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You have to start wondering if the UK is on a WAR footing... They have a minister for rationing, stockpiling food and medicines as well as putting the military on amber alert? I dare the army to be put on the streets of Northern Ireland. It went really well for them last time.

This is all happening because of a pack of lies told to the public. Helped by the media of course. If it hadn't been for Cambridge Analytica and their social media manipulation and the Daily Mail,The Express and The BBC promotiing Farage and UKIP nonstop we could have woken up on June 23rd 2016 and it would have just been another day and we could have all just got on with our lives.

Imagine history lessons in the future.. Well children there was a man called David Cameron and he had a little problem so he asked the people what to do. And that was how the Brexit civil war started..

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^ but also the UK has been moaning about the UK since they got in. They've been a pain in the arse, blocking lots of possibilities and always making clear their opt out clauses. Recently they've been blatantly being obnoxious to new members like Bulgaria and Romania.  Part of the EU is relieved now. The weird uncle is finally gone from home. 

If there's a new referendum the moaning will continue. 

Maybe it's better they go and if they ever get in again they have to accept the euro, Schengen and there's no opt out about anything. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/18/2018 at 5:01 PM, karbatal said:

British people should look carefully what's happening in Hungary, where Orban is trying to change labor laws and not pay extra hours due to lack of workers in the country. Lack of workers because he stopped immigration. 

Hello? 

"British" ?

national.jpg

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7 minutes ago, karbatal said:

I'm sorry I always confuse the word British :lol: What word can I use then?  Because it is not only the English!!!!! 

 

Not ALL the English obviously, but yes, the English - many of whom are politically homeless because they only have the real choice of Tory or Labour who are two sides of the same coin when it comes to immigration and Brexit. The English who consistently vote in a Tory government for the whole UK to suffer under no matter how cruel, how inhumane, how devastating their policies. The English, who polls show would STILL vote Tory and still vote Brexit today.

One only has to look at the shameful and hideous rolling media coverage the last week or so of the immigrant "crisis" in England (12 people caught in a boat *rolleyes*) The term Broken Britain has never been more apt right now.

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9 minutes ago, Kim said:

Not ALL the English obviously, but yes, the English - many of whom are politically homeless because they only have the real choice of Tory or Labour who are two sides of the same coin when it comes to immigration and Brexit. The English who consistently vote in a Tory government for the whole UK to suffer under no matter how cruel, how inhumane, how devastating their policies. The English, who polls show would STILL vote Tory and still vote Brexit today.

One only has to look at the shameful and hideous rolling media coverage the last week or so of the immigrant "crisis" in England (12 people caught in a boat *rolleyes*) The term Broken Britain has never been more apt right now.

I am appalled at the boat crisis. How can politicians and the BBC be such scaremongers???? Instead of being worried that so many people can DIE crossing the Channel, they are picturing it as it hordes of people were assaulting the UK!!!! In Spain we had in 2018 a record number of migrants coming with boats:43 .000 people!  152 boats EVERY DAY! Can you imagine 43.000 people got into the UK by illegal boats???? 

Sadly, in Spain we're having a new far right party and some media are licking their ass. Very soon the open mind society in Spain will change. I am very worried. 

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24 minutes ago, karbatal said:

I am appalled at the boat crisis. How can politicians and the BBC be such scaremongers???? Instead of being worried that so many people can DIE crossing the Channel, they are picturing it as it hordes of people were assaulting the UK!!!! In Spain we had in 2018 a record number of migrants coming with boats:43 .000 people!  152 boats EVERY DAY! Can you imagine 43.000 people got into the UK by illegal boats???? 

Sadly, in Spain we're having a new far right party and some media are licking their ass. Very soon the open mind society in Spain will change. I am very worried. 

Scary times for Spain!

The manufactured "crisis" was just jingoistic British nationalist bile.More and more people are seeing through the BBC's increasingly dangerous right wing agenda. They've even got Steve Bannon (and we've seen his recent influence on what's going on in Brazil) on payroll under the bullshit excuse of him being an "anti-elite voice". With the one "British" politician showing any moral backbone yet again being...

