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Jazzy Jan

Sick of the "great business woman" description

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Having a rant but interested to see if other fans feel the same. 

Often I read articles and news items that try to explain why Madonna has been so successful.  They usually completely downplay her musical and performing skills and trot out that fans admire her as she reinvents herself and is a great "business woman"   That and the backhanded compliments that often dominate articles happen too often. 

Personally, I could not care less about her business skills. Her music, videos and performances are what made me a fan who has loved her from the start.  I am positive that not one person who loves Madonna does so because she is a great "business woman"   We are talking of the biggest selling female artist ever whose music is so important and loved not a CEO or banker. 

 That is of such little importance to Madonna fans and I find it insulting that they mention that as a reason why she is so successful and loved. Especially when her music is the best pop music ever produced in my opinion. 

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Absolutely agree with you in this. As if her success came out of marketing strategies and nothing else. We share the same thoughts :asian:

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This is so true! I found it especially offensive when she did the radio interviews in 2003 (rick dees etc) 

reminding her what a brilliant business woman she was, and M thanking them(the radio djs) politely. And way before that, it was everywhere in magazines, interviews, articles. I agree that its unfair. It once again takes the focus away from her real talents. 

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YES! I see it as such an insult, a backhanded compliment. It's like saying she's calculating, but not an artist. It's really disrespectful. 

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Just another line to undermine her actual talents, work ethic and groundbreaking accomplishments. They just can't bring it upon themselves to actually give it up to her.

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Ellen did a montage of her favorite musical moments on her 2500th show and Madonna was not part of it

 

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They'll also undermine her musical artistry saying she's a great "marketer".

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always felt the same way about that. they can't understand her success because it is hers only. it is human nature to do that i think. when someone can't understand something, instead of asking questions or being inspired, they turn things into gossip, jealousy, and conspiracy, break someone apart until the person is just  objects and not another human, or they think someone or something too good to be true. i always noticed how people always try to downplay her as an artist. but i think in general she is very undermined.

for example: it  never made sense to me when people would lump her with kylie, britney, spice girls, and all the other sugar pop acts. that also felt like they were trying to undermine her.  for me she fits the conceptual artist genre more. My itunes and spotify is, for example: bjork, lana del rey, david bowie, madonna, fka twigs, garbage, and so forth.  

Also when people would cover her music there are very very few people who can bring her songs justice. again another sign of undermining what she brings to the table.

i think it's because maybe people expect creative people to be self destructive or disorganized? one thing only? and since she was always making an effort not to be, and still be creative, maybe she is too much for most people to understand? it's always been very bizarre to me.

 

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I totally understand what you’re saying, but I perceive that line as something more of a 90s thing together with the Material Girl headline used to undermine her talent... I think it took full force with the infamous Forbes Magazine cover from 1990. 

To me, the issue goes further than using cliché descriptions to downplay her. I perceive “writers and or intellectuals” feel better about themselves when in their “critic’s role” have the potential and power to criticize one of the most successful stars that has ever lived. Not one of those people has come near the degree of success Madonna has and that’s very hurtful to insecure minds and in some degree it gives them the false sense of an “edge” or intelectual positioning. 

I’m really past worrying or getting mad about what an unknown writer says, even if he’s from the most important newspaper in the world. Media is so fragmented now, they way we consume news and information has changed so much that anyone and everyone has a voice but in return people have no authority or credentials anymore. 

I do believe in my heart people know who Madonna is and what she stands for, she’s part of the world history by now and she’s already imbedded in the general consciousness, people might like her or hate her, but I doubt people would think she’s talentless 35 years later, and if they do it’s their loss and our gain. 

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1 hour ago, FreeMySoul said:

Ellen did a montage of her favorite musical moments on her 2500th show and Madonna was not part of it

 

She appeared after Katy Perry and only for 4 seconds.

But they used her name as a clickbait  lmao

 

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1 hour ago, FreeMySoul said:

Ellen did a montage of her favorite musical moments on her 2500th show and Madonna was not part of it

 

She said here are a few of my favorite moments. Not "here are all of my favorite moments" 

 

And, I don't want to be mean, but Madonna has always handled her career like a business woman and she's the best at that. She's put in as much effort (well, maybe a little less) into her skin products as she does into actually promoting her music, just as an example. When she releases music she does it like... Madonna partners up with GRINDR/APPLE/SNAPCHAT to release her music!  It's all very businessy.I don't get why you guys get so bothered by it.

I DO hate when people say "she's not the greatest musician, but she's a marketing genius," but that's another thing. 

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The business woman line is too often used as some kind of backhanded compliment. However, it is true. She is a good business woman & I respect her for that as much as I do for her talent. I'm probably in the minority on this though. 

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6 hours ago, eroticerotic said:

always felt the same way about that. they can't understand her success because it is hers only. it is human nature to do that i think. when someone can't understand something, instead of asking questions or being inspired, they turn things into gossip, jealousy, and conspiracy, break someone apart until the person is just  objects and not another human, or they think someone or something too good to be true. i always noticed how people always try to downplay her as an artist. but i think in general she is very undermined.

for example: it  never made sense to me when people would lump her with kylie, britney, spice girls, and all the other sugar pop acts. that also felt like they were trying to undermine her.  for me she fits the conceptual artist genre more. My itunes and spotify is, for example: bjork, lana del rey, david bowie, madonna, fka twigs, garbage, and so forth.  

