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Huge fire rips through London tower block

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Just now, Jazzy Jan said:

They should be truthful.  Of course they won't reveal the exact names to the public until they have contacted the victim's families which is always policy.  But they can easily give a death toll.  Who do they think they are fooling ?  Why are they not giving these poor souls the respect and importance that they deserve by giving a death toll ?  I can honestly say I have never seen this happen before with any tragedy.  

this

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On 17/06/2017 at 9:53 AM, pjcowley said:

@XXL I am really sorry about Marco and Gloria's account... heartbreaking...

 

It's so sad indeed

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On 17/06/2017 at 9:42 PM, Rebel Saviour said:

Such a beautiful and lovely couple. What a tragedy!:no:

 

IKR, still cannot believe this has actually happened, cannot make peace with the notion it did happen

She couldn't find work in Italy then providentially found a well paid job in London but she also met her death together with her bf there. Because people who could afford to spend a bit more guaranteeing security by doing so, just didn't bother, on purpose. Destiny can be so cruel and mysteriously blind. It makes me so sad and angry at the same time

And not just angry with those who could have prevented this fire if their greed wasn't standing in the way, but also upset with a country like Italy, one of the richest in the world, yet one that doesn't distribute opportunities based on merit and forces young people to seek their paths far from home

RIP to those two young sweeties and anyone else who has met their deaths in that building

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13 hours ago, Kim said:

No, it's nothing to do with identifying people, It's a simple death toll. In fact the ONLY person they've named so far is one Syrian asylum seeker. Everyone knows the Italian couple mentioned earlier is dead for example, but not according to authorities. They simply don't want to announce that there are possibly hundreds of dead poor people entombed in the middle of London.

 

 

I have read they were renting those flats for £2,000 a month? And no fire extinguisher or emergency exits?

Now also not revealing the true extent of the tragedy or drip feeding the exact number of casualties takes the biscuit of evil indeed

Such a shame

 

 

 

At Least 500+ People Dead in the Grenfell Tower Tragic fire in London 2017. British media have censored the death of hundreds of people who have lost their lives in the Grenfell Tower fire in west London, a local resident has said. 

Press TV UK Interview:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cover-up begins:

Grenfell Tower fire DRAMATISES politics of previous week's general election

 

 

 

 

:scared:  :scared: 

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29 minutes ago, XXL said:

 

IKR, still cannot believe this has actually happened, cannot make peace with the notion it did happen

She couldn't find work in Italy but found a well paid job in London and she also met her death together with her bf. Because people who could afford to spend a bit more guaranteeing security with it, just didn't bother, on purpose. Destiny can be so cruel and mysteriously blind. It makes me so sad and angry at the same time

And not just angry with those who could have prevented this fire if their greed wasn't standing in the way, but also with a country like Italy one of the richest in the world, yet one that doesn't distribute opportunities based on merit and forces young people to seek their paths far from home

 

RIP to those two young sweeties and anyone else who has met their deaths in that building

True.  So incredibly sad.

 Everyone should be angry about what has happened here.  Greed and lack of empathy for others are horrible traits for anyone to have and always have dreadful consequences for innocent people.  There is no excuses for those responsible for this. 

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52 minutes ago, XXL said:

 

I have read they were renting those flats for £2,000 a month? And no fire extinguisher or emergency exits?

Now also not revealing the true extent of the tragedy or drip feeding the exact number of casualties takes the biscuit of evil indeed

 

Well, it's a social housing block first and foremost, but due to the 'right to buy' scheme, some of the homes will have been bought then rented out by private landlords. In both cases, the occupants (if they qualify) will get housing benefit and their rent paid for them. That's 2K a month straight from the government into the pockets of private landlords or paid by the government back to the government. Either way, 2K a month will get you shit all in decent parts of London. This block was filled with immigrants, asylum seekers and the poorest residents of Kensington and Chelsea - where a 3 bedroom house costs about 5 million pounds.

The other appalling thing about this is how the relief effort has been left to and led almost ENTIRELY by volunteers on the ground with a complete absence of  local or national govt presence. The whole thing has been handled terribly.

 

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16 hours ago, XXL said:

also upset with a country like Italy, one of the richest in the world, yet one that doesn't distribute opportunities based on merit and forces young people to seek their paths far from home

Couldn't agree more man, couldn't agree more... I know all too well :(((((

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21 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

True.  So incredibly sad.

