Jump to content
MadonnaNation.com Forums
Sign in to follow this  
XXL

BREXIT / British Politics thread - cont

Recommended Posts

On 2/25/2019 at 7:20 AM, karbatal said:

Omg :rotfl:

Are you the writer? It reminds me to your posts in the Kylie thread.

:smile: No, but some of the put downs are perfect. From now on I may well refer to Kelly as The Unperson of Pop. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So is it true and the UK are crashing out of the EU without any deal or did I read that wrong today? Fake news? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2019 at 5:01 PM, Cyber-Raga said:

So is it true and the UK are crashing out of the EU without any deal or did I read that wrong today? Fake news? 

It seems like it.

It is probably too late now to have a deal. The EU washed its hands and Britain is now facing the hard reality of leaving without a deal plunging the goverment and its citizens to chaos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Nessie said:

It seems like it.

It is probably too late now to have a deal. The EU washed its hands and Britain is now facing the hard reality of leaving without a deal plunging the goverment and its citizens to chaos.

To be honest the EU did not wash its hands. Any kind of independence from an entity is a bureaucratic nightmare. The EU didn't start this and has been opened to every kind of deal. Problem is that if you want to be part of the common market you have to allow the freedom of movement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going on the march in London on Saturday. I think it could be massive.

It's amazing just what a negative affect this is having on people here. The uncertainty is really getting people down.

People wondering how long both May and Corbyn will last.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The extension to June 30th includes the European elections and if we are included in these in May it will be of enourmous embaresment.

I know the prime minister doesn't want the UK involved in the up and coming elections but on paper we will still be for all purposes part of the EU.

I just hope we don't have to be involved in these it will be a waste of time and effort all round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Confessit said:

The extension to June 30th includes the European elections and if we are included in these in May it will be of enourmous embaresment.

I know the prime minister doesn't want the UK involved in the up and coming elections but on paper we will still be for all purposes part of the EU.

I just hope we don't have to be involved in these it will be a waste of time and effort all round.

Extension offered is upto May now, day before the elections.

Interesting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow those marches against Brexit have been MASSIVE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brexit is just shit. I'm sick to death of it and I'm sick to death of our politicians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I marched on the Peoples March yesterday and the crowds were insane. We the British people deserve a say on the final deal (or lack of a deal). Many voted Brexit based on the lies of what could be deliver and have now realized what Brexit actually means for the UK. The referendum result was close not a unanimous and tide has definitely changed. 

55736616_10216150796175889_6532900494237499392_n.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, give-it-2me said:

I marched on the Peoples March yesterday and the crowds were insane. We the British people deserve a say on the final deal (or lack of a deal). Many voted Brexit based on the lies of what could be deliver and have now realized what Brexit actually means for the UK. The referendum result was close not a unanimous and tide has definitely changed. 

55736616_10216150796175889_6532900494237499392_n.jpg

I wish the best for the UK but to be honest after 40 years of moaning about their EU and trying to stop every kind of integration (Maastricht, euro, Nice,  Schengen) AND the costs of this mess (changing locations of Agencies and relocating people, creating committees and paying for theme) I think it would be healthier for thee UK to leave. 

If the British people want in the future to be part of the EU again, they can always apply AND ACCEPT all the conditions just like any other new member: no opt out for the Euro or Schengen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think EU is very patient and they should pull off the plug. This is ludicrous. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indicative votes today. Personally I am not convinced that all the enthusiasm in the press about the UK parliament taking back control from May is warranted. If parliament had decided two years ago what sort of Brexit they wanted, before instead of after the negotiations with the EU, that would have been very good, but isn’t it a bit late for that now? The EU has zero interest in negotiating again. 

Also, many of the things I’ve heard mentioned are trying to answer questions that are not relevant right now. Like questions about customs union or Norway+ - aren’t that all things that can still be negotiated during the transition phase of Mays withdrawal agreement? After all, that document is explicitly not the final word on EU/UK relations, but instead provides the framework for negotiating the future relationship. 

I guess these votes could be useful if they came to some way to sign the withdrawal agreement, like “sign current agreement and then tell the government to aim for whatever that Norway+ thing is during the negotiating phase”.

