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Oh. Anyone has the answer, please?

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She's a cunt! See how cocky she is? What Janet didn't know when she uttered her famous 'what I do has class' quote was that her career was about to peak. However never count Madonna out, her career was on the up and up as soon as the Erotica era was over.

Let's check out some facts, forget the 80's. We all know Madonna was the most successful artist of the decade blah blah blah and sold a shit load of albums and singles. Janet and Michael were nipping at her heels the whole time as we know. What I'm really interested in is how both ladies careers panned out after this twat thought she finally had one over on Madonna. 

In 1993 both singers released albums and went on the road. The Girlie Show tour grossed 70 million dollars from 39 dates compared to The Janet tour which grossed 83 million dollars from 123 dates. Madonna sold 360 thousand tickets in Australia and was the first woman to ever headline a stadium tour in OZ until Taylor Swift nearly 20 years later. Janet did an Arena only tour of Australia and sold 150 000 tickets. In the UK Madonna headlined Wembley Stadium for two sold out nights with 72 000 people at each gig. Once again Janet only did arena's with 3 dates at the much smaller Wembley Arena. In Paris Madonna had 3 sell outs compared to Janet's 1. Similarly in New York Madonna sold out 3 nights at Madison Square Garden whilst Janet performed two nights at the much smaller Radio City Music Hall. Finally Madonna had 9 sell outs in Asia compared to Janet's 5. This was all achieved during a Madonna backlash and what  Janet didn't know was her peak.

I'll give it to Janet tho, she sold 14 million units of Janet compared to Erotica's 6 million. Janet also broke the record for highest first week sales in the U.S (350 000 units) but Madonna would break that record 5 years later with Ray of Light (over 377 thousand units).

After The Girlie Show tour, I'll Remember spent 24 weeks on the Billboard chart (peaking at number 2) a record for Madonna that was once again at the height of a Madonna backlash. Things would pick up album wise when Bedtime Stories sold a million more copies than Erotica domestically (3 million units) and a million more copies worldwide (4 million units). The tide was well and truly turning. Take a Bow then spent 7 weeks at number one on the Billboard chart after Secret peaked in the top 5. Madonna set the record for being the woman with the most Billboard number one singles at the time, 11 compared to Janet's 10. Madonna would score a 12th number one in 2000 with Music.

Both ladies released compilations in 1995. Madonna's best of ballads, Something to Remember was a major success and equalled sales of Janet's greatest hits, Design of a Decade compilation. Both sold 10 million units respectively. It has to be pointed out that Janet's greatest hits couldn't come close to Madonna's own greatest hits package The Immaculate Collection which sold 30 million units worldwide and is the top selling compilation album of all time. It also doubled the sales of Janet's brother Michael, a chart force whose greatest hits package HIStory topped 15 million units. Madonna's next offering The Evita soundtrack was again a major success, almost equalling the sales of Janet's next album The Velvet Rope (12 million and 13 million a piece).

Then Madonna truly wiped the floor with Janet when Ray of Light outsold The Velvet Rope a year later with 17 million units sold. Madonna won the first of her 7 Grammy's for ROL compared to Janet's 5. Both ladies then released albums in 2000 and 2001 respectively. Music bested Ray of Light's first week sales on the BB 200 with a number one debut and 420 000 units sold breaking her own record and furthermore she moved over 4 million units of Music in the first 10 days of release and over 12 million in total. The record also debuted at number one in 23 countries worldwide. Janet Jackson's All For you was similarly a big success, it also gave her, her best opening week sales of her career and topped 10 million units in total. Touring wise both women mounted big tours in 2001. The Drowned World Tour equalled the gross of The Velvet Rope tour (but with less dates), both with 77 million apiece. Madonna out grossed the All For You Tour but I'll give credit where credit is due as the All For You Tour (66 million) was cancelled after 9/11, however it has to be pointed out that Madonna finished her remaining dates after the tragedy.

In 2003 Madonna's American Life debuted at number one in the U.S and went platinum, going to number one in 9 countries worldwide. It sold 5 million units, outselling Jackson's Damita Jo (3 million) from 2004. Both albums were considered flops by each respective fan base. Madonna followed up the weak sales of AL with the top grossing tour of 2004, The ReInvention Tour. Both ladies then released albums in 2005 and 2006, Madonna's Confessions debuted at number one in 40 countries, earning her a place in the 2007 Guiness Book of Records for topping the charts in the most countries and sold 10 million units. Madonna's tour of 2006 set the record for the highest grossing tour by a solo artist, Janet chose not to tour. Madonna outsold Janet's offering 20 Y.O (1.2 million units). The album debuted at number 2 in the U.S and went platinum but failed to set the charts alight in the rest of the world. 