 Everyone should be angry about what has happened here.  Greed and lack of empathy for others are horrible traits for anyone to have and always have dreadful consequences for innocent people.  There is no excuses for those responsible for this. 

 

It makes me so upset

Can't get my head around it

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5 hours ago, pjcowley said:

Couldn't agree more man, couldn't agree more... I know all too well :(((((

 

:sadface: 

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20 hours ago, Kim said:

Well, it's a social housing block first and foremost, but due to the 'right to buy' scheme, some of the homes will have been bought then rented out by private landlords. In both cases, the occupants (if they qualify) will get housing benefit and their rent paid for them. That's 2K a month straight from the government into the pockets of private landlords or paid by the government back to the government. Either way, 2K a month will get you shit all in decent parts of London. This block was filled with immigrants, asylum seekers and the poorest residents of Kensington and Chelsea - where a 3 bedroom house costs about 5 million pounds.

The other appalling thing about this is how the relief effort has been left to and led almost ENTIRELY by volunteers on the ground with a complete absence of  local or national govt presence. The whole thing has been handled terribly.

 

 

 

I see, thanks for the explanation

Is that right to buy scheme by any chance the same one introduced by Thatcher 30 years ago?

I think we were talking about this in another thread last year

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20 hours ago, Kim said:

The other appalling thing about this is how the relief effort has been left to and led almost ENTIRELY by volunteers on the ground with a complete absence of  local or national govt presence. The whole thing has been handled terribly.

 

Truly deplorable

Pure madness. It shouldn't happen in a place like London. But they have no problems welcoming all that money from dubious sources. Mafias of all nationalities and huge "fund managers" assets that end up spiking the prices up for the common man more than anybody else

London has truly become a Las Vegas mess, the irony of all of these issues coinciding with the Brexit issues. Last time I was in London someone told me it's not advisable to confront certain individuals who drive recklessly and without respecting speed limits. Because even the police doesn't dare to do anything anymore, they fear them. Drug dealers with special immunities so to speak, not your local type of drug dealer of course, they respond to huge cartels and financial interests

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On 6/19/2017 at 2:58 AM, XXL said:

 

 

I have read they were renting those flats for £2,000 a month? And no fire extinguisher or emergency exits?

Now also not revealing the true extent of the tragedy or drip feeding the exact number of casualties takes the biscuit of evil indeed

Such a shame

 

 

 

At Least 500+ People Dead in the Grenfell Tower Tragic fire in London 2017. British media have censored the death of hundreds of people who have lost their lives in the Grenfell Tower fire in west London, a local resident has said. 

Press TV UK Interview:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cover-up begins:

Grenfell Tower fire DRAMATISES politics of previous week's general election

 

 

 

 

:scared:  :scared: 

The amount of people who who are convinced that the Govt and press are covering up the true death toll of the fire, is bizarre. What the fuck do they think has happened? That Theresa May has gotten ALL media outlets, including those who actively campaign against her, all journalists, from across the political spectrum, all police involved, all fire service, all ambulance staff, all council workers, all funeral directors, all civil servants involved, all politicians and reps in the area, no matter which political party they are a member of - all of them, and all of those peoples' partners and close friends - all of them, have been persuaded by Theresa May to "keep it on the down-low for now, yeah mate?" Think of the sheer number of people who would need to be involved in this supposed conspiracy thousands? Tens of thousands? All types of people, from all walks of life - and you believe they're all covering for Theresa, yeah? Nobody in government thinks this is going to blow over. Nobody in government thinks that announcing the death total next week is any better than announcing today. Victims are announced  with caution & respect, not like guessing how many sweets are in a jar. The families of the deceased have a right to know the correct information, throwing out non-specific or rounded numbers to people just because "it looks that way" is an inhuman idea. Can't we just let professionals do their job, and decide if criticism is due, WHEN it's done? Bloody conspiracy theory nutjobs - stop capitalising on death to feed your paranoia.

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3 hours ago, BrendanT1993 said:

The amount of people who who are convinced that the Govt and press are covering up the true death toll of the fire, is bizarre. What the fuck do they think has happened? That Theresa May has gotten ALL media outlets, including those who actively campaign against her, all journalists, from across the political spectrum, all police involved, all fire service, all ambulance staff, all council workers, all funeral directors, all civil servants involved, all politicians and reps in the area, no matter which political party they are a member of - all of them, and all of those peoples' partners and close friends - all of them, have been persuaded by Theresa May to "keep it on the down-low for now, yeah mate?" Think of the sheer number of people who would need to be involved in this supposed conspiracy thousands? Tens of thousands? All types of people, from all walks of life - and you believe they're all covering for Theresa, yeah? Nobody in government thinks this is going to blow over. Nobody in government thinks that announcing the death total next week is any better than announcing today. Victims are announced  with caution & respect, not like guessing how many sweets are in a jar. The families of the deceased have a right to know the correct information, throwing out non-specific or rounded numbers to people just because "it looks that way" is an inhuman idea. Can't we just let professionals do their job, and decide if criticism is due, WHEN it's done? Bloody conspiracy theory nutjobs - stop capitalising on death to feed your paranoia.

