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Another day. Another mass shooting in America.

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12 hours ago, jaron said:

Trump calls Texas church shooting a 'mental health problem at the highest level,' says gunman 'deranged'

:chuckle:

 

White gun man - mental health

muslim man - terrorism

 

oh well, I love this world

I have always know the word "terrorism" to mean violence, murder or intimidation with the purpose of achieving a political, religious or ideological cause.  

These deranged evil pond scum who kill innocent people for their own evil enjoyment without any ideological or political reason are technically not considered terrorists by definition. They are as evil and dangerous as anyone though and should be held in the lowest form of contemp by everyone. 

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6 hours ago, Hector said:

For the past day all of those fucking idiotic, NRA-tainted Republicans and Trump are saying it's "too soon" to address gun control. They say that excuse for every big mass shooting! The Las Vegas massacre is "old news" now, and we've had a mass shooting nearly every day since then, so we are well overdue for them to seriously address this chronic hell we have with gun violence in this country.

Conservatives wanna blame everything BUT guns :rotfl:bunch of nutty people!

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The new normal: People are killed in mass in America. No one cares enough to do anything.

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7 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

I have always know the word "terrorism" to mean violence, murder or intimidation with the purpose of achieving a political, religious or ideological cause.  

These deranged evil pond scum who kill innocent people for their own evil enjoyment without any ideological or political reason are technically not considered terrorists by definition. They are as evil and dangerous as anyone though and should be held in the lowest form of contemp by everyone. 

Yes. Agree with you and with part of the message from @elijah. It is different to plan something to create terror and confusion so one certain issue is vindicated, and another one to go and kill 50 people in a church without a message at all. That's the difference between a terror atack and a simple attack (independently of the number of deaths). 

In my opinion the main issue would be to difference real terrorists from crazy people. For example, the attack in Barcelona was made by real terrorists, with a plan and focused on a certain aim, whereas the attack in New York las week was made by a crazy person, no matter if they shout Allah Akbar. One big problem now is that if the person comes from a muslim country or shouts some muslim terrorist junk, the attack is labelled as terrorist, but many times that is not the case. And that only helps making bigger the legend of ISIS, which is not as powerful as people think (many attacks are made by lone wolfs who are more crazy than other thing).

Vegas = crazy

Orlando = crazy 

Paris = terrorist

Barcelona = terrorist

11-S = terrorist

Differencing between terrorist and crazy does not mean that one is worse or more important than the other. It is simply that the ways to fight against these attacks are different. To fight and prevent a crazy attack has to do with society itself, access to guns, early treatments, messages sent in media... And the terror attack is fought through Defense, Secret Services, international c ooperation... 

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45 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Yes. Agree with you and with part of the message from @elijah. It is different to plan something to create terror and confusion so one certain issue is vindicated, and another one to go and kill 50 people in a church without a message at all. That's the difference between a terror atack and a simple attack (independently of the number of deaths). 

In my opinion the main issue would be to difference real terrorists from crazy people. For example, the attack in Barcelona was made by real terrorists, with a plan and focused on a certain aim, whereas the attack in New York las week was made by a crazy person, no matter if they shout Allah Akbar. One big problem now is that if the person comes from a muslim country or shouts some muslim terrorist junk, the attack is labelled as terrorist, but many times that is not the case. And that only helps making bigger the legend of ISIS, which is not as powerful as people think (many attacks are made by lone wolfs who are more crazy than other thing).

Vegas = crazy

Orlando = crazy 

Paris = terrorist

Barcelona = terrorist

11-S = terrorist

Differencing between terrorist and crazy does not mean that one is worse or more important than the other. It is simply that the ways to fight against these attacks are different. To fight and prevent a crazy attack has to do with society itself, access to guns, early treatments, messages sent in media... And the terror attack is fought through Defense, Secret Services, international c ooperation... 

Agree 100 % 

I don't think it is downplaying the situation when crazy lone wolf gun massacres are not described as terrorism. There is no strategic planning by groups of people in these lone wolf attacks.  