Also when people would cover her music there are very very few people who can bring her songs justice. again another sign of undermining what she brings to the table.

i think it's because maybe people expect creative people to be self destructive or disorganized? one thing only? and since she was always making an effort not to be, and still be creative, maybe she is too much for most people to understand? it's always been very bizarre to me.

 

Best post in this thread and yes Madonna is part of the WORLD HISTORY, not trashy acts like Kylies or Porkriahs. Sorry - that's just the truth everyone has to accept. 

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7 hours ago, FreeMySoul said:

Ellen did a montage of her favorite musical moments on her 2500th show and Madonna was not part of it

 

dont be lazy. do research before you post.

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5 hours ago, White Heat said:

The business woman line is too often used as some kind of backhanded compliment. However, it is true. She is a good business woman & I respect her for that as much as I do for her talent. I'm probably in the minority on this though. 

White Heat, nothing wrong with you admiring her as a good business woman.  You also love her talent and music.  You know she is also talented and an artist.  :thumbsup:

I started this topic because I had a debate with a colleague yesterday. She was comparing Madonna to Taylor Swift and saying how Taylor is more talented because she writes her own songs and has not relied on sex appeal.  :banghead: Then said that Madonna is a great business woman though. I know she has got this from the stupid articles that keep focusing on Madonna as mainly a business woman and down play her talent.  I read that all the time in newspapers, magazines, blogs etc and it always annoys me. 

I am sick of defending Madonna to people that get their ideas from biased articles - often written by ex-fans. 

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I don’t get it, Madonna’s popularity has always been because she knows how to write and perform GOOD pop music. She never needed discounts like others, never settled for being a local act, never relied on other artists until the world used her age against her. People just can’t comprehend a woman who took control of her own career, and wasn’t a srudio controlled bimbo like Mariah, Toilet and Gaga.

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@Jazzy Jan - rant accepted!!

I love that this forum is full of intelligent FANS who all have their own slant on Madonna. We can all agree that 35 years in 'the business' cannot be done without talent, gumption and, hey maybe a little bit of business nous! 

But -- the songs! The videos! The performances. Art art art!!

I just put it down to jealousy, ignorance and basic human nature (the negative side) when it comes to all these backhanded compliments.

As it has been said, Madonna is the business, woman!

image.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, Queen Vika said:

I don’t get it, Madonna’s popularity has always been because she knows how to write and perform GOOD pop music. She never needed discounts like others, never settled for being a local act, never relied on other artists until the world used her age against her. People just can’t comprehend a woman who took control of her own career, and wasn’t a srudio controlled bimbo like Mariah, Toilet and Gaga.

Yes, comparing Madonna unfavourably to the likes of Gaga, Kylie, Taylor, Britney etc is like comparing and saying Justin Bieber or Ed Sheeran are more talented than Prince was.  Then adding as a footnote that Prince is a great businessman. It is ludicrous. 

 

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Madonna is a rare phenomenon in many ways & she has penetrated the consciousness of the culture in a profound way. Her unique talents & music is shockingly downplayed but feel it doesn’t take away from the TRUTH.

 

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2 hours ago, Nick said:

Madonna is a rare phenomenon in many ways & she has penetrated the consciousness of the culture in a profound way. Her unique talents & music is shockingly downplayed but feel it doesn’t take away from the TRUTH.

 

She is a very savvy and smart business woman otherwise she wouldn’t have remained relevant for all these years, which doesn’t take away from her great talents only adds to them. 

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I think it has to be with the fact that the 80s were dominated by men in economy. Well, still is the reality ,but the fact that a woman expressed herself cunningly and was getting richer and richer instead of being the puppet of a mogul was really BIG NEWS back then. 

I find incredibly flattering that the first thing said about Madonna is that she's very clever. But it is true that when it comes to gender inequalities and comments on women, things that we are used to hear or read afterwards are not as positive as we thought. Thank you Jan, for bringing this debate. This will be interesting. 

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The idea that anyone can be successful just with clever marketing is rubbish. That can only get you so far. Madonna knows how to drum up debate and controversy, but when it comes down to it, the fans love her music. They see something appealing about her personality and keep coming back for more. You can’t fool people for decades if the product is bad. 

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15 hours ago, Pedro said:

I totally understand what you’re saying, but I perceive that line as something more of a 90s thing together with the Material Girl headline used to undermine her talent... I think it took full force with the infamous Forbes Magazine cover from 1990. 

To me, the issue goes further than using cliché descriptions to downplay her. I perceive “writers and or intellectuals” feel better about themselves when in their “critic’s role” have the potential and power to criticize one of the most successful stars that has ever lived. Not one of those people has come near the degree of success Madonna has and that’s very hurtful to insecure minds and in some degree it gives them the false sense of an “edge” or intelectual positioning. 

I’m really past worrying or getting mad about what an unknown writer says, even if he’s from the most important newspaper in the world. Media is so fragmented now, they way we consume news and information has changed so much that anyone and everyone has a voice but in return people have no authority or credentials anymore. 

I do believe in my heart people know who Madonna is and what she stands for, she’s part of the world history by now and she’s already imbedded in the general consciousness, people might like her or hate her, but I doubt people would think she’s talentless 35 years later, and if they do it’s their loss and our gain. 

I so agree with you. Writers and critics aren't what they used to be. Anyone with a keyboard can be a 'writer' nowadays.

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