 

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6 minutes ago, Kim said:

Scary times for Spain!

The manufactured "crisis" was just jingoistic British nationalist bile.More and more people are seeing through the BBC's increasingly dangerous right wing agenda. They've even got Steve Bannon (and we've seen his recent influence on what's going on in Brazil) on payroll under the bullshit excuse of him being an "anti-elite voice". With the one "British" politician showing any moral backbone yet again being...

 

This woman should have been the UK prime minister. She is the only politician across the channel who makes sense. Actually I d like to see her ruling the EU.

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26 minutes ago, elijah said:

This woman should have been the UK prime minister. She is the only politician across the channel who makes sense. Actually I d like to see her ruling the EU.

Well her goal is an independent Scotland within the EU and that suits me fine, but as an example of how fucked the rest of the UK is, Labour consistently rule out working with her ( SNP, left of centre, progressive, inclusive) yet have recently indicated they'd be open to working with the DUP (right wing, climate change denying, anti gay, anti abortion) because that's where the tide is turning politically down there - and this ongoing Brexit madness is just gonna make it a million times worse.

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1 minute ago, Kim said:

Well her goal is an independent Scotland within the EU and that suits me fine, but as an example of how fucked the rest of the UK is, Labour consistently rule out working with her ( SNP, left of centre, progressive, inclusive) yet have recently indicated they'd be open to working with the DUP (right wing, climate change denying, anti gay, anti abortion) because that's where the tide is turning politically down there - and this ongoing Brexit madness is just gonna make it a million times worse.

Well, if Brexit happens (still hope it is somehow stopped) and Scotland becomes independent I m sure it would be a matters of months till its in EU again. Actually if not a lot is changed as far as legislation goes, it would probably became a member immediately.  And a head of the EU commission like Nicola would be a huge win for Europe. 

As for Labour wanting to work with the Irish alt right: seems like the whole spectrum in England has gone to the dark alt right. Even the so called left. One has to wonder if we are witnessing the collapse of the political right-left divide coupled with the normalisation of the alt right. Dark days ahead. From USA to UK to Brazil to Germany to Bulgaria to Hungary/Poland/Romania.

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14 minutes ago, elijah said:

Well, if Brexit happens (still hope it is somehow stopped) and Scotland becomes independent I m sure it would be a matters of months till its in EU again. Actually if not a lot is changed as far as legislation goes, it would probably became a member immediately.  And a head of the EU commission like Nicola would be a huge win for Europe. 

Well even if Brexit doesn't happen that doesn't change the political and socio-economic gulf that exists between both countries. I also still remember all the scaremongering and misinformation surrounding the last independence debate and the dark British state is gonna be even more vociferous in it's machinations next time around, especially after Brexit exposes the fact that outwith the city of London, England has been asset and resource stripped for decades.  

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3 hours ago, Kim said:

Well her goal is an independent Scotland within the EU and that suits me fine, but as an example of how fucked the rest of the UK is, Labour consistently rule out working with her ( SNP, left of centre, progressive, inclusive) yet have recently indicated they'd be open to working with the DUP (right wing, climate change denying, anti gay, anti abortion) because that's where the tide is turning politically down there - and this ongoing Brexit madness is just gonna make it a million times worse.

The Labour party has truly lost it's way completely in England.  Not wanting to work with Nicola Sturgeon (  whose party actually embraces the qualities and ideology that they are supposed to represent )  but wanting to work with a right wing party is just incomprehensible to me.  

Labour and the parties similar worldwide - ie the ones running against conservatives, -  need to regain the spirit and ideology of what they once had.  Now too often,  the alternatives to right wing parties are just instead Conservative Lite.   As more and more countries and governments become more right wing and influenced by corporations and corrupt media,  the time is definitely not right to go softly softly.,  I love Nicola Sturgeon so much as she does not take a backwards step,  is both forthright and compassionate and does not change her ideology or views .  I suspect the conservative press will try to tear her down but she has clear principles that she sticks too. 

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11 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

The Labour party has truly lost it's way completely in England.  Not wanting to work with Nicola Sturgeon (  whose party actually embraces the qualities and ideology that they are supposed to represent )  but wanting to work with a right wing party is just incomprehensible to me.  