 

:blink:

 

10207_original.gif

 

 

It was merely being suggested that the exact death toll is being hidden or at the very least drip fed to the media. And that once again Theresa May's handling of the situtation or the Tories in general is very questionable/inadequate, that is all. And anyway no need to shout as if you had the ultimate truth in your pocket. Whenever anyone wants to dismiss critical thinking and are prone to accept at face value everything that's presented to them they start using the word conspiracy and paranoia to be dismissive. Get real

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^ yes, thank you @BrendanT1993 I don't understand the outrage for a three figured death toll at the moment. What happened is horrible and we know by how the building burned there must be many many dead. 

I'm much more confused about the fact that a kitchen fire couldn't be controlled and extinguished. I read it started on the third floor. When did the firefighters arrive? Where they so late? I just don't get why they couldn't controll it? Third floor is not so far up...

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14 hours ago, BrendanT1993 said:

 

The amount of people who who are convinced that the Govt and press are covering up the true death toll of the fire, is bizarre. What the fuck do they think has happened? That Theresa May has gotten ALL media outlets, including those who actively campaign against her, all journalists, from across the political spectrum, all police involved, all fire service, all ambulance staff, all council workers, all funeral directors, all civil servants involved, all politicians and reps in the area, no matter which political party they are a member of - all of them, and all of those peoples' partners and close friends - all of them, have been persuaded by Theresa May to "keep it on the down-low for now, yeah mate?" Think of the sheer number of people who would need to be involved in this supposed conspiracy thousands? Tens of thousands? All types of people, from all walks of life - and you believe they're all covering for Theresa, yeah? Nobody in government thinks this is going to blow over. Nobody in government thinks that announcing the death total next week is any better than announcing today. Victims are announced  with caution & respect, not like guessing how many sweets are in a jar. The families of the deceased have a right to know the correct information, throwing out non-specific or rounded numbers to people just because "it looks that way" is an inhuman idea. Can't we just let professionals do their job, and decide if criticism is due, WHEN it's done? Bloody conspiracy theory nutjobs - stop capitalising on death to feed your paranoia.

While I don't think posting those stupid youtube conspiracy videos is in any way helpful here, I've noticed that you tend to just jump into a topic without actually reading what has come before (bad forum etiquette) Journalists and media outlets are doing their job in that they're reporting both what's officially being said AND what friends, family, survivors (strangely absent from the news actually) fire experts and people on the scene have to say. The point is what THEY are saying doesn't tally with what the official line is.

I'LL take what people are saying ON THE GROUND more than any stage managed press conference. Those people have every right to be outraged by some spokesperson saying there's 17 deaths at the same time as more than 17 alone had jumped out windows with their bodies stacked up in a tent while said press conference takes place. They have every right to be angry when names are being reported as dead in foreign countries while the British press are saying nothing. They have every right to be outraged that the "council workers"  "civil servants" "politicians" and "reps" you refer to were completely absent from the scene while the whole relief process was organised by volunteers...  while they traipse from one hospital to the next looking for their relatives and friends

Of course there's collusion between emergency services and the government when it comes to this sort of thing. Of course they want to stagger the death toll to prevent the dissent and anger that was brewing a few days ago from boiling over into full on riots.

And it's things like this that make one thankful for the internet and social media, when the REAL stories behind the crap we see on the "news" can be shared so freely.

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There's no conspiracy. Official numbers of the dead aren't known because simply they're not known. Barely anything is left inside the tower block and they are only guessing right now how many bodies are there. Its going to take time to accurately count the bodies. 

:sadface:

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No one is saying there's a dastardly conspiracy or that we should have official or final figures yet. We were saying (days ago when discussing the numbers) that they seemed way off, and they were. This is a tactic to prevent mass hysteria,

Karbatal, as a reporter himself. explained how he saw the same thing happening during the 7/7 bombings.