In 2008 both ladies released albums once again. Madonna's Hard Candy debuted at number one in the U.S and a total of 37 countries worldwide and sold 4 million copies. It's lead single 4 Minutes topped the charts in 21 countries and became Madonna's 37th top 10 hit, equalling Elvis Presley's total. Her Sticky and Sweet Tour became the highest grossing tour by a solo artist of all time. Madonna was also inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It would become a major coo over Janet who was also eligible for induction at the time. Janet's Discipline album also debuted at number one in the U.S and became one of her least successful albums, selling less than a million units worldwide. The ill fated Rock Witchu Tour was cancelled after just a few dates due to illness. Janet wouldn't release another album proper until 2015 whilst Madonna offered MDNA in 2012 which debuted at number one in the U.S and all her major markets, selling 2 million copies worldwide, becoming the 12th biggest selling album of the year and extended her record of top 10 singles with GMAYL. Finally in 2015 both ladies released albums with Rebel Heart once again outselling Janet's offering Unbreakable with it's sales just shy of 1 million units outdoing Janet's less than 500 000. Both ladies went on tour once again. Madonna once again trounced Janet with the Rebel Heart Tour grossing 170 million dollars. It's hard to report a gross for Janet's tour as once again it was shelved but this time so she could start a family. We do know however that it was a dramatically scaled back tour both staging wise and venue wise. She has recently recommenced the tour under a new name with a much bigger budget but it's probably very safe to say that it won't out gross the Rebel Heart Tour. Lastly Madonna is now considered the top grossing female artist of all time with her tours and Janet is still yet to get that Rock and Roll Hall of fame induction.

Amen

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@Rugbyguy  Truth be told!  :clap:

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1 hour ago, Rugbyguy said:

 

Amen

 

AMEN indeed. Nicely done!! :) :) 

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Good read...

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Rugbyboy fantastic. You should write a book 

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So good I had to share.

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The 97/98 era is interesting - ROL managed to outsell TVR domestically without a tour to support it and without a smash hit #1 single (like TVR had with Together Again). Similarly, Whitney's My Love is Your album from around the same era also outsold TVR despite a less than spectacular debut. 

For some reason, TVR just didn't resonate as strongly with the album-buying audience as the works from the other divas at that time, or compared to Janet's previous albums. 

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16 minutes ago, LikeAPrayer said:

The 97/98 era is interesting - ROL managed to outsell TVR domestically without a tour to support it and without a smash hit #1 single (like TVR had with Together Again). Similarly, Whitney's My Love is Your album from around the same era also outsold TVR despite a less than spectacular debut. 

For some reason, TVR just didn't resonate as strongly with the album-buying audience as the works from the other divas at that time, or compared to Janet's previous albums. 

This topic comes up a lot when discussing TVR. I think the consensus is that this album shocked people because it was a departure of sorts for Janet. They expected bubble-gum, upbeat Janet but got a much darker and more serious Janet. It wasn't until later that this album got the true recognition it deserved.

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Thank you fellas, it took me 3 hours last night to research and type it up. I've still got a sore thumb today from furiously typing away on my IPhone.

I don't generally get all extra in the Pop Princesses forum but I just thought it was important to set the record straight and for any lurking Janet fans who may be reporting back to Janet forums like the Little Mongsters do at Caca Daily.

I also recall in '95 when Jancel was interviewed for our Aussie version of 60 Minutes, her people requested the journalist to mention whilst introducing the segment that 'Janet Jackson is now bigger than Madonna!' I kid you not. That little statement was then repeated for a second time whilst the moron was being interviewed. 

So read my post and weep Jancel fans. The facts are all there in black and white. 

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6 hours ago, ckw25 said:

This topic comes up a lot when discussing TVR. I think the consensus is that this album shocked people because it was a departure of sorts for Janet. They expected bubble-gum, upbeat Janet but got a much darker and more serious Janet. It wasn't until later that this album got the true recognition it deserved.

It can be said that Erotica suffered the same fate also. If Madonna had released a dance/pop album in 1992 I believe she would have easily smashed her previous proper album Like a Prayer's 13 million units sold and she would have equalled Janet's album sales easily. Madonna was still the worlds biggest star in 1992 and easily the world's biggest pop star.

I could never get into TVR. I adored Got Till It's Gone and Go Deep at the time and still do but the rest of the album just sounds too messy to me. It's hard to listen to at some points. Sure I give her props for its subject matter but you don't really know until you actually read the lyrics that she is dealing with some heavy themes because her lyrics can't really be heard amongst all the noise in a lot of the tracks, whereas Madonna's lyrical themes and singing is crystal clear on Erotica and aren't lost amongst samples and distortion. Hindsight is a great thing because not only do many Madonna fans and music critics now consider Erotica to be Madonna's magnum opus but TVR is considered to be Janet's.

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LOL impressive RugbyGuy....I enjoy  good fiction/fantasy readings from time to time. 

Janet surely does get you guys riled up! Not bad for a "hasbeen local" star.

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It's hard to imagine what producers she'd work with and what sort of music it would be. Have Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis done anything good recently?

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19 minutes ago, Gus said:

It's hard to imagine what producers she'd work with and what sort of music it would be. Have Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis done anything good recently?

