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BREXIT / British Politics thread - cont

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Who did you nick that off of Brendan?

 

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On 1/4/2019 at 1:28 PM, karbatal said:

It is not as strong as always because 20 years ago people was murdered because of terrorism and terrorist supporters were creating havoc every weaking burning cars and breaking windows in your cities. If suddenly those old ghosts were awake again I would be as suspicious as I am about Catalonia, were independtists were a mere residue after DECADES of understanding with Madrid. 

All very well crafted during the most difficult years in recent history in Spain.

And to understand what I mean, just try to read the news about the immigration in Spain recently. Since cunt Alberto Casado got in the People's Party here in Spain, suddenly immigration is an issue. just before, it wasn't and nobody was worried about it. Now, it is not only an issue, but there's an extremist party scaring everyone as if we were having some invasion of radicals or something. All perfectly crafted to get votes and confuse the already half-retarded population 

Alberto Casado?? you have mixed pablo casado and albert rivera! jesus! that´s scary!

And I know that it´s not the topic, but just to finish (here) what I /we have said before: the strategy has changed in the basque country, and now the dirty work is done by the catalonians and we are the good guys, just the opposite of what happened during the 80´s-90´s.But yesterday for example there was a massive march in bilbao in favour of the prisoners being closer/out of the prisons (+80.000 people).you won´t see it anywhere in spanish news.

 

that said, this brexit thing is becoming too complicated.So if theresa´s idea is not going to happen, is the referendum happning again? because that´s what I´ve just heard on the radio.It doesn´t really make sense, maybe is that her wish?

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I think they're preparing the country for a hard Brexit? It's a scary idea because it will have a huge impact in the whole EU too. Spain exports many fruits and vegetables along with wine and oil! There's the provision of materials in automobile industry, fishing products... What a mess. 

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I think one of the big problems with Brexit is that there are so many politicians trying to go in so many different directions. May hasn't managed it very well at all but at the same time it's a totally unprecedented event, so there's no guidebook to speak of. 

Personally I'm not in favor of May's deal although I'm nowhere near as against it as a lot of Leavers are, and I'd much prefer it to a second referendum or staying in the Customs Union. Nobody really knows what's going to happen when the deal is voted down, although I expect an Article 50 extension could be on the cards.

The irony about this whole situation is that if there is a No Deal Brexit, the MPs most responsible for it will be the likes of Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry etc, who have stifled the PM at every turn in pursuit of the softest Brexit possible, or no Brexit at all.

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So the Brexit deal was voted down as expected.  What a dreadful mess and situation this has been from the day that referendum was called.  

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I still say the only logical position is to have Second Referendum on the following:

1) May deal

2) Hard Brexit

3) Stay in the EU.

Whatever options gets the majority, the Parliament is obliged to follow it.  

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1 hour ago, LSD said:

 

😂

No surprises here. It's a shit job and nobody wants it. Probably best too. If a general election had been called she could still have won that and they'd be in for another five years! 

It's an absolute clusterfuck at the moment.

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Where are all our members from the UK ! 

Would love to read your views on all this. Always love to hear the views of people that it is impacting. 

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Well we could always have a referendum on whether the public want another EU referendum

If the majority say no then there's no second EU referendum and vice versa 

Given that I correctly believed May would survive the no confidence vote of her leading her own party, that her deal would be struck down and that this motion of no confidence in government would be put in the gutter. I also believe that the majority would say no to a second referendum.  There's a reason why the bookies were offering ridiculously long odds of the confidence vote against the government succeeding.

The majority of us just want this sorted and don't really feel like wanting to vote in another election/referendum.

How we fix this we don't know and though imo this would be sorted if Brexit was cancelled and we remained i Europe, as trade would continue flowing and no concerns over that.

Simply cancelling Brexit without another referendum invalidating the democracy of the first one eve though the actual referendum was advisory and not legally binding, would piss off a lot of people and potentially lead to a lot of political instability,

I don't think a revolution would occur exactly but there would be a big political row and it ain't gonna be pretty 

So the drama continues with all the parties having shitty leaders and the world keeps spinning for now.

On an unrelated note could the Digital Economy Act be dissolved. 

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5 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Where are all our members from the UK ! 

Would love to read your views on all this. Always love to hear the views of people that it is impacting. 

I guess they're hypersaturated about this issue. 

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On 1/16/2019 at 4:24 AM, elijah said:

I still say the only logical position is to have Second Referendum on the following:

1) May deal

2) Hard Brexit

3) Stay in the EU.

Whatever options gets the majority, the Parliament is obliged to follow it.  

Agreed completely. I've heard a lot of "but democracy! The people have spoken", but is it really democratic if no one knew what they were actually voting for in the first?

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5 minutes ago, MadFan said:

Agreed completely. I've heard a lot of "but democracy! The people have spoken", but is it really democratic if no one knew what they were actually voting for in the first?

Plus you have this thin majority for Brexit, but the Brexiteers differ a lot on what they expect to be the future relationship with EU.

