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Jazzy Jan

Australia's postal vote on marriage equality

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4 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Imagine those wonderful drag queens of Priscilla fixing up those stupid women in that advert and the conservative politicians! 

Lighting their tampon and blowing their box apart because that's the only BANG they're ever gonna get ... wouldn't be a bad idea on them

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Its disgusting. I am over the whole "campaign" its bullshit to have a campaing on whether or not we should give people the same rights as everyone else. 

The no campainers who are labled biggots claim they are being bullied because they don't believe in equal rights and people are claiming this bullying to vote yes is making them vote no.

Now the PM has said a no vote would mean no equal marriage rights whilst they are in government. So there is no guarantee a yes vote will even mean equal marriage rights.

Now there are reports of votes being thrown out instead of being posted and there is to be a straight lives matter rally nextto a gay holocaust memorial.

This is just sick and i am over the whole "vote". This country really is a racist bigoted backwards redneck country and i am ashamed to be from here.

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2 minutes ago, Leebf said:

Its disgusting. I am over the whole "campaign" its bullshit to have a campaing on whether or not we should give people the same rights as everyone else. 

The no campainers who are labled biggots claim they are being bullied because they don't believe in equal rights and people are claiming this bullying to vote yes is making them vote no.

Now the PM has said a no vote would mean no equal marriage rights whilst they are in government. So there is no guarantee a yes vote will even mean equal marriage rights.

Now there are reports of votes being thrown out instead of being posted and there is to be a straight lives matter rally nextto a gay holocaust memorial.

This is just sick and i am over the whole "vote". This country really is a racist bigoted backwards redneck country and i am ashamed to be from here.

Leebf, this campaign has disgusted me.  The no campaigners are some of the most hateful people I have witnessed with what they are claiming.   Some of their stunts are appalling and they are forever complaining about being bullied on religious grounds.  I dread to think what the world thinks of Australians due to them. They are making so many false claims and getting too much attention. 

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1 hour ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Leebf, this campaign has disgusted me.  The no campaigners are some of the most hateful people I have witnessed with what they are claiming.   Some of their stunts are appalling and they are forever complaining about being bullied on religious grounds.  I dread to think what the world thinks of Australians due to them. They are making so many false claims and getting too much attention. 

Don't worry Jazzy. The world will think no more different than they did with the USA viaTrump and with the UK via Brexit. France was close with Le Pen and many western countries are now at a crossroad. In Europe far right/ fascist/ Nazi movements are still on the rise;  Australia is just a part of this insane picture. Of course liberals in the world will condemn it if the no vote wins but anybody else will use it as an example to start reforming our laws so gay marriages are illegal.

 The problem I have is that many gay people are actually supporting far right - nationalist parties so I guess if these disgusting movements/political parties can brainwash gay people into believing in hate and division and supremacy then the average person will be easier to be manipulated. 

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Yes it is a horrible voting process and i am over hearing how people don'tget why voting no even for religious grounds is just wrong and hateful. Why should another group of people get to decide how another group of people get to live theor lives.

People keep saying to just rely on defacto relationship for protection but we do not have the same rights and automatic protection should your partner die.

Last year an newlywed English couple had a tragic death whilst on their honeymoon andthe husband had to get his deceased husband's parents to allow him to be next of kin as our law didn't recognise him as next of kin.

This is why equality is needed.

Then you have people who throw away voting forms to try and have thevote go the no way. Just makes me sick plus the straight rally i mentioned at a gay memorial site is just wrong. This is just giving the opportunity to people to be biggots and claim freedom of speech or religious freedom allows them to spew hate.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-19/ssm-surveys-dumped-in-brunswick-garden-raise-security-concerns/8961044?pfmredir=sm

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/gay-marriage/far-right-nationalist-party-for-freedom-to-hold-straight-lives-matter-antisamesex-marriage-rally/news-story/23808028e7150ce7d1bb2e8e1eb148d0

 

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Postal vote on such an important issue seems very strange and weird to me. This is such a curious and ineffective democratic process. 

It has been proved many time that, in a referendum, it depends less on the true balance of public opinion and more on which side has the more energized supporters. If the idea is to let the people decide, the truth is that minority opinions can easily speak louder and get more vote. 

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4 hours ago, Leebf said:

Yes it is a horrible voting process and i am over hearing how people don'tget why voting no even for religious grounds is just wrong and hateful. Why should another group of people get to decide how another group of people get to live theor lives.

People keep saying to just rely on defacto relationship for protection but we do not have the same rights and automatic protection should your partner die.

Last year an newlywed English couple had a tragic death whilst on their honeymoon andthe husband had to get his deceased husband's parents to allow him to be next of kin as our law didn't recognise him as next of kin.