In actuality, these mass gun shootings by crazy deranged cowards are often more dangerous to society.  More Americans are killed senselessly by these nutters than by terrorists. With terrorist attacks by groups, there are ways for intelligence to intercept their plans although very difficult.  A Lone Wolf who want to commit mass murder is harder to predict. Why it is so wrong that the American law makers do not try to use change to try to stop these attacks. The American people deserve so much better. 

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:ohgoodgrief:

Kellyanne Conway Says Debating Gun Control Now 'Disrespects The Dead'

Mary Papenfuss

HuffPost, November 6, 2017

White House counselor Kellyanne Conway blasted renewed criticism about politicians’ failure to enact stricter gun controls in the wake of the Texas church shooting, saying it’s “disrespectful to the dead.”

Conway was responding to a question on Fox News’ “Fox & Friends” on Monday about tweets by comedian and TV personality Chelsea Handler in the wake of the Sunday shooting at a Sutherland Springs Baptist church that killed 26 people, half of them children. 

“Innocent people go to church on Sunday to honor their God and ... get shot [and] killed,” Handler tweeted. “What country? America. Why? Republicans.” She also complained that the “government watches these mass shootings and does nothing.”

Conway said she was “sorry that we even have to show her Twitter comments” and called them “so beyond any type of reasonable response that anyone should have.” She complained: “People are taking to Twitter in the comfort of their very luxurious lives, pointing fingers.”

In a dig at Handler and apparently others clamoring for increased gun controls, Conway said that the “rush to judgment, particularly by people who just see politics and Trump derangement in every single thing they do, it doesn’t help the victims, and it’s disrespectful to the dead.” 

Conway said she was “very happy President Trump is our commander in chief and our leader ... because, unfortunately, every president has to help heal the nation at different times, different tragedies.” 

Dismissing gun control concerns as “politicizing” the deadly attack at the Texas church appeared to be a GOP talking point Monday. When Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) was asked by a reporter about gun control during an appearance in Sutherland Springs on Monday, he responded that it was “unfortunate” that the media was “politicizing” the killings.

“We don’t need politics right now,” Cruz said in a CNN video of his appearance. “In New York, we saw a terror attack with a truck. Evil is evil, and will use the weaponry that is available.”

“You know, it is an unfortunate thing that the immediate place the media goes after any tragedy, after any murder, is politicizing it. We don’t need politics right now. You know, I would note in New York we saw a terror attack just this week with a truck. Evil is evil is evil, and will use the weaponry that is available.”

Donald Trump said on Monday that the church attack wasn’t a “guns situation but a “mental health problem at the highest level.”

Republican Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said the shooting was evidence that more church members should arm themselves for protection. “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

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"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." :blink:

Sounds like a commercial slogan only his vermins would buy. Thankfully the rest of the world has moved on from "the man with the gun" mentality. 

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2 hours ago, Hector said:

:ohgoodgrief:

Kellyanne Conway Says Debating Gun Control Now 'Disrespects The Dead'

Mary Papenfuss

HuffPost, November 6, 2017

White House counselor Kellyanne Conway blasted renewed criticism about politicians’ failure to enact stricter gun controls in the wake of the Texas church shooting, saying it’s “disrespectful to the dead.”

Conway was responding to a question on Fox News’ “Fox & Friends” on Monday about tweets by comedian and TV personality Chelsea Handler in the wake of the Sunday shooting at a Sutherland Springs Baptist church that killed 26 people, half of them children. 

“Innocent people go to church on Sunday to honor their God and ... get shot [and] killed,” Handler tweeted. “What country? America. Why? Republicans.” She also complained that the “government watches these mass shootings and does nothing.”

Conway said she was “sorry that we even have to show her Twitter comments” and called them “so beyond any type of reasonable response that anyone should have.” She complained: “People are taking to Twitter in the comfort of their very luxurious lives, pointing fingers.”

In a dig at Handler and apparently others clamoring for increased gun controls, Conway said that the “rush to judgment, particularly by people who just see politics and Trump derangement in every single thing they do, it doesn’t help the victims, and it’s disrespectful to the dead.” 

Conway said she was “very happy President Trump is our commander in chief and our leader ... because, unfortunately, every president has to help heal the nation at different times, different tragedies.” 