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Are you guys really sure that it would be a good idea that the UK stays in the EU? We need in Europe more integration and less skepticism. I think the UK has reached a point of no return. I hope both parts get a good agreement and life moves on. 

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37 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Are you guys really sure that it would be a good idea that the UK stays in the EU? We need in Europe more integration and less skepticism. I think the UK has reached a point of no return. I hope both parts get a good agreement and life moves on. 

To be fair half of Europe would be out if believing in more integration was the primary criterium. :lmao: With that said, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted strongly in favour of remain, and it's a shame they're being brought down with this ship.

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1 hour ago, MadFan said:

To be fair half of Europe would be out if believing in more integration was the primary criterium. :lmao: With that said, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted strongly in favour of remain, and it's a shame they're being brought down with this ship.

Without more integration, EU would never be the force Europeans expect it to be. The nationalistic and right wing crazies RULING should result in trowing the state out of the EU. I know its a radical idea, but. At least in frizzing the membership till the people are back to its senses. Alt right shouldn't be normalised, at least not in EU.

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I don't get the whole "democracy" and "people have spoken" argument. What do they think elections are? Every four years people change their minds and vote a new government or parliament. It happens all the time. And what I will never understand is that for such a radical move as the Brexit a simple majority is sufficient. Most countries have huge hurdles when it comes to really important legal matters like changing the constitution or things that affect the majority of the citizens of a country. For those things usually a two third majority is needed and to make it even harder they have a quorum set. Without these hurdles a minority is very well able to change things in a way that they might be negative for certain parts of society or society in general. Exibit A) Brexit. 

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Well worth reading this analysis.

My own view is that we (UK, NI) have a miserable lack of self awareness about our place in Europe and in the World.

Is it all that water? Independence is mostly laudable, but a 'hard unyielding' independence is not laudable as increasingly we are interconnected.

By voting for a Brexit, which many didn't understand, we are swimming against the tide of history making.

Those nations who were involved in two world wars and understood the needless slaughter from them, created what is now the EU, and along with the UN, various Human Rights protections. Tamper with these structures at your peril.

You might just find yourself very alone, and with the evil of growing hostile regimes around us, we might find that what we have, is further lost.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/18/europe-brexit-britain-state-politics-fit-for-purpose?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR1LLC4vKtrm4ASMGjRZ2KILw8exrPTniWw43XGrtqpsE0W1Us-eAPqOJGE

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I´m starting to feel sad about May...I probably don´t have reasons for it, but it seems everything she tries backfires.wasn´t she against brexit in the beginning?

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37 minutes ago, promise to try said:

I´m starting to feel sad about May...I probably don´t have reasons for it, but it seems everything she tries backfires.wasn´t she against brexit in the beginning?

She was against Brexit

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2 hours ago, promise to try said:

I´m starting to feel sad about May...I probably don´t have reasons for it, but it seems everything she tries backfires.wasn´t she against brexit in the beginning?

She can always tell the truth instead of crafting magical solutions. Truth is that you cannot separate freedoms in the EU: movement, goods and capital. And if you accesss to the common market you have to pay lots of money to the EU and answer to EU institutions, as Norway, Iceland e Liechtenstein do. 

The rest is a mix of delusion and grandeur ideas that the UK has to have especial treatment God knows why. 

TELL YOUR PEOPLE THE TRUTH! 

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9 hours ago, promise to try said:

I´m starting to feel sad about May...I probably don´t have reasons for it, but it seems everything she tries backfires.wasn´t she against brexit in the beginning?

Don't waste your sympathy on her Promise to Try.  Her policies and lack of empathy for people is more than obvious. 

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11 hours ago, karbatal said:

TELL YOUR PEOPLE THE TRUTH! 

she should.

and of course, my sympathy for her is less because of her ideas-acts and more because the rest of the politicians are also acting as spoiled children

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I venture to say that many here and in the UK don't understand Northern Ireland.

Our politicians in constant competitions to maintain their national identities, which create a hostile climate for many of us who take the trouble to understand our differences and to work to achieve a common vision, or even a interim vision for this place, which is potentially in a state of transition.

Apparently May's latest idea is to unilaterally "amend" the Good Friday/Belfast agreement to get around the border issue.

Seemingly she doesn't grasp the actual meaning of the term "agreement" It's a legally binding international treaty lodged with the UN that took 4 years to negotiate and was ratified by the electorate in Ireland north and south, ironically through a referendum. 

Is May telling us this referendum is advisory too? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8738131.html

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Stop it with the exaggeration about brexit 

🇬🇧 will be better off in the long run and the disruptions will be minimal

i love Europe and its utopia but the U.K. does not belong, and the U.K. certainly does not need any lessons about democracy and human rights from Brussels. The U.K. is the mother of modern democracy and was always there when all these countries were having their nationalist quarrels. 