Like the fireman that said there were 40 odd bodies found huddled in one room (while they were officially still giving an overall number in the 50s) 

 

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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40389148

Camden flats: Hundreds of homes evacuated over fire risk fears

 

More than 800 homes in tower blocks on a council estate in Camden, north London, have been evacuated because of fire safety concerns. Camden Council says people in five towers on the Chalcots estate are being moved for "urgent fire safety works". The council said it was booking hotels but 80 residents are spending the night on air beds in a leisure centre.

The estate's cladding is similar to Grenfell Tower in west London, where there was a deadly fire this month. Camden Council said it will remove external thermal cladding from five tower blocks on the Chalcots estate. It also said there were concerns about "gas pipe insulation". The council initially announced the evacuation of one tower block, Taplow, but later extended the move to all five tower blocks it had checked.

Residents of the estate attended a public meeting with council officials on Thursday evening. The council leader, Labour's Georgia Gould, said the decision to evacuate the buildings was made at about 18:30 BST on Friday. She said the fire service "told us they could not guarantee our residents' safety in those blocks". Some residents said the first they heard of the evacuation was on the news.

"I know it's difficult, but Grenfell changes everything and I just don't believe we can take any risk with our residents' safety and I have to put them first," Ms Gould said. Camden Council said officials had been knocking on the doors of the towers one at a time for safety reasons - starting at Taplow and followed by Burnham, Bray, Blashford and Dorney. Residents will be allowed in at the weekend to collect more possessions under escort from the fire brigade.

Prime Minister Theresa May tweeted: "My thoughts are with residents being evacuated in Camden while their homes are made safe tonight." She said the government was "offering every support we can" to residents and officials working at the estate.

 

 

 

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A Hotpoint branded fridge freezer caused this tragedy, apparently.

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Well those landlords from the Parliament who allowed the safety law to get less rigorous surely will have to spend some millions now.  

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On 2017-6-24 at 4:15 PM, karbatal said:

Well those landlords from the Parliament who allowed the safety law to get less rigorous surely will have to spend some millions now.  

Well it still needs to be confirmed where the error was. It could be that somebody has signed off the use of the cladding when it should have been rejected. Nobody is yet sure. The cladding could be perfectly legal. Building regulations could be fine. It's all being checked.

They said yesterday they wouldn't be able to confirm the final death toll for months. So awful for friends and family.

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They can.  But they won't.  

About the caddlin.... No building can burn like that because of a fridge with legal materials.  It's impossible.  Small fires happen in tall buildings every day in the world. 

They are lying. 

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9 minutes ago, karbatal said:

They can.  But they won't.  

About the caddlin.... No building can burn like that because of a fridge with legal materials.  It's impossible.  Small fires happen in tall buildings every day in the world. 

They are lying. 

Yes that's suspicious. The fire in that kitchen and flat must have been intense to inflame the cladding of the building. How fast did it spread? When got it noticed? I seriously don't understand what happened there. 

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This is a fire in a hotel in my city in the late 70s. I guess around 70 or 80 people died. The fire started in the basement: 

Resultado de imagen de hotel corona incendio

 

It spread: 

Resultado de imagen de hotel corona incendio

Lots of people died, mostly because of the smoke. But the burning was serious in lots of floors 

This was the result 

Resultado de imagen de hotel corona incendio

 

Now let's remember another building that burned like a torch. This time it was Madrid, I guess around 10 years ago. The Windsor Hotel. Even though the investigation (hahahaha) concluded that it was caused by some electricity fail, popular opinion is that it was burned intentionally. Reason? Buildings don't burn like that! 

 

Resultado de imagen de windsor incendio provocado

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Lolo said:

Yes that's suspicious. The fire in that kitchen and flat must have been intense to inflame the cladding of the building. How fast did it spread? When got it noticed? I seriously don't understand what happened there. 

It was a series of errors. The window was open and the flames got out setting fire to the cladding.

The cladding is perfectly legal in some circumstances like insulating tanks. It may not be legal in this case but it's not known.

People were told to stay in their flats as the flats are individual concrete blocks and are supposedly fire proof . People were in them for three hours before some decided to escape whilst the fire took hold as they were told to stay there by the fire brigade. 

No conspiracies. Just very unfortunate set of circumstances 

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I went into London last night and had to drive right past it. I was shocked as it was so close. It's just this black burnt out shell now.

I know someone who's involved with the investigation - number of deaths will probably reach 93 max - still a terrible number. No more despite all the gossip you might read.

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