Dismissing gun control concerns as “politicizing” the deadly attack at the Texas church appeared to be a GOP talking point Monday. When Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) was asked by a reporter about gun control during an appearance in Sutherland Springs on Monday, he responded that it was “unfortunate” that the media was “politicizing” the killings.

“We don’t need politics right now,” Cruz said in a CNN video of his appearance. “In New York, we saw a terror attack with a truck. Evil is evil, and will use the weaponry that is available.”

“You know, it is an unfortunate thing that the immediate place the media goes after any tragedy, after any murder, is politicizing it. We don’t need politics right now. You know, I would note in New York we saw a terror attack just this week with a truck. Evil is evil is evil, and will use the weaponry that is available.”

Donald Trump said on Monday that the church attack wasn’t a “guns situation but a “mental health problem at the highest level.”

Republican Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said the shooting was evidence that more church members should arm themselves for protection. “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

So sick of idiots like Cruz sighing and talking of everyone praying etc to come together.  Then saying how great it is that people are paying for the funerals and fixing the church.  Wouldn't it instead be great if this had not happened in the first place. 

When people are instead "celebrating" the compassion of a private citizen using his rifle to kill a man who shot dead 26 people with a gun, like Cruz does in the above clip, what is the point in even asking them about gun control. It is a losing battle.  

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do they really believe what they say ?? I mean, seriously for Christ sake !  

I'd have trouble sleeping at night. 

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Well for once a southern baptist has not blamed the gays.  Usually they are first at hand to blame any catastrophe being gods punishment for them allowing us homosexuals to exist.

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Another mass shooting in America - this time in a Florida school with 17 dead.  It is so predictable, so senseless and so heart breaking.  It is telling too that hearing about mass shootings in the USA is not even shocking anymore but expected.  I suppose politicians will say the usual stuff like sending thoughts and prayers,  it is not the time to talk about gun control etc.  When are they going to wake up to the fact that these mass shootings happen so little in other Western countries and so often in the USA for a reason.  Gun culture will win out again though.  The comments below from a teacher at the school says in all. 

Following the 18th school shooting this year, Falkowski pleaded for change, saying she and her students had become "the latest statistic" in another massacre.

 

"I've seen this on TV, we all have, just shooting after shooting, and the same thing is said, 'It's not time to talk about gun control, it's not the time, it's time to pray for the families,''' she said. "And I just think that hasn't gotten us anywhere.

"As a society, as Americans, we're failing our children, we're not keeping them safe, and Congress is failing us, and the government is failing us, and something has to be done."

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15 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Another mass shooting in America - this time in a Florida school with 17 dead.  It is so predictable, so senseless and so heart breaking.  It is telling too that hearing about mass shootings in the USA is not even shocking anymore but expected.  I suppose politicians will say the usual stuff like sending thoughts and prayers,  it is not the time to talk about gun control etc.  When are they going to wake up to the fact that these mass shootings happen so little in other Western countries and so often in the USA for a reason.  Gun culture will win out again though.  The comments below from a teacher at the school says in all. 

Following the 18th school shooting this year, Falkowski pleaded for change, saying she and her students had become "the latest statistic" in another massacre.

 

"I've seen this on TV, we all have, just shooting after shooting, and the same thing is said, 'It's not time to talk about gun control, it's not the time, it's time to pray for the families,''' she said. "And I just think that hasn't gotten us anywhere.

"As a society, as Americans, we're failing our children, we're not keeping them safe, and Congress is failing us, and the government is failing us, and something has to be done."

 

You want to know what I find terrible?
We all get used to these mass shooting. See? Today, nobody on this forum talked about it. It was just normality. Another one to add to the list. We are insensitive, now, to these massacre. 

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1 minute ago, runa said:

 

You want to know what I find terrible?
We all get used to these mass shooting. See? Today, nobody on this forum talked about it. It was just normality. Another one to add to the list. We are insensitive, now, to these massacre. 

Exactly.  It is mind numbing to think that 17 innocent people can be gunned down in the USA at a school of all places and we are not shocked about it because it happens so often.  I think too it is because nothing ever gets done about it.    That itself is shocking.  They continually talk of terrorism while children are massacred at their schools and they won't even look at gun control.  It is disgusting and shameful. 

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Sad but true.  People have now become desensitized. Another day.  Another mass shooting in America.  