No country in the world is more multicultural than the U.K. 

europe is rife with far right parties. Extremism never made a mark in the U.K. unlike mainland europe

brexit is about independence, being able to do your own trade deal, it is about opening oneself to the world

meanwhile all the European countries have a far right party that gets a lot of votes, even Spain where the PP incorporated francoists 

not everything is black and white

and I despise the antisemitism from so many people who are left wing

 

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12 hours ago, windsor67 said:

Stop it with the exaggeration about brexit 

🇬🇧 will be better off in the long run and the disruptions will be minimal

i love Europe and its utopia but the U.K. does not belong, and the U.K. certainly does not need any lessons about democracy and human rights from Brussels. The U.K. is the mother of modern democracy and was always there when all these countries were having their nationalist quarrels. 

No country in the world is more multicultural than the U.K. 

europe is rife with far right parties. Extremism never made a mark in the U.K. unlike mainland europe

brexit is about independence, being able to do your own trade deal, it is about opening oneself to the world

meanwhile all the European countries have a far right party that gets a lot of votes, even Spain where the PP incorporated francoists 

not everything is black and white

and I despise the antisemitism from so many people who are left wing

 

Good luck....

... and don't fuck it up.

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13 hours ago, windsor67 said:

Stop it with the exaggeration about brexit 

🇬🇧 will be better off in the long run and the disruptions will be minimal

i love Europe and its utopia but the U.K. does not belong, and the U.K. certainly does not need any lessons about democracy and human rights from Brussels. The U.K. is the mother of modern democracy and was always there when all these countries were having their nationalist quarrels. 

No country in the world is more multicultural than the U.K

europe is rife with far right parties. Extremism never made a mark in the U.K. unlike mainland europe

brexit is about independence, being able to do your own trade deal, it is about opening oneself to the world

meanwhile all the European countries have a far right party that gets a lot of votes, even Spain where the PP incorporated francoists 

not everything is black and white

and I despise the antisemitism from so many people who are left wing

 

TRUE, NOT EvERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE.Oops, sorry, I wasn´t shouting!

No country is more multicultural than the UK: well, I agree that the UK is multicultural, but you should tell that to the ones that voted in favour of the brexit, because I think the multiculturality is not one of things that they love in their country.

is about being able to do your own trade deal: as much I don´t like EU´s last ideas economically,  I must say that some of their laws have stopped the multinationals corporations to run the countries freely. I ´m afraid this will stop sooner than later, but, with an independent UK, I hope you have shares in the corporations, because they are going to fuck you hard.

extremism has never made in the UK: I totally disagree, it has made it with such a violence, that even left winged people don´t realise that a lot of times they sound super right winged to us

So many egos hurt: don´t expect europe to welcome british ones they are outside the union. the union can´t allow more countries leaving them, so they are going to, again fuck you hard.In spain, well, say goodbye to our sun and to the alcoholic olimpic games, and...(jezz, is that the only thing spain gives to the world?) we will welcome scottish and irish people!

 

and, the biggest problem is not even that, is that the population in england is divided. as far as I know, is not that 80% of the people want the brexit to happen, so there is a huge internal problem.

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the only positive thing for us, the ones that remain the union, will be that, IMO, Brussels will have to show us that it´s better to be in than out, so they will start making laws that are going to be more human ...(I wish!) they will have to work hard to make countries see that is worth it to keep the union

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12 hours ago, windsor67 said:

Stop it with the exaggeration about brexit 

🇬🇧 will be better off in the long run and the disruptions will be minimal

i love Europe and its utopia but the U.K. does not belong, and the U.K. certainly does not need any lessons about democracy and human rights from Brussels. The U.K. is the mother of modern democracy and was always there when all these countries were having their nationalist quarrels. 

No country in the world is more multicultural than the U.K. 

europe is rife with far right parties. Extremism never made a mark in the U.K. unlike mainland europe

brexit is about independence, being able to do your own trade deal, it is about opening oneself to the world

meanwhile all the European countries have a far right party that gets a lot of votes, even Spain where the PP incorporated francoists 

not everything is black and white

and I despise the antisemitism from so many people who are left wing

 

Fasten your seatbelt, it's gonna be a bumpy ride. 

But we should stay civilized. Therefore Europe would like to thank you for all the banks, insurances and companies that move their headquarters to Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt because they are no longer able to do business with the EU from the City of London. We would like to thank you for the heavily needed workforce in healthcare and care for the elders by kicking all those Wonderful Polish and Baltic workers out. We would like to thank you for strenghtening European universities and research institutes by sending top people, because staff has no longer access to European research funds at British research hubs. And the list goes on. So much to be thankful for. Be proud of yourselves, you did it all on your own. Of couse, when the shit hits the fan, there will be mass amnesia and all of the UK will claim it's all the evil EUs fault. But that's fine. We are used to this fairytale. 

By the way, Scotland and Northern Ireland are very welcome in the EU, if they want to join. Wales? Well, I guess they really need to come crawling. They were especially ungrateful considering the EU probably did more for Wales than the British government ever has. 

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