Labour and the parties similar worldwide - ie the ones running against conservatives, -  need to regain the spirit and ideology of what they once had.  Now too often,  the alternatives to right wing parties are just instead Conservative Lite.   As more and more countries and governments become more right wing and influenced by corporations and corrupt media,  the time is definitely not right to go softly softly.,  I love Nicola Sturgeon so much as she does not take a backwards step,  is both forthright and compassionate and does not change her ideology or views .  I suspect the conservative press will try to tear her down but she has clear principles that she sticks too. 

Labour can't get past their "Unionist" stance when it comes to Scotland. It's too entrenched in them which is why they're more or less dead as a political force here. The press already holds up Sturgeon (who's seen as a hugely impressive progressive politician overseas) and the SNP as something to be feared and reviled simply because they're afraid of breaking up their precious union of the UK. The media are entirely complicit in this. Whereas a vile unionist party like the DUP gets courted and is currently in receipt of a billion pound bribe to keep the Tories afloat in Westminster. It's rotten to the core and the sooner we're shot of it all the better.

 

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I have a serious question though. How likely will Brexit happen this March? I mean nothing has been greenlit in Westminster and if alterations need be done, the EU won't really give in back time because they can't risk loosing the next country to leave. And even if they did, it will never pass the EU Parliament before the end of March. From where I am seeing it, the UK will crash out of the EU in just under three months and this is even for hardcore Tories an insane thing to look forward to, isn't it?

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22 minutes ago, Cyber-Raga said:

I have a serious question though. How likely will Brexit happen this March? I mean nothing has been greenlit in Westminster and if alterations need be done, the EU won't really give in back time because they can't risk loosing the next country to leave. And even if they did, it will never pass the EU Parliament before the end of March. From where I am seeing it, the UK will crash out of the EU in just under three months and this is even for hardcore Tories an insane thing to look forward to, isn't it?

Well May puts her crappy deal to parliament later this month. She'll present it as her deal or no deal. It probably won't pass. Labour might then draw up a vote of no confidence in the govt which they (Labour) will probably lose unless they get the DUP on side (unlikely as they're currently in receipt of a Tory bribe and see Corbyn (who inexplicably supports Irish reunification but opposes Scottish independence) as a threat to their existence).

May then negotiates an extension to Article 50 with Europe and goes back to negotiate a slightly better deal by changing her own red lines on free movement. Tories go apeshit. Labour, SNP and some rebel Tories push Corbyn (whose a rabid Brexiteer but won't admit it) to support a second referendum. May, trapped in a corner like the rabid unhinged dog she is, concedes. Mad Brexiteers threaten to riot but don't. There's a second referendum campaign even more divisive and awful than the first. We then wait for the result and wake up to find Bobby in the shower and realise it was all a bad dream, or we press the repeat button and go through it all again.

Yes there's a significant proportion of people who think a no deal would be just great and who discount every single piece of evidence to the contrary.  Rule Britannia etc.

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10 minutes ago, Kim said:

We then wait for the result and wake up to find Bobby in the shower and realise it was all a bad dream, or we press the repeat button and go through it all again.

Yes there's a significant proportion of people who think a no deal would be just great and who discount every single piece of evidence to the contrary.  Rule Britannia etc.

I love the Dallas allusion.

On a more grim note: I read a tweet by JK Rowling saying that only greedy capitalists who seek to become even more filthy rich in the chaos thanks to a no-deal Brexit seems rather likely to be true considering what you have just outlined. Scary times. 

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6 minutes ago, Cyber-Raga said:

I love the Dallas allusion.

On a more grim note: I read a tweet by JK Rowling saying that only greedy capitalists who seek to become even more filthy rich in the chaos thanks to a no-deal Brexit seems rather likely to be true considering what you have just outlined. Scary times. 

Well JK Rowling's an obnoxious faux-left Blairite, but on this subject she's correct.