This is why equality is needed.

Then you have people who throw away voting forms to try and have thevote go the no way. Just makes me sick plus the straight rally i mentioned at a gay memorial site is just wrong. This is just giving the opportunity to people to be biggots and claim freedom of speech or religious freedom allows them to spew hate.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-19/ssm-surveys-dumped-in-brunswick-garden-raise-security-concerns/8961044?pfmredir=sm

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/gay-marriage/far-right-nationalist-party-for-freedom-to-hold-straight-lives-matter-antisamesex-marriage-rally/news-story/23808028e7150ce7d1bb2e8e1eb148d0

 

Just like the theocratic, neofascist US...

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This is beyond ridiculous, tired, yet unfortunately quite similar and very possibly an effective pattern of what we've seen before. Very similar vibes here of Prop 8 in CA. :/ Trends ain't looking good. Everyone basically assumed it's CA so 'how' could that garbage pass? Yes, it ALL came down to last minute momentum, right wing groups obsessing 24/7 on it, organization, propaganda to sway/change the GP (people who are indifferent, soft yes voters, or basically supportive but still easily swayed based on a f'king commercial lol)  

For things like this and other social related elections, candidates, votes etc...these far right self loathing shit bags almost always get their bigots out mob style. While the other side is complacent, lazy etc...Just like Brexit, Trump, Prop 8 and now maybe Australia. Sorry, but the worldwide far right 'trend' that started around 2014/15 after serious momentum of progress hasn't come close to dying its well overdue death yet. Beyond obvious there's still some serious backlash to the social changes that happened w.w in 2010-14 or so. Angry, hateful, bigoted white man last stand here. They're going balls out. Beyond flabbergasted in 2017 this shit is happening in Australia of all places! 10 years ago easily would've believed Australia would've had marriage equality before the US! To think if one liberal Supreme Court justice croaks (RBG) very good chance it gets overturned in the US! Couldn't be more clear Aus is like the US to what NZ is to Canada. 

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Let's face it, most of these things end at a supreme court anyway. And I don't remember a ruling in the last years that was not in favor of marriage equality. Sometimes justice is blind or in this case has no sexual orientation. The point is, laws are made to protect the people and before the law all citizens are equal. At least in modern, enlightened societies. The fact that some governments want to limit certain rights to a certain group of people is unlawful as it gets. It has always been but it has never been challenged until two decades now. Most certainly because there were still laws that were much more harmful for gays. If being gay could result in prison time, marriage equality is not on your mind. And it usually needs a supreme court ruling anyway if a government or parliament is hesitant to vote on it out of fear to lose some votes from conservative people. For the simple bureaucratic act that a supreme court ruling is binding for all courts in the land. A ruling there, basically becomes law. And I suppose it will end there in Australia too. The unfortunate thing is that the damage is done and Australias reputation has suffered immensely. I mean, it's kinda surreal. Some time ago when someone would have asked me which countries I consider the most open minded, Australia would have been in my Top 3, next to Canada and The Netherlands.

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20 hours ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Let's face it, most of these things end at a supreme court anyway. And I don't remember a ruling in the last years that was not in favor of marriage equality. Sometimes justice is blind or in this case has no sexual orientation. The point is, laws are made to protect the people and before the law all citizens are equal. At least in modern, enlightened societies. The fact that some governments want to limit certain rights to a certain group of people is unlawful as it gets. It has always been but it has never been challenged until two decades now. Most certainly because there were still laws that were much more harmful for gays. If being gay could result in prison time, marriage equality is not on your mind. And it usually needs a supreme court ruling anyway if a government or parliament is hesitant to vote on it out of fear to lose some votes from conservative people. For the simple bureaucratic act that a supreme court ruling is binding for all courts in the land. A ruling there, basically becomes law. And I suppose it will end there in Australia too. The unfortunate thing is that the damage is done and Australias reputation has suffered immensely. I mean, it's kinda surreal. Some time ago when someone would have asked me which countries I consider the most open minded, Australia would have been in my Top 3, next to Canada and The Netherlands.