TBH, I feel a bit like I'm in the middle now. On the one hand, I firmly stand by why I voted Leave in the first place - the thought that our laws should be made in this country and the dislike of our right wing of constantly meandering between "we love the EU" and "we hate the EU telling us what to do" and quite honestly I was not okay with the whole scaremongering tactics used by both campaigns (I certainly didn't buy into the Leave campaign's whatever amount it was on the side of that bus or Boris Johnson and Micheal Gove's insistences). On the other hand, perhaps venturing towards an industry career has changed my perspective a bit: I certainly never thought immigration was a bad thing, never wanted them to close the borders, and I do want us to have a relationship with the EU. There's also the fact that the industry I want to get into does actually benefit from the EU. I wouldn't say I'd vote 'Remain' now, but I think I'm somewhere in the middle where I can see both sides of the argument.

Regardless, there's no doubt that the whole thing has been botched from start to finish, though. It's quite clear now that Parliament never wanted this in the first place, and thus did not plan for any eventuality other than a Remain vote. I am highly exhasperated at our country for that, since it seems prudent to any sane person to plan for all outcomes, not just insist that things will go your way. And our Government has blown every opportunity to do so. Heck, I think that had they done what they were supposed to do in the first place, some of the damage of a 'No Deal' scenario could have been negated. Instead they failed to learn anything from the referendum about expecting things to just go their way. It's again a case of not planning for any eventuality other than the one they want. I definitely think May's deal isn't a good deal on our end. Is it better than the alternative? I have no idea, because there's just too much noise. Who am I to believe? They're all out for their own ends. But as it stands, I'm definitely certain that, because of a lack of preparation on our end, no deal would turn out far worse than if they had prepared for all eventualities in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2019 at 12:08 PM, give-it-2me said:

I marched on the Peoples March yesterday and the crowds were insane. We the British people deserve a say on the final deal (or lack of a deal). Many voted Brexit based on the lies of what could be deliver and have now realized what Brexit actually means for the UK. The referendum result was close not a unanimous and tide has definitely changed. 

55736616_10216150796175889_6532900494237499392_n.jpg

the leavers 😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess there will be no deal and things will be messy at first and then afterwards there will be some good deals from the UK with other countries, incluiding the EU and life will go on. The Netherlands will be even richer because they're profiting from ALL the good things that the UK had in the EU, including important agencies, and Ireland will be clapping and laughing as the only English-speaking country in the EU right now. 

The UK will keep most part of the economy, as it is based in fiscal paradises everywhere from old colonies, but the regular people will suffer from a lack of protection and will depend entirely in the protection that grants the UK Government. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's talk that May is about to call an election to break the impasse. Yeah, that worked so well for her the last time, didn't it? TBH, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she's secretly hoping to lose so she doesn't have to deal with it any more.

She can't convince her coalition and not even all of her own party to follow her on the key issue of the day. That means she's clearly lost the ability to govern. It certainly is a bit weird that her coalition voted against the no-confidence motion even though they have obviously no confidence in her anymore. But from a practical point of view, this stuff is exactly why governments are allowed to break up and have new elections in most democracies around the world.

Whether new elections would help is a completely different question, of course. But it's something you don't know without trying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LSD said:

 

I love Jon Snow's style. 

What an elegant way to explain that Brexit is mostly based on xenophobia and racism. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this what you voted Brexit for? (you know who you are)

Anyway, the far right takeover of the Tory party is quite a thing to behold. Dominic Grieve, that rare breed of Tory who's actually talked a bit of sense on Brexit is now facing deselection after losing a vote of confidence from his local constituency that's been infiltrated by UKIP turned Tory members. So he could lose his seat to be replaced by a far right nutter. But then Theresa May inviting ex UKIP members into her party was always going to lead to this, just as David Cameron's capitulation to UKIP and the far right of his own party led to Brexit in the first place.

England needs to act NOW to avoid what's still a minority (but largely growing) far right element taking over their country. The media, especially the BBC, is complicit (it's no coincidence that the giant march last week got perfunctory coverage yet the smaller rabble yesterday got 24hr rolling on BBC News) and every jingoistic front page of the main newspapers showing a complete disconnect with how badly the tide is turning.

So on the second round of indicative voting on Monday, the parties will need to work together to come up with an alernative to May's deal that actually passes the vote. If not, she'll bring her shit deal back for the FOURTH time with the very real threat of crashing out with no deal as the default. The time for party political game playing needs to END. It's either single market/customs union membership (and yes that means freedom of movement etc remains) REVOKE article 50 altogether or put it back to the people with a referendum on May's deal vs remain.

May, who already attempted to whip up a frenzy by turning people against parliament in her Trumpian speech last week, has already said she's going, and the list of flip-flopping  incumbent PMs reads like a horror story. Not one moderate among them.