Those pushing hard for Brexit (Jacob Reese Mogg, Boris Johnson etc) have already moved their money to Europe and advised their clients to do the same (they're all hedge fund managers and the like) while pushing this "will of the people" crap to the very same poor idiots who are going to be hit the very hardest by the economic hardships of Brexit. Good luck getting the media or anyone else to question them on it though.

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

Well May puts her crappy deal to parliament later this month. She'll present it as her deal or no deal. It probably won't pass. Labour might then draw up a vote of no confidence in the govt which they (Labour) will probably lose unless they get the DUP on side (unlikely as they're currently in receipt of a Tory bribe and see Corbyn (who inexplicably supports Irish reunification but opposes Scottish independence) as a threat to their existence).

May then negotiates an extension to Article 50 with Europe and goes back to negotiate a slightly better deal by changing her own red lines on free movement. Tories go apeshit. Labour, SNP and some rebel Tories push Corbyn (whose a rabid Brexiteer but won't admit it) to support a second referendum. May, trapped in a corner like the rabid unhinged dog she is, concedes. Mad Brexiteers threaten to riot but don't. There's a second referendum campaign even more divisive and awful than the first. We then wait for the result and wake up to find Bobby in the shower and realise it was all a bad dream, or we press the repeat button and go through it all again.

Yes there's a significant proportion of people who think a no deal would be just great and who discount every single piece of evidence to the contrary.  Rule Britannia etc.

:lmao:  at Bobby in the shower.  

What a mess though.  A complete shambolic mess.  

Do you think there will be another referendum ?  Also,  do you think the result will be different this time.  There is so much confusion and fighting amongst Brexiters themselves so how can they even agree on what type of Brexit they want.  

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4 hours ago, Kim said:

Well May puts her crappy deal to parliament later this month. She'll present it as her deal or no deal. It probably won't pass. Labour might then draw up a vote of no confidence in the govt which they (Labour) will probably lose unless they get the DUP on side (unlikely as they're currently in receipt of a Tory bribe and see Corbyn (who inexplicably supports Irish reunification but opposes Scottish independence) as a threat to their existence).

May then negotiates an extension to Article 50 with Europe and goes back to negotiate a slightly better deal by changing her own red lines on free movement. Tories go apeshit. Labour, SNP and some rebel Tories push Corbyn (whose a rabid Brexiteer but won't admit it) to support a second referendum. May, trapped in a corner like the rabid unhinged dog she is, concedes. Mad Brexiteers threaten to riot but don't. There's a second referendum campaign even more divisive and awful than the first. We then wait for the result and wake up to find Bobby in the shower and realise it was all a bad dream, or we press the repeat button and go through it all again.

Yes there's a significant proportion of people who think a no deal would be just great and who discount every single piece of evidence to the contrary.  Rule Britannia etc.

That’s interesting and seems like it’s where uk is headed. But I always wondered why the uk parliament wouldn’t allow a referendum on 3 options: 1) stay in eu 2) mays agreement 3) leaving eu without any agreement. And one of the 3 options who gets the most votes is chosen. Seems logical because I wonder what the question on the second referendum would be really.

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Vote Leave committed the largest breach of campaign finance law in British history. Proceeding with any form of Brexit that was won on the basis of pervasive cheating and proven illegality is inherently undemocratic. 

Why is it that world media consistently highlights this but the BBC does not?

I don't care what happens to the UK anymore but I do care about Northern Ireland and if a hard border is erected what that will mean, given that we are still a fragile post conflict society here

There’s also this weird British fantasy that their halcyon empire is out there to be reclaimed, just beyond the plains of Europe. Everyone else in the world knows those days, and that thinking are long gone, and the future of all countries, and humanity itself is in supernational blocks. EU, USA, even the Asian Union is being formed at the minute.

The past is gone and dead, and English people are like an old man, frail and weak but with a strong will and memories from their youth. And they’re finding it very difficult to accept.

They’ve tried to hobble the EU from within for 40 years, and on a lot they were a great counterbalance and I agreed with them on a lot. But the future is togetherness, and people want that. The young in Northern Ireland especially do, and they see an incredibly progressive, wealthy, secular population of their fellow islanders to the south and think, why not move forward together?