Absolutely. New Zealand (which has it since 2013) is another place I would have def added to the top 5 10 years ago. Spain too. Like I said yesterday, beyond perplexed..still that the f'king US (even though they barely squeaked it through) has marriage quality (for now lol) and NOT Australia! Aside from third world countries, Middle East etc..in the modern western world the anti gay right wing mafia machine in the US is the worst and will NOT attempt to end their mission until legal gay marriage is overturned. Of course they'll continue to be a few groups everywhere w.w. else who are against it or are not 'pro' gay marriage but (like Merkel in Germany) majority move on and/or truly don't give a shit. They most def still do in the US

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On 9/20/2017 at 2:47 PM, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Let's face it, most of these things end at a supreme court anyway. And I don't remember a ruling in the last years that was not in favor of marriage equality. Sometimes justice is blind or in this case has no sexual orientation. The point is, laws are made to protect the people and before the law all citizens are equal. At least in modern, enlightened societies. The fact that some governments want to limit certain rights to a certain group of people is unlawful as it gets. It has always been but it has never been challenged until two decades now. Most certainly because there were still laws that were much more harmful for gays. If being gay could result in prison time, marriage equality is not on your mind. And it usually needs a supreme court ruling anyway if a government or parliament is hesitant to vote on it out of fear to lose some votes from conservative people. For the simple bureaucratic act that a supreme court ruling is binding for all courts in the land. A ruling there, basically becomes law. And I suppose it will end there in Australia too. The unfortunate thing is that the damage is done and Australias reputation has suffered immensely. I mean, it's kinda surreal. Some time ago when someone would have asked me which countries I consider the most open minded, Australia would have been in my Top 3, next to Canada and The Netherlands.

From what I understand (the Australians here can correct me if I'm wrong), the Australian Constitution does not have the same Bill of Rights, guarantees of individual freedom and equal protection of the laws as the US Constitution does. Therefore that makes it much more difficult if not impossible to challenge the gay marriage ban in the Supreme Court as was done in the US. If in the US we had to rely on our legislators to approve of gay marriage, we wouldn't have it either! 

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On 9/21/2017 at 8:03 AM, Ciccone's Cheeks said:

Absolutely. New Zealand (which has it since 2013) is another place I would have def added to the top 5 10 years ago. Spain too. Like I said yesterday, beyond perplexed..still that the f'king US (even though they barely squeaked it through) has marriage quality (for now lol) and NOT Australia! Aside from third world countries, Middle East etc..in the modern western world the anti gay right wing mafia machine in the US is the worst and will NOT attempt to end their mission until legal gay marriage is overturned. Of course they'll continue to be a few groups everywhere w.w. else who are against it or are not 'pro' gay marriage but (like Merkel in Germany) majority move on and/or truly don't give a shit. They most def still do in the US

A lot of the Christian theocratic/dominionist right-wing shit is sourced right here in the US. The big-business mega-church machine puts a lot of time and money into farming it overseas (and establishing relationships with conservative politicians as well), particularly to a lot of impoverished nations where fundamentalist Christianity is very successful, but also to riling up the conservative bases in other major countries. Then you see and hear these folks parrot the same talking points/propaganda. It's deliberate.  It's only going to get worse with Murdoch establishing 'Faux' News networks everywhere he can internationally. Then there's the US based issue of extreme media networks like Sinclair Broadcasting Group that are even more to the far-right than Fox buying up all the local media networks to turn local news media into straight up right-wing propaganda outlets. Yep. And it's already underway.

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26 minutes ago, Hector said:

:electropop:

 

why does he look like a closeted gay ? Having children doesn't mean you're not. 

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^ Such an ugly bigoted underbelly of Australia being shown in this postal vote campaign.

 Have seen it everywhere. Online, in the media , from colleagues, and even from friends.  It has been a real eye opener in the worst possible way. 

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12 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

^ Such an ugly bigoted underbelly of Australia being shown in this postal vote campaign.

 Have seen it everywhere. Online, in the media , from colleagues, and even from friends.  It has been a real eye opener in the worst possible way. 

I feel your pain Jan, I feel you... so sorry about this atrocious fuckery :/

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15 hours ago, Hector said:

It's like something from Alabama!

 

I detest this man. He left a recorded message on my mobile phone last night. :banghead: His Conservative party has been cold calling thousands of mobiles, urging people to ring back to discuss things with them. I would rather talk to a noisy goat or angry honking goose for hours than listen to Cory Bernadi's views for one minute.  

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17 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

I detest this man. He left a recorded message on my mobile phone last night. :banghead: His Conservative party has been cold calling thousands of mobiles, urging people to ring back to discuss things with them. I would rather talk to a noisy goat or angry honking goose for hours than listen to Cory Bernadi's views for one minute.  

He could use a good marketing class. He'd learn cold calling people is the worst thing to do. We're not in 1985 anymore. 

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Tomorrow the results of the postal vote on same sex marriage will be announced. I hope that the Yes vote wins easily.  It has been such a vicious campaign run by the vote No bigots. They have thrown every non issue into this and used an anti political correctness movement to jump on board which has nothing to do with marriage equality.  Will feel so ashamed of Australia if the no vote wins. 

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2 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Tomorrow the results of the postal vote on same sex marriage will be announced. I hope that the Yes vote wins easily.  It has been such a vicious campaign run by the vote No bigots. They have thrown every non issue into this and used an anti political correctness movement to jump on board which has nothing to do with marriage equality.  Will feel so ashamed of Australia if the no vote wins. 