E faigata ona mafaufau pe o le a le mea o le a ia galue ma pe o le a foi le ituaiga musika o le ai ai. Na faia e Jimmy Jam ma Terry Lewis se mea lelei talu ai nei?

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53 minutes ago, StrawberryBounce12 said:

LOL impressive RugbyGuy....I enjoy  good fiction/fantasy readings from time to time. 

Janet surely does get you guys riled up! Not bad for a "hasbeen local" star.

You forgot slut. She's also a slut.

 

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6 minutes ago, Suedehead said:

You forgot slut. She's also a slut.

 

Slut shaming now are we? I'm sure Madonna wouldnt approve, as she's been called that on more than one occasion.

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4 minutes ago, ckw25 said:

Slut shaming now are we? I'm sure Madonna wouldnt approve, as she's been called that on more than one occasion.

It's not shaming when the slut in question is happy to marry a gay closeted multi-millionare for his money. It's calling a spade what it is: prostitution!! And Janet Jackson is a prostitute. 

 

And don't you dare bring Madonna's noble name into this. Why are you even here on this forum? This is a place for Madonna fans and not Janet's remaining 3 internet gays. Must be sad that you don't even have a Janet forum to hang out in  because she has no fans left ! :rotfl:

 

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2 hours ago, StrawberryBounce12 said:

LOL impressive RugbyGuy....I enjoy  good fiction/fantasy readings from time to time. 

Janet surely does get you guys riled up! Not bad for a "hasbeen local" star.

There is no fiction or fantasy in his analysis. In fact, it shows that M and Janet were neck and neck commercially (at least in the U.S.) in the '90s and early '00s. But Madonna is by far the more successful touring artist and overall has trounced Janet in sales, hits, and touring since 2004.

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2 hours ago, vocalism said:

There is no fiction or fantasy in his analysis. In fact, it shows that M and Janet were neck and neck commercially (at least in the U.S.) in the '90s and early '00s. But Madonna is by far the more successful touring artist and overall has trounced Janet in sales, hits, and touring since 2004.

Thanks Vocalism. I searched many websites to get these facts, including Billboard which is the official source for sales figures and much of my analysis was very fair to Janet and not biased towards Madonna. Unfortunately for Janet fans these figures are accurate and most of the time Madonna was consistently the more successful of the two. 

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I still don't understand why The Velver rope is considered her best album. Janet is her best album. Velvet rope more than any other Janet album is completly destroyed by the interludes, if the lyrics are already about the topics you want to talk about then  interludes are just dragging down your intentions. If you remove the interludes you have a great 90's RnB-downtempo cool album but it's nothing like the RnB album that was released the next year : The miseducation of Lauryn Hill, it does not even have the coolness and authenticity of Baduizm (released in 1997 too). The Velvet rope sounds like a Pespi cola version of both albums. Only the first single could be in the same league as these two milestone albums in american RnB music and albums made by women. Got Till it's gone was really full of promises that the velvet rope did not deliver because the sound is not innovative. TLC had already used that Atlanta sound many times before the Velvet Rope. Together again was house when house was not cool and passé...Next to the Miseducation and Baduizm, The Velvet Rope sounds like a Britney album.

More than anything else i think this is what killed the album and the fact that for the first time she did more promo in Europe than in the US for an album which did nothing for the album. 

Re-listening to the Velvet rope made me think about Sly Stone, Jam & Lewis more than any other producer totally ripped him off. 60% of all Janet songs are based on a Sly Stone sample. And do you know who bought Sly Stone's rights in 1985 ? Michael. So most of Janet's royalties went to Michael and of course Jam&Lewis did not have to fight much to get the permission to use Sly Stone's work. 

Sly stone (of Sly and the family stone for those who don't know) lives now in a trailer and had really bad years. This music genius has been totally ripped off and this time not by white men in suits but by Michael who did nothing for him. Sly Stone had to sell his song rights to pay his legal bills and he always regretted it. 

 

This video really broke my heart because i am a huge Sly Stone fan

 

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20 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

I still don't understand why The Velver rope is considered her best album... 

 

...it's nothing like the RnB album that was released the next year : The miseducation of Lauryn Hill, it does not even have the coolness and authenticity of Baduizm (released in 1997 too). The Velvet rope sounds like a Pespi cola version of both albums. Only the first single could be in the same league as these two milestone albums in american RnB music and albums made by women. Got Till it's gone was really full of promises that the velvet rope did not deliver because the sound is not innovative. TLC had already used that Atlanta sound many times before the Velvet Rope. Together again was house when house was not cool and passé.

 

Next to the Miseducation and Baduizm, The Velvet Rope sounds like a Britney album.

 

You can say that again :clap:

 

As an album, it's FAR from Janet's best... but visually? She had some severe looks during that era:

tumblr_o5hp1iz5CZ1qzjr2jo3_r1_400.gif tumblr_o5hp1iz5CZ1qzjr2jo2_r1_400.gif

 

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