I think it's time to seriously discuss reuniting Northern Ireland and the Republic. While a united Ireland won't magically fix our problems, it would likely bring about some social change that people want to see (gay marriage and abortion being the first ones that spring to mind). It would also help break the dead lock in Stormont and create a political system which is likely to actually work and function. We haven't had a government in Northern Ireland for almost 2 years. Under the Good Friday Agreement the UK, and to a lesser extent the Irish government must step in and help facilitate talks to restore a government, but they're a bit busy* at the moment

 

* The UK couldn't give a rats ass about us and see us as a drain on society. I suspect they would be happy to annex NI if it meant they would leave with no deal and avoid the backstop and hard border. At least the Irish government are standing up for us

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12 hours ago, elijah said:

Well, if Brexit happens (still hope it is somehow stopped) and Scotland becomes independent I m sure it would be a matters of months till its in EU again. Actually if not a lot is changed as far as legislation goes, it would probably became a member immediately.  And a head of the EU commission like Nicola would be a huge win for Europe. 

As for Labour wanting to work with the Irish alt right: seems like the whole spectrum in England has gone to the dark alt right. Even the so called left. One has to wonder if we are witnessing the collapse of the political right-left divide coupled with the normalisation of the alt right. Dark days ahead. From USA to UK to Brazil to Germany to Bulgaria to Hungary/Poland/Romania.

Some moment will come when the impoverished regular Joe realises those far right populists (or leftists or whatever) are pulling their leg. Or I hope so. 

Now the trend is to offer siren songs everywhere to gather all disappointment, but all is fake. In Spain some get those songs from the independence movement, which tells lies and lies. Others from the new far right party and others from the extreme leftists. 

In every country happens with other buttons. A carrot in front of the donkey.

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I told this theory a couple of times before. In 2012 Davos forum concluded that social unrest against governments in Europe and other parts of the world was the biggest danger and new measures should be decided. Now think of what has happened in the EU since then and how all unrest is focused on minorities, hate against other folks instead of rich elites... 

It sounds very conspiracy but I feel a patron everywhere. In Spain, in the middle of the biggest crisis with 25% of unemployment, an old and forgotten independence movement arises and now a far right party grows in response?????? Nobody ever comments on the 75 billion euro that the Government gave to the banks and they refuse to give back!!!!! 

In Bulgaria, as there are no immigrants, alk eyes turn against gays and women rights. 

Every country has a story about these past 5 or 6 years.

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Just now, karbatal said:

I told this theory a couple of times before. In 2012 Davos forum concluded that social unrest against governments in Europe and other parts of the world was the biggest danger and new measures should be decided. Now think of what has happened in the EU since then and how all unrest is focused on minorities, hate against other folks instead of rich elites... 

It sounds very conspiracy but I feel a patron everywhere. In Spain, in the middle of the biggest crisis with 25% of unemployment, an old and forgotten independence movement arises and now a far right party grows in response?????? Nobody ever comments on the 75 billion euro that the Government gave to the banks and they refuse to give back!!!!! 

In Bulgaria, as there are no immigrants, alk eyes turn against gays and women rights. 

Every country has a story about these past 5 or 6 years.

I guess you are talking about catalonia, because our independence movement continues as strong as always, and it´s always been there, although it may not be on the news all the time,believe me if I tell you that PNV´s or BIldu´s ideal is an independent basque country.this time seems that a part of the catalonian people are doing the dirty work while these two political parties are playing other game: pnv the part that CIU played during the 80´s-90´s, the good guys, the reasonable ones. And Bildu has a lot of internal work to do after ETA´s disappearence. I guess there will be an internal separation ala CUP-Esquerra...meanwhile PP is disappearing in this part of the basque country, and PSOE is still there, but the only "all pro spain" political party that seems to be doing good-new things is Podemos...

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Just now, karbatal said:

I told this theory a couple of times before. In 2012 Davos forum concluded that social unrest against governments in Europe and other parts of the world was the biggest danger and new measures should be decided. Now think of what has happened in the EU since then and how all unrest is focused on minorities, hate against other folks instead of rich elites... 