I am so glad it is nearly over and am anticipating the results tomorrow. I am hoping the yes vote wins, not only for equality but to show i don't live in a backwards biggotted country!

However Jan the amendment bills that have been suggested are shocking. Allowing discrimination due to religious belief is a joke and will set us back 50 years. Whilst i agree that a church could object to a same sex wedding taking place in their church a celebrant or a business should not refuse to marry a couple or provide services to the wedding based on their religious views. If this is allowed where is the line drawn? Could religions refuse service to other religions? Does that mean a business could refuse service to someone of faith because they don't believe in religion? It would open up a Pandora box.

In any case even if yes wins i do not have faith in the bill being passed so easily. We may need to either reject a bill (if it is full of legal doscrimination) or if it is there is a big fight in parliment it may not be passed until libs are booted. 

This whole thing has been a nightmare and shown how backwards and biggoted we are as a country and how scared religions are of becoming non existant as people no longer have faithor belive in religion. They are trying to remain relevant (like gaga) but no one cares anymore

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2 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Tomorrow the results of the postal vote on same sex marriage will be announced. I hope that the Yes vote wins easily.  It has been such a vicious campaign run by the vote No bigots. They have thrown every non issue into this and used an anti political correctness movement to jump on board which has nothing to do with marriage equality.  Will feel so ashamed of Australia if the no vote wins. 

 

21 minutes ago, Leebf said:

I am so glad it is nearly over and am anticipating the results tomorrow. I am hoping the yes vote wins, not only for equality but to show i don't live in a backwards biggotted country!

However Jan the amendment bills that have been suggested are shocking. Allowing discrimination due to religious belief is a joke and will set us back 50 years. Whilst i agree that a church could object to a same sex wedding taking place in their church a celebrant or a business should not refuse to marry a couple or provide services to the wedding based on their religious views. If this is allowed where is the line drawn? Could religions refuse service to other religions? Does that mean a business could refuse service to someone of faith because they don't believe in religion? It would open up a Pandora box.

In any case even if yes wins i do not have faith in the bill being passed so easily. We may need to either reject a bill (if it is full of legal doscrimination) or if it is there is a big fight in parliment it may not be passed until libs are booted. 

This whole thing has been a nightmare and shown how backwards and biggoted we are as a country and how scared religions are of becoming non existant as people no longer have faithor belive in religion. They are trying to remain relevant (like gaga) but no one cares anymore

Out of nowhere earlier I was wondering when you'd finally find out. Had a feeling it was real soon! So it's just hours away?! Soo rooting for you!! Still CanNOT believe it's Australia dealing with such US centric garbage. Just 5 years ago I DEF would've thought the scenerios would be reversed and for your country this would be beyond old silly news. Best of luck!! And eager to see the results. Even w/ some of the other tedious political BS you were talking about, a win is a WIN even if it's a squeaker. A win esp something this big is ALL about momentum!! sending good luck smooches to you :smooch:along with all the MANY M loving Aussies who are here!! 

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2 hours ago, Leebf said:

I am so glad it is nearly over and am anticipating the results tomorrow. I am hoping the yes vote wins, not only for equality but to show i don't live in a backwards biggotted country!

However Jan the amendment bills that have been suggested are shocking. Allowing discrimination due to religious belief is a joke and will set us back 50 years. Whilst i agree that a church could object to a same sex wedding taking place in their church a celebrant or a business should not refuse to marry a couple or provide services to the wedding based on their religious views. If this is allowed where is the line drawn? Could religions refuse service to other religions? Does that mean a business could refuse service to someone of faith because they don't believe in religion? It would open up a Pandora box.

In any case even if yes wins i do not have faith in the bill being passed so easily. We may need to either reject a bill (if it is full of legal doscrimination) or if it is there is a big fight in parliment it may not be passed until libs are booted. 

This whole thing has been a nightmare and shown how backwards and biggoted we are as a country and how scared religions are of becoming non existant as people no longer have faithor belive in religion. They are trying to remain relevant (like gaga) but no one cares anymore

I know Leebf,  the amendment bills are shocking and shameful. . We really have let the far right conservatives have too much power in parliament.  The moderates in the Libs had to do deals with the conservatives as their hands were tied. They will still be complaining and trying to halt things if the Yes vote wins.  Such an ugly bigoted side of some Australians shown completely and the Murdoch press had not helped. Fairfax papers such as the Age has been on the side of the yes campaign but Murdoch's right wing writers have demonised the Yes campaign continually.  Stuff like feeling sorry for Margaret Court. Just shocking. 

 

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