Labour of course remain risible and ineffective as the official opposition with doddery Brexiteer Grandpa at the helm. I'll leave it to the only sane and functioning leader of a UK party to say it how it is about the most inept prime minister of all time AGAIN -

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is so incredibly difficult to understand a country far away and not being from there and not living there. I had this vision of the UK being an example on social protection, freedom and tolerance. I hope that is not lost and this is only a bad moment. 

By the way, @Kim, there is a promotional campaign from the Scottish Government , it seems. Very big one, because I have seen advertisements in my Facebook feed and Twitter feed. It is in Spanish (I guess it is in a variety of languages) with the title "Scotland welcomes the EU". 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, karbatal said:

It is so incredibly difficult to understand a country far away and not being from there and not living there. I had this vision of the UK being an example on social protection, freedom and tolerance. I hope that is not lost and this is only a bad moment. 

By the way, @Kim, there is a promotional campaign from the Scottish Government , it seems. Very big one, because I have seen advertisements in my Facebook feed and Twitter feed. It is in Spanish (I guess it is in a variety of languages) with the title "Scotland welcomes the EU". 

 

It's such a complicated issue, but really it's just a reflection of how quickly things can change, and how the same thing has happened in so many places.

20 years ago it was 'Cool Britannia'. Thatcher was gone, the ineffectual John Major had limped away, and it was a new dawn with "New" Labour and Tony Blair (in reality bank deregulation and everyone on easy credit and the country living above its means) Cue an illegal war and then the financial crash. Britain (England actually) then returns to the arms of the Tories whose answer is severe austerity via public services cuts and towards the poor and disabled (make no mistake that Tory policies are actively and deliberately killing off its poorest citizens via social engineering) As is the Tory way, while the poorest are punished, the rich get richer via tax cuts. This is when the likes of UKIP pop up to tell everyone that the problem isn't their own government, it's all those immigrants, it's the EU. Right wing thinking starts to become more normalized and verbalized in public discourse and the ERG (anti European) wing of the Tory party becomes more emboldened. David Cameron has the brainwave to kill off the EU dissenters for good by having a referendum on the matter that he'll surely win...

The Leave side runs an effective (and it turns out wholly illegal) campaign funded by tax exiles, hedge funders and billionaires and manages to fool people into thinking that their shit lives will become better outside the EU. Hence the poorest communities in Northern England, Wales, the Midlands etc are the ones who usher it in enthusiastically.

The most bungling, ineffective and embarrassing govt EVER, led by a newly elected PM cleverly disguised as a malfunctioning robot then sets into motion the exit mechanism without knowing what the fuck it wants or what the fuck it's doing. Said robot had promised to help the "just about managing" and the middle class, but has pushed every aspect of normal governance aside in it's dogged pursuit of Brexit. Through all this, Labour suffers an identity crisis and split within its own party with its grass roots members voting in Jeremy Corbyn, a socialist and committed anti-EU campaigner who suddenly finds himself forced to kinda...sorta... temper his views, but not really. Half the country then finds itself without any sort of political representation whatsoever.  And here we are...

Scotland meanwhile stayed to the centre-left with the SNP, which through good governance mitigates most of the austerity facing the rest of the UK and sets down it's own path of progressive policies, internationalism (civic nationalism) and openness as typified by the campaign your talking about where we encourage migration and being part of the (flawed but better than nothing) European Union. It's certainly my hope that the final cords that bind it to the rest of the UK are severed soon before the rot starts to creep up here. Make no mistake that the same crowd of fascist bigots who ushered in Brexit will do their very best to stop it though.

Couldn't be prouder to live somewhere that's sending out the message you saw on facebook. This one I think...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know I am not for separatism, because I am for being more integrated into an effective, transparent and really socially constructed Europe (I know it a bit utopian). But in this case I really hope Scotland is able to remain in the EU as an independent country. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, karbatal said:

You know I am not for separatism, because I am for being more integrated into an effective, transparent and really socially constructed Europe (I know it a bit utopian). But in this case I really hope Scotland is able to remain in the EU as an independent country. 

The great deceit of Brexit is fooling people into thinking that they aren't "independent". It's quite clever really. 

As we know, the EU is made up of a group of independent countries. The UK, which when constructed was meant to be a political union between two equal countries, has proven itself not to be. One partner is now preventing the other, simply because of numbers, following its own path (we'll leave aside other stuff like the plundering of that smaller country's vast wealth and natural resources)

The best comparison is how the Republic of Ireland has been treated within the EU (with respect and as an equal partner and with it's interests protected) with the way Scotland has been treated as part of the UK (it's interests ignored, it's government told to shut up and an economically disastrous policy forced upon it)

So 'separatism' (a tired and hyperbolic word) is the way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...