 

this is classic in human behaviour: we need hour enemies, and easier to blame a person or a group of people, with faces and that we can recognize, instead of the banks, the powers that we don´t know about...

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1 hour ago, promise to try said:

I guess you are talking about catalonia, because our independence movement continues as strong as always, and it´s always been there, although it may not be on the news all the time,believe me if I tell you that PNV´s or BIldu´s ideal is an independent basque country.this time seems that a part of the catalonian people are doing the dirty work while these two political parties are playing other game: pnv the part that CIU played during the 80´s-90´s, the good guys, the reasonable ones. And Bildu has a lot of internal work to do after ETA´s disappearence. I guess there will be an internal separation ala CUP-Esquerra...meanwhile PP is disappearing in this part of the basque country, and PSOE is still there, but the only "all pro spain" political party that seems to be doing good-new things is Podemos...

It is not as strong as always because 20 years ago people was murdered because of terrorism and terrorist supporters were creating havoc every weaking burning cars and breaking windows in your cities. If suddenly those old ghosts were awake again I would be as suspicious as I am about Catalonia, were independtists were a mere residue after DECADES of understanding with Madrid. 

All very well crafted during the most difficult years in recent history in Spain.

And to understand what I mean, just try to read the news about the immigration in Spain recently. Since cunt Alberto Casado got in the People's Party here in Spain, suddenly immigration is an issue. just before, it wasn't and nobody was worried about it. Now, it is not only an issue, but there's an extremist party scaring everyone as if we were having some invasion of radicals or something. All perfectly crafted to get votes and confuse the already half-retarded population 

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1 hour ago, promise to try said:

this is classic in human behaviour: we need hour enemies, and easier to blame a person or a group of people, with faces and that we can recognize, instead of the banks, the powers that we don´t know about...

If there's immigration, the focus is on migrants

If there's nationalism, the focus is on independence.

If there's no separatism or immigration, the focus is on gays (East Europe)

meanwhile, those who got the biggest economic crisis since 1929 are still laughinig and in control. Riches are richer and poor people is arguing against each other. 

And I stop because when I get into this line of thought I get really depressed :lol:

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7 hours ago, elijah said:

That’s interesting and seems like it’s where uk is headed. But I always wondered why the uk parliament wouldn’t allow a referendum on 3 options: 1) stay in eu 2) mays agreement 3) leaving eu without any agreement. And one of the 3 options who gets the most votes is chosen. Seems logical because I wonder what the question on the second referendum would be really.

Some people are advocating a so-called 'people's vote' that would be a  referendum on the terms of whatever deal parliament agrees on. Some want the option of no Brexit at all included, others don't. Some find the idea of any second referendum at all an affront to democracy and a betrayal of the people. I don't feel as though there's been any sort of seismic shift in public opinion or demand for another vote so it probably won't happen.

4 hours ago, BrendanT1993 said:

Why is it that world media consistently highlights this but the BBC does not?

.....But the future is togetherness, and people want that. 

Because the BBC is inherently biased as the mouthpiece of the British state obviously. If Northern Ireland wants togetherness, then the ballot box needs to start reflecting that. The fact that the vile DUP is seen as the 'face' of N.Ireland should  make your blood boil.

Oh and I see the inability to differentiate between nationalism and independence in different countries has started again from our Spanish friends. Take it back to yer own thread chaps.

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

Some people are advocating a so-called 'people's vote' that would be a  referendum on the terms of whatever deal parliament agrees on. Some want the option of no Brexit at all included, others don't. Some find the idea of any second referendum at all an affront to democracy and a betrayal of the people. I don't feel as though there's been any sort of seismic shift in public opinion or demand for another vote so it probably won't happen.

Because the BBC is inherently biased as the mouthpiece of the British state obviously. If Northern Ireland wants togetherness, then the ballot box needs to start reflecting that. The fact that the vile DUP is seen as the 'face' of N.Ireland should  make your blood boil.

Oh and I see the inability to differentiate between nationalism and independence in different countries has started again from our Spanish friends. Take it back to yer own thread chaps.

You're right it should be in another thread. And when it comes to separatism I difference between Spain and other countries. I know my reality but I don't know others. 

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