Just as Jazzy said though, that teacher's attitude is part of the problem. It's never the right time to talk about gun control it seems.

Why is it that America is the only (developed) Country  which these mass shootings constantly happen?  It's horrible that these 17 people, many of whom were kids, were killed. How tragic. When is it gonna stop?

The problem is the culture.  America has a serious problem and it's time to do more than just "pray" and send "condolences". A lot of evil and sick people here in America.

Seriously though, what action is being taken? I mean, the NRA is too powerful so don't expect any change in regards to gun control. 

At least beef up security at all schools. Panic buttons, more security and even metal detectors. If that's what it takes then that's what it takes.

Just take some action at least.

 

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5 hours ago, StrawberryBounce12 said:

Sad but true.  People have now become desensitized. Another day.  Another mass shooting in America.  

Just as Jazzy said though, that teacher's attitude is part of the problem. It's never the right time to talk about gun control it seems.

Why is it that America is the only (developed) Country  which these mass shootings constantly happen?  It's horrible that these 17 people, many of whom were kids, were killed. How tragic. When is it gonna stop?

The problem is the culture.  America has a serious problem and it's time to do more than just "pray" and send "condolences". A lot of evil and sick people here in America.

Seriously though, what action is being taken? I mean, the NRA is too powerful so don't expect any change in regards to gun control. 

At least beef up security at all schools. Panic buttons, more security and even metal detectors. If that's what it takes then that's what it takes.

Just take some action at least.

 

I agree. Watching from the outside it's all such a disgrace, and the U.S. were always supposed to be leaders. It has become so pathetic and sad as a country. 

I think you got the teachers statement wrong though. He/she is exactly condemning the phrase 'it's not the right time'. Nothing wrong with the attitude. 

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The day elementary school children were massacred and nothing happened, it was over. Finished. Nothing will change.

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2 hours ago, LSD said:

The day elementary school children were massacred and nothing happened, it was over. Finished. Nothing will change.

This right here.

It's sickening but oh so true. 

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2 hours ago, LSD said:

The day elementary school children were massacred and nothing happened, it was over. Finished. Nothing will change.

 

31 minutes ago, Kurt420 said:

This right here.

It's sickening but oh so true. 

So true.  These comments by Walter Mikac below says it all.  Everyone was horrified and shocked to the core by the Dunblane school shooting where little children were shot dead and it made front page news for weeks.  Port Arthur was the same.  If the guns laws were not going to be changed by Sandy Hook where little children were killed on mass ,  nothing will.   Must be heart wrenching and so frustrating for the American public who desperately want gun reform.  The NRA are possibly the most damaging group of people in the USA who won't even contemplate any changes to gun laws. 

WALTER Mikac first appeared on national television armed only with teddy bears.

His wife, Nanette, and daughters Alannah and Madeline had just been gunned down at Port Arthur on Tasmania's southeast coast.

His loss made as little sense then as it did on Sunday -- the 17th anniversary of the shooting that he and his wider family remembered with a lunch.

Mikac, with a resolve as moving as it was unusual, forged purpose out of madness, a legacy from his grief. It continues to this day in the programs of The Alannah and Madeline Foundation.

Yet Mikac helped drive other meaningful changes, too, such as gun law reforms.

Since Port Arthur, Australia's rate of deaths by guns has dropped 50 per cent. Numbers of homicide are at record lows.

Mikac is rightly proud of the reforms. He is not anti-guns, he argues, but opposed to the spread of weapons that serve no legitimate purpose.

He points to the low incidence of gun deaths in Australia -- and Britain, which tightened controls after the Dunblane school shooting in which 16 school children died.

Now compare those rates to the US, he says.

Mikac is giving a rare media interview to express his shock at political failures in the US to toughen gun laws, despite the primary school massacre in Sandy Hook, Connecticut, in which 20 children and six teachers died in December.

US senators have since rejected legislation that sought to ban high-powered assault rifles and extend background checks.

Mikac poses a simple question: How could they?

If American lawmakers don't pass legislation now, at the height of the numbness, when will they?

"You would think the population would rise up and say 'we're not taking it, we can't keep going down this path'," Mikac says.

