be a very serious problem. It is plausible to think that some of the anger the Yellow Vests are unleashing on Paris revolves around the cultural gap separating those French citizens privileged enough to be able to devote time, attention and money to matters like the environment from those not as fortunate.

Thought-provoking as Mr. Inglehart’s thesis is, however, it’s not hard to identify weaknesses. Here’s an obvious one: The United States, like France, is a prosperous country with a well-educated population. Yet according to a survey conducted this year by the Pew Research Center, only 44 percent of Americans say they care a great deal about climate change.

More recent research bolsters this skeptical view. Work by the sociologists Riley Dunlap and Richard York, based on a wider range of data, turns Mr. Inglehart’s finding on its head: They have discovered that the publics of poorer countries facing imminent resource loss from environmental destruction often hold the strongest pro-environment attitudes. For example, the island nation of Fiji — which stands to be decimated by global warming, rising sea levels and storms — ratified the Paris climate agreement on a unanimous parliamentary vote before any other nation did.

Another study, by the political scientist Matto Mildenberger and the geographer Anthony Leiserowitz, has found “no evidence” that people became less attuned to climate change when their economic prospects dwindled after the 2008 financial crisis.

Mr. Dunlap and Mr. York emphasize the contingency and variability of public support for environmental causes and practices. How much backing there will be — and in what quarters — depends on the specific environmental, economic and political conditions countries face. Environmental protection efforts can advance if the environmental movement acts strategically.

The notion that there are few hard-and-fast rules when it comes to public support for environmentalism has influenced the response of environmentalists to the Yellow Vest protests. While raising taxes to reduce fossil fuel consumption or fund green energy transitions is essential, they say, depending on how and when such policies are proposed, they may spur a backlash. So smart rollouts and messaging matter. Mr. Macron’s environmental policies, for example, were announced from on high, without meaningful input from all the communities that would be affected.

Environmentalists insist that there is no reason in principle why a more effective communications strategy could not be found to pull together urban dwellers and the rural working- and lower-middle-class in a broad environmental coalition. The fact that the French public is sympathetic to the cause of the Yellow Vests but also concerned about the climate shows that the protests were never really about the environment in the first place.

Such a perspective is comforting. But it arguably understates the magnitude of the problem the environmental movement now confronts. Yes, contrary to the theory of postmaterialism, the well-off aren’t the only ones who care about climate change and the environment. Yet in many of today’s capitalist democracies, class and status resentments, fostered by rampant inequality and whipped up by opportunistic politicians, have developed to such an extent that issues like the environment that affect everyone are increasingly seen through the lens of group conflict and partisan struggle.

Differences between urban and rural, new economy and old, college educated versus working class and cosmopolitan versus local loom larger than ever. Although the research of the sociologist Dana R. Fisher shows that in the United States, climate change activists have been working to diversify their ranks, the trust needed for truly large-scale environmental coalition building is wearing thin.

Thus a different interpretation of the Yellow Vest protest may be warranted. Without a concerted effort to address inequality — which some in the environmental movement consider someone else’s department — the bold policy changes needed to slow global warming risk never getting off the ground.

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^ An article written thousand of kilometres away and showing they have zero idea.

It is not about the taxes on environment on oil. It's about wages frozen for years and years while the cost of living is rising. 

Good point, though, to focus on environmentalist and rich people because when it comes to the EU, some meassures to protect environment are very nice and good in rich countries but impossible to reach in poor ones. Example? Reducing coal and wood as heating. A family in Denmark can afford the cost of changing the system at home and the bills of gas, but in other places it is simply unaffordable. 

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15 hours ago, MistressMadge said:

What’s even going on in France. I’m confused.?

Cost of living in the EU is rising for years, wages are frozen or going down, traditional parties are lost in the mediocrity and new extremist parties are benefiting from the situation. They blame migration or refugees so they get votes and can apply the supremacist agenda. 

People are angry and show in a different way depending on the country. Sometimes, as it's happening now in France, it's on the street. Other times anger is expresses in elections: Brexit, Catalonia, LePen, Austria and Hungary...

Austerity measures lead to this.  

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