Instead, the National Rifle Association launched an aggressive lobbying campaign on Washington. Gun sales across the US soared. There was talk of arming teachers with guns and of bulletproof vests for children to wear to school.

Mikac sees an American society driven by fear, a notion strengthened by the recent lockdown in Boston as police searched for the Marathon bombers.

"The gun violence and the gun culture are embedded in their lives," he says.

"It's almost as though the movies you see in Hollywood are not that fictitious; that this is life on the streets almost anywhere in the States.

"When they say that guns kill, that may be the case.

"But if they had no guns, then guns don't kill.

"You just wonder what it is going to take for them to actually do something about it.

"Or whether they are just going to self-implode at some point of time."

.

 

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On 15/2/2018 at 5:47 PM, runa said:

 

You want to know what I find terrible?
We all get used to these mass shooting. See? Today, nobody on this forum talked about it. It was just normality. Another one to add to the list. We are insensitive, now, to these massacre. 

Yes.  

 

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19 hours ago, LSD said:

The day elementary school children were massacred and nothing happened, it was over. Finished. Nothing will change.

This 

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I wish Trump were taken into Court because his change of laws make him directly responsible of this. People were alerting about the mental state of this boy and yet he was able to get hold of dangerous fire arms. 

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On 2/16/2018 at 2:11 PM, karbatal said:

I wish Trump were taken into Court because his change of laws make him directly responsible of this. People were alerting about the mental state of this boy and yet he was able to get hold of dangerous fire arms. 

I wish Trump would die.

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Do you guys remember when Columbine happened? It felt like the whole world stopped and people didn't stop talking about it for years. Now a mass shooting happens and the next day we're back to normal. It's crazy.

The sad part is that it feels like it's only going to get worse. Gun reform and a ban on assault rifles is a step in the right direction, but technology already exists where people can 3D print their own guns and ammo, circumventing any gun laws anyway. It's only going to get worse as the technology to do it gets cheaper.

 

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Unfortunately the US -alongside pretty much any other western country I have to say- is only focusing on immigration issues. There’s this widespread mentality that all our problems come from immigrants. Gun control laws are not a priority in the US despite the amount of people getting killed daily. If Obama couldn’t do much after the Sandy Hook tragedy rest assured Trump won’t do anything. He got into power thanks to NRA donations and support he’s not going to stand up against those people. Politicians don’t care about us.. all they want is power and money. 

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They should focus on the causes too.  What makes a young boy do this,  why always boys,  why always that age.. Is there an imitation pattern going on,  is the media atention making the situation worse? Do they crave for the atention,  do they feel finally worthy?? Is that psychological situation similar to the one from young terrorists in Europe????  

So many questions.  Gun control is just the tip of the iceberg.  

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I hate that expression " Guns don't kill, people do"  

Guns were invented and designed to kill or injure. What other purpose do people use a gun for ? Also the comparisons with knives, hammers etc. is flawed.  If this sick evil excuse for a human stormed the schools with a knife or hammer he would be tackled and stopped before killing multiple victims.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

I hate that expression " Guns don't kill, people do"  

Guns were invented and designed to kill or injure. What other purpose do people use a gun for ? Also the comparisons with knives, hammers etc. is flawed.  If this sick evil excuse for a human stormed the schools with a knife or hammer he would be tackled and stopped before killing multiple victims.  

 

Agree. 

But banning guns won't be the wholr solution in the USA.  It will be part but there's much more to work at. 

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

They should focus on the causes too.  What makes a young boy do this,  why always boys,  why always that age.. Is there an imitation pattern going on,  is the media atention making the situation worse? Do they crave for the atention,  do they feel finally worthy?? Is that psychological situation similar to the one from young terrorists in Europe????  

So many questions.  Gun control is just the tip of the iceberg.  

Yes and that should be the start to solve this problem. If the US lives in society which glorifies weapons and in the process are so easily available what sort of message does it send to their own kids? People are focusing on the mental issue as if it should be the discussion. Duh! Obviously anyone who all of a sudden decides to go on a killing spree is mentally deranged. 

Lets talk about guns control first. And yes in this case let’s talk about racism, white supremacy, NRA groups. The mental problem should be discussed after we take away the garbage from our society. 

 

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